Ash

[-CdG-Zilchy]

44 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

How do you check profiles? Do you mean typing a players name here in game lets you see their stats? 😯

hi mate so all you do is the following line in any ingame chat window without the " around it.

"/profile -CdG-Zilchy"

[-CdG-Zilchy]

21 minutes ago, S1mplyFresh said:

???

Ash is God-Tier. I don't think you know how to build or play him.

I think you're just not very good at the game.

https://imgbb.com/7pCr1tM -- this is average for me.

Amen.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Ash is still great. One of the rare frames in the game where you can pretty much have a viable build for all of his abilities.

Armor Stripping Shurikens, one-hit-kill fatal teleports, stealth 4x multiplier killing, heck even bladestorm. It's a shame they nerfed marked for death, as it was was essentially an instant bladestorm that was less clunky to use, but imho bladestorm is fine although a little clunky to target with.

Yes he's kinda lacking in crowd control, but you have good aoe Primaries and Secondaries to fix this anyway , so it's not such a big deal.

And yes there's tons of broken "clear a whole room" frames that work better in some situations, but hey, some people actually want to play the game and use their frame's toolkit, and ASH is a pretty solid package overall (a pretty tanky stealth frame that can go invis, strip armor , oneshot high level enemies with teleport and last very long in endurance runs is nothing to scoff at). Imho Loki is the one that deserves some love, as his decoy is pretty crappy, his switch teleport is clunky and borderline useless, his irradiating disarm kinda makes high level enemies more dangerous leaving him with only a slightly longer invis than ash (but that cost more energy to cast and without the AOE smoke screen cc).

[(XBOX)InductiveBag46]

4 hours ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

Me with Ash (default): I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROOOOOACHING

PROVOOOOOOOKING

BLACK CLOUDS IN ISOLATIOOOOOOOON

I AM RECLAIMER OF MY NAAAAAAAAAAAAME

BORN IN FLAMES

I HAVE BEEN BLESSED

MY FAMILY CREST IS A DEMON OF DEAAAAAATH

You're my spirit animal 🙏

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@Speerel

Ash has issues most ppl don`t know about.

The reason being because;

• People use two of his augment 24/7 to the point where they completely ignore the issues of the abilities and act like they are ok.
• The way people use him and talk about him ("oh he can use seeking shuriken to strip armour and can kill lvl 100+ with bs) they can`t see his issues in a general sense.

Here are his issues

Spoiler

Shuriken

·       Shuriken is only good with its augment, an augment is meant to be used as an option and not to make the ability better, which means on its own it`s not worth using.

·       Because of the way bladestorm works, it makes it redundant due to bs doing more damage and costing less energy.

·       If there are 3 enemies in front of you and you want to kill the one in the right, sometimes it will target the other two enemies instead of the one you want even if you`re aiming at it.

·       The only way it will be affective is if you spam the ability however you will lose out on energy doing so plus you can`t control what enemy you want it to hit and (in other ppl`s eyes) why do that when you can use bs? There is no distinction between the two.

 

Smoke Screen

·       The duration of it is low and even though I don`t have any issue with it I understand why other ppl would.

 

Teleport

·       When teleporting to enemies it`s not consistent in opening them up to finishers.

·       People use it`s augment as a bandade coz the bug which means the ability on its own is bad.

·       On consoles it`s changed to where the finisher prompt is separate from the melee button which makes it which kind of brakes the flow of it.

·       If a enemy is under a stun, it can`t interrupt it to be able to open them up to a finisher.

 

Bladestorm… so many issues

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

 

 

Ash needs a revisit and it doesn't matter what ppl say coz stats and ppls actions proves otherwise.

Proof of ppl`s actions

 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

11 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You still seem stuck on the idea that "more easy = better for everyone" which is false. It's better for YOU. It's less fun for others, how is that a hard concept to grasp for you?

As much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with CdG Zilchy and add that Warframe does NOT need to dumb down abilities to make killing enemies completely effortless.  We do NOT need more Warframes like Saryn to make the game stupid easy and effortless.  I think every Warframe that can wipe the board with just of few button clicks has corrupted the game play mechanics by making most other frames obsolete or at a minimum, less desirable.   The solution to your issue is quite simple, if his tool set isn't working for you, DON'T USE ASH. 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

5 hours ago, S1mplyFresh said:

Lol, one of the worst takes in these forums I have ever read.

