Jump to content

About the new finale showdowns for Liches / Sisters


Recommended Posts

I love the new streamlined murmur farming and the fact now we have new items like Requiem Ultimatum and Oull to make the grind lighter, but making the finale on Railjack didn't quite made sense to me. Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love playing railjack, and its not about it being a railjack mission. But i really don't get the point of adding an extra step of going into another fight, since prior to the update we can just finish off the Lich right away after we made the correct Requiem Sequence on that mission where they appeared, but now after managing to pull off the correct sequence on the Lich / Sister, you're made to fight them once again in order to finally convert or vanquish them. I remember DE saying something along the lines of "We want to make the finale into something you can prepare for" somewhere, but i still don't get the intention here.

Help? Am i missing something?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

What about dieing? I died 5 times in the final mission. That NEVER happens. I had full health and shields and next moment: poof! I was dead. My team mates also died several times. I don't did anything harsh or stupid. This build can normally survive Steel Path, no problem.

Edited by Aazhyd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Liches were intended to have a finale on rj, it's what the showed in Tennocon 2 years ago. It just took them a long while to get them in the game and working to the point where they could implement it.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Aazhyd said:

What about dieing? I died 5 times in the final mission. That NEVER happens. I had full health and shields and next moment: poof! I was dead. My team mates also died several times. I don't did anything harsh or stupid. This build can normally survive Steel Path, no problem.

I've heard they can spawn clones of a player, and these clones do not have nerfed damage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
vor 46 Minuten schrieb Aazhyd:

What about dieing? I died 5 times in the final mission. That NEVER happens. I had full health and shields and next moment: poof! I was dead. My team mates also died several times. I don't did anything harsh or stupid. This build can normally survive Steel Path, no problem.

Use the death log analysis tool next time it happens, but I suspect the answer will be that you’re killing each other because of radiation status.

Edited by Krankbert
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

46 minutes ago, Aazhyd said:

What about dieing? I died 5 times in the final mission. That NEVER happens. I had full health and shields and next moment: poof! I was dead. My team mates also died several times. I don't did anything harsh or stupid. This build can normally survive Steel Path, no problem.

 

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I've heard they can spawn clones of a player, and these clones do not have nerfed damage

Haha yeah, try killing a Lich Sister that's got 'cold' as the bonus, between teleporting between floors on a ship :( and regaining her shield, most of the other times she was hiding in her Hydroid pool on the floor and coming back out at maxed stats again.

Look out if she teleports to a different floor on the ship into her pool of water on the floor then no waypoint marker is shown until she decides to come up for air. :facepalm:

p.s This was a normal stab session I was using all her weaknesses against her, wasn't the final Proxima fight, which I'm dreading seeing she has ranked up to 4.

Think I'll go get a Kuva Lich for the next one and see how they are now after the rework.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Butterfly85 said:

Liches were intended to have a finale on rj, it's what the showed in Tennocon 2 years ago. It just took them a long while to get them in the game and working to the point where they could implement it.

That i'm aware of, but since they let the Lich content out for quite the while now before finally giving them their original, planned showdown, i must say it only leaves an impression of the showdown being an additional step with no actual purpose rather than extending the process you've to go before being able to vanquish your Lich. And this is kinda...weird considering that they've just streamlined the murmurs to fasten the whole Lich vanquishing thing.

If only they've dropped the lich update with the showdown since the very start...i'd say it'll feel more integrated and not kinda out of place.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jee... it's an extra step because that's what the devs wanted to make, let it go people.

The fact that we could kill the lich right away doesn't mean anything, just do what the game tells you to do.

Because otherwise, you could argue that all the thrall farming is also an extra step that we don't need, why not just give us the weapon right after we first stab the larvling ?

Or hell, just give us every piece of gear in the game without having to do anything ! Why not ? It's all just extra steps after all...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Think I'll go get a Kuva Lich for the next one and see how they are now after the rework.

They're ridiculously tanky for some reason, but at least they don't have the enormous piles of bullS#&$ which everything Corpus gets saddled with as of late. They're "just" gigantic bullet sponges.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Jee... it's an extra step because that's what the devs wanted to make, let it go people.

