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Please try your word on the sisters


(PSN)draco_86

Question

Hear me out. I feel the nemesis system is like a potluck*. We all team up, farm words and work towards a common goal.

Always taking a chance on your nemesis by trying a word pays off for you and the whole team.

When someone refuses to help and just lets the nemesis bleed out it takes it longer for another to spawn and it takes it longer to reach another word.

Besides the extra push helps out so much it cuts the farm in half.

If you arent going to bring something to the table then play solo. You'll get the same amount of hounds. Unless you're only doing it to eat others food.

 

*a meal or party to which each of the guests contributes a dish

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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes, if I play my Lich correctly they will never get past rank 3.

But these freaking impatient jerks like OP keep whining and complaining that I'm not stabbing them, all because THEY want their precious ten murmurs

I'd argue that the frustrating thing for your teammates is less the murmurs and more you're stopping other liches/sisters from spawning when you leave them alive. More than one can spawn in a mission and if you just let yours fart around then it makes it so other people have to deal with losing out on a chance to spawn their lich/sister.

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12 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Out of fifty liches? Never

Yeah even I think that's extreme. No requiems is a not-stab for me, but one requiem is stab city

Oh, if only. Like I said, I've used guns that can kill Steel Path Grineer in two headshots, but a Lich will laugh off entire magazines to the face. I've pumped Gara to hundreds of thousands of damage, and seen a Lich who even tanked THAT.

That's actually a pretty good point...

Then youre lucky as heck ive done well over 50 as well and have had such bad luck sometimes. Although you did admit to a lich not spawning before. I have had great luck in guessing all three words twice! And other times I hesitated went back to my orbiter and found the word I had was the one needed then didnt see my lich for almost a week. Cleared 4 planets before he respawned. So I get it

 

But that's the old system. 40 murmurs is amazballs on the new system (10 per each tenno).

 

But I digress, DE could fix the issue with solutions listed above.

1 removed extra murmurs or only gift them to the owner of the lich

2 give a release option so youre not wasting other players time who really want to kill their nemesis

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

There are valid reasons to not stab, so just let people play the way they want and be cool with it.  If you aren't cool with it, you can preform a party that's perfected to your tastes.

Theres valid reason to doing it. Do you go to dinner with friends and let them pay for your food?

But i digress its also valid for players to join fissures without relics. No one likes it and they will complain. But let them play how they want

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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

30 seconds. It takes 30 seconds to banish a Lich. 

Generally people don't make it a point to intentionally banish someone's lich. That's part of the issue here, my dude.

The expectation you have is fine for solo play but the general consesus for group play (with randoms) is that people stab their liches/sisters. You might disagree with this but you're swimming against the current and you're likely going to continue getting flak from people ingame since this is not in alignment with what people are doing. 

I'm not sure why you're so offended the the TC's request. It is a resonable request and is consistent with the expectations of random grouping when hunting liches/sisters. If you've got a  problem with this system then play solo. Don't force randoms to adopt your way of doing things simply because it makes sense for you. It is not consistent with how hunting liches/sisters actually works and IS generally viewed as disruptive and/or disrespectful to leave your lich alive. If you want to banish it then you should be doing so as quickly as possible so as to not disrupt the flow of the mission.

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3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Generally people don't make it a point to intentionally banish someone's lich. That's part of the issue here, my dude.

The expectation you have is fine for solo play but the general consesus for group play (with randoms) is that people stab their liches/sisters. You might disagree with this but you're swimming against the current and you're likely going to continue getting flak from people ingame since this is not in alignment with what people are doing. 

I'm not sure why you're so offended the the TC's request. It is a resonable request and is consistent with the expectations of random grouping when hunting liches/sisters. If you've got a  problem with this system then play solo. Don't force randoms to adopt your way of doing things simply because it makes sense for you. It is not consistent with how hunting liches/sisters actually works and IS generally viewed as disruptive and/or disrespectful to leave your lich alive. If you want to banish it then you should be doing so as quickly as possible so as to not disrupt the flow of the mission.