You don't know how to build or play him. Simple as that. Or you're just not good at the game.

Ah yes, and feel free to explain why Ash is perfect and in no need of changes then? Or do you have a better take for why he needs help? 

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just ‘cause you don’t see Ash being popular amongst your squad lobbies doesn’t make him a bad frame. He can certainly need tweaks here and there, but suggesting to bring back his AFK 4 doesn’t really solve anything either, sure he’d arise in popularity again like he used to be, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s press & forget ability which DE said they did not like, so I highly doubt it’d be brought back.

[Tesseract7777]

On 2021-07-08 at 5:19 PM, Speerel said:

I don't see him among the players at all

I have certainly heard that he is good on a steel track.

But nobody takes him to regular lobbies because there is a much better alternative to DD (Sarin Mesa Gauss, etc.)

But he's a beautiful prime version

I would like to bring back his lazy 4th ability so that he becomes more popular.

Ash is fine since the last round of Bladestorm changes, no more motion sickness, less energy to spend, and enemies are fully marked way faster with one quick swipe of the mouse. And with the Helminth system and either Savage Silence or Radiant Finish, with almost no power strength he can one shot almost all SP enemies at basic alert level. And with combo multiplier and power strength he can scale as long as he needs. Arcane Ultimatum and Arcane Trick are just icing on the cake, and he can easily stack enough armor to even use rage for early SP if you want, like as in, if you aren't doing super long endurance. 

Yes, his invis is a little outdated, but it still is strong enough for him to cheese his way to reposition himself, and do spy/rescue/etc. with ease of cheese. 

Shuriken could use an update to be multi-target, but apart from that it is fine, and at least it has use for armor stripping certain bosses with the augment. 

Teleport is kind of pointless, but he hardly needs it, his it can do anything it needs to do and complete any mission type in the game with ease, solo, and with the Helminth I can keep some decent cc up for the whole team with my Savage Silence aura of death. 

Ash doesn't need much attention. Sure, like a lot of older frames mains like me wouldn't say no to a revisit, but in terms of triage, he isn't anywhere near the ones who need the most attention imo. 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Imho Loki is the one that deserves some love, as his decoy is pretty crappy, his switch teleport is clunky and borderline useless, his irradiating disarm kinda makes high level enemies more dangerous leaving him with only a slightly longer invis than ash (but that cost more energy to cast and without the AOE smoke screen cc).

Yea I agree loki needs help. Sadly his kit is just meh, especially when the spy master that is Ivara exists. Honestly however Im not sure what they could do for loki to both fit his stealthy trickster frame that wouldnt encroach on either Mirage’s or Ivara’s territory too much

[S1mplyFresh]

4 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Ah yes, and feel free to explain why Ash is perfect and in no need of changes then? Or do you have a better take for why he needs help? 

Is this good enough for you? https://imgbb.com/7pCr1tM

I did this last night. Pretty average for me. Solo Steel Path. Titan on Saturn. Survival.

People always blame the game, but never themselves.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

As much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with CdG Zilchy and add that Warframe does NOT need to dumb down abilities to make killing enemies completely effortless.  We do NOT need more Warframes like Saryn to make the game stupid easy and effortless.  I think every Warframe that can wipe the board with just of few button clicks has corrupted the game play mechanics by making most other frames obsolete or at a minimum, less desirable.   The solution to your issue is quite simple, if his tool set isn't working for you, DON'T USE ASH. 

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

That had to hurt 😛 

On a serious note however, yes variety is the spice of life. 

P.S. you didn't even use a gif, I'm disappointed... 😭

[DroopingPuppy]

Well, shuriken is good... if you ignore the fact that it only targets some few enemies. But it is not AoS, but the game that has only 1 to 4 players and you need to against the horde of enemy. Also it needs augment mods to be functional. Yes it is good at dispatch the hard target, but it is not the only way to dispatch it either.

Personally I like the smoke of Ash and I miss the kind Ash players that equip the augment mod only for their teammates, when Ash was still on the game. You know, that augment mod does nothing to Ash himself so having Smoke Shadow means the Ash player want to help the teammates while sacrifice one of the mod slot that may improve Ash himself I miss it, but I can't see them for around three to four years, for we can't see Ash on the public missions for years. And... Wukong has the similar augment mod, that is an insult for Ash to me.

