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I wanted to play Railjack, you know...


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People complained. I like The new missions, but I also enjoyed straight up RJ gameplay too. Unfortunately there were too many vocal voices going "if I wanted to play Elite Dangerous I would play that. Leave space combat out of Warframe. content Island!!!" 

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1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Unfortunately there were too many vocal voices going "if I wanted to play Elite Dangerous I would play that. Leave space combat out of Warframe. content Island!!!" 

The loud minority usually is all that gets recognized by DE.

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Remember the 2019 Railjack presentation?

We're supposed to be able to play both at the same time with some of the team in Railjack and other running the ship board mission.

Unfortunately, this only seems to run in whatever engine the presentation used and not whatever the live game uses.

I don't get it either.

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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

People complained. I like The new missions, but I also enjoyed straight up RJ gameplay too. Unfortunately there were too many vocal voices going "if I wanted to play Elite Dangerous I would play that. Leave space combat out of Warframe. content Island!!!" 

59 minutes ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said:

The loud minority usually is all that gets recognized by DE.

Yeah, sadly vocal minorities have way more sway than they should. On the other hand, the people we call "the vocal minority" probably say the same things about us...

The reality of the situation is, we all believe we're in the right and we all want DE to listen to us. If you ask me, the best solution is to just present our arguments and hope that DE listens. The more persuasive side usually gets their way. (fortunately or unforunately)

 

59 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Remember the 2019 Railjack presentation?

We're supposed to be able to play both at the same time with some of the team in Railjack and other running the ship board mission.

Unfortunately, this only seems to run in whatever engine the presentation used and not whatever the live game uses.

I don't get it either.

I think that's the end goal.

Step one: add old missions to railjack.

Step two: wait two years (if it didn't take that long).

Step three: Make it so squads can split/whatever else makes it so someone stays in space.

Step four: give the guys in space a job.

Step five: Grofit!

Too bad none of these steps say "add actual Railjack survival" (yes, still salty)

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8 hours ago, nuwbertron said:

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I loaded into a "Railjack Survival" mission and was promptly asked to leave my Railjack and play normal survival.

Was it really that hard to make a survival mission in Railjack? Can we really not have unique missions for Railjack? Is it necessary for the Railjack to be a glorified interactive loading screen for standard missions?

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

DE doesn't know what to do with Railjack. What they provided at the beginning was a buggy, glitchy underdeveloped mess pushed out the door to coincide with the game awards show. It was nothing like they presented it to be at the the two prior TennoCons. Then came Scarlet Spear which was a buggy, glitchy mess and it's squad link feature was nonexistant and nothing like what DE showed off at TennoCon. The missions were the same missions over and over again, no exploration like they showed at TennoCon. Then they went with the easiest option which was to copy normal star chart missions and paste them into Railjack before moving on to other content. I wish they never made Railjack. Oh well.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, nuwbertron said:

The reality of the situation is, we all believe we're in the right and we all want DE to listen to us. If you ask me, the best solution is to just present our arguments and hope that DE listens. The more persuasive side usually gets their way. (fortunately or unforunately)

Once you realize DE doesn't care, you stop bothering to offer better solutions because why bother? Why care? DE doesn't.

Edited by (PSN)DoctorWho_90250
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hace 20 horas, nuwbertron dijo:

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

No, it is not the only one.

  In its current state, Railjack is just a taxi, and another half-implemented "open world" that doesn't add anything relevant.

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I don't like how all players in the team are locked out from the Railjack after transition to ground mission.

Wasn't Scarlet Spear supposed to be the prototype of RJ/ground missions going in parallel? 

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20 hours ago, nuwbertron said:

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I loaded into a "Railjack Survival" mission and was promptly asked to leave my Railjack and play normal survival.

Was it really that hard to make a survival mission in Railjack? Can we really not have unique missions for Railjack? Is it necessary for the Railjack to be a glorified interactive loading screen for standard missions?

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

Half-bothered

Pure Railjack survival would be ridiculously easy, since RJs regenerate health for free and can be equipped with Engineers who heal even more damage for free. It might also be ridiculously tedious, depending on how tanky the fighters get

But Corpus Railjack in general is a disappointment for me. If I'm in multiplayer, I'm disappointed that the entire squad goes inside the ship and it turns into a normal mission. Sure in solo that's unavoidable, but I wish it worked like Grineer Railjack Skirmish where you have a Railjack Crew and an Away Crew.

