bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Frost is my most played frame, and has been ever since his prime first came out years ago. Due to how old the frame is and how difficult he is to mod to function at higher levels (an entirely different issue) I cannot fit primed flow or just flow on him. Other frames that don't or can't have flow also have the same problem, which is that having a railjack's abilities being cast from the frame's energy pool directly nerfs those frames in railjack. I built and fully upgraded my railjack long before the update, and I re-upgraded it afterwards but have avoided playing railjack just because I can't actually fly it with frost? I only have 150 energy. To make it work I have to either constantly be popping in and out of the pilots seat to spam energy pads or use that one zenurik bubble, or have a crewmate constantly keep me supplied with energy. It just doesn't work. I'd sincerely appreciate it if a ships energy was tied to the ship, as it used to be with flux energy (or something different) because right now playing railjack is just frustrating and not fun as a non-caster warframe. Ty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 vor 13 Minuten schrieb bonamb: Frost is my most played frame, and has been ever since his prime first came out years ago. Due to how old the frame is and how difficult he is to mod to function at higher levels (an entirely different issue) I cannot fit primed flow or just flow on him. Other frames that don't or can't have flow also have the same problem, which is that having a railjack's abilities being cast from the frame's energy pool directly nerfs those frames in railjack. I built and fully upgraded my railjack long before the update, and I re-upgraded it afterwards but have avoided playing railjack just because I can't actually fly it with frost? I only have 150 energy. To make it work I have to either constantly be popping in and out of the pilots seat to spam energy pads or use that one zenurik bubble, or have a crewmate constantly keep me supplied with energy. It just doesn't work. I'd sincerely appreciate it if a ships energy was tied to the ship, as it used to be with flux energy (or something different) because right now playing railjack is just frustrating and not fun as a non-caster warframe. Ty! so do you want only 1 warframe of XX to do everything perfectly?!?!?! that is not the point of many different warframes, many skills, different opponents and different ways of playing! there is everything here: tutorials for beginners, slots for different loadouts, bots for gunnery with a good aimbot and much more. devs have so many options built in! but the main thing is complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said: so do you want only 1 warframe of XX to do everything perfectly?!?!?! No. But I don't want to be forced into playing Volt Prime or Hildryn if I want to actually use railjack abilities in any actual capacity...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Yeah well Drop an Energy Pizza on the floor right behind the pilots seat. Or build a Railjack-specific loadout for your frame., with Primed Flow, Preparation, and Dispensary Helminth Infused ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZarTham Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Been out of WF for some time but, wasn't there something regarding the introduction of a railjack crew (NPCs) and being able to set them at each station? Allowing us to be able to not have a person being bored to death at the loading station? I really didn't like this change, especially considering that I faced the same issue, low energy pool when casually monkey'ing around Railjack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, ZarTham said: Been out of WF for some time but, wasn't there something regarding the introduction of a railjack crew (NPCs) and being able to set them at each station? Allowing us to be able to not have a person being bored to death at the loading station? Yeah! Its really useful - it just doesn't solve the problem that is flying a railjack is actually quite fun and id rather do it than let an npc do it, its just really difficult and frustrating to do with a low energy frame! 4 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: Yeah well Drop an Energy Pizza on the floor right behind the pilots seat. Or build a Railjack-specific loadout for your frame., with Primed Flow, Preparation, and Dispensary Helminth Infused ability. 1) I addressed that in the OP, but in a nutshell, having to get out of the pilots seat every 30 seconds to waste an energy restore doesn't seem like a particularly well designed system, does it? 2) It was fine before, where I didn't need to have a specific build just so I could actually fly the railjack, as playing frames that I don't enjoy kinda defeats the purpose of having fun in a game. What you propose are band-aid fixes on the players side, whereas I'm actually suggesting we return to a version of the system that actually worked for everybody beforehand, rather than nerfing some frames for absolutely no reason and making them bend over backwards to actually play railjack content. 