Numerous Melee Weapon Classes Recieved Undocumented Follow Through Nerfs

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Scythes: 0.6 --> 0.35

Heavy Blades: 0.6 --> 0.4
Polearms: 0.6 --> 0.4
Staves: 0.5 --> 0.4
Whips: 0.5 --> 0.4

Blade & Whips: 0.5 --> 0.45
Dual Swords: 0.5 --> 0.45
Rapier: 0.7 --> 0.45
Tonfas: 0.6 --> 0.45
Two-Handed Nikanas: 0.7 --> 0.45

Glaives: 0.7 --> 0.5
Sword: 0.6 --> 0.5
Sword & Shields: 0.6 --> 0.5

Machetes: 0.7 --> 0.55
Nikanas: 0.7 --> 0.55

Claws: 0.8 --> 0.65
Dual Daggers: 0.8 --> 0.65
Warfans 0.7 --> 0.65

Daggers: 0.9 --> 0.7

Fists: 0.9 --> 0.8
Sparring: 0.9 --> 0.8

None documented. So if you're wondering why your melee isn't doing as much damage to crowds, there's one of the factors.
There's one ray of light though. Hammer follow through went from 0.4 to 0.55

Edit 2: Turns out more classes got nerfed too. The UI doesn't display values to the hundredth's place, so they look like they weren't touched

Edit: Not to say I called it, but I called it 

 

[Spice]

This is so sad.

Can we like and subscribe and document balance changes

[Jivy]

:(

[Sovyul]

why do it if someone else will do it for free

[Surbusken]

Glaves were also given a "fail window" on charged attack, that wasn't mentioned.

There was no way of performing a failed throw before, even if you wanted to. Now you will end up performing failed attacks during critical moments in fights.

 

Just in terms of smooth gameplay and fun mechanics, it's critically awful.

Whatever else is true, the game must perform correct actions and animations by key pressing.

Like if you suddenly started doing a roll randomly while trying to jump, I mean that's game breaking.

Would you enjoy a shotgun or whatever that missfires or jams up in fights?

Saddest part is all the work they put into adding mods to glaives and reworking them, only to ruin them again, with a stealth nerf on top of a damage nerf - and most hilarious of all glaives are still hitting for millions of damage, totally meaningless, totally pointless, just ruining gameplay for no reason.

It's just so pointless.

[(NSW)Dangruff]

Gunblades really are the alligators of warframe arsenal. So many nerf updates,  yet they've remained largely untouched.

[Yamazuki]

41 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Just like how they didn't announce how Corpus Liches react to damage.

Or Deimos enemies being immune to Viral on top of Scaling DR.

Lephantis Damage caps.

If players do too much damage for DE to balance around, just smash the bees nest all at once and stop skirting around prodding it with a stick because it will just cause more ill will in the long run.

Sisters got insane damage reduction because during "testing" [what ever testing to them means...] Voidrig would one shot them... since keep in mind, you can use Necramechs in Railjack missions, and the ranged variant deals obscene amounts of damage. So... despite this patch being partly dedicated to nerfing melee weapons, they couldn't be bothered to nerf something that admitted to being insanely over powered.... instead, they needed to balance an enemy with their damage in mind. Of course, depending on loadout, they still die quickly, and looks like the Necramech still burns through them quickly anyways.

 

Examples like this are why I find it to be a complete joke when people support any silly balance changes DE makes. They don't care about balancing the game, they just make changes based on what specific people whine about. If certain people didn't complain about melee, there never would have been any changes. If it weren't for SP, Khora would have never gotten any attempted changes. The aoe self damage only got changed due to Bramma causing complaints, which then led to it [Bram] being nerfed due to complaints and insanely high usage. It goes on.

[(NSW)notyetawizard]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Polearms: 0.6 --> 0.4

Hey, uh, 0.6 what to 0.4 ... what? What are these numbers? What are the units? What stat do they apply to ..?

I thought invigorations were just for frames 😅

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)notyetawizard said:

Hey, uh, 0.6 what to 0.4 ... what? What are these numbers? What are the units? What stat do they apply to ..?

