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Buffs for Grendel and Yareli


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I've been meaning to make a post suggesting Grendel buffs, but then Yareli dropped and I thought, "well, better do a 2x1"

 

GRENDEL: Grendel is one of those frames I wanna love but he just can't quite perform at the level of others. He could be a support Nidus, but he falls short because he's constantly bleeding energy and needs to consume enemies which can be quite hard in the game, as well as needing to mod for everything to be useful

Nourish: each buff gets 20% more strength, range and duration for each enemy inside Grendel’s belly, capped to 100%/5 enemies. This would give a great reward aspect to this ability's great cost. Losing 5 energy a second becomes worthwhile when you get better buffs, and if would help a bit with the modding

Regurgitate: enemies vomitted leave a puddle of toxic goo like the Tar Mutalist Moas where they land. Adds a bit of utility to the ability

Pulverize: changed to new ability: Banquet: consume 10 enemies inside your belly to give all allies 20 HP/second, 3 energy/second, 50% increased movement speed, 25% increased damage and 200 armor for 60 seconds. Getting 10 enemies in your belly at once is not easy, and that kind of drain merits great rewards. Also let's not beat aroudn the bush, Pulverize sucks

 

YARELI

: Yareli loses more than she gains when she summons Merulina, and doesn't have too much synergies to make up for it. She's not beyond saving, she just needs some help

Merulina: before discussing buffs, let’s take a look at what riding Merulina takes from the player: the use of the primary and melee weapons, and the ability to revive allies and pets. As it is right now, Merulina is more of a drag tan a buff, sealing half of the player's kit and giving barely anything in return. So let’s turn her from a drag into a symbiote who gives crazy buffs to the remaining half of Merulina’s kit.

Damage reduction increased to 95%. Yareli has low armor, she needs as much damage reduction as she can get.

While aboard Merulina:

  • your secondary weapon gets 25% ammo efficiency, 25% reload buff and 2 meters of punchthrough. If you can only use one weapon, it better make up for the two you can't;

  • Yareli gets +20% ability efficiency;

  • Sea Snares and Riptide get more range;

  • enemies killed inside the Sea Snares have a chance to drop health orbs. Every health orb picked by Yareli gives twice as much health to Merulina. Merulina buffs Yareli, Yareli heals Merulina;

  • while Aquablades is active, Merulina leaves a trial of water that deals Cold procs to any enemy that steps on it

  • enemies affected by Riptide lose a percentage of armor and get a guaranteed Cold proc;

  • enemies affected by both Sea Snares and Riptide have a chance to drop energy orbs.

Aquablades: while Aquablades is active, Sea Snares deals Slash damage and Slash procs to enemies.

This gives all abilities some synergy with each other, makes Merulina an ability worthy of sacrificing your primary and melee weapons and gives Yareli better CC and a more focused kit

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Grendal and some other needs way more love than Yareli a frame that's been out a week does, DE already more or less fixed her paltry ability issues in the first 24hours. When she is on her surf board she is more or less unstoppable with a solid secondary. I can wipe the floor with the SP up to about lvl 200 is before I get bored. The suggestions you have for her would just make her way over to over the top.

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1 hour ago, minininja77 said:

Grendal and some other needs way more love than Yareli a frame that's been out a week does, DE already more or less fixed her paltry ability issues in the first 24hours. When she is on her surf board she is more or less unstoppable with a solid secondary. I can wipe the floor with the SP up to about lvl 200 is before I get bored. The suggestions you have for her would just make her way over to over the top.

Are you from 2022 where all of Yareli's problems are addressed?

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2 minutes ago, Alpheus said:

Are you from 2022 where all of Yareli's problems are addressed?

The changes that DE made in the first 24-48 hours of release took her from what many would call a near broken frame to a very playable one. Is she perfect no, is any frame perfect no. The changes the OP wants would just make her over the top silly. I am not saying every change he suggests but all of them combined would make her immortal so long a she had energy. This trend has happened every time a new frame comes out people get it they press "4" the map does not delete then the come to the forums and talk about how the frame is broken and needs to be fixed.

Yareli's big problem though is Merulina, when it works it works "ok" but when it does not work its a utter mess and that plays more into the fact that k-drives were not designed to be used in closed space. I have jumped out of nearly every map in the game and fallen through the floor of several of them. If I was to want to see an major change to Merulina it would be a total re-rigging that would allow full use of primary, secondary and melee its "not a k-drive" after all so why not make is something special and let Yareli reign over the waves.

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Don't even joke about taking away Grendel's meatball, that's the only thing that makes him fun to play.