26 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said: so do you want only 1 warframe of XX to do everything perfectly?!?!?! that is not the point of many different warframes, many skills, different opponents and different ways of playing! there is everything here: tutorials for beginners, slots for different loadouts, bots for gunnery with a good aimbot and much more. devs have so many options built in! but the main thing is complaining. What do you suppose would happen if people didn't bring up grievances with the game, and suggestions that would make it better for everybody? The point of the OP is not that i don't want variation, because I do! I play many different frames as frost might be my main, but he's only got 17% of my overall playtime. What I'm trying to say is that the new system that ties railjack abilites to energy is flawed, as it encourages either playing frames you don't like (and defeating the whole purpose of having fun in a game), making sub-par builds (which hurts you when you go up against sentients, especially with older frames like frost), or gimmicky band-aid fixes on the players side as suggested in other posts like jumping in and out and dropping energy pads every 30 seconds (which isnt a sign of a well designed system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZarTham Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, bonamb said: Yeah! Its really useful - it just doesn't solve the problem that is flying a railjack is actually quite fun and id rather do it than let an npc do it, its just really difficult and frustrating to do with a low energy frame! Oh, I think you misunderstood me, my comment was more in line with setting the NPC at the loading station, let it charge the Railjack energy, so we wouldn't have to deal with leaving the pilot seat every x seconds to set a pizza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godmode_Ash Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Nvm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Just now, ZarTham said: Oh, I think you misunderstood me, my comment was more in line with setting the NPC at the loading station, let it charge the Railjack energy, so we wouldn't have to deal with leaving the pilot seat every x seconds to set a pizza. Oooooh gotcha. Yeah, that's how it used to be before the nerf its just we didn't have the NPCs and had to have a crewmate stuck down there like you said. Having an NPC charge energy would be the perfect option imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, bonamb said: 2) It was fine before, where I didn't need to have a specific build just so I could actually fly the railjack, as playing frames that I don't enjoy kinda defeats the purpose of having fun in a game. yeah, well DE intended that instead of everyone just tagging along on the Hosts RJ, every rando squadmate should be able to contribute something, hence the new plexus system with separate RJ abilities per person, and.... oh wait how can we give everyone separate RJ abilities without the foundry energy pool being in conflict.... ...I know! I guess we'll just have them use their warframe's energy instead. and then all the DE people started clapping... and really, as far as having to get out of the pilots seat every 30seconds to drop a pizza how is that any worse than the old system of getting out of the pilots seat every 30seconds, running down to the Foundry to build energy, then running back up? seems to me the old Foundry energy mode was just as bad a system, dunno why you would want *that* back. It wasn't 'fine' before, it was bad. just a different kind of bad from today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZarTham Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: how is that any worse than the old system of getting out of the pilots seat every 30seconds, running down to the Foundry to build energy, then running back up? Crew NPC could have solved this, set it at the loading station and let it charge the RJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: yeah, well DE intended that instead of everyone just tagging along on the Hosts RJ, every rando squadmate should be able to contribute something, hence the new plexus system with separate RJ abilities per person, and.... oh wait how can we give everyone separate RJ abilities without the foundry energy pool being in conflict.... ...I know! I guess we'll just have them use their warframe's energy instead. and then all the DE people started clapping... why would the foundry energy pool be in conflict? It would be there, and it would be the same for everybody to use their abilities from. Bigger or smaller that's up to the host. 5 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: and really, as far as having to get out of the pilots seat every 30seconds to drop a pizza how is that any worse than the old system of getting out of the pilots seat every 30seconds, running down to the Foundry to build energy, then running back up? Damn if only there was some kind of crewmate or NPC these days that could run the forge for you. And some of us played with clan-mates so we didnt have to constantly run up and down the stars which was quite nice. I haven't had a long stretch of uninterrupted piloting since the update, and it is very frustrating. Having to leave the seat every 30 seconds is just bad game design, especially if you have a high ping or since frames without flow respond worse to energy pads due to having a smaller pool in which to hold the energy, meaning they have to use it as they get it or lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Want to know a really good secret to make all your "Warframe-to-Railjack" energy dependency to go away? Its only 1 word.... Spoiler Crew ... Seriously, OP, if you've already fully upgraded your