There's not going to be Hema and Hirudo prime "because they're infested".

[xcrimsonlegendx]

1 minute ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

I'm glad you understood

I mean I don't totally agree but I don't want to argue about it out of respect.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I mean I don't totally agree but I don't want to argue about it out of respect.

Its pretty simple:

There is 4 strains of infestation: Normal, Helminth, Gray and Mutalist.

Normal, Helminth and Gray can't infect technology. Thats why they didn't worked on the Sentients.

The Helminth is the strain created to make Warframes, lving beings made from the Helminth strain can be controlled by Nidus because its the same strain.

The only strain capable of infect technology is the Mutalist strain. However this one was made by Alad V and didn't existed in the Orokin Era.

TLDR: Its impossible to exist Infested Prime weapons because there wasn't any strain capable of infect weapons during the Orokin Era.

 

[xcrimsonlegendx]

7 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Its pretty simple:

There is 4 strains of infestation: Normal, Helminth, Gray and Mutalist.

Normal, Helminth and Gray can't infect technology. Thats why they didn't worked on the Sentients.

The Helminth is the strain created to make Warframes, lving beings made from the Helminth strain can be controlled by Nidus because its the same strain.

The only strain capable of infect technology is the Mutalist strain. However this one was made by Alad V and didn't existed in the Orokin Era.

TLDR: Its impossible to exist Infested Prime weapons because there wasn't any strain capable of infect weapons during the Orokin Era.

 

I didn't say I didn't understand, simply that I didn't agree.

I wasn't implying that Hema and Hirudo were Orokin technology that was mutated by the Helminth, I was saying they could be weaponized organisms made in the same way the others were like the Helminth charger. If the Helminth strain could turn a Kubrow into a charger, who's to say the Orokin didn't take a cat and turn it into a the Hema? lol

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I didn't say I didn't understand, simply that I didn't agree.

I wasn't implying that Hema and Hirudo were Orokin technology that was mutated by the Helminth, I was saying they could be weaponized organisms made in the same way the others were like the Helminth charger. If the Helminth strain could turn a Kubrow into a charger, who's to say the Orokin didn't take a cat and turn it into a the Hema? lol

And whats the difference between a Orokin era Cat and a normal Cat that would make a "Orokin Era Cat transformed into a Hema" in a Hema Prime? There is no Orokin tech in it.

Its living beings transformed into infested. Thats what the Helminth Strain does. Makes them more resilient and stronger. It doesn't turn them into handheld infested firearms.

Sorry but there's nothing on the lore that makes a Hema Prime viable without breaking the main lore of the game.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

7 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

And whats the difference between a Orokin era Cat and a normal Cat that would make a "Orokin Era Cat transformed into a Hema" in a Hema Prime? There is no Orokin tech in it.

Its living beings transformed into infested. Thats what the Helminth Strain does. Makes them more resilient and stronger. It doesn't turn them into handheld infested firearms.

Sorry but there's nothing on the lore that makes a Hema Prime viable without breaking the main lore of the game.

There's also nothing saying it can't happen. 🤷‍♀️

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

There's also nothing saying it can't happen. 🤷‍♀️

There is. The entire Old War.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

There is. The entire Old War.

Not really.

You just said that you can't have Hema prime because there's no difference between an Orokin cat and an modern day one. Well does that mean to make Nidus prime they had to use "special" Orokin era people because its impossible to upgrade the existing Nidus with common place organisms? If they can take Nidus who was made with a regular old human and prime him, there's no reason why they couldn't prime hema with an ordinary animal as its base.

[--F--NerevarCM]

3 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Not really.

You just said that you can't have Hema prime because there's no difference between an Orokin cat and an modern day one. Well does that mean to make Nidus prime they had to use "special" Orokin era people because its impossible to upgrade the existing Nidus with common place organisms? If they can take Nidus who was made with a regular old human and prime him, there's no reason why they couldn't prime hema with an ordinary animal as its base.

Read the lore again. Both the Prime and the normal Warframes were made with Orokin Era people. Nidus Prime is just a better Nidus made with a more Orokin "carapace" that makes him better than the normal version. Just like all other Prime Warframes.

Both are made in the Orokin Era.

And a Helminth infested Orokin Cat would turn into a Helminth Cat. Or like what happened with the Gray Strain, a Vulpaphyla. Not Hema Prime.

Prime means Orokin Tech. And there's no Orokin tech in a Infested weapon.

 

[xcrimsonlegendx]

10 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Read the lore again. Both the Prime and the normal Warframes were made with Orokin Era people. Nidus Prime is just a better Nidus made with a more Orokin "carapace" that makes him better than the normal version. Just like all other Prime Warframes.

Both are made in the Orokin Era.

And a Helminth infested Orokin Cat would turn into a Helminth Cat. Or like what happened with the Gray Strain, a Vulpaphyla. Not Hema Prime.