The fact that we could kill the lich right away doesn't mean anything, just do what the game tells you to do.

Because otherwise, you could argue that all the thrall farming is also an extra step that we don't need, why not just give us the weapon right after we first stab the larvling ?

Or hell, just give us every piece of gear in the game without having to do anything ! Why not ? It's all just extra steps after all...

 I just really want to know what was the intention behind the addition of the extra step and so far i've failed to grasp it by myself, so i'm trying to ask others here who might be aware of the intention. And again the showdown being added out of nowhere just because "It was originally what was shown in Tennocon" doesn't seem to be the whole thing, since they also said these themselves :
 

"In doing this, we’ve also eliminated the randomness of that final showdown. These are guaranteed fights that you can gear up before you go in! Bring your best gear for the job."

The "showdown" here was to defeat and get the choice of Converting and Vanquishing. If in order to reach that "guaranteed" showdown you still have to pull off the correct sequence on a, well, randomly appearing Lich / Sister unless you have a Requiem Ultimatum at hand, things don't really change doesn't it? The showdown is basically only moved into something locked behind a random aspect you absolutely have to go through, in the end the randomness is still there. Again, give me a heads up if i missed anything.

35 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Because otherwise, you could argue that all the thrall farming is also an extra step that we don't need, why not just give us the weapon right after we first stab the larvling ?

Or hell, just give us every piece of gear in the game without having to do anything ! Why not ? It's all just extra steps after all...

No i wouldn't argue that the thrall farming is a process that serves no purpose, nor should i get the weapon right away after stabbing the poor larvling because that's just the whole system in the first place? Give us every piece of gear in the game for nothing? Absolute nonsense. It's just all extra steps? No they aren't.

There's a lot of unjustified rants on a lot of aspects of Warframe in the General Discussion, and maybe you're very irritated right now on how people rant on the smallest thing, but get this. I DID NOT rant. All i did was ask, and i replied with what i felt about the situation based on the information i was given. I made this whole thread, just to ask if maybe someone knows what was the point of adding that railjack showdown that i might've missed. I'm personally fine with that showdown being there, because personally there's more excuse to ride my railjack now.

Why so triggered?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, they PUNISH you in the final showdown if you take guessing on the requiem sequence and get the Lich/Sister into rank 5. By having the Lich/Sister AND THEIR ARMY stay at the last rank where you have a correct requiem using on them...

Although... it didn't make much of a difference for me. For some low-level or unprepared players, they can die easily by those bodyguards even before they can fighting the Lich/Sister.

PS. Normally, I would have a showdown on rank 4. I have a fight on ranks 3 and 5 once each and didn't notice the difference other than "My guns deal less damage" or "I can kill them a little bit faster... Those Bodyguards give me more headache than the Sister herself...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Use the death log analysis tool next time it happens, but I suspect the answer will be that you’re killing each other because of radiation status.

Yeh, I think it must be radiation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SargionMagara said:

Help? Am i missing something?

the main advantage to the new system is that a final encounter is guaranteed. yes, you still have to wait for them to appear to get the requiems right, and then one more time once you know the order, but it used to be a case of kill thralls and *eventually* they would appear. as for the encounters themselves, they aren't that bad unless your Lich is suing an especially powerful weapon like Grattler or you let their thralls multiply too much.

now that the Archgun bug has been fixed you can just mod that for your Lich's weakness and shred their health that way: their thralls don't help, but they can only spawn so many and can only spawn another after one has been killed, so if you let them make a bunch and then use an AoE weapon you can down the thralls and damage the Lich at the same time (just remember not to stab the downed thralls): weapons like Mausolon or Bubonico really help out here. 

I quite like the encounters now that they work properly, and in public confrontations you can see what other people got as their Liches, which is kinda neat IMO.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked it. It felt difficult and climactic in a fun way. The idea is that you're supposed to be fighting an endgame boss, so it makes sense that it would be eidolon difficulty. 

