Teshin Gameplay is how Warframe Gameplay supposed to be.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, AlexMercer said:

And i just said several people have same opinions as you and me i never said just me.

I can rewrite what I said to be as general or specific as you'd like, I'm still saying the same thing. With a balanced game there could be content made for all of us, instead of what we have now where there's only content for some of us.

[AlexMercer]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I can rewrite what I said to be as general or specific as you'd like, I'm still saying the same thing. With a balanced game there could be content made for all of us, instead of what we have now where there's only content for some of us.

Im not saying you shouldn’t have content that you like im just hoping it gets done right if it were to happen so everyone can enjoy the game.

[PublikDomain]

Just now, AlexMercer said:

Im not saying you shouldn’t have content that you like im just hoping it gets done right if it were to happen so everyone can enjoy the game.

I think it's easier to do right than it seems. If you follow things logically there's a very obvious place where the balance problems are coming from, and a very elegant way to fix it.

[KnightOwl_]

Warframe isn’t really that far off, DE just needs to rein in mindless AOE.  
People say Destiny does difficulty better, but a big reason is the AOE options are sparse. Heavy weapon ammo is limited, and abilities have cool downs.  This forces players to engage enemies with single target damage or team shoot a big baddie.  In warframe, anything under steel path, and most of steel path, is a slog through a quick mindless mission with someone using a nuke frame to headbutt their 4 key through the map. 
Add cool downs to heavy hitting AOE abilities, reduce splash damage to aoe weapons, give enemies in missions time to breath and the game will feel a lot better, and open the game up to a lot of frames and weapons previously unused too. 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Teshin/Kahl/Veso-R's gameplay is not something I look forward to. I especially don't like that it's likely going to be how we play the adult powerless operator in Duviri Paradox. This is NOT how Warframe "should play" according to me. The whole reason I even started playing Warframe, is because of how fast paced and "over powered" you were (the phrase that really got me interested in the game, was "It's like Destiny, but with your super on the whole time.") I had just come from playing the Destiny 2 launch, where they took all our progress away from D1, and removed "Titan Skating", which was my preferred way of moving around the game... much like Bullet Jumping. Then came the icing on the cake: Melee didn't require ammo, and there were dual-bladed polearms... my absolute favorite weapon (that my book characters use).

I despise Destiny, and any other game with slow as trudging through tar movement, and bullet sponge enemies. Warframe was a breath of fresh air, and I continue playing for these reasons.

Some people say they want slower combat so they can appreciate the animations. I don't like melee combos either, because they don't lock on to enemies, and fling you around the screen out of your control (especially gunblades, while leveling that horrid Vastilok). The animations might be neat to watch if they were actually focused on a target, instead of wildly missing everything around you as you fly past all the enemies.

Give me smooth slicing and dicing as I precisely maneuver around, windmilling with my polearm, without any halting, stuttering combos that either root me, or fling me around.

 

Just saying, there are already games out there that cater to the slow, powerless, "tactical" crowd, who want "challenge" instead of fun. Warframe doesn't need to be one of those.

The difference between Destiny's Supers and Warframe's standard abilities is that Destiny's supers don't remove gameplay. Many of them greatly alter it, don't get me wrong, but they don't outright invalidate aspects of the game. It's just the simple case that designing at that level of power is hard to make gameplay for, and DE have not done a good job. Much of Warframe's ability or weapon design is reductive.

Consider, you will, Limbo's 2. Now, I love Limbo, he's my favourite frame, but just look at his 2. What does it do? It disables all enemy movement, all enemy damage, all enemy interactions completely, with a range limit as large as you can drag things into the rift. It has a time limit that can extend to nearly half a minute at a time, it takes perhaps a second of time to cast, and it pays for itself with only five enemies killed at base - closer to 3 with good modding. This is an ability which can be considered as functionally 'on tap'. Now consider Limbo's main gimmick. The rift means that you only interact with as many enemies as you choose to, and all his abilities are designed around that. Specifically, you only interact with enemies you draw into the rift. HOWEVER, Limbo's 2 means that you can choose to not interact with enemies inside the rift.

At minimal cost, Limbo has the ability to completely remove all interactions with any enemy whatsoever. He can do this at any time, and with almost no restriction.

