Prime lore speculation *MAJOR SPOILERS*

[NocheLuz]

34 minutes ago, Brinstar7777 said:

Not necessarily. They could have decided to Prime her solely because she volunteered. It's very possible Gara prime could have been the first warframe of the 'gara' make.

You do know that Warframe is making from people right? The Gara is the first of her Gara line. She volunteered to be Gara. She is the first Gara and they Primed them solely on the fact that they want to honor the one who volunteered. Basically, they do NOT intend to build the Primed version but do so anyway to honor her. Presumably, they do that to all the warframe they researched. So the first Gara is the Primed version, but what about another warframe? Why did they say they would Primed Gara to honor her? Don't they Prime every first warframe? This tells us more than what you think.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Sanktai said:

Sevagoth was lost to a void storm. The Grineer and Corpus have a hard time even gaining a foothold in Orokin towers, let alone in a spatial void. It's entirely possible that the Tenno, out of fear for his/her life, binded themselves to their frame. Remember, Sevagoths frame was lost to the void, while his astral self was roaming trying to reunite. This could mean Sevagoth was instinctually looking for his other self, or the Tenno was controlling the ghost to try to locate hisself these are both possibilities. 

 

Also there is no evidence that non-primed variants popped up later. We see multiple times, non-primed variants fighting against sentients alongside primed warframes. And there are several instances of the Orokin delegating non-primed frames to primed status (like once again, Gara and Ivara). 

 

 

This.

Yes it is possible, but the timeline doesnt support it, mostly since it was according to Cy missing since the old war. That means it depends on what Cy sees as the old war (if it includes the uprising or not), if it includes the uprising it can be a normal frame with an operator, if not it is something else since the orokin didnt make the normal frames i.e the types we get from quests, bosses etc.

Those arent positively the normal frames we see though, they may very well be the first frames aswell that just look more regular than primes. DE have specifically stated in info regarding primes that the normal weaker frames are not authentic orokin creations. That means the orokin didnt make them, since if they were they'd be authentic orokin creation even if they are weaker and different from primes. The only exception is Nova, which according to the lore was created by a tenno council specifically, so it is possible her normal frame was the first Nova prior to the frame.

The evidence for them popping up later is in the fleeting DE provided lore regarding primes that can be found on the offical homepage. Even if it isnt in-game it still beats any head canon because it comes from the source. And where do you get the idea from that Gara was delegated prime status specifically for some reason? Her sacrifice happened after the actual war when the Orokin were being chased down. She blew herself up to protect the free people of Cetus against the lingering sentient. And Ivara is likely an original, not a normal frame. Most people of Sol have no idea there are even different frame type or that frames are even controlled by a child-demon. So whatever comes from Laverian is only based on half knowledge. Just as Ordis, who was a high ranking Orokin at a time, have no idea that there are frames who had emotions as we can hear from his Vitruvian version in the Sacrifice when he is surprised that Umbra has a mind and temper of its own.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, NocheLuz said:

If what Orokin supply Tenno is all Primed. Then why the frames that stay behind protecting them are not Primed? I refer to the Stalker, he should have stayed behind while the Tenno are all going out the fight the Old War. He, who should have been live through the Old War, the Tenno rebellion, and the present day. Have not been Primed. He, who stays with the Orokin all the time, HAD NOT BEEN PRIMED!! Why? It may be because the resources are low or the original production line of the Stalker isn't really been Primed.

But yes, the 'normal' warframe isn't the genuine Orokin technology. It is possible that they do build a handful or Primed after they complete the research on each warframe. Then send out the blueprint for the Tenno to scavage the resources and build them on their own. This is all based on after the Old War and the Fallen of the Orokin Empire. The Tenno, who do not have the Warframe Technology, can still pump out normal Warframe. It is possible that Tenno's research on how to make the Warframe themselves (this is including the Transference bolt) base on the finished product they have got. But the time frame after the Old War doesn't really allow that. As the Tenno went back to sleep not that long after the fall of the Orokin Empire. As state in the Lotus and Natah memories. Also, base on the old planning of Hunhow to destroy all Tenno shortly after the fall of the Orokin.

