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Why you shouldn't stab your lich every time


Thaxano

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7 hours ago, Thaxano said:

Do you know:
1) A mission can have 10 thralls?
2) A lich can transform grineer around her into 10 MORE thralls for a total of 20 thralls (maximum) for each missions with a lich in it?

As a Switch player who can't count on public matchmaking and solos all missions and "lore" stuff, I think this is going to come in handy, so thanks!

Sorry everyone else hates it 😂

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I am not sure if it is objectively true but after the SoP update, I felt that Lich appearance frequency (or their angry level) is much lower than before. Before the update, every Lich I vanquished/converted was at rank 5, now they cannot survive pass rank 3, i.e. they only appear for like 3-4 times before I got the correct sequence out of murmur farming. 

Once you stab the lich, their angry level reset and will appear less frequently. So maybe, probably, stabbing them whenever they appear is not a good idea.

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Il y a 1 heure, (NSW)notyetawizard a dit :

As a Switch player who can't count on public matchmaking and solos all missions and "lore" stuff, I think this is going to come in handy, so thanks!

Sorry everyone else hates it 😂

You're welcome and don't worry ^^

 

il y a 2 minutes, RichardKam a dit :

I am not sure if it is objectively true but after the SoP update, I felt that Lich appearance frequency (or their angry level) is much lower than before. Before the update, every Lich I vanquished/converted was at rank 5, now they cannot survive pass rank 3, i.e. they only appear for like 3-4 times before I got the correct sequence out of murmur farming. 

Once you stab the lich, their angry level reset and will appear less frequently. So maybe, probably, stabbing them whenever they appear is not a good idea.

that's what i was thinking but then they made me thinking in a public way, everyone is killing his lich, so everyone share the +10 murmur until you give too this boost, everyone push everyone to the murmur discovering and end up finishing the lich quickly... i simply didn't think like that because it seemed pointless to me because i didn't see the whole bonus just every thrall we lost in the process... at least you can do both: go into public session when your lich isn't angry to get the bonus from people that stab the lich ASAP and also fill up the angry bar and then farm the thrall in solo or with friends in private session when your lich as a chance to appear and when you want to kill the lich you get back in public to get the bonus and also give yours to other people

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3 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Lich now only take one planet though, means all of those missions you didn't finish will disappear and you only get a new set of mission with higher level

Yeah higher level exterminate, capture, rescue and if needed survival.  With the new system I rarely have to go farther than that into the planet.  It might not make a difference but I don't wanna do defense, interception, defection etc. at any level.  Oh yeah spy is pretty good too.

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39分钟前 , (PSN)thowed 说:

Yeah higher level exterminate, capture, rescue and if needed survival.  With the new system I rarely have to go farther than that into the planet.  It might not make a difference but I don't wanna do defense, interception, defection etc. at any level.  Oh yeah spy is pretty good too.

I think that is because the murmur requirement was reduced. Before the update, playing through one planet was not sufficient to get enough murmur. So you have multiple planets under influence, otherwise people will have to play defection.

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I killed 50+ liches/sisters so far and after testing all "meta"and "nonmeta" ways to farm murmur and eliminate your lich i have concluded the following:

If you are new player and cant deal with enemies and lich go public and someone will carry you. For everyone else who is fully capable of soloing it, do it solo or with a friend. It was faster, if its not faster then you are doing it wrong.

Little history:

After i killed my first three liches last year by doing public murmur farms i had enough requem orbs to farm out every word 3-5 times. After that i just equip random combination of mods and go nuts, i always stab lich as soon as it appears. They nerfed them twice in last few months to speed up lich farming but before that it was more or less like this:

1. Stabbing a lich makes him level up and reset anger meter.

2. Getting lich to lvl/rank 5 would stop him from reseting his anger meter.

3. Rank/lvl 5 lich with full anger meter will spawn almost every mission.

What this does is let you choose more missions and try out combinations blindly and you will often enough get lucky.

Now after SoP update lich/sister controls only one planet which kidna sucks imho but whats great is that their anger meter levels up faster. Another thing they changed with this update is that now every party member gets increase anger meter no matter who started the mission and who is stabbing thralls. Yes you heard it right before this update if you did public murmur or joined friend on his lich missions and were not stabbing anyone your lich didnt get angry, no anger no spawn. Which is why prior to this update it was infinitly better to play solo. There were some other under the hood changes they did, i didnt read everything in change log but i am pretty sure this change was mentioned.

