Prime lore speculation *MAJOR SPOILERS*

[(PSN)bitraiser]

Hey Tenno.

I've got a bit if lore theory crafting to bounce off you about the nature of Primes.

[SERIOUS SPOILER ALERTS!] 

I think moat of us assume that the Prime form is the original model and that the basic version is a copy... But I had another idea.

What if the basic version is the original, grown from an actual person, as we saw with Umbra. I assume the normal process wouldn't include psychological torture, but... Yeah. This means there's an actual corpse incorporated into each of these Warframes.

So the Orokin take those basic models and clone them, but make changes and strip away any possible "residue" of personality or consciousness. They even prominently feature the same kind of golden cosmetics that we see on the Corrupted. Lore tells us that the fancy gold jewelry is actually control collars. It's how the void pillars (that still haven't been explained) maintain control over their slaves.

As a Tenno this means that when you're wearing a Prime, it's an extension of "you", but if you're jacked into a basic frame there might be someone in there with you.

[SneakyErvin]

Yes and no to your theory. The normal frames we use are things made by the tenno, something that came after the primes, they needed a way to get access to frames at a higher rate which didnt require orokin tech. And some of those we use are based on something else, like a specter in the case of Protea and Revenant, or the remains of an original pre-prime frame in Titania's case (and possibly some others).

But regarding your prime idea, yes I'm of the same idea which is why I think there are no more "living" frames except Umbra, which happened after the first frames and after the primes.

[Reitrix]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes and no to your theory. The normal frames we use are things made by the tenno, something that came after the primes, they needed a way to get access to frames at a higher rate which didnt require orokin tech. And some of those we use are based on something else, like a specter in the case of Protea and Revenant, or the remains of an original pre-prime frame in Titania's case (and possibly some others).

But regarding your prime idea, yes I'm of the same idea which is why I think there are no more "living" frames except Umbra, which happened after the first frames and after the primes.

The Gara Prime trailer literally states that Gara was primed as a reward for her act in slaying the sentient.
Strongly implies that regular Warframes come first with Primes being essentially a medal of honor from the Orokin. Since the original Frame was destroyed in the act of taking down the Sentient, they simply rebuilt Gara and added aesthetic improvements to the Orokin taste. Namely, the gold trim. 

To be Primed is to mark out the Frame as having done something worthy of recognition. 
 

[-Krism-]

Regular frames are for easier production, requiring less resources & less time to make

Primes, are the best of the best, needing rarer materials & more time to polish

[Genitive]

4 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

The Gara Prime trailer literally states that Gara was primed as a reward for her act in slaying the sentient.
Strongly implies that regular Warframes come first with Primes being essentially a medal of honor from the Orokin.

While I agree that non-primes came first, I don't think this is what Gara's prime trailer is about. I'm pretty sure it's about how the person who would become Gara volunteered to be turned into a warframe knowing the truth behind the program. As a reward they made her into a glass-controlling warrior.

[GrayArchon]

32 minutes ago, (PSN)bitraiser said:

I think moat of us assume that the Prime form is the original model and that the basic version is a copy...

Although this is a common enough assumption within the community, it's actually not rooted in any lore. There is no lore about what the Primes are or aren't, except for this sentence on the Prime Access FAQ page – "A Prime Warframe, weapon, Sentinel or accessory represents technology as it was during the height of the Orokin Era." – which doesn't really say anything. We know from quests and cinematics that Prime frames, normal frames, and deluxe frames all existed during the Old War, but how they differed has not been determined.

My personal theory is that normal frames were the standard, fighting alongside the Dax and Grineer in the Old War. Prime frames were used for ceremonial or high-ranking roles like Orokin bodyguards or Lua defence.

32 minutes ago, (PSN)bitraiser said:

What if the basic version is the original, grown from an actual person, as we saw with Umbra. I assume the normal process wouldn't include psychological torture, but... Yeah. This means there's an actual corpse incorporated into each of these Warframes.