And... as I said all the times, Bladestorm is unusable. You need to mark the target in order to fire it but for what cost? You don't need to obliterate all the enemy around you but at least it must be usable.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

54 minutes ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Well, shuriken is good... if you ignore the fact that it only targets some few enemies. But it is not AoS, but the game that has only 1 to 4 players and you need to against the horde of enemy. Also it needs augment mods to be functional. Yes it is good at dispatch the hard target, but it is not the only way to dispatch it either.

Personally I like the smoke of Ash and I miss the kind Ash players that equip the augment mod only for their teammates, when Ash was still on the game. You know, that augment mod does nothing to Ash himself so having Smoke Shadow means the Ash player want to help the teammates while sacrifice one of the mod slot that may improve Ash himself I miss it, but I can't see them for around three to four years, for we can't see Ash on the public missions for years. And... Wukong has the similar augment mod, that is an insult for Ash to me.

And... as I said all the times, Bladestorm is unusable. You need to mark the target in order to fire it but for what cost? You don't need to obliterate all the enemy around you but at least it must be usable.

It's become increasingly apparent in this thread that you're just not very good at the game, it's useable for others and others above me have posted about enjoying using Ash, perhaps you just need to improve your skill level. With only 1600 hours played if you have actually been around for 4 years you must play extremely casually which would explain why you're unable to effectively use such abilities. So instead of ruining Ash for those who ACTUALLY play him, perhaps you should just stick to other frames that suit your playstyle instead.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

4 hours ago, S1mplyFresh said:

Is this good enough for you? https://imgbb.com/7pCr1tM

I did this last night. Pretty average for me. Solo Steel Path. Titan on Saturn. Survival.

People always blame the game, but never themselves.

Bravo, that proves nothing. 

[S1mplyFresh]

10 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Bravo, that proves nothing. 

It proves that Ash is God-Tier? And that he is in a very good place. And anyone who says otherwise does not know how to play or build him.

It also proves that the changes to Melee are negligible for good players.

And if this proves nothing then... what is even the point of this thread and forum?

[Tesseract7777]

3 hours ago, S1mplyFresh said:

It proves that Ash is God-Tier? And that he is in a very good place. And anyone who says otherwise does not know how to play or build him.

It also proves that the changes to Melee are negligible for good players.

And if this proves nothing then... what is even the point of this thread and forum?

Exactly.

As an Ash main, sure there are a handful of things that I would LOVE to see revisited.

But does he actually need any changes to solo or carry a group in any mission type in the game up to and including endurance? 

No. He's god tier already. Most frames could use some improvements, but Ash will probably not be touched up for a long time because he is near the bottom of the priority pool for revisiting. He can do just fine. He doesn't really NEED anything, he just has some redundant abilities that are mostly niche, or not that useful, like Teleport or Shuriken without the augment. 

[Erridon]

The only thing Ash has going for him is stealth. Stealth is op and that's the only reason he's getting the "he's fine" treatment. Shuriken requires an augment to be relevant. Teleport is basically useless. Even if you have the augment for it you have a high chance to glitch and not properly hit the enemy, and his ult is a clunky mess where you spend tons of energy to flail about like you're having a seizure hoping to target anything/everything you can. 

How people can say they're content with that mess is beyond me. He could definitely use some improvements. I think his ult needs to be reworked entirely. Should summon smoke clones that follow you throughout the battlefield and use fatal teleport with some built in cooldown. They could work like Loki's decoy while also providing a great offensive boost at the same time.

All of you being so content with lackluster content perpetuate the issue.

[Tesseract7777]

13 minutes ago, Erridon said:

The only thing Ash has going for him is stealth. Stealth is op and that's the only reason he's getting the "he's fine" treatment. Shuriken requires an augment to be relevant. Teleport is basically useless. Even if you have the augment for it you have a high chance to glitch and not properly hit the enemy, and his ult is a clunky mess where you spend tons of energy to flail about like you're having a seizure hoping to target anything/everything you can. 

How people can say they're content with that mess is beyond me. He could definitely use some improvements. I think his ult needs to be reworked entirely. Should summon smoke clones that follow you throughout the battlefield and use fatal teleport with some built in cooldown. They could work like Loki's decoy while also providing a great offensive boost at the same time.

All of you being so content with lackluster content perpetuate the issue.