The Stalker is something else, just as he says in his own entry. It is possible he and some others are even living frames that never went insane, fully loyal to the orokin. So no reason to ever prime them in a new version. Which would explain how he can be infused with sentient parts, since he doesnt fume with void energy in the same way as a tenno controlled frame.

That would very likely not happen given the relationship/history between Orokin and Tenno. Very doubtful the Orokin would give them free hands to be able to build their own weaponry. We actually dont know how shortly after the old war the tenno went to sleep, or how many of them did.

[NocheLuz]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

The Stalker is something else, just as he says in his own entry. It is possible he and some others are even living frames that never went insane, fully loyal to the orokin. So no reason to ever prime them in a new version. Which would explain how he can be infused with sentient parts, since he doesnt fume with void energy in the same way as a tenno controlled frame.

That would very likely not happen given the relationship/history between Orokin and Tenno. Very doubtful the Orokin would give them free hands to be able to build their own weaponry. We actually dont know how shortly after the old war the tenno went to sleep, or how many of them did.

Well, that is contradictory in itself. The Stalker is also a Warframe why not Primed them? Didn't the Orokin build all the Warframe in the Old War? Then it should be all Primed. If what you told us is true, then not all Warframe build by the Orokin is Primed. Except there are others who build and research Warframe other than the Orokin... namely... Tenno council. So, the Tenno council is already there when the Old War was still happening and they are the ones who research and build normal Warframe based on Orokin research.

I also agree with you on how 'shortly' the time between the downfall of the Orokin empire and Tenno going to sleep. We needed more lore!! But if we look at the current opening cinematic, we can assume that after the fall of Orokin almost all of the Tenno went to sleep. Only some of them remain and sweep out the remaining of the Orokin/Sentient and back to sleep themselves. But based on lore that remains on people. It should be kinda long before they went back to sleep.

[Atsia]

7 hours ago, Sanktai said:

 

That would make sense if it weren't for frames such as Gara, and Ivara, which are explicitly stated to have gained their primed status, as in the started off as normal frames. Also, Excalibur is stated to be the first warframe period, not Excalibur Prime, and not Excalibur Umbra. Just normal old Excalibur. 

No, Ivara Leverian says nothing about being Primed or not, and others have already said about Gara.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Well, that is contradictory in itself. The Stalker is also a Warframe why not Primed them? Didn't the Orokin build all the Warframe in the Old War? Then it should be all Primed. If what you told us is true, then not all Warframe build by the Orokin is Primed. Except there are others who build and research Warframe other than the Orokin... namely... Tenno council. So, the Tenno council is already there when the Old War was still happening and they are the ones who research and build normal Warframe based on Orokin research.

I also agree with you on how 'shortly' the time between the downfall of the Orokin empire and Tenno going to sleep. We needed more lore!! But if we look at the current opening cinematic, we can assume that after the fall of Orokin almost all of the Tenno went to sleep. Only some of them remain and sweep out the remaining of the Orokin/Sentient and back to sleep themselves. But based on lore that remains on people. It should be kinda long before they went back to sleep.

No, it isnt positive that all frames got Primed. It is positive that all frames we get our hands on have a prime. Stalker is a "low guardian" according to himself aswell, which means he wasnt a battlefield frame. And yes, there are others that build frames, but not at the time of the old war. There are the original frames and there are the primes, then there is Nova that gets designed based on the Tenno council. Her creation takes place after the original frames, so she is either directly created as a prime, or has a simpler version prototype at first. A council doesnt build, they just decide. It is up to the Orokin to listen and do or dont.

You need to dig alot deeper than the cinematic. A 6 minute cinematic involving 3 frames doesnt tell alot, it is jsut a glimpse of one single place in all of Sol. Grendel's Laverian sheds further light on it all, and what happens in that entry happens all across the system after the Terminus butchering. Then there is Sands of Inaros which covers several different eras. Some perhaps with an original frame and then later on with one piloted by a tenno.