So the Orokin take those basic models and clone them, but make changes and strip away any possible "residue" of personality or consciousness.

The Prime trailers for Mirage Prime and Gara Prime discuss actual people being turned into (presumably Prime) warframes directly, so the implication is that they weren't normal warframes first – although that's not exactly spelled out and is somewhat up for interpretation.

32 minutes ago, (PSN)bitraiser said:

They even prominently feature the same kind of golden cosmetics that we see on the Corrupted. Lore tells us that the fancy gold jewelry is actually control collars. It's how the void pillars (that still haven't been explained) maintain control over their slaves.

I think only Frost Prime has gold detailing that resembles the Corrupted. The others just have… gold detailing, which is found on all Orokin devices, technology, and people.

15 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

The Gara Prime trailer literally states that Gara was primed as a reward for her act in slaying the sentient.

This is not true. Gara Prime was created as a reward for volunteering (to become a warframe, probably, although this is not explicit). Gara's sacrifice at the Tower of the Unum happened much later, after the Collapse. The Gara Legend starts out with the sentence "In the dying days of the Orokin, with forums and promenades still blood-wet from Tenno betrayal, a colossal Sentient descended upon ancient Er, falling from distant stars to deliver upon the Orokin a terrible and final ruin."

[SneakyErvin]

27 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

The Gara Prime trailer literally states that Gara was primed as a reward for her act in slaying the sentient.
Strongly implies that regular Warframes come first with Primes being essentially a medal of honor from the Orokin. Since the original Frame was destroyed in the act of taking down the Sentient, they simply rebuilt Gara and added aesthetic improvements to the Orokin taste. Namely, the gold trim. 

To be Primed is to mark out the Frame as having done something worthy of recognition. 
 

Nope, that isnt even chronologically possible since Gara killing the sentient happened at the end of the old war when the tenno were already sweeping the system to find Orokin remnants. No question in my mind though that there were frames prior to the primes, which were the willing and unwilling subjects of the orokin, Gara being a willing one. Those are not the same as the frames we use, which DE has provided info on. They explained that the Tenno use frames based on orokin design, but they arent using orokin technology.

And the tenno didnt get involved until after a first version of frames were made, so those frames cannot be the "tenno" frames we use, since the first would obviously use Orokin tech since they were made by the orokin.

edit: Here, straight from https://www.warframe.com/news/primes-and-prime-access

"Non-Prime Warframes, Weapons and Sentinels are based on Orokin technology, however they are not genuine Orokin articles."

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Someone give @SneakyErvinhis own channel for Warframe Lore discussions. I always learn so much when you talk lore man. And  I always give credit where credit is due. If you had your own twitch I’d sub for sure just to hang out and listen to lore discussions. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the key difference between Orokin and Tenno technology - both weapons and frames - is that Orokin stuff was made during the Empire, when resources were abundant, and the Orokin were around to care about how things looked. if it wasn't dripping in gold, they didn't want to know about it.

Tenno Tech is just simplified Orokin tech that is made in a more practical way using inferior but more readily available materials: after the collapse weapon factories would not have the resources they used to have, so had to adjust weapons and make sure they worked as well as they could: no chance to put gold and stuff on them, what matters is that they work; you can see real life examples of this with "last-ditch" guns made by Axis nations in WW2, towards the end of the war when their defeat was imminent; they still need guns, but don't have the capacity to make them like they used to. they still work, but are obviously not the same quality as they used to be.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, (PSN)bitraiser said:

I think moat of us assume that the Prime form is the original model and that the basic version is a copy... But I had another idea.

What if the basic version is the original, grown from an actual person, as we saw with Umbra. I assume the normal process wouldn't include psychological torture, but... Yeah. This means there's an actual corpse incorporated into each of these Warframes.

So the Orokin take those basic models and clone them, but make changes and strip away any possible "residue" of personality or consciousness. They even prominently feature the same kind of golden cosmetics that we see on the Corrupted. Lore tells us that the fancy gold jewelry is actually control collars. It's how the void pillars (that still haven't been explained) maintain control over their slaves.

