Theorycraft : building a tank from a squish frame?

[_Anise_]

I wonder how viable it is to take a squish frame that has no built in damage reductions and make it tanky without limiting the build to much ?

Not really considering dragonkey type shield gate exploitation, more traditional tanking. I few ideas include

Arcane guardian for one. pretty easy include but probably won't do a lot on its own,

quick thinking  on a high energy / generation setup, seem like this could work?

Adaption am really unsure about this? maybe you just die before it ramps up ? maybe its good pared with quick thinking or maybe stacking armor is just better ?

Also looking into subsume for survival, maybe there is something from helminth that might make relying on mods unnecessary ?

My usual subsume is breach, I just like it , it has control and damage both which indirectly effect your survivability but wondering if stacking stats and investing into something that either restores hp or shilds maybe even one that gives armor ?

open to suggestions on subsumes or abilities that might make this work!

Thanks

ps:why ? for fun and because I can!

[Firedtm]

I have what I call a Off Hand Tank for Khora, not the best idea as it takes away from her abilities, but it has worked, there are ways to make some squishy Warframes be able to tank, but it is a better idea to just flat out use their abilities to just kill the NPCs before they start to damage you.

[EiraRozen]

24 minutes ago, Zi-of-Jinx said:

I also use melee more when I want to tank, because holding melee allows you to block attacks coming from the front side, which is extremely useful when tanking.

 

Have you found it effective still? The melee nerf basically destroyed my build. Face-tank Equinox can't kill fast enough to keep from getting overrun.

[(PSN)Unstar]

You can certainly make any Warframe more tanky, but naturally every mod you're devoting to tankiness is going to mean fewer mods dedicated to your other functionality.  In my opinion there are some frames where it's just not worth it though, because you end up needing to sacrifice too many mod slots for too little tankiness.  But it also depends on how you play.

Quick Thinking + Flow can give a frame more effective health, but I've stopped using it on most frames because there are so many easy ways to instantly heal health, whereas Energy is more difficult.  Beyond that, once your energy is gone, you can't cast abilities, which kind of leaves you stuck.  Naturally you can regain it in a variety of ways, but I'd rather just not be in that situation in the first place by choosing alternate means of increasing my tankiness factor.

Adaptation and Arcane Guardian tend to work pretty great as easy ways to increase tankiness, and maybe it's not mentioned because it's so obvious but Vitality synergizes with these great.  Redirection also works great with Adaptation if you want to build up resistance before the damage starts hitting your health.

This might be a nitpick, but Breach is CC, which certainly helps survivability but is a different kind of survival than "tank".  So I don't think it applies here if the conversation is really about creating a tank.

[Soy77]

Aerodynamic + aviator + agility drift on titania.

 

You're welcome.

[Zi-Sui]

3 hours ago, EiraRozen said:

Have you found it effective still? The melee nerf basically destroyed my build. Face-tank Equinox can't kill fast enough to keep from getting overrun.

Tbh? Not so effective in SP survivals. Outside those though, yes. SP outdoor world bounties, SP defenses.

[EiraRozen]

13 hours ago, Soy77 said:

Aerodynamic + aviator + agility drift on titania.

 

You're welcome.

Yeah, I used to call her Tiny Tank Titania (TTT for short), but the changes to damage resistance nerfed that. Now she's not so tanky. Also, the 12% reduction on her is basically a wasted mod slot.

[LillyRaccune]

I don't dig shield gating personally. I would stick to infusing Nova's 1 into Yareli. Right now range doesn't affect her water blades, so Narrow Minded would be my priority.

I haven't tested it tho.

Because she is a pistols-crit, always-on-the-move frame I would consider sticking her with Bronco and Dizzying Rounds to open enemies to finishers. Rakta Dark Dagger can replenish shields, so that would combine into a close combat build (without being exclusively melee damage).

[EiraRozen]

21 hours ago, Soy77 said:

Well since op doesn't mention what he'll use it for, i thought I'll just pitch the idea anyway since it happen to fit op's description really, really well.

Fair enough. So long as you stay off the SP enemy accuracy is low enough that the nerf to damage reduction won't be a problem for her.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

It depends on how active you are in your gameplay, Rolling Guard is extremely broken. If you add a decaying dragon key. Arcane Barrier and Adaptation, then abuse shield gating while rolling every few seconds you basically can't die with any frame. Have fun.

[_Anise_]

I tried quick thinking, all its really doing is giving is giving me a bigger healthpool and I think I can't consistantly refill it quick enough though high damage waves

2 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

add a decaying dragon key. Arcane Barrier and Adaptation

does adaption stack/persist while you are in immune phases? assume you go immune and barrier instantly charges ? maybe the sentinel mod that recharges shields when they fully deplete too ? .. maybe even running taxon may help?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

I tried quick thinking, all its really doing is giving is giving me a bigger healthpool and I think I can't consistantly refill it quick enough though high damage waves

does adaption stack/persist while you are in immune phases? assume you go immune and barrier instantly charges ? maybe the sentinel mod that recharges shields when they fully deplete too ? .. maybe even running taxon may help?