Prime means Orokin Tech. And there's no Orokin tech in a Infested weapon.

 

I think you're mistaken, you can't have the infestation, grineer, sentients, etc without "Orokin tech". Nidus is Orokin tech, Hema is infested, therefore Orokin tech, half the system is Orokin tech. Hema is 110% "Orokin tech". lol

If all it took to make Nidus into Nidus prime was some carapace couldn't they take the Hema and slap some more "carapace" on there and make it primed?

Whatever Hema is made out of, a cat, a hamster, a moldy loaf of bread... just carapace that baby up good.

[--F--NerevarCM]

2 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I think you're mistaken, Prime means upgraded Orokin tech. You can't have the infestation, grineer, sentients, etc without "Orokin tech". Nidus is Orokin tech, Hema is infested, therefore Orokin tech, half the system is Orokin tech. lol

If all it took to make Nidus into Nidus prime couldn't they take the Hema and slap some more "carapace" on there and make it primed?

Whatever Hema is made out of, a cat, a hamster, a moldy loaf of bread... just carapace that baby up good.

Nidus is a Warframe. A living being turn into a infested with a "sword steel" carapace. Thanks to the Helminth Strain.

There is no Helminth strain for weapons so, no, they can't add a carapace.

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

 There is no Helminth strain created for weapons. The Helminth Strain was created for living beings. 

i mean, hema literally has the animation of a heartbeat, sucks blood and shoots viral things. who is to say it and many other infested weapons arent living things?

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

Nidus is a Warframe. A living being turn into a infested with a "sword steel" carapace. Thanks to the Helminth Strain.

There is no Helminth strain for weapons so, no, they can't add a carapace.

You're talking in circles though, if Hema was an organism before it was a weapon it'd work 100%.

[--F--NerevarCM]

3 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

i mean, hema literally has the animation of a heartbeat, sucks blood and shoots viral things. who is to say it and many other infested weapons arent living things?

1 hour ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

There's no strain created that can make a Orokin weapon control the infestation. Infested weapons are living beings used as weapons. Like the Hema, the Synapse or are literally Infested parts like the Mire being just a mass of infested bones.

[--F--NerevarCM]

9 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

You're talking in circles though, if Hema was an organism before it was a weapon it'd work 100%.

Doesn't matter if the Hema was or wasn't an organism before. It doesn't make it possible to create a Hema Prime.

If it was a living being, then it became a infested being used as a weapon. That means, no Orokin weapon before.

It doesn't exists a strain capable of making a tech weapon control the Infestation during the Orokin Era. So its impossible to be a Orokin Weapon controlling the Infestation. Only Corpus.

Plus, the Helminth Strain doesn't transform living beings in handheld weapons. It makes them evolve to a stronger and more durable form. Like a person into a Warframe or a Cat into a Infested Cat or a Dog into a Infested Dog.

The Helminth Strain doesn't make a snake turn into a rifle.

The Gray Strain doesn't either.

Neither the normal Strain.

Only the Mutalist. And it didn't existed in the Orokin Era.

TLDR: It doesn't work.

[Zeclem]

thats pure speculation though. theres nothing that says what you are claiming. if anything, we know how capable orokins are with organic matter. their towers are fleshy and they made the infested in the first place and many more other evidence for it.

[--F--NerevarCM]

1 minute ago, Zeclem said:

thats pure speculation though. theres nothing that says what you are claiming. if anything, we know how capable orokins are with organic matter. their towers are fleshy and they made the infested in the first place and many more other evidence for it.

The Orokin Era ended. If they created a Infested strain capable of working on tech during that era, then they could use it against the Sentients.

Guess what. They didn't. In fact, the Vitruvian said they used the normal infestation against the Sentients and it didn't work.

However Alad V created one. Millenia after. One capable of making a Quanta into a living infested weapon and a ship into a flying monster. But that strain didn't existed in the Old War, if existed, the Orokin would use it against the Sentients.

So, no. Its not speculation.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

9 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Doesn't matter if the Hema was or wasn't an organism before. It doesn't make it possible to create a Hema Prime.

If it was a living being, then it became a infested being used as a weapon. That means, no Orokin weapon before.

It doesn't exists a strain capable of making a tech weapon control the Infestation during the Orokin Era. So its impossible to be a Orokin Weapon controlling the Infestation. Only Corpus.

Plus, the Helminth Strain doesn't transform living beings in handheld weapons. It makes them evolve to a stronger and more durable form. Like a person into a Warframe or a Cat into a Infested Cat or a Dog into a Infested Dog.

The Helminth Strain doesn't make a snake turn into a rifle.

The Gray Strain doesn't either.

Neither the normal Strain.

Only the Mutalist. And it didn't existed in the Orokin Era.

TLDR: It doesn't work.

