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Teshin Gameplay is how Warframe Gameplay supposed to be.


Rayzenfloss

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3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It's really just typical ACT gameplay. Not every thing is "Souls" or "Other".

Why you tell this to me? Tell that to people who think that's "how Warframe Gameplay supposed to be".

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3 hours ago, kwlingo said:

I been saying for years now Warframe community has a hard time with any kind of challenge or having a failed mission. Too many time I'll see players abort mission just because they cannot no brain the missions. DE made it this way or was it the community themselves?

Perhaps a combination? The power to avoid slowing down the grind was given to players, and they chose to avoid slowing down the grind due to mission failure. Some players have opined that they’d prefer being forced to face mission failure. Are those same players the ones who equip enough power to ensure that mission failure is not a possibility? Dunno

edit: 🤔 Much of the community keeps saying that the game is the grind and making it awkward to look for the challenge in Warframe

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I like where we are right no in terms of movement, having gone through the stamina bar, the coptering.

At least now, when I go out with some weapons like a Paris Prime just for kicks, I can still out maneuver the horde. Otherwise with the power creep in both our gear and the mobs, the legacy weapons may as well not exist.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)FK2P said:

I mean I don’t want to scare you or anything but, in some games, you can actually fail a mission if you, for instance, decide to run into a bunch of enemies while reloading, or when an enemy throws a grenade at you and instead of running away, you just stand there drooling. This is called gameplay.

oh look an elitist tryhard acting like because they run god-builds there's no such thing as a mission fail for those that don't or that facing them is some medal of honor. Newsflash it isn't and just goes to show a pathetic tryhard that needs validation through being beaten into the ground. When I make way through a mission its gameplay and when I go into a quest its gameplay. Being tryhard bdsm satisfying isn't a metric towards gameplay. If we're playing the disqualification then Nioh isn't a game, cause I don't think the term "game" fits something that locks you out of content due to its own b.s. issues alongside difficulty that makes you rage to the point of wanting to shove a controller through a wall. I could extend this logic to Souls and specific parts of Bloodborne as well. It isn't a game after all if all you ever see up to x-point, then never get past it.

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To the ones saying "this is how WF used to be", okay? The game has evolved and really the only thing I miss from that time is the wall-run (though I understand why they changed away from that). I don't put that time period as some golden era, especially considering how b.s. some of the things were for anyone not having x,y, and/or z mods or a squad were. I love the new shown modes, however I wouldn't want them applied to overall missions all-around.

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it's not really about how warframe is suppsoed to be, it's just how those characters are. 

- Kahl -175: the fact he has a machete and a direct comm link to Vay Hek himself is unusual, but I'm guessing the quest might explain this, but his fighting style is as expected: use Grakata, and contextual takedowns. people ask why he's so strong with such weak weapons, it's probably just for gameplay reasons.

- Veso doesn't so much have a Combat style as much as he commands proxies to fight for him and occasionally uses a Plinx, which seems nerfed compared to ours.

- Teshin is a Dax, and in terms of agility he's somewhere between regular troops and Tenno; he can't bullet jump or void dash like we can, but he knows how to kill with his swords (admittedly his main combo is just Swirling Tiger, but I'll forgive DE for recycling animations, it's just nice to finally see those Dual Nikanas in action!) and uses Orvius with a grappling hook to get around, which is still plenty of mobility. what makes Teshin strong - and probably why he has survived so long after the Collapse - is because of his training and sheer focus. I also like how his Nikanas change element, it makes sense for fighting Sentients. 

it's also worth bearing in mind that much of the Tenno's training likely comes from Dax soldiers: we can surpass them by simply using void abilities, but the martial arts and marksmanship aspects of our training would have come from them.

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

it's not really about how warframe is suppsoed to be, it's just how those characters are. 

- Kahl -175: the fact he has a machete and a direct comm link to Vay Hek himself is unusual, but I'm guessing the quest might explain this, but his fighting style is as expected: use Grakata, and contextual takedowns. people ask why he's so strong with such weak weapons, it's probably just for gameplay reasons.