Last year before most of this changes i could do a lich in 2-4h while most people (on reddit/forums) said it took them 2-3 days or more, now i can clear it under an hour solo by stabbing every time. It takes more time to get weapon you want than to clear a lich/sister.

With that all said here is what it comes down to, most of the time you will unlock murmur for first word before lich/sister spawns and you want to try it out, put it in first slot and when lich/sister spawns stab it, if its correct great if not you know its not in first slot.

TL:DL You lich/sister will probably not spawn before you know first word and when it spawns there is not a single valid reason not to stab, if you really think it will speed things up avoid stabbing and farm thralls/robodogs if it spawns again in between 1st and 2nd murmur but once you learn 2nd word again not a single valid reason not to stab. Repeat until you know the right combo. Most of my liches/sisters were lvl 3 by the time i defetead them and i always stab. Once again if you take more than 2-3h now after 2-3 big nerfs since it liches were added you are doing something very wrong and public murmur farms are not the solution.

EDIT: I was writing this after night shift at 6am so it a messy wall of text.

EDIT2: If you have questions ill try to answer below.

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9 hours ago, ZeroX4 said:

You fail to understand TIME wasted VS TIME invested

Its like bringing slow nova into defense
Yeah you will have easy time
Yeah you wont die
Yeah you will get more accuracy (cause of slug tempo of enemies)

But also YEAH you will stay longer in a mission

For some if not most of us its like "i did it so many time i just want to rush it move on to next mission and forget about it"

Its like ppl in front of extraction on SP ALERTS asking you "wait for acolyte?"
And im always like "go waste your time not mine"

Because if someone want to farm SE then go to some SP mission and do so
While we go to SP ALERTS just to get SE as mission reward

And often waiting for that acolyte to spawn is more time consuming than going for them on regular SP missions
 

Reminds me I need to play Slowva in defense missions more often.

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4 hours ago, Linktoheaven said:

You lich/sister will probably not spawn before you know first word and when it spawns there is not a single valid reason not to stab

There's one very large valid reason: I do not want to have to deal with a level 5 lich. Simple as that. Fighting a gigantic bullet sponge which, post Corpus liches, has gotten even spongier than before is not fun. Games are supposed to be fun. The moment it stops being fun, the game loses its entire purpose for existing.

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vor 42 Minuten schrieb DoomFruit:

There's one very large valid reason: I do not want to have to deal with a level 5 lich. Simple as that. Fighting a gigantic bullet sponge which, post Corpus liches, has gotten even spongier than before is not fun. Games are supposed to be fun. The moment it stops being fun, the game loses its entire purpose for existing.

No, there isn’t. The game doesn’t reveal the order of mods to you by getting murmurs. There is no way to do Liches without stabbing them. You have to stab them, there is no way around it.

Also, as I already said, if your Lich gets to 5 you’re trying out mods wrong.

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Il y a 7 heures, Linktoheaven a dit :

I killed 50+ liches/sisters so far and after testing all "meta"and "nonmeta" ways to farm murmur and eliminate your lich i have concluded the following:

If you are new player and cant deal with enemies and lich go public and someone will carry you. For everyone else who is fully capable of soloing it, do it solo or with a friend. It was faster, if its not faster then you are doing it wrong.

Little history:

After i killed my first three liches last year by doing public murmur farms i had enough requem orbs to farm out every word 3-5 times. After that i just equip random combination of mods and go nuts, i always stab lich as soon as it appears. They nerfed them twice in last few months to speed up lich farming but before that it was more or less like this:

1. Stabbing a lich makes him level up and reset anger meter.

2. Getting lich to lvl/rank 5 would stop him from reseting his anger meter.

3. Rank/lvl 5 lich with full anger meter will spawn almost every mission.

What this does is let you choose more missions and try out combinations blindly and you will often enough get lucky.

Now after SoP update lich/sister controls only one planet which kidna sucks imho but whats great is that their anger meter levels up faster. Another thing they changed with this update is that now every party member gets increase anger meter no matter who started the mission and who is stabbing thralls. Yes you heard it right before this update if you did public murmur or joined friend on his lich missions and were not stabbing anyone your lich didnt get angry, no anger no spawn. Which is why prior to this update it was infinitly better to play solo. There were some other under the hood changes they did, i didnt read everything in change log but i am pretty sure this change was mentioned.

Last year before most of this changes i could do a lich in 2-4h while most people (on reddit/forums) said it took them 2-3 days or more, now i can clear it under an hour solo by stabbing every time. It takes more time to get weapon you want than to clear a lich/sister.