Compare that to D2's most comparable Super, Winter's Wrath. Which is also a CC focused ability. You're still vulnerable to damage, you only freeze enemies in front of you, and most importantly, it's costly to cast. It's a decision for when you want to bust that out to get the most benefit. Even though you're in a hugely powerful state that lets you just trash on enemies, there's still gameplay decisions being made. As long as Stasis is in play on Limbo, the only choice he has is actively choosing to not use that power which completely removes gameplay with respects to combat. What's worse is that these abilites affect everyone in the room. If you've got somebody who signed up to play a kinetic action game only to discover everything within a half-mile radius is either dead or unable to respond, then they're gonna have a bad time. Hell, the person using that ability may be having a bad time because, as I've discussed in my earlier posts, Warframe's enemy design has changed to match and if you don't cheese them, enemies can become just as oppressive and unfun to play against as they are when they're just damage and experience numbers waiting to happen.

 

Stasis may be one of the biggest offenders in that respect (other classic examples like Sayrn still have gameplay loops or still require some level of interaction), but it's far from being alone as a power that takes more than it gives. Which is likely why ability-cancelling enemies are so common - taking away powers produces more choices than having them. I'm not saying Warframe should be as grounded as Call of Duty, or even Destiny, but it's current level and design sensibilities are far too out of balance in the other direction that even being that 'always in super' loses something.

[cute_moth.npc]

I mean if they carefully rebalanced and reworked the entire game to make the combat tense, balanced and fun I could see a slowed down movement system being worth it but with how unengaging our enemies currently are by the time your build is even half finished I really feel like it would just not do anything good? It would have to mean reworking the game on every level.. They have a hard time rebalancing singular mechanics and weapon categories each time they try, and consider reworks to be low priority compared to new content.. I want more excitement out of Warframe too but this would be like the ultimate uphill battle at this point -_-

[Sahansral]

I firmly believe that there is also a rift within the developer team. At least two opposing schools of thought about the design vision of the game. Funny thing is, that Warframe has become so big, that both groups do their thing, without any regard on how out of sync the core loop and the story part(also the presentation, like trailers) have become.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

@Loza03 We're on fundamentally different sides of the "what makes this fun" spectrum then, because I think all the stuff you mentioned being "bad", is a blast. I consider Destiny to be the antithesis to Warframe. I think its cooldowns on abilities are waaaaay too long, to the point where I don't even use them, because... just in case, I might need it at some point... and I just never use them, or just give up and use one just for fun anyway, and then end up needing it a few seconds later. Any suggestion to make Warframe even a bit more like Destiny will receive a stonewall reception from me. Destiny (and all "reality" type shooters) is/are so boring compared to how fun Warframe is.

I like Limbo, I like the power of Stasis, I think not everyone can use it effectively, and is a playstyle that needs to be learned. It gives players the power fantasy of controlling time and space. It's fantastic for what it does, much moreso than Protea's ult. I like playing on teams that have a good Limbo. I've never liked playing Limbo myself. I prefer Inaros, Wisp or Loki. Limbo may seem overpowered, but just take him on a fast moving mission where you can't just lock down one area, and his powers are far less impressive. Take him into open worlds, and it gets even worse for him... and take him anywhere with nullifiers, and it's a nightmare trying to just guess what will and what won't be able to kill the paper thin frame he is without his control.

I don't play the meta, I don't do millions of damage, I don't one-shot entire rooms with infinite energy to spam my ultimate. I still have tons of fun in Warframe with the power I do have. Every nerf hurts me more than the meta players, because I'm not getting my triple-digit millions of damage cut down to double-digit millions... I'm getting my hundred-thousand cut down to 30k. I'm getting my attack speed cut down when I'm in the thick of enemies that capable of dealing significant melee damage now (infested mainly), whereas gun users can kill enemies from a safe distance, and they're potentially getting even stronger. That's what balancing Warframe has been, in experience, to me.

I generally solo, unless it's a mission type I detest, and just want to clear the node (like Interception and Disruption - I play the game on mute, and I don't have the damage to take those things out before they can reach the console consistently enough to not make that mode a pain.), So... when I do get into a group of people, and they're competently killing off all the enemies, and we're getting mission successes, I am in no way finding the game less fun to play. Mission Objective Complete - that's what counts. I got the stuff I wanted - that's what counts. If I really really want to insist on getting all the kills, I do that plenty in solo... so I really don't care who gets what kills... that's actually NEVER been a problem for me. It's always baffled me that anyone would care about who got what kill (aside from when it matters for on-kill condition for mods or challenge completion, where kill-stealing is a real issue, but also one that can USUALLY be fixed by playing solo for challenges... no way to fix on-kill mods, those are just trash.)