This has been my read of the lore ever since Silver Grove -- since we see, for ourselves, that Titania Not-Prime is older than Titania Prime. This is reinforced with Ivara's Leverian, where we see Frames had to prove themselves before being accepted, and once again the frame in question is a Not Prime. If possible I would love to ask the devs about it during that "ask the devs" panel at Tennocon

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

This has been my read of the lore ever since Silver Grove -- since we see, for ourselves, that Titania Not-Prime is older than Titania Prime. This is reinforced with Ivara's Leverian, where we see Frames had to prove themselves before being accepted, and once again the frame in question is a Not Prime. If possible I would love to ask the devs about it during that "ask the devs" panel at Tennocon

The main problem is that people think there are only two versions. Which isnt correct.

You have "proto" (quest Titania, Laverian Ivara and some others), Primes and the "regular" tenno frames we all use, that are based on both of the prior types and its own type depending on how we (the specific tenno in the story) obtained theirs. He/she obtains his Titania through digging out the old dead proto Titania that followed her creator to earth and killed a bunch of dax and eventually died to them in order to protect her creator. Just as the Ivara in the Laverian isnt the regular Ivara we use, it is either a prime or a proto since few people in Sol actually know what frames really are, so they speak of them as individuals.

Then you have Valkyr, where the protagonist of the story obtains his through another tenno Valkyr that got captured by Alad. Many think that specific Valkyr is the very first, which would be utterly stupid and chronologically nearly impossible since the Alad incident happens in this era where our Tenno is about to awake. Something that takes place long after the fall of the empire so even longer after the first incarnation of Warframes. Which makes it more probable it is a tenno with a Valkyr in a custom skin that has his/her Valkyr captured on a mission.

People just need to think of it like this. Not everything needs to be obtained in the same way or follow the exact same order.. We dont actually know what the "original" frame is in any of the quests we do, because all the info comes from normal people that dont have a clue what a frame really is or if there are different frame models. Even the antagonists in WF are clueless about it in 99% of the cases. We dont know if Gara, Rev, Octavia and others in the stories are prime or tenno-frames really, we just know that we end up with a knock-off version in the end. Just as we dont know if frames in stories like Inaros are proto, primes or tenno, or even several different versions at different points in time.

[NocheLuz]

It is my understanding that the Primed warframes don't have to be in an Orokin era. Unless they are said so... or they do exist, just didn't say in the lore. Ex. Sevagoth that clearly a remnant from the Orokin era (or the Fallen Orokin era...). Although it is possible that the Sevagoth we recovered in the quest isn't the original one and there is a Primed version somewhere (or the Primed version is lost and destroyed). It is highly implied that there are other versions before the Primed version, which most people called proto-prime (or Prototype). This is possible since Rhino Prime and Vitruvian stated that there are versions of the golems (warframes) that they cannot control (presumably, not Primed) long before the Tenno was born.

It may be possible to recreate the Warframes using Orokin Technology even after the downfall of the Orokin Empire... I just want to say that...

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

People just need to think of it like this. Not everything needs to be obtained in the same way or follow the exact same order.. We dont actually know what the "original" frame is in any of the quests we do, because all the info comes from normal people that dont have a clue what a frame really is or if there are different frame models. Even the antagonists in WF are clueless about it in 99% of the cases. We dont know if Gara, Rev, Octavia and others in the stories are prime or tenno-frames really, we just know that we end up with a knock-off version in the end. Just as we dont know if frames in stories like Inaros are proto, primes or tenno, or even several different versions at different points in time.

I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the Cinematic Trailer showing that Warframes are immune to decomposition. Thus we can say for certainty that (to borrow your terminology) "Proto Titania" was most certainly not Titania Prime

[SneakyErvin]

52 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the Cinematic Trailer showing that Warframes are immune to decomposition. Thus we can say for certainty that (to borrow your terminology) "Proto Titania" was most certainly not Titania Prime

Agreed. Titania is very much not a prime. It's just the others, like Rev, Gara and Octavia, since they could very well have been primes controlled by a tenno, or a tenno frame since most of it is at the end of the old war or after it. They are for certain not the originals, since they are long dead and gone by the time the story in those quests take place.