[Sanktai]

2 hours ago, Atsia said:

No, Ivara Leverian says nothing about being Primed or not, and others have already said about Gara.

It is heavily implied that her defeating the Myrmidon led to her being primed. 

And with Gara, it's literally said that she was rewarded with her prime status for her boldness. 

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, Sanktai said:

It is heavily implied that her defeating the Myrmidon led to her being primed. 

And with Gara, it's literally said that she was rewarded with her prime status for her boldness. 

It really doesn't. All her leverian says is you'll be remembered. There no connection to being a prime at all.

And the others have already said that the Prime Trailer was about turning into a Waframe in general. She wouldn't have been able to volunteer in the first place if Gara was already a frame.

[NocheLuz]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, it isnt positive that all frames got Primed. It is positive that all frames we get our hands on have a prime. Stalker is a "low guardian" according to himself aswell, which means he wasnt a battlefield frame. And yes, there are others that build frames, but not at the time of the old war. There are the original frames and there are the primes, then there is Nova that gets designed based on the Tenno council. Her creation takes place after the original frames, so she is either directly created as a prime, or has a simpler version prototype at first. A council doesnt build, they just decide. It is up to the Orokin to listen and do or dont.

You need to dig alot deeper than the cinematic. A 6 minute cinematic involving 3 frames doesnt tell alot, it is jsut a glimpse of one single place in all of Sol. Grendel's Laverian sheds further light on it all, and what happens in that entry happens all across the system after the Terminus butchering. Then there is Sands of Inaros which covers several different eras. Some perhaps with an original frame and then later on with one piloted by a tenno.

As I said you are contradicting yourself. You said that all Warframe in the Old War was built by Orokin, thus HAD TO BE PRIMED. Except you are double back on that one. Lowly guardian or not, he's still a Warframe. Orokin likes being perfect, isn't it? So if Orokin wasn't built the noral Warframe at the time of the Old War, then who build him? Except Orokin ALSO built normal Warframe at the time of the Old War too. Although, I can't really argue with the logic of Warframe cannot be built and research 'after' the fact that all Orokin technology is lost and almost cannot recover. Because I don't have proof of how long between the downfall of the Orokin and the Tenno gone back to sleep. But it is almost impossible to build a new Warframe except Orokin gave out the blueprint to the Tenno, or the Tenno have a very long time researching it. Remember Alad V? He, who should have been one of the original Orokin, also wasn't able to create a new Warframe. Although, he can kind of build a new one with existing parts...

The 6 minute cinematic tell us more than what you think. If you really read my reply you'll see that I did say 'almost' and not 'all' of the Tenno gone back to sleep. I also said that from the time frame of peoples' lore, the Tenno have been active for quite a long time before going back to sleep. But why won't 'all' Warframe have lore with the people? Don't Tenno work as a group? Why only Inaros stay back at Mars? Well.. we do know why Gara stayed back on earth though... as Lotus tells other Tenno to escape, only Gara remains. Although, it is most likely to make one of the frames to be more cinematic in helping people. Lore is still lore and I have to including it in my long lore digging.

[Atsia]

16 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

If what Orokin supply Tenno is all Primed. Then why the frames that stay behind protecting them are not Primed? I refer to the Stalker, he should have stayed behind while the Tenno are all going out the fight the Old War. He, who should have been live through the Old War, the Tenno rebellion, and the present day. Have not been Primed. He, who stays with the Orokin all the time, HAD NOT BEEN PRIMED!! Why? It may be because the resources are low or the original production line of the Stalker isn't really been Primed.