I guess I got a bit ramble-y there... been distracted with other stuff going on, so I'll just end the post here.

 

 

[PublikDomain]

21 minutes ago, Grey_Days said:

but with how unengaging our enemies currently are by the time your build is even half finished I really feel like it would just not do anything good?

If you stop and let the enemies do their thing then you'll notice that many of the newer enemies actually do different things. All of the Corpus additions since Fortuna are really good, as are the Infested units in Deimos. The enemies only seem so unengaging because players are allowed to trivialize them.

[Lakais]

I mean. You can play that way, I mostly do. If for no other reason then because it looks way better then the ultra speedy melee spam with the superboosted sprint speed. It just... looks silly. There's no feeling power behind it and it tends to be very janky too, so there isn't even a feeling of grace behind it. 

Now, this isn't saying that the game has to be a Souls game or that we all need to move at a snail's pace or that I don't use the bullet jumps and tricks to get higher and faster when the need arises. I just don't see the need for it all the time. I like it when my melee combos nicely with my movement and shooting. I feel like I am this superpowered space-ninja when my actions not only feel like they have gravity but that there's a sense of grace to it. Proficiency with a sense of flourish. 

[Loza03]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

@Loza03 We're on fundamentally different sides of the "what makes this fun" spectrum then, because I think all the stuff you mentioned being "bad", is a blast. I consider Destiny to be the antithesis to Warframe. I think its cooldowns on abilities are waaaaay too long, to the point where I don't even use them, because... just in case, I might need it at some point... and I just never use them, or just give up and use one just for fun anyway, and then end up needing it a few seconds later. Any suggestion to make Warframe even a bit more like Destiny will receive a stonewall reception from me. Destiny (and all "reality" type shooters) is/are so boring compared to how fun Warframe is.

I like Limbo, I like the power of Stasis, I think not everyone can use it effectively, and is a playstyle that needs to be learned. It gives players the power fantasy of controlling time and space. It's fantastic for what it does, much moreso than Protea's ult. I like playing on teams that have a good Limbo. I've never liked playing Limbo myself. I prefer Inaros, Wisp or Loki. Limbo may seem overpowered, but just take him on a fast moving mission where you can't just lock down one area, and his powers are far less impressive. Take him into open worlds, and it gets even worse for him... and take him anywhere with nullifiers, and it's a nightmare trying to just guess what will and what won't be able to kill the paper thin frame he is without his control.

I don't play the meta, I don't do millions of damage, I don't one-shot entire rooms with infinite energy to spam my ultimate. I still have tons of fun in Warframe with the power I do have. Every nerf hurts me more than the meta players, because I'm not getting my triple-digit millions of damage cut down to double-digit millions... I'm getting my hundred-thousand cut down to 30k. I'm getting my attack speed cut down when I'm in the thick of enemies that capable of dealing significant melee damage now (infested mainly), whereas gun users can kill enemies from a safe distance, and they're potentially getting even stronger. That's what balancing Warframe has been, in experience, to me.

I generally solo, unless it's a mission type I detest, and just want to clear the node (like Interception and Disruption - I play the game on mute, and I don't have the damage to take those things out before they can reach the console consistently enough to not make that mode a pain.), So... when I do get into a group of people, and they're competently killing off all the enemies, and we're getting mission successes, I am in no way finding the game less fun to play. Mission Objective Complete - that's what counts. I got the stuff I wanted - that's what counts. If I really really want to insist on getting all the kills, I do that plenty in solo... so I really don't care who gets what kills... that's actually NEVER been a problem for me. It's always baffled me that anyone would care about who got what kill (aside from when it matters for on-kill condition for mods or challenge completion, where kill-stealing is a real issue, but also one that can USUALLY be fixed by playing solo for challenges... no way to fix on-kill mods, those are just trash.)

I guess I got a bit ramble-y there... been distracted with other stuff going on, so I'll just end the post here.