Like as an example: you're in Railjack Survival. Away Crew does Survival as normal, maybe also deactivating turrets/torpedoes/etc. (I wouldn't make this hard, just an excuse to get players moving around the ship). Meanwhile the Railjack Crew takes down ships full of reinforcements (that do not carry life support. Just something for the Railjack to actually do

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3 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

I don't like how all players in the team are locked out from the Railjack after transition to ground mission.

Wasn't Scarlet Spear supposed to be the prototype of RJ/ground missions going in parallel? 

And the prototype showed the flaws of the system with space teams waiting up to 30 minutes for a single kill code. 

They had to make the interaction Player > Server > Player, which made the wait what it was because if it was Player > Player would mean if there was any connection issue between teams the space one would be S#&$ out of luck. By having the Server as middle man, data was stored, but, as we all saw: could make absurd wait times.

 

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15 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

DE doesn't know what to do with Railjack. What they provided at the beginning was a buggy, glitchy underdeveloped mess pushed out the door to coincide with the game awards show. It was nothing like they presented it to be at the the two prior TennoCons. Then came Scarlet Spear which was a buggy, glitchy mess and it's squad link feature was nonexistant and nothing like what DE showed off at TennoCon. The missions were the same missions over and over again, no exploration like they showed at TennoCon. Then they went with the easiest option which was to copy normal star chart missions and paste them into Railjack before moving on to other content. I wish they never made Railjack. Oh well.

15 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Once you realize DE doesn't care, you stop bothering to offer better solutions because why bother? Why care? DE doesn't.

You know, there was a time when I shared the sentiment, but I figured, if I'm going to be disappointed anyway, might as well attempt to do something about it. I'd rather fail something than regret not trying. So, screw it! I'll just continue to bring it up. Who knows, if that one conclave guy can have his way, maybe I'll get my turn eventually.

 

4 hours ago, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

With all this *@##$ing about Railjack being retarded, I find it sad that DE doesn't realize they already have some fodder for Railjack content in their old Archwing missions.

All they need to do is change some of the map sizes and mission parameters (not have any interiors for points of interest, except crewships and your Railjack).

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

For example:

SPACE SATELLITE INTERCEPTION:

Use archwing interception. Your Railjack can hack one satellite, but you need to have other Warframes in Archwing reach the others. The node that requires your RJ to hack is hackable by archwing but at 50% the speed.

SPACE MOBILE DEFENSE SALVAGE:

Darvo or w/e flies some small mining ship / salvager ship that has to go to different points of a space map, then do a task (timer) like in Mobile Defence. Your RJ does bodyguard duty as Crewships come in and try to blast Darvo into Grineer diarrhea.

SPACE RAIDER PURSUIT:

Sevagoth's new quest already tells you two RJs can be on the same space map (although the quest is SOLO, so I'm not sure about performance when it comes to squads). Simply do the Grineer courier mission with a little bit of the Phobos pursuit mission. Destroy the marked Crewships before they can escape (timer or w/e). Cooperation makes the mission go even faster.

SPACE GOLEM / BALOR ASSASSINATION:

Basically your boss mission. Kill a Jordas Golem or Balor with a Railjack and its weapons. If you really want, you can introduce an interior, like with the Sentient Anomaly (Murex mission).

This, this right here. If it's ok to just copy the old missions why wouldn't this be fine? I'm not asking for DE to reinvent the wheel here, I just want Railjack missions to revolve around the damn ship. If I wanted to play old survival I could just use the damn star chart, I have like 30 nodes to choose between.

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I wouldn't say I mind it.  Could it be better?  Sure.  But it's just one flavor of Railjack mission, and there are plenty of others.

The problem, in my opinion, is that it's not really a Railjack mission. If you have someone leave the room until you enter the main ship they would never guess it's a Railjack mission.

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On 2021-07-10 at 4:25 AM, nuwbertron said:

This, this right here. If it's ok to just copy the old missions why wouldn't this be fine? I'm not asking for DE to reinvent the wheel here, I just want Railjack missions to revolve around the damn ship. If I wanted to play old survival I could just use the damn star chart, I have like 30 nodes to choose between.

You know that's not the DE way.

Most people will know "That which is easy is simple; that which is simple is hard."

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I think railjack is awesome,its one of my favorite game modes... its visually stunning..the space battles feel like im playing a completely different game,then after the space battle i go into the final objective of playing my favorite game of all time = Warframe.