Then obviously there are places where we know it isnt a frame at all that is involved in the story, like with Protea, which is a specter created by Parvos. Though we do fight a specter in the Rev quest too, but we got no info regarding how it turned into a specter, no one created it atleast, so it is likely the frame gone automaton due to a missing/dead Tenno and the frame instead being juiced up on whatever energy made the eidolon come to "life".

edit: I wish DE would add more generic warframe lore in the Laverian. Regarding how many types there were, how many years passed between the different versions and so on. And stuff like how the Orokin managed to overcome the first frames that went crazy and exactly what they did to them. It sucks having to rely on Ballas a.k.a Mr. Vague.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Gonna jump in here with the very basic response:

The only difference between a Prime frame and a non-Prime frame is the Era they're constructed.

We have seen in-game proof that the appearance of a Warframe can be changed to the Deluxe version, so appearance is not an issue. The sparkly, golden filligree is something we can take off as we like, so why wouldn't the Orokin be able to do that.

What the basic difference is the method used to make it, and the technology used for that method.

Orokin era tech and methods create a Prime. Current era and tech do not.

We also know that Relics are quantum-entangled storage, meaning that through quantum-nonsense the 'blueprints' we pull out of them are literally the original version. Duplicated by however many times you get the same one in the current time, but literally the original, every single one of them. This is what allows us to create a Prime, by pulling the actual blueprints out of time to recreate them.

It explains absolutely everything.

We scan a created warframe, like Titania, in the Silver Grove, and our current era tech shows us how to replicate it. It's not advanced enough to detect exactly what methods were used, it just synthesises the actual functions and gives us a way to do that. Same with Mirage, Nidus, Revenant, Sevagoth, all of the frames that we find in any situation are scanned into our current era tech.

So every frame, no matter what it looked like, if it was created in the Orokin Era, using Orokin methods and technology, it was a Prime. The first one made? Prime. The five-thousandth one made? Prime.

We can't make Primes in the current era without the exact blueprints from Relics. So, not Primes.

That's it. That's the entire, sum total, difference between a Prime and a non-Prime.

Technically speaking? Umbra is a Prime. He was made by Ballas during the Orokin Era, so he's a Prime. The important thing to note is that Umbra's method really isn't any different to the original method, but by the time-line he could not have been before the others. He was one of the last, if not the last, Warframe made by Ballas due to him being directly created as a result of the Dax finding out Ballas' plan to betray and defect from the Orokin with all of the information on how to build a Warframe and what the Tenno are. Considering the same quest shows that the Tenno were discovered long after the first Warframes were created, tested and decommissioned, this could not be before that point.

On the other hand? We also have the Mirage Prime trailer, with Ballas' quotes there, talking about how Mirage changed Ballas' design for the Warframe she would become. Her mental differences made her laugh 'in the vice', not scream from the pain, and the result was twisted. So we know that Warframes, in their creation, were from the individuals, and that strong-minded individuals that could twist the designs of Ballas' Warframes definitely existed besides Umbra.

Umbra technically isn't even unique beyond the way that Ballas took what he observed about the other frames he created, and then did it deliberately to Umbra as a punishment. The way that deliberate twist made him more self-aware than the others.

But that's really it.

Orokin made it? Prime. We make it? Not Prime, unless we use the Relics to mimic Orokin era methods.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Gonna jump in here with the very basic response:

The only difference between a Prime frame and a non-Prime frame is the Era they're constructed.

We have seen in-game proof that the appearance of a Warframe can be changed to the Deluxe version, so appearance is not an issue. The sparkly, golden filligree is something we can take off as we like, so why wouldn't the Orokin be able to do that.

What the basic difference is the method used to make it, and the technology used for that method.

Orokin era tech and methods create a Prime. Current era and tech do not.