 

 

I played Limbo like that for literal years before adopting the low-duration build instead. I think I'm as qualified as anyone to say, no, there's NOTHING to Limbo's stasis playstyle. It is probably the single most simplistic and boring in the whole game. Whilst playing that way, every mission just blended into each other, because there's either nullifiers around (at which point you're playing like low-duration, but gimped) or there aren't and then there's no reason not to use him. He is overpowered, but in a far more insidious way than something like Spores might be. In any kind of gameplay situation where you're not timed or not inundated by nullification, it has no discernable drawback other than clear time.

 

Here's the thing - we're both in the same situation. We're both intentionally limiting ourselves, not chasing the meta to get as much as we can and largely playing solo. And, yes, avoiding the playstyles I hate greatly improves my love of the game. But I see that the game could be so much more than just 'mission complete' and chasing the next piece of meaningless loot. I mean, it is meaningless if I don't enjoy playing with it.

[EmberStar]

39 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

All of the Corpus additions since Fortuna are really good, as are the Infested units in Deimos.

Uhm... I kind of disagree.  Juno "Elite" Crewmen have powerful AoE weapons and far from being elite, are as common as dirt.  Meaning tons of Warframes either aren't viable around them, or have to run really specific builds (like "Shield gate and Rolling Guard and never, ever let your Invulnerability expire.  ROLL OUT!")  And a lot of Deimos infested seem to follow the design of "You know all those things this faction is specifically supposed to be weak to, and bad at?  Yeah, NOPE.  Ranged attacks, armor, and fireproofing for everyone!"  Heck, one of the reason that the bounty objective where you have to defend the bait thing while "luring" Infested close to pop them is so frustrating and hated, is the part where the melee faction is suddenly able to just sit at long range, outside the ring, and snipe at you.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Here's the thing - we're both in the same situation. We're both intentionally limiting ourselves, not chasing the meta to get as much as we can and largely playing solo. And, yes, avoiding the playstyles I hate greatly improves my love of the game. But I see that the game could be so much more than just 'mission complete' and chasing the next piece of meaningless loot. I mean, it is meaningless if I don't enjoy playing with it.

Well, I'm not chasing the meta because I like a certain playstyle, and it works well until it matters, and then it's just sitting there uselessly spinning my polearm at hunks of HP as they either attack me or run for the objective that I can't protect with Vazarin's operator dash (which I use instead of Naramon, because I don't really play frames that are good for defense/mobile defense missions, and don't like switching up my frames just for that, very often - however, this leaves me without a combo counter... reaching 3x at most, on most missions, only 12x on survival, and there are usually breaks in the swarms, even then, that are long enough to reset the counter.)

So, I'm not limiting my power just to hold myself back... it's just that my optimal way of playing isn't the strongest in the game. It hasn't been an issue until they started balancing for the Steel Path, and adding stuff like Demolysts. (I know how to mod to be super strong, but I like some of the utility stuff better... just personal preference, and it hasn't held be back until, as I said, recently, when nerfs aimed at the top end, and enemies aimed to be challenges for the super strong, have intersected with my normal gameplay.)

I much prefer the super power fantasy, above and beyond the slow crawl, tactical, cover-based shooter junk going on in other games like Destiny (I've only played Destiny, Destiny 2, Borderlands Pre-sequel/Borderlands2(never finished, was part of PS+ freebies one month, so I tried them out, and hated them.)... and Goldeneye 007 way way back.)

There is not a single other game that allows the freedom of movement, and the use of dualbladed polearms, such as Warframe, that's fun and fast paced. The rest that encroach on its territory are horrible, from my perspective.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

17 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Juno "Elite" Crewmen have powerful AoE weapons and far from being elite, are as common as dirt

Their AoE was fixed (removed) about 2 months ago. They still hit hard, but no more silly AoE on a common unit.

[PublikDomain]

20 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Uhm... I kind of disagree.  Juno "Elite" Crewmen have powerful AoE weapons and far from being elite, are as common as dirt.  Meaning tons of Warframes either aren't viable around them, or have to run really specific builds (like "Shield gate and Rolling Guard and never, ever let your Invulnerability expire.  ROLL OUT!")  And a lot of Deimos infested seem to follow the design of "You know all those things this faction is specifically supposed to be weak to, and bad at?  Yeah, NOPE.  Ranged attacks, armor, and fireproofing for everyone!"  Heck, one of the reason that the bounty objective where you have to defend the bait thing while "luring" Infested close to pop them is so frustrating and hated, is the part where the melee faction is suddenly able to just sit at long range, outside the ring, and snipe at you.

