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Need help understanding using rank 0 60/60 mods.


(PSN)gdot-bat
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Can someone help me understand how and why I would use rank 0 60/60 mods? Specifically for viral procs.

I have a Tenet Flux rifle and I want to get the best build I can out of it, and I was watching a Leyzar video where he has a build using a rank 0 Rime Rounds mod to get his viral number just slightly above the slash number, and he said something about only wanting 10 viral procs, which I don't really understand.

And heres my dilemma, I have a heat flux, whereas Leyzar had a viral. Heat seemed the best for the Kuva weapons, and then adding viral on top, so I just went with that with the flux. So to get the viral, I am using Rime Rounds and Malignant Force, both rank 0 but it makes the viral number well below slash and heat. So I think I may need to rank up one or the other, I just dont know how much, and I dont want to ruin my last two available rime rounds and malignant.

Or maybe I just need to make my Flux rifle toxic?

Thanks for the help in advance!

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1 minute ago, (PSN)gdot-bat said:

have a Tenet Flux rifle and I want to get the best build I can out of it, and I was watching a Leyzar video where he has a build using a rank 0 Rime Rounds mod to get his viral number just slightly above the slash number, and he said something about only wanting 10 viral procs, which I don't really understand

I am not exactly sure of what you were trying to explain. I believe the point is the ratios of the IPS and elements. Status procs are delivered based on the ratios of each damage type. So if you have slightly higher viral than slash you should get a few more viral procs. I have no idea what 10 viral procs has to do with anything.

 

My suggestion is to ignore videos if they don’t explain why any reasoning for why what they think is best actually is. It is better to just do your own thing. To achieve the same affect as the video you will have to get the viral proc higher than the others. Having the heat element sitting loose there is going to mess it up anyway because it will change the ratios. You might be better off trying to include the heat damage.

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Viral can only stack 10 times. if you have the maximum Viral Damage that you can have, most of your Status Effects will be Viral, but once you're at 10, applying more of them constantly... well, it doesn't do anything for you.

so the recommendation of using lower rank Elementals is so that you mostly strack your DoT's, and while it may take a Second or two longer to stack the Viral, you'll be wasting less of your Status Effects on more Viral that doesn't help.

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6 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I am not exactly sure of what you were trying to explain. I believe the point is the ratios of the IPS and elements. Status procs are delivered based on the ratios of each damage type. So if you have slightly higher viral than slash you should get a few more viral procs. I have no idea what 10 viral procs has to do with anything.

 

My suggestion is to ignore videos if they don’t explain why any reasoning for why what they think is best actually is. It is better to just do your own thing. To achieve the same affect as the video you will have to get the viral proc higher than the others. Having the heat element sitting loose there is going to mess it up anyway because it will change the ratios. You might be better off trying to include the heat damage.

Thanks for the response. I dont know why he said he didnt need more than 10 viral procs in the video either, but in any case, I think the idea was to get the viral and slash number relatively close, which I dont understand why. With all my other weapons I just load up viral so its way higher than anything else, and I dont know if I thats the right thing to do or not.

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2 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Viral can only stack 10 times. if you have the maximum Viral Damage that you can have, most of your Status Effects will be Viral, but once you're at 10, applying more of them constantly... well, it doesn't do anything for you.

so the recommendation of using lower rank Elementals is so that you mostly strack your DoT's, and while it may take a Second or two longer to stack the Viral, you'll be wasting less of your Status Effects on more Viral that doesn't help.

Ok, that helps, thank you! So if if I want a weapon to evenly stack Viral and Slash, which I believe is the point of the flux rifle, I just want viral barely above slash?

What about heat on this? Should I just get rid of it altogether?

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13 minutes ago, (PSN)gdot-bat said:

[...]

Since you have a heat Flux Rifle, I suggest modding for corrosive (or viral) +heat. This will work just fine. Ideally you'd be using a toxin or cold Flux rifle, add the missing element to get viral, and use a bane mod, to rely on slash proc damage.

The reason to use a rank 0 60/60 mod is simple: You'll get 10 viral procs really quickly either way, and an enemy cannot have more than 10 at once. But having more slash damage in relation to viral damage (by reducing your viral damage via low ranked mods) means you get more slash procs, which are the main source of damage and have no limit of 10.

