I wanted to play Railjack, you know...

[Soy77]

On 2021-07-09 at 5:54 PM, nuwbertron said:

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I loaded into a "Railjack Survival" mission and was promptly asked to leave my Railjack and play normal survival.

Was it really that hard to make a survival mission in Railjack? Can we really not have unique missions for Railjack? Is it necessary for the Railjack to be a glorified interactive loading screen for standard missions?

Am I the only one who is bothered by this?

No you're not.

But as you can see from the replies here, plenty of salty people just want to play regular warframe with some extra steps. Why they don't just boot up normal missions, I don't know why. Probably because they're too busy getting salty.

I and many others have made similar threads. We all got massacred pretty hard by these salt fans.

And nothing will change.

So here, have my +1 as meaningless as it is. I hope at the very least it can make you feel better knowing that you're not alone.

[Vahenir]

It would be nice with more pure railjack type missions. 

Survival for instance could be done by simply locking out the forge, or at least the repair juice. So what you have at the start is what you have, once its depleted you cant fix stuff anymore. Perhaps enemies can drop more if necessary.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Surbusken said:

With Lavos someone sat down and said, hey, I think adding cooldown timers would be fun, meaningful and add to the game. that's insane. My idea of fun is standing around for 9 seconds without being able to cast, while ember over here is pumping out 3 animations per second.

With my Xaku, I can put GoL + Gaze and do many animations/damage per second. However that's not fun.

While Lavos is far from perfect (I still hate they haven't fixed Vial rush & other abilities that stops sprinting) it added values to the system. Vial rush doesn't need energy so you can use it in case of "no energy modes" or similar. It shows what can be done with Helminth to add some variety.

ps. rest of your post is huge +1

[nuwbertron]

On 2021-07-14 at 11:16 AM, (XBOX)Mark T Upgrade said:

I think railjack is awesome,its one of my favorite game modes... its visually stunning..the space battles feel like im playing a completely different game,then after the space battle i go into the final objective of playing my favorite game of all time = Warframe.

The rewards are great and better than most and my mind boggles on what crazy futuristic stuff and missions DE will add to this game mode in the future.

Remember Rome wasnt  built in a day...it takes time (months-years} for DE to dream up of new missions and stuff to put into railjack,just look at the artwork..and programing and how complicated that was to do and implement into railjack.

Personally i think think this is only the beginning of railjack and years into the future it will become much better,bigger and more fleshed out than what we are seeing and playing today.

Shure, I agree... My question is then, why do we need old endless missions crowbared in here? I just can't see a way this tactic end with a good result.

On 2021-07-14 at 12:02 PM, Fl_3 said:

This is one of my main issues with Digital Extremes.

They show us something, tell us how amazing it's going to be when it drops and then all of a sudden they can't do it, even though they've shown it to us working.

How can you say something doesn't work after you've shown it to the players? If it didn't work, it wouldn't work in the first place.

Didn't Scott say on that same dev stream that it would take "A lot of work to get it running"? Maybe that's the issue right there too much work, too much hassle, after all, DE are considered to be pretty lazy on the "lets get things done" front, hence the whole [DE]layed meme.

I mean... Isn't that just standard behaviour across the industry? Remember Watchdogs? Cyberpunk?

I feel that the whole playerbase is starting to agree with you there. You only have to look at the most recent updates to see that effort was spared.

20 hours ago, JumpingHornet said:

They should've just done something similar to the grineer missions, where you have an away team and a railjack team, but with different objectives (because different ships). It is kind of a letdown to try to jump into a railjack mission, only to end up finishing it in your warframe in a standard boring defense mission. I actually find grineer missions to generally be more enjoyable due to this, tbh. 

My point exactly.

15 hours ago, TheSarkY said:

I agree, removing mission with just exterminate in space and then adding normal ones to railjack was just bad idea, defense survival or anything like that. who ever complained about railjack before corpus is just people that sit on forum and dont even play properly but also railjack had only mods and 2 weapons in it and thats it, now it has more content, which it was lacking, i enjoyed and still enjoy grineer alot. for corpus missions i dont mind spy, exterminate or volatile if we were not forced all to go in but as it is im avoiding it as a plague.

Shure, but remembering Railjack gameplay before the corpus update doesn't really fill me with nostalgia. I think DE did a great job removing the clunkiness of Railjack. The problem is they offset that with missions that try to use the ship as little as possible/make it meaningless. I find myself playing grineer nodes more now than back then...

