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Sisters of Parvos: Hotfix 30.5.4


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35 minutes ago, Owlinaz said:

Just another 15 min mission and no holokeys.

I have done like 15 missions and got keys twice. Really stupid to have them as a rng drop considering it is 7 missions minimum as it is in order to get one of the melee weapons. Sisters can be cleared in 7 missions with good rng. If the goal is to male it take roughly the same number of missions to get holokeys as it does to kill a sister then they really should rethink how this works.

As it stands it is very likely to take much longer to get enough holokeys as it does to kill a sister.

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Well said, as far as 15 missions I think I passed you this is my one and only attempt at this. Well, for now this is the only way to get the melee weapons and I just can't figure this out. They must be on vacation or something because this really is just plain stupid. I am grateful I started playing this game in 2013 I couldn't handle all the different farming that has been created. 

Edited by Owlinaz
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I was going to buy the Tenet melee weapons rather than spend so much time in a wash, rinse repeat mission. But to my dismay I believe I cannot get them any other way? Wow, this one perplexes me. What are you thinking DE?

Edited by Owlinaz
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the website does not load, it's a blank page after trying every "solution" found on different people who also had this. wtf is wrong with your website and why do you keep using newbie programmers and coders?!

fixed for now.

Edited by Zirazel
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3 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I have done like 15 missions and got keys twice. Really stupid to have them as a rng drop considering it is 7 missions minimum as it is in order to get one of the melee weapons. Sisters can be cleared in 7 missions with good rng. If the goal is to male it take roughly the same number of missions to get holokeys as it does to kill a sister then they really should rethink how this works.

As it stands it is very likely to take much longer to get enough holokeys as it does to kill a sister.

I just figured I'd wait for them to get fixed, but Holokeys should be garanteed drops like Reactant in fissure missions. The higher level mission the more you get, The hour-count I've seen posted here of how long you'll need to max a weapon (right after melee mods get nerfed)... Well... I already have really good Melee weapons that shred steel path. I don't need something that'll do it 1% better.

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8 hours ago, Sathenus said:

Point 4 on your negatives section. You're actually wrong about something, according to napkin math the Kuva Hek with the syndicate mod would be OP 🤣

 

That's the definition of "you just let us assume it'd be too powerful."

 

There's this wonderful concept.  If you do the math, Scattered justice offers a 200% multishot.  You can therefore take the 75 base damage from a Hek, and the 108.75 base from the Kuva Hek.  The base multishot is 120%.  The scattering justice offers 200%.  SO...is 108.75*2.2>75*4.2?  

108.75*2.2 = 239.25

75*4.2 = 315

 

So....either your math sucks, or you failed to really do it.  How then do we come to the Kuva version being better?

 

 

10% Hek critical chance is 0.97*4.2 or 4.5% chance that you get no critical on any of the pellets.

23% Kuva Hek critical chance is 0.777*2.2 or 1.8% chance that you get not criticals.  This means you're about 3 times more likely for the standard to have no critical values

 

10.7% Hek status chance is 0.8937*4.2 or 3.6% chance that you get no status on any of the pellets.

13% Kuva Hek status chance is 0.877*2.2 or 11.7% chance that you get not status.  This means that with scattered justice you're more than 3 times as likely to get a status.

 

So...is the Kuva Hek better...?  Situationally at best.  It's got less crit than the Vaykor.  It's got less multishot potential than the standard.  This is...depressing.  It's a change of MR4, to MR12, to MR 15.  If the Vaykor versus the standard was a tough, then they've managed to add a third option that is so inconsequentially different as to be depressing.  You know, the magazine is also halved...so they go from 4-8-4 despite the increased MR.  All of this is in service to a one button press to dump all magazine ammo...and I'm getting a distinct flash-back to the Opticor shenanigans.  

 

 

 

So...the math is not clear cut.  The only improvement is to overkill an enemy at the cost of a 2 second reload.  I like the Hek.  I preferred the Vaykor because despite having lower damage, I could stick another mod on it to knock that reload to sane times.  This is all of the filler, none of the killer...and thus why I said it's fine if you invest into it heavily.  It's not so great when you miss out on scattering justice...and DE doesn't even comment.  Especially when they should have known this would be a question....because they had to when the Vaykor came out.  Despite this, 2 weeks.  No comment.  No discussion.  If the Kuva got this it'd be a genuine upgrade worth of 11 more mastery ranks, and a Kuva Lich, and 5 forma.  I just can't see this as more than a novelty otherwise, and that's depressing for a shotgun that does everything else right.  That is to say it sounds like a door slamming shut, ragdolls enemies, and can eat through armored enemies at low range.  