We also know that Relics are quantum-entangled storage, meaning that through quantum-nonsense the 'blueprints' we pull out of them are literally the original version. Duplicated by however many times you get the same one in the current time, but literally the original, every single one of them. This is what allows us to create a Prime, by pulling the actual blueprints out of time to recreate them.

It explains absolutely everything.

We scan a created warframe, like Titania, in the Silver Grove, and our current era tech shows us how to replicate it. It's not advanced enough to detect exactly what methods were used, it just synthesises the actual functions and gives us a way to do that. Same with Mirage, Nidus, Revenant, Sevagoth, all of the frames that we find in any situation are scanned into our current era tech.

So every frame, no matter what it looked like, if it was created in the Orokin Era, using Orokin methods and technology, it was a Prime. The first one made? Prime. The five-thousandth one made? Prime.

We can't make Primes in the current era without the exact blueprints from Relics. So, not Primes.

That's it. That's the entire, sum total, difference between a Prime and a non-Prime.

Technically speaking? Umbra is a Prime. He was made by Ballas during the Orokin Era, so he's a Prime. The important thing to note is that Umbra's method really isn't any different to the original method, but by the time-line he could not have been before the others. He was one of the last, if not the last, Warframe made by Ballas due to him being directly created as a result of the Dax finding out Ballas' plan to betray and defect from the Orokin with all of the information on how to build a Warframe and what the Tenno are. Considering the same quest shows that the Tenno were discovered long after the first Warframes were created, tested and decommissioned, this could not be before that point.

On the other hand? We also have the Mirage Prime trailer, with Ballas' quotes there, talking about how Mirage changed Ballas' design for the Warframe she would become. Her mental differences made her laugh 'in the vice', not scream from the pain, and the result was twisted. So we know that Warframes, in their creation, were from the individuals, and that strong-minded individuals that could twist the designs of Ballas' Warframes definitely existed besides Umbra.

Umbra technically isn't even unique beyond the way that Ballas took what he observed about the other frames he created, and then did it deliberately to Umbra as a punishment. The way that deliberate twist made him more self-aware than the others.

But that's really it.

Orokin made it? Prime. We make it? Not Prime, unless we use the Relics to mimic Orokin era methods.

Best way to describe it^.

Standard construction is about what’s available in this current dark age.

Primes come from a bygone age of superior tech.

 

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

On 2021-07-12 at 3:42 PM, (PSN)bitraiser said:

Hey Tenno.

I've got a bit if lore theory crafting to bounce off you about the nature of Primes.

[SERIOUS SPOILER ALERTS!] 

I think moat of us assume that the Prime form is the original model and that the basic version is a copy... But I had another idea.

What if the basic version is the original, grown from an actual person, as we saw with Umbra. I assume the normal process wouldn't include psychological torture, but... Yeah. This means there's an actual corpse incorporated into each of these Warframes.

So the Orokin take those basic models and clone them, but make changes and strip away any possible "residue" of personality or consciousness. They even prominently feature the same kind of golden cosmetics that we see on the Corrupted. Lore tells us that the fancy gold jewelry is actually control collars. It's how the void pillars (that still haven't been explained) maintain control over their slaves.

As a Tenno this means that when you're wearing a Prime, it's an extension of "you", but if you're jacked into a basic frame there might be someone in there with you.

The normal warframes are like our version of a Chinese knock off of the original prime design. Problem with the Nero is that we don’t remember/know How to create prime items hence why we need to make them from old recovered blueprints. Umbra is actually a prime as in the Chinese build where he first came out he is referred to Excalibur umbra prime. Not to mention he’s his own class of warframe.

On 2021-07-12 at 3:59 PM, Reitrix said:

The Gara Prime trailer literally states that Gara was primed as a reward for her act in slaying the sentient.
Strongly implies that regular Warframes come first with Primes being essentially a medal of honor from the Orokin. Since the original Frame was destroyed in the act of taking down the Sentient, they simply rebuilt Gara and added aesthetic improvements to the Orokin taste. Namely, the gold trim. 