3 hours ago, Surbusken said:

From the tennocon 2018 trailer railjack was always meant to be 'seamless' between space and ground.

Which they then - later - found out they couldn't do. No more fake trailers, thank you.

 

So after 'pure space' died last year, they decided to continue to push for 'seamless', hoping no one would notice and accept the budget version we got this year.

 

Where ironically railjack players had moved on and were willing to invest in 'pure space' railjack, so players asked for 'railjack survival', 'railjack defense' and so on, more game modes for 'pure space'.

I don't know if the developers thought they were being clever or what exactly the plan was there but they decided to make it not 'pure space' and not 'seamless' and simply add loading into ground maps - from a railjack.

Which they named "railjack survival" and the players mocking named 'railjack taxi'. It wasn't what the developers aimed for and it wasn't what the players asked for.

 

So the problem goes all the way back to 2016-2017, where someone should have sat down and looked up the stats on their engine limitations and figured it wasn't possible, years before the fake trailer.

Then after the fact, you cut your losses, okay 'seamless' isn't possible, where do we go from here. 'Pure space' works and the players are asking for game modes for 'pure space', then you'd think the next move was self-explanatory.

 

I also look at it like, anything can work if it's fun gameplay. The problems dragging railjack down last year, forge, artygun, teamroles, archwing, all the things that were frustrating, didn't get any attention.

So more than can 'pure space' work, can 'seamless' work, they need to rewire their brain to first think is it fun and second what is the point.

Because I am looking at the 2018 concept for 'seamless' and wondering what the point was?

Fly down to cetus to pick up a friend, give them a ride? Is that a realistic demand in the game, do we have players getting stuck on foot having to walk home from a long mission?

People fast load maps from a menu, no one is moving between maps physically, so what was the point.

To me it feels like someone had a mental image of something they thought looked cool but never stopped to take any real life practicalities into consideration.

They just saw a ship, not the ship we already have, another ship on top of that ship, fly down to an openworld map and then had that image stuck in ther mind.

 

Same thing with Yareli's k-drive here recently. It's upside down thinking. You don't just add a k-drive because you would like to. First you figure out what fun could be had, down to how it plays with timing, suspense, flow of gameplay, keyboard rotation etc. and then decide what the point is.

Maybe the drive could climb walls or had no collision or increased murmur spawns or something, anything, that hit an actual demand, a point. Maybe the k-drive left a trail of water that increased other player's speed. Ask the players around town and get 5 billion ideas. But it must have a point.

With Lavos someone sat down and said, hey, I think adding cooldown timers would be fun, meaningful and add to the game. that's insane. My idea of fun is standing around for 9 seconds without being able to cast, while ember over here is pumping out 3 animations per second.

 

Same thing with the suitcase weapons, what is the point? I haven't seen any of them even be an actual suitcase, what is the gameplay mechanics of it being a suitcase. There isn't any.

So the thinking needs to really be turned upside down from where it is, fun first, the point second and then the concept third.

Great points. Many players, from what I've seen, feel that DE stopped asking "what would be fun", hell many feel that DE forgot what "fun" even means.

If you ask me, this looks like burnout. I mean, think about it, you work on the same thing for a few years, every time you try something new it fails _{(DE tried making a few games in the past, without much success)} so you return to that same thing that you've worked on all this time, you start getting tired but you can't really give up because it's the only thing that provides income _{(the only thing under your name, anyway)} so you start to feel forced to work on it, because you feel forced to work you start enjoying it less and less, the players eventually pick up on that _{(you can't tell me that you feel that DE put their heart and soul into these last few updates)}, and so we reach present time...

Do I think I'm wrong? Not really, I wouldn't say it if I wouldn't believe it. Do I hope I'm wrong? Hell yeah!

Maybe what Warframe needs now, more than ever, is a break. How would that happen? I have no idea, let's not forget that we, as players, can just say "I feel burnt out so i'll just come back in a few years, no biggie" the devs don't really have that option...

2 hours ago, Vahenir said:

It would be nice with more pure railjack type missions. 

Survival for instance could be done by simply locking out the forge, or at least the repair juice. So what you have at the start is what you have, once its depleted you cant fix stuff anymore. Perhaps enemies can drop more if necessary.