Railjack, then you're having energy problems because you want to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 vor 21 Minuten schrieb bonamb: What do you suppose would happen if people didn't bring up grievances with the game, and suggestions that would make it better for everybody? The point of the OP is not that i don't want variation, because I do! I play many different frames as frost might be my main, but he's only got 17% of my overall playtime. What I'm trying to say is that the new system that ties railjack abilites to energy is flawed, as it encourages either playing frames you don't like (and defeating the whole purpose of having fun in a game), making sub-par builds (which hurts you when you go up against sentients, especially with older frames like frost), or gimmicky band-aid fixes on the players side as suggested in other posts like jumping in and out and dropping energy pads every 30 seconds (which isnt a sign of a well designed system). everyone has their own opinion and preferences. I don't mind either. it's alright. but you are totally wrong here! you can never and nowhere do something good for EVERYONE! what is good for someone is bad for others! or someone wants to do something good and in the end you break the game. example would be: frost is ideal for everything. perfect tank, runs fast and has hardcore buffs. it is also perfect for playing solo railjack. great right? only now the parts are not farmed for other warframes. and most of the content is superfluous. nobody needs it. who wins here? and OP will uninstall the game right away. because it is supposedly boring and there is hardly anything to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 vor 6 Minuten schrieb ZarTham: Crew NPC could have solved this, set it at the loading station and let it charge the RJ. you can also change roles in railjack. if the trash is dead, you can change the role for gunners ... actually the OP lacks knowledge completely. because two gunner with mk3 clear the trash almost as fast as spam with lavos. player can comfortably concentrate on crew ships or obj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, bonamb said: Damn if only there was some kind of crewmate or NPC these days that could run the forge for you. And some of us played with clan-mates so we didnt have to constantly run up and down the stars which was quite nice. I haven't had a long stretch of uninterrupted piloting since the update, and it is very frustrating. If DE were to let AI crew just automatically keep the Foundry constantly refilled then they might as well just delete the Foundry as a game mechanic altogether because no human would interact with it anymore. Put everything on cooldown timers instead. As for that clanmates RJ situation, its not "quite nice" for the guy who drew the short straw and gets stuck babysitting the Foundry. I've done that job, boring as f*sk. Having everyone deal with their own energy is a lot more fair, you don't need to have a designated b*tch in your squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, ZarTham said: Crew NPC could have solved this, set it at the loading station and let it charge the RJ. DESteve doesn't like bots or any automated gamplay. and he put too much work into the mini-game of RJ resources dropped in mission acting as fuel to balance what your Foundry can put out. His sense of pride will never let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 13 minutes ago, Uhkretor said: Want to know a really good secret to make all your "Warframe-to-Railjack" energy dependency to go away? Its only 1 word.... Reveal hidden contents Crew ... Seriously, OP, if you've already fully upgraded your Railjack, then you're having energy problems because you want to... If you have a way that crewmates get you over the hurdle of being unable to pilot properly with only 150 energy, I'd honestly love to hear it! It's really quite a pain! 14 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said: everyone has their own opinion and preferences. I don't mind either. it's alright. but you are totally wrong here! you can never and nowhere do something good for EVERYONE! what is good for someone is bad for others! or someone wants to do something good and in the end you break the game. example would be: frost is ideal for everything. perfect tank, runs fast and has hardcore buffs. it is also perfect for playing solo railjack. great right? only now the parts are not farmed for other warframes. and most of the content is superfluous. nobody needs it. who wins here? and OP will uninstall the game right away. because it is supposedly boring and there is hardly anything to do! Arguing semantics, hyperbole and utilizing the slippery slope fallacy isn't exactly conducive to a good thread. 