I'm honestly not sure. I just know for example that I beat the MR 30 test with just rolling guard, arcane resistance and barrier on a lightly armoured Loki using no abilites. Rolling Guard is REALLY BROKEN, coupled with timing it between shield gating phases, you're untouchable.

[_Anise_]

so well I tried the shield gate tank, I wouldn't say its making unkillable but maybe I am doing something wrong ? it is making me tankier but there is no way the shields charge inside of the invulnerability windows

it goes something like ...

run into hail of gunfire ptzzz shields down invulnerability up

(possibility of taking damage between these 2 points)

invulnerability down roll invulnerability up

invulnerability down, at this point if arcane hasn't activated am usually not at full shields I die ?

edit:for some reason guardian dosn't seem to recharge shields or it does and they are instantly knocked out again.

edit2:also found that with enough enemies, I can die inbetween the time my shields drop and before breach has finished casting

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

My method for low armor frames is:

Shield tank: Shield mod, adaptation, arcane barrier.   And then usually inject harrow's condemn if the warframe doesnt have its own method to regain shields.  

This works ok, BUT if ur energy is drained you can be screwed,  but more importantly status affects dont care about your shields and DO take into account your armor.   So status affects can easily kill you even with a great shield tank.   

My Nekros, mag, Protea have 2k+ shields 90% DR and can regain their own shields. 

[0_The_F00l]

Since you are talking about specifically squishy frames (and not already moderately tanky frames 

Here's my suggestions :

Armor increasing arcane :

Arcane ultimatum , if you have access to finsher abilities this arcane is a lot more consistent and effective than guardian. You can subsume one of the many sleeper abilities to take advantage of it (rest is easy , quick and effective ) .

Helminth subsume :

pillage (hildryn subsume) is by far the most useful ability to keep you running. It gives status purge , enemy Armor and shield reduction and can instantly replenish your shield gate. Works on most frame loadouts without changes. 

Gloom (sevagoth subsume) gives CC and health leech , if you have an ability that keeps doing persistant damage you will usually be at full health at all times. And all enemies around you being slowed is a bonus damage avoidance.

Companions :

Guardian mod (sentinel/robot) can replenish shields to give additional shield gate ,

sacrifice (sentinel) will revive you once , pair with parazon mod that can revive sentinels on finishers.

Martyr symbiosis (vulpaphyla) will save you from death amd give a few seconds of damage immunity , and if you survive long enough it will replenish once the vulpaphyla regens.

the vampire kavat I can't remeber can also provide a revival once.

Most other methods either need to be built specifically or are innate to a frame.

[_Anise_]

I did play with shield gating but maybe I am expecting too much from it ? it seemed ok against 10 or so level 50 corrupted heavy gunners but when I summoned some over level 100 it just seem to fall flat.

though I added growing power that seem to fully recharge shields in 1 cast but still was temperamental and required expert timing, not really a fan of only being alive by the skin of my teeth!

 

Just now, 0_The_F00l said:

sacrifice (sentinel) will revive you once , pair with parazon mod that can revive sentinels on finishers.

I never actually got the sentinel version of this to work, the vampire cat version worked great for me! but I see this as more treating a symptom rather than curing the problem!

Just now, 0_The_F00l said:

Guardian mod

I just tried this one not too long ago, should it go...

shields go down, get immune, shields full, shields go down again second immune into slow charge? what I am seeing is

shields, no shields dead unless this is happening so fast I am missing it ?

[Soy77]

36 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

so well I tried the shield gate tank, I wouldn't say its making unkillable but maybe I am doing something wrong ? it is making me tankier but there is no way the shields charge inside of the invulnerability windows

it goes something like ...

run into hail of gunfire ptzzz shields down invulnerability up

(possibility of taking damage between these 2 points)

invulnerability down roll invulnerability up

invulnerability down, at this point if arcane hasn't activated am usually not at full shields I die ?

edit:for some reason guardian dosn't seem to recharge shields or it does and they are instantly knocked out again.

edit2:also found that with enough enemies, I can die inbetween the time my shields drop and before breach has finished casting

would love to see someone answer this.

i treat shield gating as something that might probably save me when i screw up, that's it. which makes me the worst warframe player in the sad history of bad warframe players, i know.
asked about it a couple of times, but all i ever got was long diplomatic speeches about how i should git gud. this is actually the first time i see someone break down the play by play and what button to actually press when shield-gating.

looking forward for more.