Very well spoken!

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13 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

The expectation you have is fine for solo play but the general consesus for group play (with randoms) is that people stab their liches/sisters. You might disagree with this but you're swimming against the current and you're likely going to continue getting flak from people ingame since this is not in alignment with what people are doing. 

This is in theory a fair point that I would in theory like to debate. The problem is that I can see your side of the argument, but you can't see mine:

13 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I'm not sure why you're so offended the the TC's request. It is a resonable request and is consistent with the expectations of random grouping when hunting liches/sisters. 

If I am not stabbing my Lich, it is because the Lich will rank up to a point where it becomes unfun and PAINFUL to fight. I can do it, I have all the mods, all the weapons, all the archguns to kill any Lich. But it's slow boring and tedious, it literally takes as long to do a mission as to kill a rank 5 Lich.

The end result is we take it to the forums. We just keep making thread after thread where all we do is go over the same thing: Someone calls a Not-Stabber a leech, other people defend Not-Stabbing because you're supposed to play games for fun, we start a flame war, mods may or may not get involved, and nobody budges from their position.

Every now and then somebody might bring up that this is ultimately DE's fault that we get into this position in the first place. The REAL issue isn't the trade-off of taking a gamble. No, the issue is that the rest of the squad gets a bonus if you gamble. Thus the rest of the squad is incentivized to pressure you into gambling. That's not good game design, you should not have an incentive to pressure other people in your squad into taking a deal.

Imagine how whack it would be if you gained a bonus if the other person Converts their Lich, but nothing if they Vanquish their Lich. Imagine just how insane that would be. The stupid ten bonus murmurs are that same problem

You hear that @(PSN)draco_86

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11 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is in theory a fair point that I would in theory like to debate. The problem is that I can see your side of the argument, but you can't see mine:

If I am not stabbing my Lich, it is because the Lich will rank up to a point where it becomes unfun and PAINFUL to fight. I can do it, I have all the mods, all the weapons, all the archguns to kill any Lich. But it's slow boring and tedious, it literally takes as long to do a mission as to kill a rank 5 Lich.

The end result is we take it to the forums. We just keep making thread after thread where all we do is go over the same thing: Someone calls a Not-Stabber a leech, other people defend Not-Stabbing because you're supposed to play games for fun, we start a flame war, mods may or may not get involved, and nobody budges from their position.

Every now and then somebody might bring up that this is ultimately DE's fault that we get into this position in the first place. The REAL issue isn't the trade-off of taking a gamble. No, the issue is that the rest of the squad gets a bonus if you gamble. Thus the rest of the squad is incentivized to pressure you into gambling. That's not good game design, you should not have an incentive to pressure other people in your squad into taking a deal.

Imagine how whack it would be if you gained a bonus if the other person Converts their Lich, but nothing if they Vanquish their Lich. Imagine just how insane that would be. The stupid ten bonus murmurs are that same problem

You hear that @(PSN)draco_86

I hear you, but my post was a suggestion. No one wants to spend needless hours on the nemesis system. If no one stabbed thier nemesis then its no benefit from solo. Those extra murmurs actually help A LOT.

I do however have an issue with your arguments period. you started off with a lie. A fake story. To drive the pitty party. It wasnt constructive. 2 people took you seriously and offered help to which you admited you lied.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

I hear you, but my post was a suggestion.

And I respected it. But then you hit me with this:

3 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

you started off with a lie. A fake story. To drive the pitty party. It wasnt constructive. 2 people took you seriously and offered help to which you admited you lied.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I have fought rank 5 Liches before, and they SUCK. They are just extremely unfun. If you think the "4 hours" specifically was a lie, that was just me not being specific: when my Lich's rage reset one time, it really did take me four hours to make him show up again, followed by a good six minutes of shooting him to make him actually kneel (including the time spent waiting for him to teleport)

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53 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

So your making a pitty party claiming boo hoo help me kill a 4 hour lich. When in fact you have no issue. Instead you plat public because youre a leach and dont want to help. Gotcha

No. 