With that all said here is what it comes down to, most of the time you will unlock murmur for first word before lich/sister spawns and you want to try it out, put it in first slot and when lich/sister spawns stab it, if its correct great if not you know its not in first slot.

TL:DL You lich/sister will probably not spawn before you know first word and when it spawns there is not a single valid reason not to stab, if you really think it will speed things up avoid stabbing and farm thralls/robodogs if it spawns again in between 1st and 2nd murmur but once you learn 2nd word again not a single valid reason not to stab. Repeat until you know the right combo. Most of my liches/sisters were lvl 3 by the time i defetead them and i always stab. Once again if you take more than 2-3h now after 2-3 big nerfs since it liches were added you are doing something very wrong and public murmur farms are not the solution.

EDIT: I was writing this after night shift at 6am so it a messy wall of text.

EDIT2: If you have questions ill try to answer below.

i can't say nothing more than "ok" since i've nothing to go against that lol but still, getting a level 4 or 5 lich is a pain in the a... with their adaptation and skill/element that can snap you like thanos any time without understanding why and THAT's isn't fun

Il y a 2 heures, Krankbert a dit :

No, there isn’t. The game doesn’t reveal the order of mods to you by getting murmurs. There is no way to do Liches without stabbing them. You have to stab them, there is no way around it.

Also, as I already said, if your Lich gets to 5 you’re trying out mods wrong.

i've got a level 5 just because i forgot once to change the first word...

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb RichardKam:

I am not sure if it is objectively true but after the SoP update, I felt that Lich appearance frequency (or their angry level) is much lower than before. Before the update, every Lich I vanquished/converted was at rank 5, now they cannot survive pass rank 3, i.e. they only appear for like 3-4 times before I got the correct sequence out of murmur farming. 

It's because you reveal the mods earlier, thus get more information out of the stabbings, thus kill them easier.

 

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Thaxano:

i've got a level 5 just because i forgot once to change the first word...

Exactly.

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il y a 2 minutes, Krankbert a dit :

It's because you reveal the mods earlier, thus get more information out of the stabbings, thus kill them easier.

 

Exactly.

yeah well end up with a lich level 5 seems to be a too harch punishment for such a small fault

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20 hours ago, Krankbert said:

I suspect Liches aren't that different.

Liches are much slower to figure out their murmor key than sisters.. I hadn't done a Lich in a while, as I focused on getting all the sister weapons first... As I was busting through about a dozen sisters, I was sat there thinking this is pretty fast, a lot better than the original Lich murmor system in terms of pace. I wondered if the Lich system got the same upgrade in pace...

So when it came time to farm for the Kuva Hek, Kuva Zarr... I was in for a bit of rude awakening! Nothing changed! It was still as slow as before plus now you need to do a railjack section at the end similar to the sisters.

I remember seeing a few days ago someone else on the forum making the same complaint.... The Lich system is overall a much slower pace than the sisters

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Skye_Archer:

Liches are much slower to figure out their murmor key than sisters.. I hadn't done a Lich in a while, as I focused on getting all the sister weapons first... As I was busting through about a dozen sisters, I was sat there thinking this is pretty fast, a lot better than the original Lich murmor system in terms of pace. I wondered if the Lich system got the same upgrade in pace...

So when it came time to farm for the Kuva Hek, Kuva Zarr... I was in for a bit of rude awakening! Nothing changed! It was still as slow as before plus now you need to do a railjack section at the end similar to the sisters.

I remember seeing a few days ago someone else on the forum making the same complaint.... The Lich system is overall a much slower pace than the sisters

It is most definitely not as slow as before.

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Op isn't wrong , but with the new changes I rarely see a lich or sister go beyond rank 4 ,

I normally have one requiem unlocked before the link even shows up the first time.

And I stab to check if the requiem is the first one. I also keep oull in second slot and a random one in third.

If successful great , if not then I switch the oull and reqiuem and keep trying.

I have on averge kept my liches at rank 3 using this and completed grind in roughly an hour.

I have noticed the liches almost always appear at the halfway murmur completion point , so I don't see a need to go out of my way to avoid stabbing the lich.

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23 hours ago, Thaxano said:

Do you know:
1) A mission can have 10 thralls?
2) A lich can transform grineer around her into 10 MORE thralls for a total of 20 thralls (maximum) for each missions with a lich in it?

Yes, and do you know that I have never seen a lich spawn those 10 thralls. Players either kill the troops before they get the chance to turn into thralls, or there is not enough left around to turn. What happens is the lich despawns while you were ponching around waiting, and so you end up losing not only the 10 extra thralls, but the 10 bonus murmurs fr the stab as well.