You know, I always see ideas being presented by the community, some good, some bad, some great, some downright mind numbing. Wouldn't it be great if we had a segment of the devstreams be dedicated to community opinion on speciffic parts of Warframe's gameplay? You know, make a poll on the forums one week before the stream asking player how they would improve, say, Railjack endless missions. Have the devs give their opinions on the most popular suggestions on the stream and chose one to implement (maybe in a modified state)

Just a thought, I'm sure there are better ways to implement a true feedback system. It would be nice to see one implemented...

[TheSarkY]

22 minutes ago, nuwbertron said:

You know, I always see ideas being presented by the community, some good, some bad, some great, some downright mind numbing. Wouldn't it be great if we had a segment of the devstreams be dedicated to community opinion on speciffic parts of Warframe's gameplay? You know, make a poll on the forums one week before the stream asking player how they would improve, say, Railjack endless missions. Have the devs give their opinions on the most popular suggestions on the stream and chose one to implement (maybe in a modified state)

 

Something similar is in one other game that i play, there is site, people post idea and then others upvote it when livestream comes they discuss them, even those that people just ask in chat. But sadly that is never gonna happen with warframe because devs are cut off and dont want to do it, unless some streamer asks something, we know history its streamers that they listen or allow to give them questions.

[Aldain]

On 2021-07-09 at 7:35 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

what exactly would be the limiting condition of a Railjack based survival?

Having to shoot down more and more "ship inhibitors" which shut down functions of the Railjack, with some of them being in crewships.

Or something like having to collect power cells from fallen ships to keep the Railjack running similar to Life Support due enemies draining power from ships in the region.

I also had a similar concept for Space based Defense missions, like defending a Solaris mining rig on an asteroid from both exterior and interior threats (mostly Ramsleds for interior, but also some teleportation too).

It's entirely possible in theory, the systems with small internal tiles could also support it without needing to transfer over to a different mission type.

[CephalonCarnage]

Railjack Survival and Defence do not make sense.

However, the kind of combination of both does - the target to defend is an entire base (not a cryopod) and the squads are defending both the base from incoming attackers and boarders, at the same time finding and putting out the missile batteries the base has that are also firing at the RJ and generally killing the crew and automated defences.

That could work, destroy all the incoming waves and destroy the 3 or so misslile batteries and you've done a round. Move on to the next one, board, assault, destroy and defend from incoming crews trying to take it back and/or blow its reactor. Something like that, mix it up with a few different maps - like a freighter or capship rather than a base, and if you wanted to make it hard combine with defection missions from a ship currently infested that, again, you have to shoot down the external infested monsters coming at you or crawling over the ship to get to the passengers holed up inside and then escort them to the RJ for extraction in escape pods that the infested will try to eat while the RJ shoots the attackers.

 

There's plenty of ways to make a combined RJ/away crew missions work that would be a lot of fun.  Alot more fun than the "speedrun whilst mashing E" that most ground missions have become.

[TheSarkY]

1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

Railjack Survival and Defence do not make sense.

However, the kind of combination of both does - the target to defend is an entire base (not a cryopod) and the squads are defending both the base from incoming attackers and boarders, at the same time finding and putting out the missile batteries the base has that are also firing at the RJ and generally killing the crew and automated defences.

That could work, destroy all the incoming waves and destroy the 3 or so misslile batteries and you've done a round. Move on to the next one, board, assault, destroy and defend from incoming crews trying to take it back and/or blow its reactor. Something like that, mix it up with a few different maps - like a freighter or capship rather than a base, and if you wanted to make it hard combine with defection missions from a ship currently infested that, again, you have to shoot down the external infested monsters coming at you or crawling over the ship to get to the passengers holed up inside and then escort them to the RJ for extraction in escape pods that the infested will try to eat while the RJ shoots the attackers.

 

There's plenty of ways to make a combined RJ/away crew missions work that would be a lot of fun.  Alot more fun than the "speedrun whilst mashing E" that most ground missions have become.

there is also option to defend cryopod inside of railjack as defense, you defend from boarding party and boarding pods as well as fighters in space.

there are so many ways to improve it as you said.

[Hypernaut1]

Despite what many people were saying, RJ controls pretty decently for a Capitol ship style space combat game. 

I do miss the FTL like play that out had even it was first released too. Managing fires, breeches and boarding enemies was fun to me. 

I would like to see more AW as fighter craft content though.