I meant more in the "has interesting stuff they can do". Warframe's enemies aren't as simple as people like to tout, they just die too fast or are poorly balanced (only because they have to go up against players, who are poorly balanced).

[Loza03]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Well, I'm not chasing the meta because I like a certain playstyle, and it works well until it matters, and then it's just sitting there uselessly spinning my polearm at hunks of HP as they either attack me or run for the objective that I can't protect with Vazarin's operator dash (which I use instead of Naramon, because I don't really play frames that are good for defense/mobile defense missions, and don't like switching up my frames just for that, very often - however, this leaves me without a combo counter... reaching 3x at most, on most missions, only 12x on survival, and there are usually breaks in the swarms, even then, that are long enough to reset the counter.)

So, I'm not limiting my power just to hold myself back... it's just that my optimal way of playing isn't the strongest in the game. It hasn't been an issue until they started balancing for the Steel Path, and adding stuff like Demolysts. (I know how to mod to be super strong, but I like some of the utility stuff better... just personal preference, and it hasn't held be back until, as I said, recently, when nerfs aimed at the top end, and enemies aimed to be challenges for the super strong, have intersected with my normal gameplay.)

I much prefer the super power fantasy, above and beyond the slow crawl, tactical, cover-based shooter junk going on in other games like Destiny (I've only played Destiny, Destiny 2, Borderlands Pre-sequel/Borderlands2(never finished, was part of PS+ freebies one month, so I tried them out, and hated them.)... and Goldeneye 007 way way back.)

There is not a single other game that allows the freedom of movement, and the use of dualbladed polearms, such as Warframe, that's fun and fast paced. The rest that encroach on its territory are horrible, from my perspective.

Surely, if you recognise that the extremes of the game's balance issues are beginning to have a negative effect on your playstyle, you should be able to recognise that overhauls that bring the game back into a more reasonable state would have the opposite.

 

Whilst some people are suggesting bringing the game back down to its 2013 levels, I think that a lot of other people showing support for balance would be in support of a middle ground. Respecting the fluidity and speed that makes Warframe special whilst not having that level of absurd power that limits its options, not expands it.

 

(If I may make a recommendation, it's not a looter shooter, but you may enjoy Titanfall 2. It looks like your generic 'cover shooter, and the first mission of the singleplayer campaign does admittedly play like that, but trust me, it's movement system is just *chefs kiss*)

[EmberStar]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

Their AoE was fixed (removed) about 2 months ago. They still hit hard, but no more silly AoE on a common unit.

News to me.  They were *so* fun to fight that I basically stopped doing Corpus nodes, unless using frames that are permanently invisible or invulnerable.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Unfortunately, every time I've seen DE try to balance this game, it's been "sledgehammer to kill a fly" style, obliterating that which they simply wanted to tone down.

I dread when they speak of balance, because they don't know anything except nerf into dust (practically).

If I were to balance the game, from the ground up, there would be big changes, but I would keep the same power fantasy and easily wiping out of hordes of enemies, to the point where people who are calling for balance would still want more nerfs. Making me happy won't make them happy. Making them happy won't make me happy.

I do not agree that the extremes of the game's balance are having a negative impact on my gameplay... DE's attempts at nerfing the high end are having a negative impact on my mid-ground gameplay.

 

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Unfortunately, every time I've seen DE try to balance this game, it's been "sledgehammer to kill a fly" style, obliterating that which they simply wanted to tone down.

It's a complaint I've seen from even the more moderate "I'm on DE's side here!" content creators:  When DE nerfs something, they almost never nerf just one thing.  If a gun is too strong, they don't just tap the damage a little and see how that goes.  They nerf the damage, and the range, and the punchthrough, and the ammo magazine size, and mess with the crit...  "Okay, it went from 'most used gun' to 'least used.'  Mission accomplished!"  And then almost *never* adjust it back up.  They just drop an anvil on it and call it good.  OnO  The Kuva Nukor was actually a huge surprise, because they *ONLY* ripped off two of the beam bounces.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Unfortunately, every time I've seen DE try to balance this game, it's been "sledgehammer to kill a fly" style, obliterating that which they simply wanted to tone down.

I dread when they speak of balance, because they don't know anything except nerf into dust (practically).