I thought invigorations were just for frames 😅

The values are multipliers on damage done to consecutive enemies hit in a single swing. Low value is bad, high value is good.
To quote the wiki:

Quote

Each melee weapon has a Follow Through statistic associated with it that tells what proportion of damage is dealt to successive targets in a single strike. In general, if a single strike hits multiple targets, the amount of damage each target will receive will be:

Proportion of weapon damage = FT^{(n - 1)}

Where n is the order of when an enemy is hit, and FT is the amount of follow-through for the weapon.

For example, Skana has a follow through stat of 0.6 (FT = 0.6). If a single strike of Skana hits three targets, the first target to be hit (n = 1) will be dealt 0.6^{(1 - 1)} = 100% of the total damage, the second to be hit (n = 2) will be dealt 0.6^{(2 - 1)} = 60% of the total damage, and the third (n = 3) will be dealt 0.6^{(3 - 1)} = 36% of the total damage.

 

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)notyetawizard said:

Hey, uh, 0.6 what to 0.4 ... what? What are these numbers? What are the units? What stat do they apply to ..?

I thought invigorations were just for frames 😅

It's the percentage of damage a melee weapon will do after passing through a target.

When you swing your sword, the first enemy it hits will take 100% of your weapon damage. The second will take 60%, but it's been nerfed to 40%.

[Surbusken]

11 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Sisters got insane damage reduction because during "testing" [what ever testing to them means...] Voidrig would one shot them... since keep in mind, you can use Necramechs in Railjack missions, and the ranged variant deals obscene amounts of damage. So... despite this patch being partly dedicated to nerfing melee weapons, they couldn't be bothered to nerf something that admitted to being insanely over powered.... instead, they needed to balance an enemy with their damage in mind. Of course, depending on loadout, they still die quickly, and looks like the Necramech still burns through them quickly anyways.

 

Examples like this are why I find it to be a complete joke when people support any silly balance changes DE makes. They don't care about balancing the game, they just make changes based on what specific people whine about. If certain people didn't complain about melee, there never would have been any changes. If it weren't for SP, Khora would have never gotten any attempted changes. The aoe self damage only got changed due to Bramma causing complaints, which then led to it [Bram] being nerfed due to complaints and insanely high usage. It goes on.

I couldn't agree more, I would just add nerfing depending on what it is time to sell.

Like the kuva nukor gets to be meta right up until the very, exact day it's time to sell corpus lich weapons.

 

Which is why I don't want to hear word one about balance if we aren't talking about improving neglected, obsolete or broken content first.

 

[(NSW)notyetawizard]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

The values are multipliers on damage done to consecutive enemies hit in a single swing. Low value is bad, high value is good.

Ah, yeah that makes more sense. It also makes sense as a stat to nerf. I've been feeling a bit weird about how many guys I can cut down in one swing, haha.  Also weird that it's undocumented, though 🧐

[Yamazuki]

Just now, Surbusken said:

I couldn't agree more, I would just add nerfing depending on what it is time to sell.

Well yes, sales do matter. It's easy to see this when it comes to Warframes. New Warframes or just Primed Warframes get their buffs and qol changes, and Wukong even got an overhaul that made him popular, and then took multiple nerfs long after. One of Gara's long asked visual change as well... Meanwhile, changes to Warframes are uncommon in situations that aren't tied to sales; some even have had bugs or in need of small tweaks, but well, they're not tied to any sale or popular enough to dedicate time to.

DE isn't the only one that does this. League, despite being a competitive pvp game often buffs a champ, and then 1-2 cycles later they get a skin... then sometimes get nerfed 1-2 cycles after that. 

[Uan91]

I think Baruuk's 4th received the same treatment. Today I was doing 46 unit damage to acolytes.

And the rest of the enemies feels like a punching bag, they fly but it takes way too long to kill them.

I use smeeta only.

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Dangruff said:

Gunblades really are the alligators of warframe arsenal. So many nerf updates,  yet they've remained largely untouched.