- Veso doesn't so much have a Combat style as much as he commands proxies to fight for him and occasionally uses a Plinx, which seems nerfed compared to ours.

- Teshin is a Dax, and in terms of agility he's somewhere between regular troops and Tenno; he can't bullet jump or void dash like we can, but he knows how to kill with his swords (admittedly his main combo is just Swirling Tiger, but I'll forgive DE for recycling animations, it's just nice to finally see those Dual Nikanas in action!) and uses Orvius with a grappling hook to get around, which is still plenty of mobility. what makes Teshin strong - and probably why he has survived so long after the Collapse - is because of his training and sheer focus. I also like how his Nikanas change element, it makes sense for fighting Sentients. 

it's also worth bearing in mind that much of the Tenno's training likely comes from Dax soldiers: we can surpass them by simply using void abilities, but the martial arts and marksmanship aspects of our training would have come from them.

Also none of the above have god-builds or probably any mods on. So really to replicate any of it including Teshin means I'd wager several of the people praising Teshin's section giving up their mods and/or god-builds to achieve that same effect in the main game. I highly doubt many are wanting to get onboard with that and for every one that says yes there's likely 5 others that'd say no. If you do want to replicate it, then feel free to either completely remove mods from your frame or go really low with them to replicate how it'll be with these new characters.

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4 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

Maybe teshin gameplay was intentionally slowed down to show cinematics? just a thought

Yeah, they were taking their time. They didn't need to cinematically dodge that one Sentient miniboss with an Orvius grapple 3 or 4 times, in real gameplay we'd all be running up and wailing on it until it was dead. The speed we move through the missions will definitely be a fair bit faster. Though if you look at the number of hits to kill and the general TTK the combat pacing looked much more enjoyable than what we commonly play now.

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11 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

That gameplay was too slow and was obviously just supposed to be a cinematic. 

Warframe isn't some AAA single player game. That gameplay would never look like that with 4 people on wifi....

I take it you weren't around here back in 2013...

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14 hours ago, Rayzenfloss said:

make the bullet jump mechanism very close to what teshin is doing in the gameplay.

I mean, we have Parazons that, per the Jackal fight, work as grappling hooks. We totally could just co-opt Teshin's grappling mechanic with the Parazon as an excuse. Make the environment a mobility assist, rather than a blockade.

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9 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Destiny 2 still has super abilities that can get you out of a jam. Am reminded of the Arc Staff for Hunters.

That's the thing - Destiny 2 has super abilities that you can pull out in critical moments. Warframe basically has super abilities that you can spam at will.

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14 hours ago, Krion112 said:

 

The gameplay of the demo definitely shows how much more impactful things are when they're at a controlled pace, and it reminds me of how badly the game has been lobotomized over time to be less engaging because of the excessive conveniences in power creep and mobility.

 

And the greater and greater focus on "go faster and kill more things, faster faster FASTER FASTER!"  Kahl and Veso's segments looked engaging, interesting and tactical.  And they fought less enemies in total than we're expected to kill in a single *ROOM* in most missions.  Plus the slight but obvious cheat of having enemies they actually *could* damage, and that didn't have 98% damage reduction or "immune to your powers and weapons because reasons."

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My vote is that the older Operators play like Teshin does.

At this point I find playing as any Warframe as pretty stale. All their abilities are either ineffective, boring or janky so they become vehicles that carry whatever weapons I bring. Those lacking much impact too because they're either hidden by my glorified Moa's shoulders or so poorly designed in the audio/visual department that spitting would be more satisfying if it wasn't more the damage numbers.

If ever Nechramechs actually become an all-mission breed I'll be pretty happy at the change of pace. I think I'd main Voidrig for a while as it actually feels pretty balanced wherever it goes, give or take the fire grenades being a little weak. Like, it's powerful, it's weapons are punchy but it has a decent chance of getting rolled over if you play poorly.

How is a barely relevant side-show attraction so much better designed than the bio-tech abominations the game is named after?

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40 minutes ago, Redthirst said:

That's the thing - Destiny 2 has super abilities that you can pull out in critical moments. Warframe basically has super abilities that you can spam at will.