That would require Stalker to have been a frame or a Tenno, which we don't know. We don't his deal or how he became what he is at all. All Stalker was is a low guardian, which we have no meaning for

[NocheLuz]

7 minutes ago, Atsia said:

That would require Stalker to have been a frame or a Tenno, which we don't know. We don't his deal or how he became what he is at all. All Stalker was is a low guardian, which we have no meaning for

Hmm? I think you have forgotten the lore. Although, I have called them golems until now. Ballas actually called them Warframe. Even before the first Tenno were discovered. So, they are Warframe, even without Tenno. The lore also said that he wearing Warframe armor. This is the real Stalker even if he isn't a fully Infestation and mindless drone. He still wears the Warframe's Armor, thus he is also one of the Warframe. Except that there is another lore that states he isn't one of the Warframe.

[Atsia]

2 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Hmm? I think you have forgotten the lore. Although, I have called them golems until now. Ballas actually called them Warframe. Even before the first Tenno were discovered. So, they are Warframe, even without Tenno. The lore also said that he wearing Warframe armor. This is the real Stalker even if he isn't a fully Infestation and mindless drone. He still wears the Warframe's Armor, thus he is also one of the Warframe. Except that there is another lore that states he isn't one of the Warframe.

What? Ballas hasn't even met Stalker. And Stalker's Codex entry doesn't mention a thing about what he was wearing.

[NocheLuz]

Just now, Atsia said:

What? Ballas hasn't even met Stalker. And Stalker's Codex entry doesn't mention a thing about what he was wearing.

Maybe I have assumed you read all of my replies up until now. So I'll have to explain that.

Ballas build Warframe even before the first discovery of the Tenno. They cannot control them (obviously). Basically, Warframe and Tenno come from different sources and have no interaction with each other until the incident in the Rhino Prime codex. Ballas has been calling it Warframe since the first build of the Golem. So, Tenno controlled or not, they are Warframe that can move on their own.

About Stalker, I think you'll have to look at his codex more carefully. As I said, if there is another lore that can tell that he isn't wearing the Warframe Armor, he is one of the Warframe. It is shown as clear as day that he wearing Warframe armor, or there is any other lore that said the armor he is wearing isn't Warframe armor? That would make sense because it would mean he isn't even Warframe so he cannot be Primed in the first place. But it is only if there are other lore that said that he isn't a Warframe. IIRC, there is lore about how he transforms himself into Warframe to protect the Orokin... Well... that is what I remember and to find actual lore to it...

[Atsia]

8 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Maybe I have assumed you read all of my replies up until now. So I'll have to explain that.

Ballas build Warframe even before the first discovery of the Tenno. They cannot control them (obviously). Basically, Warframe and Tenno come from different sources and have no interaction with each other until the incident in the Rhino Prime codex. Ballas has been calling it Warframe since the first build of the Golem. So, Tenno controlled or not, they are Warframe that can move on their own.

About Stalker, I think you'll have to look at his codex more carefully. As I said, if there is another lore that can tell that he isn't wearing the Warframe Armor, he is one of the Warframe. It is shown as clear as day that he wearing Warframe armor, or there is any other lore that said the armor he is wearing isn't Warframe armor? That would make sense because it would mean he isn't even Warframe so he cannot be Primed in the first place. But it is only if there are other lore that said that he isn't a Warframe. IIRC, there is lore about how he transforms himself into Warframe to protect the Orokin... Well... that is what I remember and to find actual lore to it...

No, Stalker's lore doesn't have him wearing any armor, or mention any armor. He's literally just described as a low Guardian and that's all we have for him.

[DrakeWurrum]

Something none of you seem to consider: time.

It's entirely possible that Warframes, over the millenia since the Orokin Era, have aged. Grown battle-worn. The Infested DNA in their bodies could have slowly evolved over time, bringing minute changes that diminish what the Orokin would see as perfection. The Tenno could have even made small modifications over time - maybe an external representation of Tenno using mods.

The fact is, all Primed Warframes that we are building now come from exactly ONE place: relics recovered from the Void, a place beyond time and space. We practically pluck the blueprints to build them right out from the timeline of whenever they were built.
So as far as I'm concerned, all Primed Warframes were how they were built, how they looked, during the Orokin Era. Before the betrayal. And that's the only explanation I need.