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3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Since you have a heat Flux Rifle, I suggest modding for corrosive (or viral) +heat. This will work just fine. Ideally you'd be using a toxin or cold Flux rifle, add the missing element to get viral, and use a bane mod, to rely on slash proc damage.

The reason to use a rank 0 60/60 mod is simple: You'll get 10 viral procs really quickly either way, and an enemy cannot have more than 10 at once. But having more slash damage in relation to viral damage (by reducing your viral damage via low ranked mods) means you get more slash procs, which are the main source of damage and have no limit of 10.

Ok, so this is what Id like to do, but do you have any idea how much I need to rank up my rime rounds and malignant force? with both at rank 0 viral is pretty low compared to the slash and heat. I know I can experiment but dont want to risk using my last two rank 0 mods. Maybe I just need to get more...

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)gdot-bat said:

do you have any idea how much I need to rank up my rime rounds and malignant force?

If you are using Flux Overdrive, you'd probably be best off getting corrosive with 90% mods. In this case the heat damage only serves to reduce armor.

Another alternative would be skipping viral or corrosive altogether, instead using Flux Overdrive, 90% heat, and a bane mod, to get really high heat procs.

Edited by Traumtulpe
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1 hour ago, krc473 said:

My suggestion is to ignore videos if they don’t explain why any reasoning for why what they think is best actually is. It is better to just do your own thing.

This.

I have absolutely no friggin idea what you guys are talking about. Proc this stacks that number number number...

Yet I'm doing just fine in SP up to pluto alone. I might get my butt destroyed in sedna but for now let's just pretend that I won't 🤣

Imho warframe is just the kind of game that doesn't reward meticulous calculations. You can use off meta builds and probably end up just 1.5 seconds slower than people who vigorously stick to the absolute meta.

Edited by Soy77
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To clarify a bit more: When you get a status proc from a hit, it's not just "lol pick one at random".  It's set up as a ratio of the damage you're doing.  For a really simple example, if your gun does 40 heat and 60 viral damage, that means each status proc you land has a 40% chance of being heat, and 60% chance of being viral.  By keeping the viral damage down in that video, you don't choke out your chances of getting a lot of slash procs.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)gdot-bat said:

I just want viral barely above slash?

What about heat on this? Should I just get rid of it altogether?

it's fine for Viral to be a bit weaker than your DoT Types. you'll still apply it plenty often enough. 

having Fire is okay, it's an extra DoT. and a bit of CC.
Fire/Elec DoT's scale extremely well with Continuous Weapons anyways. it's one of their main strengths that nobody really ever talks about.
well, assuming that Tenet Flux is still Continuous. i haven't double checked for myself yet. if it isn't then my interest is even lower, that ruins it.

Edited by taiiat
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6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's fine for Viral to be a bit weaker than your DoT Types. you'll still apply it plenty often enough. 

having Fire is okay, it's an extra DoT. and a bit of CC.
Fire/Elec DoT's scale extremely well with Continuous Weapons anyways. it's one of their main strengths that nobody really ever talks about.
well, assuming that Tenet Flux is still Continuous. i haven't double checked for myself yet. if it isn't then my interest is even lower, that ruins it.

Remarkably prescient of you 'cause guess what, Tenet Flux Rifle isn't a continuous beam! For some absurd reason they made the beam ping off in lots of short sharp little bursts. And yeah, Phantasma with galvanised setup + Primary Merciless, it's utterly obscene, but shhhh it's a hidden gem...

To OP's question, it's to do with the order/amount stuff will proc. You can have hundreds of heat procs stack, but viral procs cap at 10, so for a high fire rate/continous weapon, ideally you'd want your DoT damage type higher than your viral.

Edited by Dualice
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7 hours ago, Dualice said:

Remarkably prescient of you 'cause guess what, Tenet Flux Rifle isn't a continuous beam!

i heard some rumors the first day, and when someone else is using one it sounds suspiciously like it isn't Continuous, heh.
that's a shame. oh well.

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