If I were to balance the game, from the ground up, there would be big changes, but I would keep the same power fantasy and easily wiping out of hordes of enemies, to the point where people who are calling for balance would still want more nerfs. Making me happy won't make them happy. Making them happy won't make me happy.

I do not agree that the extremes of the game's balance are having a negative impact on my gameplay... DE's attempts at nerfing the high end are having a negative impact on my mid-ground gameplay.

 

The game is at point where the design space at the top is too thin for anything less. I mean, for goodness sake - Melee really wasn't hit that hard. It's still proccing statuses easily enough. Like, three mods that were at the top of the meta got nerfed, and it still has access to the best crit mods in the whole game. Blood Rush is just no longer better than literally every other non-augment crit mod for a single weapon type combined. Sacrificial Steel, which is still easily the single best crit mod, still has the add-on of doubled crit on heavy attacks that was added purely to let it keep up with Blood Rush. But when presented with that, players are acting like the weapon class as a whole is being murdered.

A weapon class with no ammo, no need to aim, hits in AoE passively and doesn't restrict grounded movement (Polearms) is honestly not in great danger of being made irrelevant short of not doing enough flat damage. And it's only not going to do that because, quite frankly, Warframe's damage system kind of sucks.

[CrimsonXX]

2 hours ago, Goodwill said:

I think I found most of my people in this thread. I am in general agreement to those who find what the New War has teased to be more appealing than what we currently have. Doesn't mean I hate what we have now, but I feel DE has developed themselves into a corner.

I miss legacy Warframe. Back when Stalker use to lockdown a tile and if you were separated from teammates, tough luck, get sniped by Dread noob. He was a random spawn where you would literally have an oh **** reaction. Now when he appears, only thing going through your mind is what he will drop when you kill him. Not even that - just a nuisance.

I also miss when Infested were huge beefy mofos and they tore you to shreds. Some missions devolved into the-floor-is-lava just so you could stay alive.

And a final mention, I missed the good days when people use to fail the parkour. Funniest thing ever to be going through a mission and see someone miss a jump or not manage their stamina well.

Anyway back on topic, New War may be DE testing the waters and seeing what direction Warframe should go in. If they see good praise and player count/retention on the new content, they may take it that some of us who clamor for Warframe to be slightly more grounded is not just us being loud on the forums, but there may be some silent players who agree.

As a compromise, I wouldn't mind if DE started developing separate content for those of us who want Warframe to be more engaging while still leaving the OP aspects for people who like that. I think it may be a better use of the artists/designers and developers time if they are making content that will actually be appreciated and engaged with. Or, if DE was to simply make a Warframe 2 but go back and stay a bit more faithful to legacy Warframe, I am not joking when I say I would drop my Founders account with thousands of hours and thousands of dollars spent on it just to go play that.

Anyway, even though I liked what I saw in the trailer, it still will come down to how the entire experience feels. I will reserve my judgement until after I've played The New War. But I am keen.

Yeah, no. As someone that's been with the game since "legacy Warframe": I don't miss the days of burning through all revives during the TUTORIAL mission; I don't miss the days of getting toxin clouded to death via rooms filled by a (or multiple) mutalist ospreys; I don't miss getting almost perma-planted to the ground via Bursas spawning; I definitely don't miss the stamina gauge. You enjoying those kinds of things just goes to the BDSM fetish certain types have.

I'd say infested are at their strongest currently, especially when surrounded by crowds; though I also don't run god-builds (which is a player choice not game forced).

While the new stuff looks interesting and could be a new avenue to go alongside everything else it isn't where the game should full-on shift to. Warframe shouldn't go Dark Souls to satisfy BDSM fetishists. If anything should change it'd be reducing particular mods and "god-builds", while also putting in more bosses in the vein of Jackal where it requires actually engaging with the fight instead of nuking it. I imagine you're in the crowd that whines about days of old, yet ignore that the option exists to have it back via not running god-builds and/or maxed out mods. That's a choice.

[(NSW)Greybones]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I mean, depression is literally the opposite of motivation, so that's not how that works.  But what I'm genuinely curious is what action you're suggesting the Tenno you're replying to should take?  Because that's super nebulous, and I wouldn't want anyone to take it the wrong way.

I expect they were more like “Now I’m sad” and not so much “Now I’m actually depressed”.