The rewards are great and better than most and my mind boggles on what crazy futuristic stuff and missions DE will add to this game mode in the future.

Remember Rome wasnt  built in a day...it takes time (months-years} for DE to dream up of new missions and stuff to put into railjack,just look at the artwork..and programing and how complicated that was to do and implement into railjack.

Personally i think think this is only the beginning of railjack and years into the future it will become much better,bigger and more fleshed out than what we are seeing and playing today.

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On 2021-07-09 at 11:00 AM, Fl_3 said:

Remember the 2019 Railjack presentation?

We're supposed to be able to play both at the same time with some of the team in Railjack and other running the ship board mission.

Unfortunately, this only seems to run in whatever engine the presentation used and not whatever the live game uses.

I don't get it either.

In one of the devstream, they mentioned about this. They said they couldn't get AI from both inside(mission) and outside(RJ) AI to work at same time. So don't hold your hope up. I am pretty disappointed by this limitation as well.

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Am 9.7.2021 um 13:06 schrieb Wolfwaffe:

Yes, I do feel bothered.

Sure, original RJ wasn't very warframe-y, but it was a breath of fresh air in a stale pile of content that I was overly fed-up at the moment.

The thing is that if I feel like playing a space game instead of Warframe I’ll just go do that, because I’m not an addict. I can just pick a good game from that genre and play that, I’m not dependent on the mediocre one in Warframe. So the value this „breath of fresh air“ adds is very questionable.

Am 9.7.2021 um 15:23 schrieb (PSN)Jmazing7:

Grineer Railjack was perfect and corpus railjack shouldn't have changed a thing except for adding more modes and targets to destroy.

I don't understand how the game can handle having some players on the objective and some players in the railjack on the grineer side but when it comes to corpus we are all forced onto the objective to lighten the load on the game.

To my knowledge, the issue is enemy count. The Grineer indoor levels are relatively small, as are the Special objectives in the Railjack part of the Corpus missions, not full-size regular levels. They don’t contain nearly as many enemies as a Defense mission throws at you.

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25 minutes ago, Godmode_Ash said:

In one of the devstream, they mentioned about this. They said they couldn't get AI from both inside(mission) and outside(RJ) AI to work at same time. So don't hold your hope up. I am pretty disappointed by this limitation as well.

This is one of my main issues with Digital Extremes.

They show us something, tell us how amazing it's going to be when it drops and then all of a sudden they can't do it, even though they've shown it to us working.

How can you say something doesn't work after you've shown it to the players? If it didn't work, it wouldn't work in the first place.

Didn't Scott say on that same dev stream that it would take "A lot of work to get it running"? Maybe that's the issue right there too much work, too much hassle, after all, DE are considered to be pretty lazy on the "lets get things done" front, hence the whole [DE]layed meme.

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They should've just done something similar to the grineer missions, where you have an away team and a railjack team, but with different objectives (because different ships). It is kind of a letdown to try to jump into a railjack mission, only to end up finishing it in your warframe in a standard boring defense mission. I actually find grineer missions to generally be more enjoyable due to this, tbh. 

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On 2021-07-09 at 7:00 PM, Fl_3 said:

Remember the 2019 Railjack presentation?

We're supposed to be able to play both at the same time with some of the team in Railjack and other running the ship board mission.

Unfortunately, this only seems to run in whatever engine the presentation used and not whatever the live game uses.

I don't get it either.

That would be the Grineer skirmishes, actually, as you can split perfectly fine there. However, this limits enemy counts and tileset size. For some missions, this in turn reduces how much 'ground' content there is.

Having said that, the 2019 railjack didn't actually have a Railjack mission. The Railjack's only role was to bring the player to the ship and then serve the exciting purpose of letting someone push buttons so somebody else can go have fun blowing bad guys up. Somehow I doubt that particular version would have been well-recieved.

 

Now granted, I think there's currently way too much ground content, and volatile probably didn't need to load a full tileset.

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On 2021-07-09 at 12:54 PM, nuwbertron said:

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I loaded into a "Railjack Survival" mission and was promptly asked to leave my Railjack and play normal survival.

Was it really that hard to make a survival mission in Railjack? Can we really not have unique missions for Railjack? Is it necessary for the Railjack to be a glorified interactive loading screen for standard missions?