What you talking about? Sarpa got murdered when 'heavy attacks' were invented. Before then, the combo counter Directly increased your melee damage for all attacks, and was not expended on use. meaning its multi bullet hits let it ramp up continuously and stay up as you shot things.

Its nowhere near as good today as it once was.

-that might have been Before warframe was even on Switch tho.... so fair that you never saw it.

[0_The_F00l]

huh , interesting.

I am a little pissed that its undocumented honestly.

I would have been ok with the nerf itself if it wasn't so shadily added.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

What you talking about? Sarpa got murdered when 'heavy attacks' were invented. Before then, the combo counter Directly increased your melee damage for all attacks, and was not expended on use. meaning its multi bullet hits let it ramp up continuously and stay up as you shot things.

I wonder how ridiculous it was before update as now my not-very-op-config still deals a lot of damage. :D

9 hours ago, Surbusken said:

What was the reddit post that was mentioned about nvigorations? I don't see any posts about it on reddit.

Hmmmm... if your google-fu is strong you will find it :D

[Monolake]

9 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Sisters got insane damage reduction because during "testing" [what ever testing to them means...] Voidrig would one shot them... since keep in mind, you can use Necramechs in Railjack missions, and the ranged variant deals obscene amounts of damage. So... despite this patch being partly dedicated to nerfing melee weapons, they couldn't be bothered to nerf something that admitted to being insanely over powered.... instead, they needed to balance an enemy with their damage in mind. Of course, depending on loadout, they still die quickly, and looks like the Necramech still burns through them quickly anyways.

 

Examples like this are why I find it to be a complete joke when people support any silly balance changes DE makes. They don't care about balancing the game, they just make changes based on what specific people whine about. If certain people didn't complain about melee, there never would have been any changes. If it weren't for SP, Khora would have never gotten any attempted changes. The aoe self damage only got changed due to Bramma causing complaints, which then led to it [Bram] being nerfed due to complaints and insanely high usage. It goes on.

This is uncontrolled powercreep for you, DE never learned anything in 8 years and had run the game into deadend, the players are way too overpowered so now DE resorts to making 'cheating' mobs that just ignore the damage, or put up stupid waitwalls on a timer - because its impossible to create any gameplay with players being too OP. The game is unfixable at this point, especially with the blind easy-mode playerbase who only wants to play with cheats and can never see how it ruins the game.

[Aldain]

And they still (when modded properly) outperform most ranged weapons.

[SneakyErvin]

Wasnt the follow through changes planned though since the first talk of melee nerfs? I recall they mentioned melee speed along with follow through reduction as two of the main things that was planned to change. Though it should have obviously been part of the notes.

edit: And I can also say that I havent noticed it in action. Things still go down like bowling pins hit by a truck.

[rapt0rman]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Wasnt the follow through changes planned though since the first talk of melee nerfs? I recall they mentioned melee speed along with follow through reduction as two of the main things that was planned to change. Though it should have obviously been part of the notes.

edit: And I can also say that I havent noticed it in action. Things still go down like bowling pins hit by a truck.

Hell, I though this was supposed to have happened when they removed the stagger on every hit a few updates ago, but I cant find it in previous notes either.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

31 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Wasnt the follow through changes planned though since the first talk of melee nerfs? I recall they mentioned melee speed along with follow through reduction as two of the main things that was planned to change. Though it should have obviously been part of the notes.

edit: And I can also say that I havent noticed it in action. Things still go down like bowling pins hit by a truck.

I’d love to see a source on that. Because it was never mentioned in any “official” (devstream or forum post) to my knowledge. But hey, if you wanna excuse undocumented changes be my guest.

Meanwhile I have noticed melee nerfs in action. 

[rapt0rman]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

I’d love to see a source on that. Because it was never mentioned in any “official” (devstream or forum post) to my knowledge. But hey, if you wanna excuse undocumented changes be my guest.

He literally directly acknowledging that if something is intended, then there should have been patch notes.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

Just now, rapt0rman said:

He literally directly acknowledging that if something is intended, then there should have been patch notes.

He’s still excusing it by saying that it was mentioned previously at some point.

[rapt0rman]

It was.