Just. No. Stop saying that. In fact, this attitude really needs to end, because it is beyond toxic. 

In a public game, there is no expectation, not official, or unofficial. I could just as easily call you a leech for going in public with the expectation that you are going to get extra murmurs from someone else's lich/sister, even if it isn't convenient for them at the time to stab it. In public games it is normal, and part of life, for people to have different goals. That's just how it is. 

You have an option if you want to go with a group that all has the same goals as you, and that is forming your own group, or joining one where everyone agrees to stab. 

DE will never punish someone for not stabbing their lich, because it isn't leeching. You want to be sure people will, join. a. group. 

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3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

No. 

Just. No. Stop saying that. In fact, this attitude really needs to end, because it is beyond toxic. 

In a public game, there is no expectation, not official, or unofficial. I could just as easily call you a leech for going in public with the expectation that you are going to get extra murmurs from someone else's lich/sister, even if it isn't convenient for them at the time to stab it. In public games it is normal, and part of life, for people to have different goals. That's just how it is. 

You have an option if you want to go with a group that all has the same goals as you, and that is forming your own group, or joining one where everyone agrees to stab. 

DE will never punish someone for not stabbing their lich, because it isn't leeching. You want to be sure people will, join. a. group. 

The nemesis system has changed stop bringing up the old system.

And the same can go for you, stop playing multiplayer if youre just helping yourself

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

The nemesis system has changed stop bringing up the old system.

And the same can go for you, stop playing multiplayer if youre just helping yourself

No, I don't think you understand how this works. 

Multiplayer with public, as in, just jumping into a random game, is going to have different people with different goals. I am the one who is okay with people doing whatever in a public game. 

You are not. 

You are the one who needs to do a pre-arranged multiplayer, not the guy (me) who is live and let live when playing with randoms with different expectations and is prepared to not only solo but carry any mission along with vazarin to pick people up if something goes wrong. And I expect nothing in particular because I don't need those people, and didn't have an arrangement with them in advance. 

I don't know what you mean, either by "bringing up the old system", I am talking about the current system, where many find it more efficient to not stab in a lot of situations. 

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

No, I don't think you understand how this works. 

Multiplayer with public, as in, just jumping into a random game, is going to have different people with different goals. I am the one who is okay with people doing whatever in a public game. 

You are not. 

You are the one who needs to do a pre-arranged multiplayer, not the guy (me) who is live and let live when playing with randoms with different expectations and is prepared to not only solo but carry any mission along with vazarin to pick people up if something goes wrong. And I expect nothing in particular because I don't need those people, and didn't have an arrangement with them in advance. 

With that then its ok to join fissures without relics?

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

With that then its ok to join fissures without relics?

That isn't a valid comparison in my opinion, but no offense I think you are missing the overall point here. 

Sometimes I stab, sometimes I don't, sometimes the people I am with in a rando game stab, sometimes they don't. 

And sometimes their decision isn't the most efficient for me. Sometimes my decision isn't the most efficient for them, but we all have an understanding we are jumping into a game with a bunch of people we don't know, where we may not have the same goals for our lich. I say at the end of the day, even if you could prove you were right about efficiency or etiquette, you are talking about trying to herd cats. 

It's just not possible to expect public games to ever be anything but barely controlled chaos most of the time. You could get everyone who reads reddit, facebook, twitter, and the forums regularly to do it your way, and I guarantee you it still wouldn't be that many of the players. That's why I say, if you don't want a chaotic mess, plan a group.

You'll never control the behavior of a clowder of cats. 

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8 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

That isn't a valid comparison in my opinion, but no offense I think you are missing the overall point here. 

Sometimes I stab, sometimes I don't, sometimes the people I am with in a rando game stab, sometimes they don't. 