 

Also: pretty much every single frame besides the original 7 or 9 were "prototype" frames with unique one-of-a-kind designs back in the Orokin Era. Experiments by Ballas, most like. (I think up to Frost? Maybe up to Nyx)
That original bunch have been said to be the "mass-produced" ones.

[NocheLuz]

Just now, Atsia said:

No, Stalker's lore doesn't have him wearing any armor, or mention any armor. He's literally just described as a low Guardian.

Then what is he wearing? Can you say it isn't Warframe Armor? or is he one of the drones builds by the Ballas that have flesh and blood turn into a weapon... the Warframe?

It is just my speculation but if Stalker isn't Warframe, isn't wearing Warframe armor, and doesn't have anything connected him to the Tenno... That would be another lore by itself because he is one of the kind. Not a Dax... Not a Tenno... only Stalker...

That would be nice!! I love to have more lore and reading it. If it can explain more about the origin of the Stalker it would be great.

[Atsia]

5 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Then what is he wearing? Can you say it isn't Warframe Armor? or is he one of the drones builds by the Ballas that have flesh and blood turn into a weapon... the Warframe?

It is just my speculation but if Stalker isn't Warframe, isn't wearing Warframe armor, and doesn't have anything connected him to the Tenno... That would be another lore by itself because he is one of the kind. Not a Dax... Not a Tenno... only Stalker...

That would be nice!! I love to have more lore and reading it. If it can explain more about the origin of the Stalker it would be great.

Are you talking about his image in the codex? Cause that doesn't relate to his lore at all. His lore blurb is this,

"Some have walked these desolate worlds while you have slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day.  The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent. They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.  When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever.  Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent."

We have no actually idea of his origin or why he has a Warframe.

[NocheLuz]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Are you talking about his image in the codex? Cause that doesn't relate to his lore at all.

Why? Are you saying that his appearance isn't lore? If you use this argument it would mean almost all of the Warframe lore that base on the design of the Warframe itself would make no sense at all. Ex, if the appearance isn't connected to the lore, then Warframe doesn't have to wear actual Armor. Don't have to be 2 legs and doesn't have to be human appearance at all. Bacuase appearence isn't lore, right? The Tenno would have no problem controlling them to fight anyway right?

[Atsia]

3 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

Why? Are you saying that his appearance isn't lore? If you use this argument it would mean almost all of the Warframe lore that base on the design of the Warframe itself would make no sense at all. Ex, if the appearance isn't connected to the lore, then Warframe doesn't have to wear actual Armor. Don't have to be 2 legs and doesn't have to be human appearance at all. Bacuase appearence isn't lore, right? The Tenno would have no problem controlling them to fight anyway right?

His only existing lore puts him as a low guardian. We have no idea why he has a Warframe. At best he's implied to be a Tenno, but we have no idea for sure. So no, Stalker's current appearance has no connection to his given lore as is.

[NocheLuz]

3 minutes ago, Atsia said:

His only existing lore puts him as a low guardian. We have no idea why he has a Warframe. At best he's implied to be a Tenno, but we have no idea for sure. So no, Stalker's current appearance has no connection to his given lore as is.

Well, that is what I said, we need more lore. However, with his current appearance, if it said he isn't Warframe, if he isn't Tenno. It has to be an explanation of why he has the current appearance. Because his appearance has a connection to his lore. As you said he can be Tenno, in extension making him the Warframe. Which would also have to be Primed. But his appearance isn't like a Primed Warframe at all. This tells us that If Orokin built all the Warframe in the Old War. It would mean not all of the Orokin made Warframe are all Primed. Except there are others who made normal Warframe and Orokin only made Primed Warframe.

For you, it would be normal lore. But if you looking deeper, you can tell a lot of things base on the lore and appearance that we got.