Besides the specters, they could also spawn some boss like Vor of Kayla to do a bit of a boss rush before you take on the lich proper. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, SargionMagara said:

I love the new streamlined murmur farming and the fact now we have new items like Requiem Ultimatum and Oull to make the grind lighter, but making the finale on Railjack didn't quite made sense to me. Don't get me wrong, i absolutely love playing railjack, and its not about it being a railjack mission. But i really don't get the point of adding an extra step of going into another fight, since prior to the update we can just finish off the Lich right away after we made the correct Requiem Sequence on that mission where they appeared, but now after managing to pull off the correct sequence on the Lich / Sister, you're made to fight them once again in order to finally convert or vanquish them. I remember DE saying something along the lines of "We want to make the finale into something you can prepare for" somewhere, but i still don't get the intention here.

Help? Am i missing something?

Oh, you thought DE was actually going to reduce the length of the road to get to your dream weapon ?

Dream on rookie. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we should fight liches or sisters only in their node and appearing in missions more sporadically like trolling/teasing the player rather than fighting us there. You farm murmurs, and just engage with the lich on your own terms when you want. You want to test your luck? Go to the fight node. You want to olay safe? Go only after knowing every requiem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

4 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

Haha yeah, try killing a Lich Sister that's got 'cold' as the bonus, between teleporting between floors on a ship :( and regaining her shield, most of the other times she was hiding in her Hydroid pool on the floor and coming back out at maxed stats again.

Look out if she teleports to a different floor on the ship into her pool of water on the floor then no waypoint marker is shown until she decides to come up for air. :facepalm:

p.s This was a normal stab session I was using all her weaknesses against her, wasn't the final Proxima fight, which I'm dreading seeing she has ranked up to 4.

Think I'll go get a Kuva Lich for the next one and see how they are now after the rework.

 

3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

They're ridiculously tanky for some reason, but at least they don't have the enormous piles of bullS#&$ which everything Corpus gets saddled with as of late. They're "just" gigantic bullet sponges.

Thanks good to know, I figured they'd be like the Wolf of Saturn Six when he first came out tanky but without all the BS of teleporting on a ship between floors as one thing that is insane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Oh, you thought DE was actually going to reduce the length of the road to get to your dream weapon ?

Dream on rookie. 

Well with the all the new items and the streamlined murmur farms, i can say the road is definitely shorter now, but yeah, i guess i'll keep dreaming on, as a "rookie".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SargionMagara said:

Well with the all the new items and the streamlined murmur farms, i can say the road is definitely shorter now, but yeah, i guess i'll keep dreaming on, as a "rookie".

It is shorter, but not as short as it is advertised.

Creating a larvling and taking the down lich takes much longer than before. Yes, the inbetween is shorter, but I think for an average player the difference won't be that apparent.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SargionMagara said:

making the finale on Railjack didn't quite made sense to me.

Look on the bright side: it means we can bring out Voidrig, which properly modded melts even the nasty SoPs pretty quick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

It is shorter, but not as short as it is advertised.

Creating a larvling and taking the down lich takes much longer than before. Yes, the inbetween is shorter, but I think for an average player the difference won't be that apparent.

Did they specifically advertised how short will it be though? I don't recall seeing anything like that. Again, i don't exactly roam the net that much so maybe i'm missing things (again.)

And i agree, while for your average player the changes might don't feel that dramatic, i do really think now that we can obtain Oull and Requiem Ultimatum on our hands, they can really shorten Lich hunting sessions significantly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Remember when we didnt have the showdown and people were screeching about the devs being liars?

Welcome to the other side.

I wasn't particularly forum active back then so i never knew that, but i see. That's a given, isn't it?

 

5 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

Look on the bright side: it means we can bring out Voidrig, which properly modded melts even the nasty SoPs pretty quick.

Yeah, i already love having more reasons to go on my Railjack and having the ability to bring out your Mech to fight these tanky things, is indeed awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor einer Stunde schrieb Kaotyke:

Remember when we didnt have the showdown and people were screeching about the devs being liars?

Welcome to the other side.

 

Remember when absolutely no one was surprised that there was no showdown in Railjack because Liches launched before Railjack? I do, you clearly don't.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...