To be Primed is to mark out the Frame as having done something worthy of recognition. 
 

Wrong, Gara was made into gara prime first as a reward for willing volunteering to become a warframe despite knowing the truth of the initiative then she killed the sentient. First came prime then came the cheap Tenno knockoffs

On 2021-07-12 at 4:11 PM, Genitive said:

While I agree that non-primes came first, I don't think this is what Gara's prime trailer is about. I'm pretty sure it's about how the person who would become Gara volunteered to be turned into a warframe knowing the truth behind the program. As a reward they made her into a glass-controlling warrior.

Ding ding ding we have a winner

[GrayArchon]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Though we do fight a specter in the Rev quest too, but we got no info regarding how it turned into a specter, no one created it atleast, so it is likely the frame gone automaton due to a missing/dead Tenno and the frame instead being juiced up on whatever energy made the eidolon come to "life".

The quest implies that the Eidolon's consciousness, which is still floating around somehow, although not inhabiting the Eidolon fragments themselves, got a hold of Revenant (partly through his own negligence).

Nakak: "Hold on, this isn’t some trapped warframe spirit! He’s become a mask for some Eidolon! We can’t let it rebuild itself! Tenno, you need to destroy it!"

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

We have seen in-game proof that the appearance of a Warframe can be changed to the Deluxe version

Pardon? When do we see warframes change their skins? We've seen standard frames, Prime frames, and deluxe frames, but there's no indication you can swap between them.

[TARINunit9]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Agreed. Titania is very much not a prime. It's just the others, like Rev, Gara and Octavia, since they could very well have been primes controlled by a tenno, or a tenno frame since most of it is at the end of the old war or after it. They are for certain not the originals, since they are long dead and gone by the time the story in those quests take place.

Then obviously there are places where we know it isnt a frame at all that is involved in the story, like with Protea, which is a specter created by Parvos. Though we do fight a specter in the Rev quest too, but we got no info regarding how it turned into a specter, no one created it atleast, so it is likely the frame gone automaton due to a missing/dead Tenno and the frame instead being juiced up on whatever energy made the eidolon come to "life".

edit: I wish DE would add more generic warframe lore in the Laverian. Regarding how many types there were, how many years passed between the different versions and so on. And stuff like how the Orokin managed to overcome the first frames that went crazy and exactly what they did to them. It sucks having to rely on Ballas a.k.a Mr. Vague.

OK that makes sense for Revenant (originally some "warden" frame), Gara (Old War had been over for years), and Octavia (doesn't even show up in her quest, but a replica Mandachord does), but I disagree with you on Protea and Titania.

Protea is easy: the Orokin want Parvos dead but he just won't die, so they pretend to accept him as a business partner. When they present him with a warframe as a "gift" it's very deliberately a not-Prime, as a passive-aggressive jab. Parvos ends up not caring and loves her anyway

Titania is the one where I just have to put my foot down and take what the characters say literally: Silvana made Titania Not-Prime. She identifies the Not-Prime buried in her roots as her daughter, and thus that one, the Not-Prime, is the very first Titania ever, predating the Titania Prime. No argument to the contrary has ever convinced me

[NocheLuz]

10 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Technically speaking? Umbra is a Prime. He was made by Ballas during the Orokin Era, so he's a Prime. The important thing to note is that Umbra's method really isn't any different to the original method, but by the time-line he could not have been before the others. He was one of the last, if not the last, Warframe made by Ballas due to him being directly created as a result of the Dax finding out Ballas' plan to betray and defect from the Orokin with all of the information on how to build a Warframe and what the Tenno are. Considering the same quest shows that the Tenno were discovered long after the first Warframes were created, tested and decommissioned, this could not be before that point.

In fact, when the Excalibur Umbra arrived at the Global server. The Orokin Void Death Orbs can replenish his energy just like Primed Warframe did... before DE decided 'Nope' and take out this feature.