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

As I said you are contradicting yourself. You said that all Warframe in the Old War was built by Orokin, thus HAD TO BE PRIMED. Except you are double back on that one. Lowly guardian or not, he's still a Warframe. Orokin likes being perfect, isn't it? So if Orokin wasn't built the noral Warframe at the time of the Old War, then who build him? Except Orokin ALSO built normal Warframe at the time of the Old War too. Although, I can't really argue with the logic of Warframe cannot be built and research 'after' the fact that all Orokin technology is lost and almost cannot recover. Because I don't have proof of how long between the downfall of the Orokin and the Tenno gone back to sleep. But it is almost impossible to build a new Warframe except Orokin gave out the blueprint to the Tenno, or the Tenno have a very long time researching it. Remember Alad V? He, who should have been one of the original Orokin, also wasn't able to create a new Warframe. Although, he can kind of build a new one with existing parts...

The 6 minute cinematic tell us more than what you think. If you really read my reply you'll see that I did say 'almost' and not 'all' of the Tenno gone back to sleep. I also said that from the time frame of peoples' lore, the Tenno have been active for quite a long time before going back to sleep. But why won't 'all' Warframe have lore with the people? Don't Tenno work as a group? Why only Inaros stay back at Mars? Well.. we do know why Gara stayed back on earth though... as Lotus tells other Tenno to escape, only Gara remains. Although, it is most likely to make one of the frames to be more cinematic in helping people. Lore is still lore and I have to including it in my long lore digging.

No I'm not saying all of them had to be primed just because they were Orokin built. There was a type (or several types maybe) prior to the primes as hinted by somatic fiber drops. That doesnt mean those frames were normal frames since the normal frames were made later by the tenno when they needed them to fight the orokin. We still dont know what Stalker is, or more accurately what type of frame he is. Just because he is a frame it doesnt mean he had to be primed. Like I said, he may be one of the very first frames that never went insane, he may also be a specific experiment just like Umbra.

The cinematic still only handles some incidents on earth. It tells us nothing of the timeframe. And some tenno work as a group, like we can see in that video, or read about in the lore of Grendel and Gauss. And then we have Revenant, that either stayed on earth or went back there after Gara sacrificed herself. Revs operator probably never went back to sleep for instance, it likely died when it sacrificed the frame to keep the eidolon locked up. Then you have several other frames that went missing at some point and operators that either died from it or went back to sleep. And the reason why Inaros stayed back on Mars? He seems to always have been a loner frame, all of his story indicates that. He's some super unit that follows the dax on their missions until he has finaly had it with them.

[NocheLuz]

24 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No I'm not saying all of them had to be primed just because they were Orokin built. There was a type (or several types maybe) prior to the primes as hinted by somatic fiber drops. That doesnt mean those frames were normal frames since the normal frames were made later by the tenno when they needed them to fight the orokin. We still dont know what Stalker is, or more accurately what type of frame he is. Just because he is a frame it doesnt mean he had to be primed. Like I said, he may be one of the very first frames that never went insane, he may also be a specific experiment just like Umbra.

The cinematic still only handles some incidents on earth. It tells us nothing of the timeframe. And some tenno work as a group, like we can see in that video, or read about in the lore of Grendel and Gauss. And then we have Revenant, that either stayed on earth or went back there after Gara sacrificed herself. Revs operator probably never went back to sleep for instance, it likely died when it sacrificed the frame to keep the eidolon locked up. Then you have several other frames that went missing at some point and operators that either died from it or went back to sleep. And the reason why Inaros stayed back on Mars? He seems to always have been a loner frame, all of his story indicates that. He's some super unit that follows the dax on their missions until he has finaly had it with them.

Ok... So, to summarize your comment and my theory...

- Not all Warframe made by Orokin had to be Primed. Specifically, even the first Warframe of each kind doesn't have to be Primed. It may not be what we use but it is still not a Primed Warframe. This tells us that even Orokin made Warframe, which can even be a normal one (or proto-warframe). If this is true, it is already confirmed that Primed may not come first in each of the Warframe. They can be normal or prototype but not always Primed.