Edited by master_of_destiny
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On 2021-07-26 at 8:59 PM, Leqesai said:
On 2021-07-25 at 12:46 AM, zaturalma2 said:

This is NOT a gun buff,

Except it is. You may not think it is but you're wrong.

They have already stated that they feel guns are statistically in the right place. The new mods/arcanes exist purely for endgame balancing, which is why they are not unlockable until after you've cleared the full star chart and progressed into Steel Path.

Guns have never needed a buff. Melee was overtuned by a huge amount but guns have always been in a pretty good spot for the regular game. The ONLY place guns suck is vs steel path grineer due to how the horrible armor to damage reduction formulas work. 

People have been vocalizing a desire for buffed guns for quite awhile but this mostly comes from people who have no idea what they're talking about. Shouting does not make your/their point valid.

You took only the first part of my sentence, the whole point was: "This is NOT a gun buff, this is another grind to waste our time to maybe get a gun that can do a fraction of melee damage....".

I agree that this was a buff, in the sense that guns can do more damage now, but my point stands, that it requires a crazy ammount of grind and at the end of it, melee is still better. Which means that you can achieve the same or more damage with melee: cheaper, faster and easier. Which means that most of the players wont bother with maxing out guns at all, or will only max out very few of them and the meta will still be melee. So, after all this nothing changes, and in this sense I can not call it "gun buff". (Not to mention that half of the galvanized mods are simply not working at all.)

I think you misunderstood me: I was not talking about the avilability of the arcanes, I am totally fine with them being only available in SP, I was talking about the fact that their slots are locked, which is outrageous, beause NONE of the other items needs adapters to unlock them (Frames, zaws, KITGUNS (another type of secondary)).... where is the logic in this? 

They also stated that we are gonna see a lot of gun buff and a minor melee nerf (back when the changes were first announced) and what we got is not that (Melee lost 1/3 of its damage and the range mods have already been nerfed in previous updates. Not that I disagree with the melee nerf, but 1/3 is not minor.). Sometimes I really feel like that the players know better the game than DE. Take the Khora nerf for example: DE did not care about her being very effective with her 4+1 combo until some cheaters started AFK farming SE with her. DE's response was to nerf both her and SE farming and the AFK farmers, who got a lifetime supply of SE in the process are unpunished. Khoras 1 "line of sight check" to this day does not work properly, meaning you cant hit the enemies right in front of you. The community have pointed this out several times (check youtube, there are some hilarious clips) and still no fix. My point is: DE sais and does a lot of things and they are not always right.

And guns did need a buff, the only reason it feels like they did not is because DE changed the scaling of armor/shield/health of enemies (1-2 years ago), which resulted in weaker enemies, meaning it was a "buff" for both guns and melee (which is the reason you can only feel that guns "suck" is SP), but this did not fix the huge damage output differences between guns and melee.

Finally, shouting does not make me right, my points and my experience make me right and I am confident that several of the outlined problems will eventually be fixed.

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6 hours ago, zaturalma2 said:

You took only the first part of my sentence, the whole point was: "This is NOT a gun buff, this is another grind to waste our time to maybe get a gun that can do a fraction of melee damage....".

I agree that this was a buff, in the sense that guns can do more damage now, but my point stands, that it requires a crazy ammount of grind and at the end of it, melee is still better. Which means that you can achieve the same or more damage with melee: cheaper, faster and easier. Which means that most of the players wont bother with maxing out guns at all, or will only max out very few of them and the meta will still be melee. So, after all this nothing changes, and in this sense I can not call it "gun buff". (Not to mention that half of the galvanized mods are simply not working at all.)

I think you misunderstood me: I was not talking about the avilability of the arcanes, I am totally fine with them being only available in SP, I was talking about the fact that their slots are locked, which is outrageous, beause NONE of the other items needs adapters to unlock them (Frames, zaws, KITGUNS (another type of secondary)).... where is the logic in this? 

They also stated that we are gonna see a lot of gun buff and a minor melee nerf (back when the changes were first announced) and what we got is not that (Melee lost 1/3 of its damage and the range mods have already been nerfed in previous updates. Not that I disagree with the melee nerf, but 1/3 is not minor.). Sometimes I really feel like that the players know better the game than DE. Take the Khora nerf for example: DE did not care about her being very effective with her 4+1 combo until some cheaters started AFK farming SE with her. DE's response was to nerf both her and SE farming and the AFK farmers, who got a lifetime supply of SE in the process are unpunished. Khoras 1 "line of sight check" to this day does not work properly, meaning you cant hit the enemies right in front of you. The community have pointed this out several times (check youtube, there are some hilarious clips) and still no fix. My point is: DE sais and does a lot of things and they are not always right.