11 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said: you can also change roles in railjack. if the trash is dead, you can change the role for gunners ... actually the OP lacks knowledge completely. because two gunner with mk3 clear the trash almost as fast as spam with lavos. player can comfortably concentrate on crew ships or obj. You've missed the point of the thread. We're talking about the issues of low energy frames not being able to pilot (or even use guns) without resorting to gimmicks or specific builds to fly the railjack, whereas before any frame could fly a railjack. Not killing enemies. Ty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, bonamb said: If you have a way that crewmates get you over the hurdle of being unable to pilot properly with only 150 energy, I'd honestly love to hear it! It's really quite a pain! Even though piloting doesn't consume energy? That's hardly a hurdle. Just stick your crew in your turrets and fly away, its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Uhkretor said: Even though piloting doesn't consume energy? That's hardly a hurdle. Just stick your crew in your turrets and fly away, its as simple as that. Oh I understand the confusion. I use abilities while I pilot, while you might not. Its very difficult to use those abilities with only 150 energy without resorting to gimmicks and player-side bandaid fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 37 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: and really, as far as having to get out of the pilots seat every 30seconds to drop a pizza how is that any worse than the old system of getting out of the pilots seat every 30seconds, running down to the Foundry to build energy, then running back up? seems to me the old Foundry energy mode was just as bad a system, dunno why you would want *that* back. It wasn't 'fine' before, it was bad. just a different kind of bad from today. No, that was just as stupid. Both the old system and the new system suck, it's just that the new one has even worse balance. Can you give me one good reason, either in gameplay or in lore, as to why the access to special abilities for a large spaceship should depend solely on what the pilot is? And if that's justified, why are we not allowed to build a bunch of surplus Volts, give each one a flow and an energy siphon and then stuff the lot of them into the cargo hold? Because in terms of game balance, it's completely defective. Right now, Lavos is objectively the superior pilot. 10 seconds between each cast (which is 13 seconds between missile swarm casts, as the countdown only starts once the last missile fires), infinite spammability for all abilities with no need to refill energy. If you take another frame, you need to keep getting out to use zenurik. And that's ignoring the frames which don't need high energy. Zephyr, Nidus, Octavia, Nekros, Rhino, Ash and Frost all fit in that category. I don't need Flow on any of them to play them well. I don't even have it installed, because there are plenty of other warframe mods which are better to equip on the warframe which give said warframe more capabilities. Railjack energy for railjack abilities should come from the railjack reactor. Simple as that. No stupid forges and no warframe dependency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Uhkretor said: Even though piloting doesn't consume energy? That's hardly a hurdle. Just stick your crew in your turrets and fly away, its as simple as that. As long as you don't want to use any abilities.....sure. If you use railjack abilities while piloting then it becomes quite the hurdle for low energy frames unless you specifically gimp them so that they can't do the out of ship sections properly just to have enough energy for the piloting part. 46 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said: seems to me the old Foundry energy mode was just as bad a system, dunno why you would want *that* back. It wasn't 'fine' before, it was bad. just a different kind of bad from today. Because then we weren't shoe-horned into playing Volt Prime, Lavos, or Hildryn if we wanted to use the railjack abilities and could use -any- frame AND we can use railjack abilities frequently with super specific high energy builds or caster frames only (or frames that completely ignore the energy system) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)haphazardlynamed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, DoomFruit said: Can you give me one good reason, either in gameplay or in lore, as to why the access to special abilities for a large spaceship should depend solely on what the pilot is? Standard Anime trope. usually justified as the pilot having some special psychic ability that enables physics bending, which applies to the craft he pilots when linked in. Gunbuster Exotic Manuever! Buster Beam SLICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 vor 6 Minuten schrieb DoomFruit: Railjack energy for railjack abilities should come from the railjack reactor. Simple as that. No stupid forges and no warframe dependency. forge must be completely abolished. it just won't happen anytime soon. but supposedly people like it. many like fishing, hunting or k-drive. and anyone who now has problems with energy is doing a lot wrong. and in groups you only need 1 spamer for 2 & 3 skills. the opponents are extremely weak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonamb Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Battle.Mage said: and anyone who now has problems with energy is doing a lot wrong. and in groups you only need 1 spamer for 2 & 3 skills. the opponents are extremely weak! Unfortunately that's another bandaid fix on the player's side for a bad system. Using your own logic, some people also like flying solo, like many like fishing, hunting or k-drive. This avenue wouldn't be open to them. In addition to that it shoehorns one player into spamming abilities, meaning they have to either pilot, or just sit in the gunners seat. It doesn't address the overall problem of the current system being a direct nerf to low-energy frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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