So you might as well stab it, take your time about it and you might get an extra thrall but that's not the priority, and get those guaranteed 10 extra murmurs and the potential drop, and the requiem mod/order knowledge.

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30 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

I just malding over that lich influence doesnt spread anymore, forcing me to play missions I hate hate hate. Why oh why do they have to make it worse.

What you mean they maded it at least x2  faster

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On 2021-07-10 at 8:30 PM, Thaxano said:

2) A lich can transform grineer around her into 10 MORE thralls for a total of 20 thralls (maximum) for each missions with a lich in it?

Uhhhh prove it.

Random numbers are just random numbers.

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Il y a 8 heures, 0_The_F00l a dit :

Op isn't wrong , but with the new changes I rarely see a lich or sister go beyond rank 4 ,

I normally have one requiem unlocked before the link even shows up the first time.

And I stab to check if the requiem is the first one. I also keep oull in second slot and a random one in third.

If successful great , if not then I switch the oull and reqiuem and keep trying.

I have on averge kept my liches at rank 3 using this and completed grind in roughly an hour.

I have noticed the liches almost always appear at the halfway murmur completion point , so I don't see a need to go out of my way to avoid stabbing the lich.

i tried my first sister by doing the popular way, she spawn before i got the first word so i killed her anyway like people said, fail -> level 2
i tried the first word i got in first place, fail -> level 3
i tried the second word in first place, fail -> level 4
i tried the third word in first place and of the two other in second place, fail -> level 5
i got the last word while doing the chase with a oull, my sister was level 5, she could proc on us radiactive and poison, she also can teleport and become invisible, she could regen her life at some point, it was an absolute pain in the ass...


Now that i've tried lich and sister i can say: nyx doesn't strip the armor of a lich but strip the shield AND the armor on a sister
+Mesa really make it harder but if she doesn't attack the sister is imunised to our damage before we could down her... so we still need to use mesa...

 

Il y a 5 heures, f0ba a dit :

Because some people LF Murmur but actually trying to kill lich. “My lich, my rules”

"LF"?
 

 

Il y a 5 heures, Zebiko a dit :

I just malding over that lich influence doesnt spread anymore, forcing me to play missions I hate hate hate. Why oh why do they have to make it worse.

it allow public session to be quicker because people can found each other easier but for solo player yeah it's really bad...
 

 

Il y a 5 heures, sitfesz a dit :

Uhhhh prove it.

Random numbers are just random numbers.

if you don't trust me, you may trust the wiki, i let you read it... otherwise i will not try to convince someone that just don't want to trust me

 





 

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Isn't the kuva lich grind still the same as before?

It's bad game design when you look at it, one player might be done farming murmur and interested in a fast kill, while the other is wanting to farm murmur.

They are working towards exact opposite goals.

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21 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

i tried my first sister by doing the popular way, she spawn before i got the first word so i killed her anyway like people said, fail -> level 2
i tried the first word i got in first place, fail -> level 3
i tried the second word in first place, fail -> level 4
i tried the third word in first place and of the two other in second place, fail -> level 5

Great, and this perfectly explains why nobody care. You can save one lvl with your "strategy".

1. Build Banshee for sonar and rule the meta. 1 minute? 5 minutes? What is this about? Why spend more than 5 sec?

2. Nobody care. You can tell it to randoms and say my name. You can just exile hunter by knoking in his head 3 times. If you type in chat "don't wait me, i will not kill em" you will solve all problems. Sure, you will not gain murmur.

3. Exploiting Lich have nothing to do with the topic. You can kill it after, right? Still you should compare it to a normal mission. You get 10 murmurs for

  • 3 minutes of playing normally
  • 30 sec of lich killing with almost any squad
  • ??? of abusing. Are you sure this is really fast and consistant?
13 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

It's bad game design when you look at it, one player might be done farming murmur and interested in a fast kill, while the other is wanting to farm murmur.

No, it just weak players who invent strategies. Any boss battle strongly depends on your skills and gear.

I have nothing against, but if anything can be "officialy best" it's all about right gear. If you can't kill lvl5 Lich... Well, welcome to a party, somebody will carry you, but pls, at least do not act like you knows everything better.

9 minutes ago, Sazero said:

You're all wrong.
The fastest way to kill a lich is equipping 3 OULL's and using the lich spawn item. izi lvl 1 lich kills.
:)

You are all right, exept one small detail. You can't equip 2 OULL.

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