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

I agree, removing mission with just exterminate in space and then adding normal ones to railjack was just bad idea, defense survival or anything like that. who ever complained about railjack before corpus is just people that sit on forum and dont even play properly but also railjack had only mods and 2 weapons in it and thats it, now it has more content, which it was lacking, i enjoyed and still enjoy grineer alot. for corpus missions i dont mind spy, exterminate or volatile if we were not forced all to go in but as it is im avoiding it as a plague.

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Am 9.7.2021 um 12:54 schrieb nuwbertron:

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I loaded into a "Railjack Survival" mission and was promptly asked to leave my Railjack and play normal survival.

Was it really that hard to make a survival mission in Railjack? Can we really not have unique missions for Railjack? Is it necessary for the Railjack to be a glorified interactive loading screen for standard missions?

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

I don't even want to change gunnery seat and switch to an emergency like with primary / secondary weapon.

i don't need this junk with ground missions. I also don't want to see this mindlessness with hacking and then shooting some garbage outside again.
railjack could be relaxing, but now it has been implemented poorly and a lot is extremely pointless and confusing.

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20 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

This is one of my main issues with Digital Extremes.

They show us something, tell us how amazing it's going to be when it drops and then all of a sudden they can't do it, even though they've shown it to us working.

How can you say something doesn't work after you've shown it to the players? If it didn't work, it wouldn't work in the first place.

Didn't Scott say on that same dev stream that it would take "A lot of work to get it running"? Maybe that's the issue right there too much work, too much hassle, after all, DE are considered to be pretty lazy on the "lets get things done" front, hence the whole [DE]layed meme.

Basically what they showed at those TennoCons was not actual gameplay. Just simulations, and they passed it off as actual gameplay.

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From the tennocon 2018 trailer railjack was always meant to be 'seamless' between space and ground.

Which they then - later - found out they couldn't do. No more fake trailers, thank you.

 

So after 'pure space' died last year, they decided to continue to push for 'seamless', hoping no one would notice and accept the budget version we got this year.

 

Where ironically railjack players had moved on and were willing to invest in 'pure space' railjack, so players asked for 'railjack survival', 'railjack defense' and so on, more game modes for 'pure space'.

I don't know if the developers thought they were being clever or what exactly the plan was there but they decided to make it not 'pure space' and not 'seamless' and simply add loading into ground maps - from a railjack.

Which they named "railjack survival" and the players mocking named 'railjack taxi'. It wasn't what the developers aimed for and it wasn't what the players asked for.

 

So the problem goes all the way back to 2016-2017, where someone should have sat down and looked up the stats on their engine limitations and figured it wasn't possible, years before the fake trailer.

Then after the fact, you cut your losses, okay 'seamless' isn't possible, where do we go from here. 'Pure space' works and the players are asking for game modes for 'pure space', then you'd think the next move was self-explanatory.

 

I also look at it like, anything can work if it's fun gameplay. The problems dragging railjack down last year, forge, artygun, teamroles, archwing, all the things that were frustrating, didn't get any attention.

So more than can 'pure space' work, can 'seamless' work, they need to rewire their brain to first think is it fun and second what is the point.

Because I am looking at the 2018 concept for 'seamless' and wondering what the point was?

Fly down to cetus to pick up a friend, give them a ride? Is that a realistic demand in the game, do we have players getting stuck on foot having to walk home from a long mission?

People fast load maps from a menu, no one is moving between maps physically, so what was the point.

To me it feels like someone had a mental image of something they thought looked cool but never stopped to take any real life practicalities into consideration.

They just saw a ship, not the ship we already have, another ship on top of that ship, fly down to an openworld map and then had that image stuck in ther mind.

 

Same thing with Yareli's k-drive here recently. It's upside down thinking. You don't just add a k-drive because you would like to. First you figure out what fun could be had, down to how it plays with timing, suspense, flow of gameplay, keyboard rotation etc. and then decide what the point is.

Maybe the drive could climb walls or had no collision or increased murmur spawns or something, anything, that hit an actual demand, a point. Maybe the k-drive left a trail of water that increased other player's speed. Ask the players around town and get 5 billion ideas. But it must have a point.

With Lavos someone sat down and said, hey, I think adding cooldown timers would be fun, meaningful and add to the game. that's insane. My idea of fun is standing around for 9 seconds without being able to cast, while ember over here is pumping out 3 animations per second.

 

Same thing with the suitcase weapons, what is the point? I haven't seen any of them even be an actual suitcase, what is the gameplay mechanics of it being a suitcase. There isn't any.

So the thinking needs to really be turned upside down from where it is, fun first, the point second and then the concept third.

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