And guns did need a buff, the only reason it feels like they did not is because DE changed the scaling of armor/shield/health of enemies (1-2 years ago), which resulted in weaker enemies, meaning it was a "buff" for both guns and melee (which is the reason you can only feel that guns "suck" is SP), but this did not fix the huge damage output differences between guns and melee.

Finally, shouting does not make me right, my points and my experience make me right and I am confident that several of the outlined problems will eventually be fixed.

Except you're not right, my dude. Getting these new arcanes doesn't require a crazy amount of grinding and the increase they provide (which is significant) is specifically for the end game meta. 

The new arcanes are built into the steel path system nicely. Farming acolytes is something you'd want to be doing anyway so you're going to get these new arcanes passively while essence farming for umbra mods, kuva, and arcane unlockers. And before you say something about this being a problem because you need the arcanes to farm acolytes you 100% do not. I was farming acolytes (with guns) prior to this update do so without arcanes to this day. You just have to big-brain the problem a little bit to realize specific loadouts may be more/less effective. If that fails just use melee to kill Acolytes; I can kill them with my dagger zaw in around 10 hits. You also don't even need to engage in steel path at all to get the galvanized mods (which are very cheap on the market) which are a significant buff.

BTW, guns absolutely did not need a buff. They were balanced for star chart and they are still balanced for star chart. Warframe is already piss-easy without giving players unilateral access to methods of killing enemies more overpowered than what we already have. The only faction where weapon stats become problematic are the Grineer due to their ridiculous armor/damage scaling formula. Not only have DE said that guns are already balanced but I fully agree with them. That's why we got the arcane+galvanized mods, to help people who don't have common sense enough to mod their weapons effectively compete in steel path.

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On 2021-07-27 at 3:23 PM, FA22_RaptoR said:

I just figured I'd wait for them to get fixed, but Holokeys should be garanteed drops like Reactant in fissure missions. The higher level mission the more you get, The hour-count I've seen posted here of how long you'll need to max a weapon (right after melee mods get nerfed)... Well... I already have really good Melee weapons that shred steel path. I don't need something that'll do it 1% better.

I agree, drop like reactant.

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On 2021-07-27 at 8:15 PM, master_of_destiny said:

 

That's the definition of "you just let us assume it'd be too powerful."

 

There's this wonderful concept.  If you do the math, Scattered justice offers a 200% multishot.  You can therefore take the 75 base damage from a Hek, and the 108.75 base from the Kuva Hek.  The base multishot is 120%.  The scattering justice offers 200%.  SO...is 108.75*2.2>75*4.2?  

108.75*2.2 = 239.25

75*4.2 = 315

 

So....either your math sucks, or you failed to really do it.  How then do we come to the Kuva version being better?

 

 

10% Hek critical chance is 0.97*4.2 or 4.5% chance that you get no critical on any of the pellets.

23% Kuva Hek critical chance is 0.777*2.2 or 1.8% chance that you get not criticals.  This means you're about 3 times more likely for the standard to have no critical values

 

10.7% Hek status chance is 0.8937*4.2 or 3.6% chance that you get no status on any of the pellets.

13% Kuva Hek status chance is 0.877*2.2 or 11.7% chance that you get not status.  This means that with scattered justice you're more than 3 times as likely to get a status.

 

So...is the Kuva Hek better...?  Situationally at best.  It's got less crit than the Vaykor.  It's got less multishot potential than the standard.  This is...depressing.  It's a change of MR4, to MR12, to MR 15.  If the Vaykor versus the standard was a tough, then they've managed to add a third option that is so inconsequentially different as to be depressing.  You know, the magazine is also halved...so they go from 4-8-4 despite the increased MR.  All of this is in service to a one button press to dump all magazine ammo...and I'm getting a distinct flash-back to the Opticor shenanigans.  

 

 

 

So...the math is not clear cut.  The only improvement is to overkill an enemy at the cost of a 2 second reload.  I like the Hek.  I preferred the Vaykor because despite having lower damage, I could stick another mod on it to knock that reload to sane times.  This is all of the filler, none of the killer...and thus why I said it's fine if you invest into it heavily.  It's not so great when you miss out on scattering justice...and DE doesn't even comment.  Especially when they should have known this would be a question....because they had to when the Vaykor came out.  Despite this, 2 weeks.  No comment.  No discussion.  If the Kuva got this it'd be a genuine upgrade worth of 11 more mastery ranks, and a Kuva Lich, and 5 forma.  I just can't see this as more than a novelty otherwise, and that's depressing for a shotgun that does everything else right.  That is to say it sounds like a door slamming shut, ragdolls enemies, and can eat through armored enemies at low range.  