- I do agree we need more lore about Stalker. We only know he has the appearance of a Warframe and is highly loyal to Orokin. But right now if he is Warframe, it has been made by Orokin and he is not Primed. This will reinforce that either not all Orokin made Warframe were Primed, or there are others who made Warframe other than Orokin in the Old War.

- We don't really know how long. But if we considered Hunhow's plans to kill all Tenno after they destroyed the Orokin, I would say not very long. IIRC, the Lotus sends Tenno to sleep instead of killing them. But considered that Tenno has more than enough force to send Sentients to retreat. I don't see the reason why the Tenno would need more force than their full strength to sweep the remaining of Orokin. Except most of Tenno gone back to Sleep and only a handful of them stay to either help the people or sweep the remaining Orokin. Thus needing them to build their own Warframe to conserve their fighting strength.

TBH, this had been a good discussion. I have seen a flaw in my theory that you have pointed out and I know that it may not be accurate so far. But if possible I would also like new lore that can tell us the time-frame of each event too...

[Atsia]

2 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

- I do agree we need more lore about Stalker. We only know he has the appearance of a Warframe and is highly loyal to Orokin. But right now if he is Warframe, it has been made by Orokin and he is not Primed. This will reinforce that either not all Orokin made Warframe were Primed, or there are others who made Warframe other than Orokin in the Old War.

Well yes, we know there were regular Warframes running around in the Old Era. Stalker isn't a great example to use cause we have no idea how or where he got his frame based on all we know about him.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Ok... So, to summarize your comment and my theory...

- Not all Warframe made by Orokin had to be Primed. Specifically, even the first Warframe of each kind doesn't have to be Primed. It may not be what we use but it is still not a Primed Warframe. This tells us that even Orokin made Warframe, which can even be a normal one (or proto-warframe). If this is true, it is already confirmed that Primed may not come first in each of the Warframe. They can be normal or prototype but not always Primed.

- I do agree we need more lore about Stalker. We only know he has the appearance of a Warframe and is highly loyal to Orokin. But right now if he is Warframe, it has been made by Orokin and he is not Primed. This will reinforce that either not all Orokin made Warframe were Primed, or there are others who made Warframe other than Orokin in the Old War.

- We don't really know how long. But if we considered Hunhow's plans to kill all Tenno after they destroyed the Orokin, I would say not very long. IIRC, the Lotus sends Tenno to sleep instead of killing them. But considered that Tenno has more than enough force to send Sentients to retreat. I don't see the reason why the Tenno would need more force than their full strength to sweep the remaining of Orokin. Except most of Tenno gone back to Sleep and only a handful of them stay to either help the people or sweep the remaining Orokin. Thus needing them to build their own Warframe to conserve their fighting strength.

TBH, this had been a good discussion. I have seen a flaw in my theory that you have pointed out and I know that it may not be accurate so far. But if possible I would also like new lore that can tell us the time-frame of each event too...

Well yeah. however a normal frame can never be of Orokin origin except in Nova's case, if she had a model prior to her prime. This is because she came to be after the tenno became part of the frame project, so there were no longer proto frames since at that point that method was discontinued as Ballas implies in the vitruvian. And even in Nova's case, that "normal" version of her would be different from the normal version we use, since it would be a "normal" frame using orokin tech, it would just not be fitted with all the bells and whistles of a prime. And that is if the orokin made anything but a prime of her directly.

Yeah, only the frames we get hold of are certain to have a prime, and that is more due to gameplay mechanics and progression than it is about lore. Since they could have easily skipped Titania Prime for instance based on the lore, since Titania is a proto that lives and dies by her creator. But since all frames should have access to a prime she got one too. And it would have been nice if they skipped primes for some frames, or made them different, since that would more easily explain why we get a "Revenant" Prime, which in reality would be Warden Prime or maybe "Vlad" Prime, since the prime has no connection to the eidolon on earth.