Honestly as someone who has umbra forma'd him and uses him regularly, he's not as bad as people would have you believe. He just needs some minor tweaks to his energy consumption, for example if they put a cap on the energy drain from feast like they did with Sevgoth's gloom so it would reach max drain at 10 enemies suddenly his energy issues would vanish and he'd be in a much better place.

Edited by xcrimsonlegendx
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Grendel's fine conceptually (Meatball included, it's a fun ability), but his stats need adjustment to stop being such a pain. He just needs too many different things to make his kit work. You need to stack Efficiency to keep your Energy at all, maybe some Range to grab enemies effectively, Duration (and maybe casting speed) so that you can maybe spend more time playing the game than you do smashing 2, plus Armor and Health because that's what Grendel does. It makes his builds inflexible at best and frustratingly narrow at worst. Personally, I'd be happy with just upping the base duration on 2, and/or skipping its animation if you're refreshing an already-active buff.

Yareli's in a much better spot imo, she just needs a bit of scaling added and a touch more user-friendliness. Riptide doesn't do much beyond low levels, so perhaps synergy with other abilities or weapon damage a la Zephyr tornadoes. I'd also like to be able to Aim Glide on Merulina, and I'd like casting speed mods to speed up getting on and off Merulina.

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Grendel main here.
I'm 100% pleased with how Feast works. Don't touch that. The only thing I'd change is that the rate of energy decay shouldn't have exponential growth. That, or it should be capped. It sucks when you have 1 enemy in your gut, because you like to use pulverize, but that one enemy starts drawing so much energy after a minute of being in there that you run out of energy before you reach extraction simply because you're hemorrhaging >25 energy per second.
I don't bother with using Nourish at all. It isn't worth the ability slot, it isn't worth casting, it isn't worth the energy. If the buffs had a really long duration by default or if they scaled in value with respect to how many enemies you have in your gut or their level, sure, but I don't want to pour in mods to make the duration more than a handful of seconds, only a little longer than it takes to cast. For good reason, I have replaced Nourish with Dispensary (via Helminth) for every Grendel build I have. Dispensary fixes a lot of problems for Grendel.
I enjoy Regurgitate, but it's not as good as it should be. The main problem is that when you're hemorrhaging energy, you need to regurgitate enemies QUICKLY and the fire rate of regurgitate is far too slow. I would like the option to hold down the Regurgitate keybind to continue to spew out enemies in full-auto.
Pulverize is his most fun ability. Don't remove it. All I would do is tweak a few things:
1) You can go into ball form any time. It sucks to have the fun locked away by not having enemies nearby to eat. And this would be fair because a zero-enemy pulverize ball wouldn't be as strong as a larger multi-enemy pulverize ball. You shouldn't be locked out from having fun. And pulverize really is fun.
2) Integrate the Catapult mod into Grendel's Pulverize ability by default. The default Pulverize is hard to use, frustrating, and puts you at the mercy of hills, staircases, etc. Pressing alternate fire to launch forward should be built into Pulverize, without needing a mod. This would also free up a mod slot, albeit an exilus one, to alleviate the problem you guys mentioned above.

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Grendel has different playstyles avaible, and honestly with a modest no forma mod setup and a subsume easy to acquire he can infinite greeners in SP with spells, it's probably the best frame for that. It's cheesy but the frame does enemy level based damage so it scales infinitely and it is pretty safe doing so. Nourish is a very strong spell and still it is not that loved because it's obnoxious, but in practice it is damn strong, it gives damage, energy sustain and a layer of cc all in one. Meatball is not great, there are maybe some tiles where it feel good using it but I don't see any mission where it would feel good all the way using it extensively, maybe I'm wrong.

Both Grendel and Yareli have a shared issue, their movement ability sucks. The more we have access to parkour velocity the worst meatball and kdrive will feel bad. About Yareli, just the fact there is a forced synergie with kdrive is itself a huge nerf.

Edited by Galuf
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Grendel's main problem is just his energy consumption. his ult is fun and actually rather effective once you get moving, it just costs far too much energy to keep it going. IMO it should only take a small portion of energy to cast and then take energy upon crashing into an enemy rather than drain over time. that way those of us who want to use it just for travelling can do so, and those who use it in combat can do so as well, but not to a point where it becomes his only viable ability.

maybe he could also get the Wisp treatment with an Augment for Nourish that grants all buffs at once, but with reduced strength or duration. 

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Why does everyone keep coming up with these separate mechanics for Grendels abilities to have them scale off of? He eats enemies, have the abilities scale off number of enemies eaten.