They did comment they said because of some quick napkin math it would be OP with the mod 🤣

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2 hours ago, Sathenus said:

They did comment they said because of some quick napkin math it would be OP with the mod 🤣

Let me be more blunt.

 

I did the real math...not the napkin math.  See the previous discussion.  The thing was a trade-off...not upgrade.  Easy to justify and verify...and DE math always seems to be the wrong base or something strange.  No, 11 is not 11.  It is in fact a representation of 3 in a binary counting system....because.  I think it's 11....but DE redefines basic assumptions and words.

 

 

Now to the other side....DE on twitter is like trusting a crack addict with a stash of crack.  They'll promise you anything under the sun.  I therefore have no trust of what they say, without it being written in official documentation.

 

 

Joking aside though...the base Hek is better at Status than the 11 MR higher kuva variant.  I think DE only looked at the base damage values...and their "napkin math" was simply a base damage calculation.  That...shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the game works...but is 100% in-line with their usual inability to understand how players have to work around their systems.  If they did real math...160 Holokeys.  34% drop rate.  6 maximum at a time, with missions ranging from a few minutes to 10-20 if you actually engaged rather than power grind.  Oh look...somehow the sisters now seem like an easy grind because if you choose a mission you'll 100% get the things to spawn.  There was a bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the barrel.  You just had to tongue your way through the others, and DE is trying to see if there can be more.  I'd suggest something sarcastic and pithy to demonstrate the insanity, but I'm afraid they'll implement it.

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On 2021-07-17 at 6:27 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Hunter Munitions works fine for me, of note is that Acolytes have a DPS cap, resulting in doing fixed damage per weapon relative to it's attack speed. DoT does, according to my tests, the same damage per second as a noncritical hit against them.

Acolytes have status dot limit of 4. Dot damage has nothing to do with fire rate but with weapons base damage increased by mods and the crit and level of the crit.

Hunter munitions does not apply bleed dots on non critical hits.

Sorry but nothing you said is based on facts or existing game mechanics.

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On 2021-07-28 at 7:37 PM, Leqesai said:

Except you're not right, my dude. Getting these new arcanes doesn't require a crazy amount of grinding and the increase they provide (which is significant) is specifically for the end game meta. 

The new arcanes are built into the steel path system nicely. Farming acolytes is something you'd want to be doing anyway so you're going to get these new arcanes passively while essence farming for umbra mods, kuva, and arcane unlockers. And before you say something about this being a problem because you need the arcanes to farm acolytes you 100% do not. I was farming acolytes (with guns) prior to this update do so without arcanes to this day. You just have to big-brain the problem a little bit to realize specific loadouts may be more/less effective. If that fails just use melee to kill Acolytes; I can kill them with my dagger zaw in around 10 hits. You also don't even need to engage in steel path at all to get the galvanized mods (which are very cheap on the market) which are a significant buff.

BTW, guns absolutely did not need a buff. They were balanced for star chart and they are still balanced for star chart. Warframe is already piss-easy without giving players unilateral access to methods of killing enemies more overpowered than what we already have. The only faction where weapon stats become problematic are the Grineer due to their ridiculous armor/damage scaling formula. Not only have DE said that guns are already balanced but I fully agree with them. That's why we got the arcane+galvanized mods, to help people who don't have common sense enough to mod their weapons effectively compete in steel path.

Dude, how is maxing ot 9 galvanized mods not a crazy ammount of farm? That is circa 270k endo! And you seem to like to refer to DE to "prove" your point, so how about agreeing that guns in fact needed a buff. The proof is the update itself and the fact that DE had every intention to buff the guns. It just did not work out as well, because like I said: nothing changed, the meta is still melee and guns are still not viable against endgame (well... depends on your definition of endgame) enemies.

BTW you keep ignoring my points that I made before declaring this a huge grind and I will not repeat myself, so there is no point continuing this conversation, besides, there has been a new update with its own thread. And for the record, when DE announced the SE changes I knew it was a huge nerf and so I took my still functioning khora and went with my friend for 3x2h long interception with boosters and smeeta kavat to make sure I will have enough SE when the update drops. So no, I do not want to farm acolytes but I have never said that I have a problem with how the arcanes can be aquired (and I have already said this in my previous comment, I do not understand why are you so fixating on something I did not say).

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