So, yeah... He is supposed to be Primed Warframe.

[Sanktai]

It's explicitly shown in several scenes in game, that primes and non-primes existed at the same time, presumably even before the fall of the Orokin. I go with the theory that the primes are simply exceptional variants of the normal frames, given an "Orokin blessing" of sorts (Ie, upgraded and given more aesthetically pleasing appearances). 

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK that makes sense for Revenant (originally some "warden" frame), Gara (Old War had been over for years), and Octavia (doesn't even show up in her quest, but a replica Mandachord does), but I disagree with you on Protea and Titania.

Protea is easy: the Orokin want Parvos dead but he just won't die, so they pretend to accept him as a business partner. When they present him with a warframe as a "gift" it's very deliberately a not-Prime, as a passive-aggressive jab. Parvos ends up not caring and loves her anyway

Titania is the one where I just have to put my foot down and take what the characters say literally: Silvana made Titania Not-Prime. She identifies the Not-Prime buried in her roots as her daughter, and thus that one, the Not-Prime, is the very first Titania ever, predating the Titania Prime. No argument to the contrary has ever convinced me

You are likely partly right regarding Protea, we still dont know what original form Protea had though since what is in the story is just a specter, that is the whole point of the story, to introduce us to Parvos, the grandfather of specter technology. So Parvos has at one point in time cloned (or whatever it is they do to make specters) the Protea that was sent to him.

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with regarding Titania. Like I said, she is a "proto", which came before the primes.

9 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

The quest implies that the Eidolon's consciousness, which is still floating around somehow, although not inhabiting the Eidolon fragments themselves, got a hold of Revenant (partly through his own negligence).

Nakak: "Hold on, this isn’t some trapped warframe spirit! He’s become a mask for some Eidolon! We can’t let it rebuild itself! Tenno, you need to destroy it!"

Yeah, there is something, but we dont know what actually caused it to linger in the way it did, bringing core behavior to the eidolon and Rev. Or what allowed it to actually "infect" a Warframe (anti-sentient warmachines). There is no other sentient that has resulted in the same after death effect. Likely it has something to do with whatever was part of the Unum bomb Gara used.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2021-07-14 at 2:39 AM, GrayArchon said:

Pardon? When do we see warframes change their skins? We've seen standard frames, Prime frames, and deluxe frames, but there's no indication you can swap between them.

That's exactly it, we've seen the Deluxe skins appear as Specters we fight in the game, The Silver Grove specters. They have identical abilities, the exact same functions as a regular version or a Prime version. In the comics we see that some specific frames that are there in the Orokin era have the same appearance as the ones we create today, while other comics and Lore bites in the Codex show or describe the ones with the gold filigree, meaning that both types existed back then too.

Our own Arsenal customises Prime frames to look like Regular frames, and Deluxe frames freely. That would normally come off as just personal customisation in other games, except we see those customisations exist separately from us too, you see?

Don't take my comment of 'change' to mean that we literally see them transform to one or the other, although it does explain what we're doing in the Arsenal with our customisation. Warframes are Infested, the metal of their armour is literally grown (according to the Vitruvian), not something attached manually, so sculpting their outer appearance is as easy as the Helminth customises their inner functions.

There is no difference between them. Appearance doesn't make a Prime or a regular or a Deluxe any different in terms of functionality.

All that makes a frame a Prime is whether it has the bonus base stats. Which are only achieved by mimicking the Orokin Era methods using Relic-claimed parts and blueprints.

On 2021-07-14 at 5:22 AM, NocheLuz said:

In fact, when the Excalibur Umbra arrived at the Global server. The Orokin Void Death Orbs can replenish his energy just like Primed Warframe did... before DE decided 'Nope' and take out this feature.

I can actually explain that one, but it's nothing to do with Lore.

It's because of the grand Chinese release. At that time they had an exclusive Founder's Pack for that release, the same as Excal Prime was part of the original Founders Pack. That pack contained 'Excalibur Umbra Prime', which definitely is a Prime and gets all the perks of being one.