Yeah Hunhow's plan starts early, heck it starts during the old war, which is why Ballas does the whole Umbra thing because his scheme with Hunhow is revealed by that dax he turns into Umbra. I think the reason they need more for the Orokin is because they are spread out across the whole system, while the sentients focused their attacks. It is also possible that not all tenno have been in use during the war, so the tenno may also make the normal frames so all tenno can fight against the orokin. Turning a single frame into something they can reproduce 5 times over suddenly multiplies the fighting force by 5. And there is also the idea that the tenno want to be less restricted, so each tenno can have access to several frames for several tasks. A tenno with a personal Ivara or Loki has a far easier time tracking down Orokin remnants than trying to go covert with a Rhino or Grendel for instance. It also lets that tenno rely less on other tenno, so more space can be covered by each tenno, meaning less chance for the orokin to go underground and hide.

Yeah, new and more lore is needed, since all we can really do is theorize about things atm. So much is missing, lots of gaps in the lore. I mean just the knowledge about what frames really are is very scarse. Not even Ordis when souped up by the Vitruvian knows much. Alot has been swept under the rug. Like Ordis says when he's surprised by Umbra, the frames shouldnt have memories or feeling, or something along those lines. It is too bad we cant find more. Heck, I'd kill for a mission that takes us into an old orokin library or something. Content not for progression, but for world knowledge where we get to do some archeology while fighting ancient Orokin defense systems and so on.

[NocheLuz]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Well yeah. however a normal frame can never be of Orokin origin except in Nova's case, if she had a model prior to her prime. This is because she came to be after the tenno became part of the frame project, so there were no longer proto frames since at that point that method was discontinued as Ballas implies in the vitruvian. And even in Nova's case, that "normal" version of her would be different from the normal version we use, since it would be a "normal" frame using orokin tech, it would just not be fitted with all the bells and whistles of a prime. And that is if the orokin made anything but a prime of her directly.

Yeah, only the frames we get hold of are certain to have a prime, and that is more due to gameplay mechanics and progression than it is about lore. Since they could have easily skipped Titania Prime for instance based on the lore, since Titania is a proto that lives and dies by her creator. But since all frames should have access to a prime she got one too. And it would have been nice if they skipped primes for some frames, or made them different, since that would more easily explain why we get a "Revenant" Prime, which in reality would be Warden Prime or maybe "Vlad" Prime, since the prime has no connection to the eidolon on earth.

I have to confirm something before laying low and wait for more lore.

Basically, first Nova cannot be a prime because it was researched and build by the Tenno council and not a real Orokin article. After that, Orokin then makes a Prime version of her. So, the Nova has been researched and build within the Old War era when the Tenno was still fighting the Sentients...

- If this is true. It means that other than the Orokin, the Tenno also have the capacity and ability to both build and even research new Warframe for themselves. This tells us that the Tenno can build their own 'normal' Warframe and fight in the Old War while Orokin builds and honor their Prime counterpart. It also means that not all Warframe has to be Primed first as the Orokin can rebuild it as Primed even after it has been destroyed or disappeared. This will also go along with the lore of the relic as it is pulling the Primed blueprints directly from this era. Even Warframe that disappear or getting destroy after their research can rebirth as Primed because the Orokin can scavage the data and rebuild them as they wanted (as we can rebuild them as our own 'normal' version).

- If this is false, and Nova has been build after the fallen of the Orokin Empire. This will tell us that even after the Orokin has fallen, there is a way to build the Primed Warframe without the real Orokin getting involve (just the reminder, but the Tenno are also Orokin...). This will not go along with the lore of the relic because most of the Primed Warframe built after the Orokin has fallen would not have been able to get vaulted in the relic. But it will make way for the newer Warframe to getting Primed without the complicated lore of 'Orokin has to make them'... Although, unlikely to happen as this will contradict most of the lore out there.

I'm mostly convinced of the first one as it is going along with most of the lore. But that would also mean the Tenno have the ability to research and build the Warframe since the Old War and still can do that till this day.