You didn’t not address Grendels 1 which is the major issue of his energy drain.

His 3 needs more than just the minor area denial your suggesting.

Pulverize is fine. It’s got some issues that could be easily fixed, but There’s no need to replace it with another AOE team buff ability. Also eating 10 enemies isn’t hard.

 

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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  • 1 month later...
On 2021-07-17 at 4:04 AM, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Don't even joke about taking away Grendel's meatball, that's the only thing that makes him fun to play.

Honestly as someone who has umbra forma'd him and uses him regularly, he's not as bad as people would have you believe. He just needs some minor tweaks to his energy consumption, for example if they put a cap on the energy drain from feast like they did with Sevgoth's gloom so it would reach max drain at 10 enemies suddenly his energy issues would vanish and he'd be in a much better place.

Just subsumed gara use her augment on grendel and his energy problem is fixed plus energy for full squad

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)VaultedShade said:

Just subsumed gara use her augment on grendel and his energy problem is fixed plus energy for full squad

If you're going to use a mod slot to fix his energy issues, Just use Hunter Adrenaline or Rage. 
The more damage you take, the more energy you regain. If you're capping energy this way, eat more things until you aren't perma capped. 

Thats how i play my Grendel and i regularly run around in survivals with 20+ mobs in his gut. I run out of energy only if i clear spawns too fast and run out of things to shoot at me. 

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50 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

If you're going to use a mod slot to fix his energy issues, Just use Hunter Adrenaline or Rage. 
The more damage you take, the more energy you regain. If you're capping energy this way, eat more things until you aren't perma capped. 

Thats how i play my Grendel and i regularly run around in survivals with 20+ mobs in his gut. I run out of energy only if i clear spawns too fast and run out of things to shoot at me. 

Yeah one puke with Grendel with an Arcane Energize and I’m usually back to full energy anyways. I like him as is and I’m more worried that they’ll “fix” him and end up ruining him :) I’d say he’s like one of my top 3 favorite frames at the moment. 

Meatball GIF 

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On 2021-07-16 at 11:59 PM, LinkHyrule03 said:

Grendel main here.
I'm 100% pleased with how Feast works. Don't touch that. The only thing I'd change is that the rate of energy decay shouldn't have exponential growth. That, or it should be capped. It sucks when you have 1 enemy in your gut, because you like to use pulverize, but that one enemy starts drawing so much energy after a minute of being in there that you run out of energy before you reach extraction simply because you're hemorrhaging >25 energy per second.
I don't bother with using Nourish at all. It isn't worth the ability slot, it isn't worth casting, it isn't worth the energy. If the buffs had a really long duration by default or if they scaled in value with respect to how many enemies you have in your gut or their level, sure, but I don't want to pour in mods to make the duration more than a handful of seconds, only a little longer than it takes to cast. For good reason, I have replaced Nourish with Dispensary (via Helminth) for every Grendel build I have. Dispensary fixes a lot of problems for Grendel.
I enjoy Regurgitate, but it's not as good as it should be. The main problem is that when you're hemorrhaging energy, you need to regurgitate enemies QUICKLY and the fire rate of regurgitate is far too slow. I would like the option to hold down the Regurgitate keybind to continue to spew out enemies in full-auto.
Pulverize is his most fun ability. Don't remove it. All I would do is tweak a few things:
1) You can go into ball form any time. It sucks to have the fun locked away by not having enemies nearby to eat. And this would be fair because a zero-enemy pulverize ball wouldn't be as strong as a larger multi-enemy pulverize ball. You shouldn't be locked out from having fun. And pulverize really is fun.
2) Integrate the Catapult mod into Grendel's Pulverize ability by default. The default Pulverize is hard to use, frustrating, and puts you at the mercy of hills, staircases, etc. Pressing alternate fire to launch forward should be built into Pulverize, without needing a mod. This would also free up a mod slot, albeit an exilus one, to alleviate the problem you guys mentioned above.

Honestly I feel Grendel would be fine if he got two different buffs.

- Regurgitate now leaves a large AoE of Toxin sludge behind (think of the Mutalist Moa's tar attack) wherever the enemy hits, starting at ten meters. It deals 1/3rd of Regurigitate's total damage every second for eight seconds. 

- If Grendel rolls over the Toxin sludge he deals the damage of Regurgitate's Toxin pool to enemies inside of him on top of his regular damage. This damage is also added to the ball's regular attacks and lasts for the duration of the puddle.

Edited by (XBOX)Graysmog
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