I disagree.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I disagree.

OFC you do

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

OFC you do

You're citing pure speculation as evidence to back up your arguments, so am I.

It doesn't matter what Hema was before, the Orokin could have turned it into a coffee table and it could still be primed. The Orokin could make a ham sandwich and tack some gold filigree on it and call it primed sammich.

[Zeclem]

8 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

The Orokin Era ended. If they created a Infested strain capable of working on tech during that era, then they could use it against the Sentients.

Guess what. They didn't. In fact, the Vitruvian said they used the normal infestation against the Sentients and it didn't work.

vitruvian does not say that though. it says they used the infested in form of warframes and the sentients turned those against them instead.

"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you. The great and terrible Hunhow. We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested... ... but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command. The Warframes... All of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them to grave."

there is really nothing there that says what you claim it says. not even close.

8 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

However Alad V created one. Millenia after. One capable of making a Quanta into a living infested weapon and a ship into a flying monster. But that strain didn't existed in the Old War, if existed, the Orokin would use it against the Sentients.

which is irrelevant to my point.

8 minutes ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

So, no. Its not speculation.

it is.

[--F--NerevarCM]

2 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

You're citing pure speculation as evidence to back up your arguments, so am I.

It doesn't matter what Hema was before, the Orokin could have turned it into a coffee table and it could still be primed. The Orokin could make a ham sandwich and tack some gold filigree on it and call it primed sammich.

Is speculation if you can't simply read the lore.

But since you're OK with destroying it to get a "golden skin" for a infested weapon...

 

[SmokinDice]

I mean it is kind of obvious. we never get prime versions of a grineer, corpus or infested guns. thats one of the main reasons we have liches now. and I am 100% certain we will get some form of even worse mutated versions of infested guns in some way, even though something like the probnostic cernos already is kind of telling of it, so we will see how they handle it.

I dont take huge issue with it, since some "signature weapons" are often trash and dont even really fit their frame in the first place, just look at yareli now with her 200% crit chance passive and "her" gun only having 6% crit chance..

 I do admit the weapons for nidus fit very well thematically and mechanically, I also wish that we wouldn't have gotten a prime nidus. But especially with him entering a new era of frames that we get "other" stonger versions of.. Warframe designes become more and more crazy and out of the box, and we have stuff like umbra exalibur. they could have easily made it into some sort of "Nidus Scourge" or something, which is basically a prime, but just a much more infested version with some sort of other visual feature, that would have been much cooler and make much more sense... I think valkyr was already a stretch.. but this? I dont know..

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Just now, --F--NerevarCM said:

Is speculation if you can't simply read the lore.

But since you're OK with destroying it to get a "golden skin" for a infested weapon...

 

You're treating Warframe's lore like some scared parchment.

DE walks all over it and rewrites whatever they want on a whim to fit whatever content they want to add to the game, its not some ancient tablet that is handed down, inflexible in its message. Its a video game, DE changes the lore to fit their needs all the time. You can't take every word that is stated in the lore and defend it to death because next week something will come along and change it. Is it really so hard to just be open to new ideas that aren't even that farfetched within the confines of the lore?

Simple fact is Hema prime could exist. There is literally nothing in the lore that you've shown me that says its impossible. Therefore I can speculate that it could happen, that's what video game lore is about. We are here to discuss it, to see what might be possible and build upon it. Its not something that is written in stone that will be "destroyed" if we think outside the box just a little.

[--F--NerevarCM]

2 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

vitruvian does not say that though. it says they used the infested in form of warframes and the sentients turned those against them instead.

"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you. The great and terrible Hunhow. We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested... ... but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command. The Warframes... All of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them to grave."

there is really nothing there that says what you claim it says.

which is irrelevant to my point.

it is.

Functioning agents of the Infestation appear in a variety of horrific forms. While some infested organisms take the relative shape and physical properties of a newly acquired host, older entities have taken unique and transformative shapes of their own, adapting to their environment over time, and absorbing new victims to feed their evolution.

Deep within this millennia old Orokin-turned Infested ship lurks a creature created to fight in the Old War.

Lephantis

Sentient immunity to the Infestation is exploited with this refined phylaxis. Formulated specifically to combat Infested boils.

Eidolon Phylaxis

[Zeclem]

1 minute ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

Functioning agents of the Infestation appear in a variety of horrific forms. While some infested organisms take the relative shape and physical properties of a newly acquired host, older entities have taken unique and transformative shapes of their own, adapting to their environment over time, and absorbing new victims to feed their evolution.

Deep within this millennia old Orokin-turned Infested ship lurks a creature created to fight in the Old War.

Lephantis

Sentient immunity to the Infestation is exploited with this refined phylaxis. Formulated specifically to combat Infested boils.

Eidolon Phylaxis

and? these dont support your argument either. again, not even close.