No offense, but do you even Ash? 

His Bladestorm needs zero changes, you don't like it use another ability. It doesn't need an "offensive boost", it is one of the most powerful kps abilities in the game, especially with Helminth allowing you to get sick damage numbers without even bothering with much power strength investment. 

Ash is so good, that even though Teleport is useless and Shuriken isn't useful without the augment, he is still god tier. 

It is about triage. I'd love to see a revisit, but he is way down on the priority list, as he can handle anything just fine already, even if some of his kit is largely redundant. 

[fo3nixz]

blade storm + silence & savage silence + epitath with viral and primed fulmination.. if i cant kill anyhting with that , ill use my semi heavy attack venka prime and it will be dead..

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, fo3nixz said:

blade storm + silence & savage silence + epitath with viral and primed fulmination.. if i cant kill anyhting with that , ill use my semi heavy attack venka prime and it will be dead..

For real. Blade Storm + Savage Silence is ridiculously powerful, and the Silence aura does A LOT more than you might think at first, not originally being much of a Banshee player myself. 

I love Silence as an ability, the fact it empowers BS is just even more of a bonus. It allows Ash to be a slightly less selfish frame, and have a walking cc aura to help the team that shuts down a lot of annoying enemy abilities entirely. In PUG's where I am trying to carry a random team, it is a godsend. 

[fo3nixz]

and to get more ridiculous with ash and if u use heavy attacks. try the empowered blades aura

[S1mplyFresh]

1 hour ago, Erridon said:

The only thing Ash has going for him is stealth. Stealth is op and that's the only reason he's getting the "he's fine" treatment. Shuriken requires an augment to be relevant. Teleport is basically useless. Even if you have the augment for it you have a high chance to glitch and not properly hit the enemy, and his ult is a clunky mess where you spend tons of energy to flail about like you're having a seizure hoping to target anything/everything you can. 

How people can say they're content with that mess is beyond me. He could definitely use some improvements. I think his ult needs to be reworked entirely. Should summon smoke clones that follow you throughout the battlefield and use fatal teleport with some built in cooldown. They could work like Loki's decoy while also providing a great offensive boost at the same time.

All of you being so content with lackluster content perpetuate the issue.

I'm reaching Lv. 1000+ Steel Path Grineer with Ash, and I'm not using Smoke Screen. I didn't even mod for Duration at all.

But hey, if you guys want to pressure DE to rework Ash, so be it. That will only make him go above God-Tier, if that's even possible. And I'll dominate the game even harder.

There's a reason why Skill Ceiling is a real thing, and Ash has very high potential. If he's not working for you, it means you're doing something wrong. Stop blaming the game.

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2021-07-10 at 3:49 PM, -CdG-Zilchy said:

It's become increasingly apparent in this thread that you're just not very good at the game, it's useable for others and others above me have posted about enjoying using Ash, perhaps you just need to improve your skill level. With only 1600 hours played if you have actually been around for 4 years you must play extremely casually which would explain why you're unable to effectively use such abilities. So instead of ruining Ash for those who ACTUALLY play him, perhaps you should just stick to other frames that suit your playstyle instead.

Then, seriously, without a point of sarcasm, can I ask a question? What makes Ash viable over the other warframe and which situation do you need him that the other warframes are struggle to overcome? For now I sense no merit to invest for him at all for what he seems can would be handled by the other frames, so can you enlighten me?

Again, at least the post has not even a single point of sacrasm. I just want to have a question.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Then, seriously, without a point of sarcasm, can I ask a question? What makes Ash viable over the other warframe and which situation do you need him that the other warframes are struggle to overcome? For now I sense no merit to invest for him at all for what he seems can would be handled by the other frames, so can you enlighten me?

Again, at least the post has not even a single point of sacrasm. I just want to have a question.

No problem, I already gave you the example but I'll give it again, Endless Disruption. 
But you also need to get past the concept of a warframe not possibly being fun or good to use because it's not the top tier frame for a particular mission. You need to get off that train of thought, that's just a META point of view which shuns all other options to possible enjoy the game with. That kind of close minded-ness leads to ignoring 95% of a game's available gear "because this does it better". Who cares if it does it better? I have 6000 hours on Steam for this game, 3500 in missions. The game is so easy you can use anything and be successful so why not experiment and enjoy all the game has to offer instead of 20 things out of over 500?