DE has kept their contract on the items from the Founder's Packs being completely exclusive, which is rare and a little impressive in these days of 'timed exclusive' functions for games.

When we got Umbra ourselves, not a single thing was changed from the Stats or the functions he had. Except that word 'Prime' in the name, meaning that he isn't supposed to get the benefits of a Prime... but only because if he did, the Excal Umbra Prime would no longer be Chinese Founders Pack exclusive.

As I've said, DE does keep their exclusivity contracts, so... yeah. We don't get the Death Orb boost for being a Prime, because the 'prime' version is exclusive. And that's the only reason.

Actually, side tangent here:

Spoiler

The working theory about The Sacrifice is that it was originally written to be Stalker. It was supposed to be his story, his anger and madness we quelled and him that we claimed as the 'self aware' frame. But DE saw a chance to keep the Stalker out of things, keep him as a mini-boss, keep him as an enemy that fuels the Acolytes and so on. The chance was simply that they could substitute this other frame that the fanbase had been asking for since the leaks from China showed him off.

It would have made perfect sense after the work DE did with the Second Dream developing him, and the revelations about Transference in The War Within, all setting us up to finally resolve the reason why Stalker hated us so much, why he would work with the Sentients, all of it.

Instead we got given a different character and a 'beautiful corpse' character in Isaah... which didn't quite hit as hard.

Anyway, moving on.

[Kerberos-3]

On 2021-07-12 at 1:52 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Yes and no to your theory. The normal frames we use are things made by the tenno, something that came after the primes, they needed a way to get access to frames at a higher rate which didnt require orokin tech. And some of those we use are based on something else, like a specter in the case of Protea and Revenant, or the remains of an original pre-prime frame in Titania's case (and possibly some others).

But regarding your prime idea, yes I'm of the same idea which is why I think there are no more "living" frames except Umbra, which happened after the first frames and after the primes.

Not exactly. The Orokin made normal Frames too, as we see with stuff like Protea and Sevagoth. My take on things is that Normal frames are mass-production models, made with the absolute minimum in terms of material quality in order to churn out as many Warframes to throw at the front lines as possible, while the Primes are the elite units, made with the best the Orokin could provide and only given to Tenno who proved worthy of it.

[NocheLuz]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I can actually explain that one, but it's nothing to do with Lore.

It's because of the grand Chinese release. At that time they had an exclusive Founder's Pack for that release, the same as Excal Prime was part of the original Founders Pack. That pack contained 'Excalibur Umbra Prime', which definitely is a Prime and gets all the perks of being one.

DE has kept their contract on the items from the Founder's Packs being completely exclusive, which is rare and a little impressive in these days of 'timed exclusive' functions for games.

When we got Umbra ourselves, not a single thing was changed from the Stats or the functions he had. Except that word 'Prime' in the name, meaning that he isn't supposed to get the benefits of a Prime... but only because if he did, the Excal Umbra Prime would no longer be Chinese Founders Pack exclusive.

As I've said, DE does keep their exclusivity contracts, so... yeah. We don't get the Death Orb boost for being a Prime, because the 'prime' version is exclusive. And that's the only reason.

Oh... shoot... Well... I do think that way but I still think he should be Primed...

--------

Ok, back to the topic. As I said earlier, the first frames for each series don't have to be Primed warframes. There is someone who said that since it's made in the Orokin era, it should be Primed. But it didn't mean that it was made with Orokin technology. Why? Well... just because it is made within the renaissance era didn't mean that all art items in that era are meant to be a classic renaissance.

Not to mention the golems (proto-warframe, proto-prime, or whatever), I don't think they are Primed. I think Orokin won't just give out its technology just to anyone. Even with their Dax soldiers. That is why even Grineer and Corpus do exist in that era, all the Orokin technology still lose and valuable to them. If Orokin gave out its technology to anyone, it should still be around within Grineer or Corpus today. But no... Grineer builds their own tech while Corpus still researches Orokin tech and replicates it.