At the same time, in Destiny 2 we still have abilities that allow us to kill or become better at killing alongside our super abilities.

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The shown gameplay with its limited fov and slow gameplay was soo boring i wish i could just skip it in the stream too.

And will be very pissed if the new quest will be with these instead of our warframes that we spent time with.....

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40 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

At the same time, in Destiny 2 we still have abilities that allow us to kill or become better at killing alongside our super abilities.

Yeah, the game is much more balanced that way.

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

In regards to balance, Destiny 2 also has only 3 playable classes, and I think 4 subclasses for each. Warframe has many frames and it will only continue growing.

That is true, but Warframe could cut all the frames and it'll still be broken. The difference is that Bungie has a very good system that lets them change the relative power of both players and enemies, so they can actually make challenging content, but DE doesn't really have anything like that.

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3 minutes ago, Redthirst said:

That is true, but Warframe could cut all the frames and it'll still be broken. The difference is that Bungie has a very good system that lets them change the relative power of both players and enemies, so they can actually make challenging content, but DE doesn't really have anything like that.

This, Warframe doesn't even have a baseline for balance. It's just been half a decade of power creep with band-aids put over the ruptures.

If we're talking true game balance the game needs open-heart surgery levels of changes to be competent.

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11 hours ago, (XBOX)Hyperion Rexx said:

You'll notice there wasn't 50 odd enemies on screen at all times shooting him from multiple directions.

When's the last time you saw 50 odd enemies in that Sentient tile?

Game used to be much closer to that Teshin gameplay. But it got dumbed down more and more.

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20 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

-snip-

Given the sheer number of bad faith arguments I'm seeing get made, I doubt my response here will go over well, but I'm compelled to address your response in particular.
(which, not necessarily that I view your argument as being in bad faith, if anything is seems more reasonably concerned than overly emotional)

There's a level of hypocrisy in your argument that I feel needs to be addressed:
What's being talked about here is literally the only gameplay that Warframe had before major reworks occurred. It's effectively what got Warframe off the ground to begin with, this more attentive gameplay (between it, the 4-player Coop, and the unique setting). I certainly wouldn't have gotten involved with Warframe if it started off in the state it's in today, so if anything, your concerns, about players being alienated if as it is today is changed, are a ship that already sailed a long time ago.
And who's perspective here is or is not apart of the majority is also an impossible task to prove, so I just straight up cannot accept any such statement.

Furthermore, using symptoms of the existing game flow to justify it is a poor argument. The large amounts of monotonous grind required these days are a result of the speed the game plays at now, as in the grind is the solution on the devs' part to the fast gameplay, not the other way around as you imply. In the past, the game was not anywhere near as grindy as it is today. The only thing I remember having to go out of my way to get were Rare Resources and Parts.

In general, arguing that the more attentive gameplay is somehow more trite than the way Warframe plays now is quite laughable,

As well, quite frankly, most of the game studios that are going back to their roots are seeing major successes, such as the new Doom games, sequels for older games, or all those remastered games. If anything, it's the perfect time to get a little 'renaissance' going here.

 

And finally, for the sake of clarity in my positioning, I'm not even saying 'remove bullet jump' or 'remove powers', or anything as ridiculous as 'remove x' at all. I said 'Reign-in', as in, I like the concept of current mechanics, but a lot of the lack of restraint on them hurts the game in terms of attentiveness and engagement. Lack of costs, vulnerabilities, or stakes in general, removes engagement in these types of games, and this is precisely what the absolute freedom of movement and excessive power creep has done, and I just want some kind of limitations and balancing implemented to make them a component of counter-play, instead of tools that allow you to ignore the game.

Anyway, I'm not totally sure how to end this properly, so I'll leave it at that.

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)GingyGreen said:

When's the last time you saw 50 odd enemies in that Sentient tile?

 

 

Game used to be much closer to that Teshin gameplay. But it got dumbed down more and more so Little Timmy can play too.

And with mobile version+crossplay being announced, you can guarantee that the game will never become more challenging. Everything will now have to be playing on a touchscreen.

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