The course of action I’d suggest they try (because trying is about all I’d ask for) is to treat survival and damage-increasing mods and Arcanes as a necessary evil instead of the things that must be equipped all the time; for every damage or survival-increasing mod that’s equipped, that’s one less slot for something like an Augment, QoL mod, or Exilus.

They lament that gone are the old days of fighting the good fight, and that we’ve become too powerful. The fact is, we’ve gained more options to become more powerful, but ultimately a player still has the choice to experience a Warframe that’s frantic and fun for someone looking for a fight.

Being overpowered is optional, as every additional survival mod and damage mod and arcane beyond what’s needed to complete the mission in the first place is player choice; the game says “You need to do at least this much damage and survive this much hurt”, and once a player meets that criteria, the player is now free to consider what they want additionally. I don’t know about @Sahansral, but I know I used to be terrified of mission failures, so I modded to prevent them as much as possible, which ultimately bored me since I’m not a player who has so much fun blending enemies as a demigod.

Nowadays I’ve lost one of those Mantis engines I found in-mission because I fought my way to the Ambulas and failed, and I’m like “Welp. It was always a possibility that I would fail, seeing as I’m on the same level as the enemy”. I see players wishing enemies felt different “again” or that weapons felt viable “again”, and I look at posts like that and think “This is describing what I’m experiencing right now; enemies feeling different to each other, having to pay attention to high-priority targets, using secondaries and primaries differently in the same mission, resistances being important, yadda yadda”. Outside of a mission we may have all the options, but once inside we only have what we brought with us, and that’s when the balance decisions made can shine if we brought the right sized hammer (a thing that works well is to mod for resistances first before considering strict damage-increasing; enemies are treated differently if one is resistant to a primary weapon but another one isn’t).

Unfortunately, much of this goes out the window when considering multiplayer. I’m sad that it’s hard to match up with like-minded players, and personally, instead of asking for all of these massive sweeping changes to be made, I’d advocate for an easier time finding others who want to experience a harder Warframe. Some sort of tag system, like “Demigods” and, I dunno, “Fighters” or “Scrappers”. Something that might help match players to each other who are looking for the same thing

edit: Most of my fighting takes place in the Star Chart. I don’t really touch Steel Path much, except to answer “What if” questions about a potential build

[--END--Rikutatis]

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

At minimal cost, Limbo has the ability to completely remove all interactions with any enemy whatsoever. He can do this at any time, and with almost no restriction.

 

Limbo and Octavia are the two worst offenders of this for me LOL. She's just as horrible as Limbo in completely deleting all gameplay and enemy interaction. I mean, she's probably worse tbh. You stay invisible and untouchable, with a "trap" that taunts and CC's all enemies in the entire room, while making them literally kill themselves, while you're passively regenerating energy to be able to reactivate the abilities every minute or so and spam crouch a couple times, and on top of all that you still have tons of buffs active at the same time, buffs that quite frankly you don't even need cause enemies are already commiting suicide anyways. I mean, it completely blows my mind that someone actually thought Octavia was a good warframe design that would make the game better and more fun. And I've played her a LOT in the past. 

 

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

If you stop and let the enemies do their thing then you'll notice that many of the newer enemies actually do different things. All of the Corpus additions since Fortuna are really good, as are the Infested units in Deimos. The enemies only seem so unengaging because players are allowed to trivialize them.

I agree. "Make enemy AI better" would have zero effect on changing Warframe, since no matter how smart they are you just press one button to hard CC the whole map, then another button to kill them all. 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Thus is the balancing act of the game.

If DE chooses to slow down the game they need to rebalance EVERYTHING including mods. (IE: they need to change into being equippable perks. Think Destiny's Outlaw & Firefly)

Enemy count would need to dramatically go down. (Notice how Kahl & Veso never fought more than 5 enemies at one time.)

And most importantly drop rates would need to skyrocket.

Just think. A 3 minute mission now would be a 10 or 15 minute mission as Kahl, Veso, or Teshin.

Now imagine farming Relics, mods, parts, Kuva, or Holokeys.

It's a delicate balance. DE might be planning to slow the game down but it means the death of everything we love atm.

Mobility, Mods, etc.

I don't see them doing this. But the gameplay as Teshin & others really gives us an appreciation for the Warframes and truly shows "WHY" they are revered and feared by all.

[Orblit]

Looked like old warframe gameplay before it turned into a horde shooter with bullet jumping