And sometimes their decision isn't the most efficient for me. Sometimes my decision isn't the most efficient for them, but we all have an understanding we are jumping into a game with a bunch of people we don't know, where we may not have the same goals for our lich. I say at the end of the day, even if you could prove you were right about efficiency or etiquette, you are talking about trying to herd cats. 

It's just not possible to expect public games to ever be anything but barely controlled chaos most of the time. You could get everyone who reads reddit, facebook, twitter, and the forums regularly to do it your way, and I guarantee you it still wouldn't be that many of the players. That's why I say, if you don't want a chaotic mess, plan a group.

You'll never control the behavior of a clowder of cats. 

It seems like a fair comparison. I'm not hurting anyone from doing a void mission without a relic. Just like youre arent hurting your team by not giving extra murmurs.

 

Honestly a simple solution DE should do is make it that only the person stabing gets the extra murmurs. That would make you happy because as you said

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

freaking impatient jerks like OP

Which means you hate this topic.

And thats you calling me a jerk before any of this began and I was trying to help. Nothing I said previously was jerkish

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52 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This is in theory a fair point that I would in theory like to debate. The problem is that I can see your side of the argument, but you can't see mine:

If I am not stabbing my Lich, it is because the Lich will rank up to a point where it becomes unfun and PAINFUL to fight. I can do it, I have all the mods, all the weapons, all the archguns to kill any Lich. But it's slow boring and tedious, it literally takes as long to do a mission as to kill a rank 5 Lich.

The end result is we take it to the forums. We just keep making thread after thread where all we do is go over the same thing: Someone calls a Not-Stabber a leech, other people defend Not-Stabbing because you're supposed to play games for fun, we start a flame war, mods may or may not get involved, and nobody budges from their position.

Every now and then somebody might bring up that this is ultimately DE's fault that we get into this position in the first place. The REAL issue isn't the trade-off of taking a gamble. No, the issue is that the rest of the squad gets a bonus if you gamble. Thus the rest of the squad is incentivized to pressure you into gambling. That's not good game design, you should not have an incentive to pressure other people in your squad into taking a deal.

Imagine how whack it would be if you gained a bonus if the other person Converts their Lich, but nothing if they Vanquish their Lich. Imagine just how insane that would be. The stupid ten bonus murmurs are that same problem

You hear that @(PSN)draco_86

This may be true.

My question to you is... How are you running your lich/sisters? It is really easy to get them finished off by rank 3 and worst case scenario rank 4. Rank 5 is really not where things end up most of the time.


First planet:
Play survival mission then play mobile defense. This should give enough murmurs to unlock requiem 1.
Stab Lich/Sister with this mod equipped and proceed to the next phase. You either learn slot 1 or you learn that the first requiem is for slot 2 or 3.

Second planet:
Play survival mission, mobile defense and random missions until you get your second requiem unlocked. Recommended to do join team games whenever possible to increase odds of squads hitting their lich.
Once you know the second requiem slot it in either 2 (if the first was identified) or 1 (if the first wasn't identified)
From this information you can slot in Oull in the last remaining unknown slot unless you get the worst RNG which is requiem 1 and 2 do not work in slot 1, in which case your last stab will have a 50% chance of being correct.

Third planet:
Either get enough murmurs to unlock the third and final requiem or get enough murmurs to spawn your sister/lich.
Using Oull you most likely will clear your lich at this stage. Worst option possible you'll move on to phase 4.

Fourth planet:
Worst case scenario here. There is no reason you should not know the full combination for your lich/sister at this point even without Oull.

Fifth planet:
This is the failure planet and you should be ashamed for not figuring out your combination by now. The only time you would ever realistically end up here is if you pull terrible RNG and spawn your lich before unlocking the first requiem mod AND you don't get requiem 1 or 2 in slot 1. 

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Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Voltage was suggesting ending the controversy once and for all, by giving teammates ten murmurs when someone else causes a lich to run off period, even if they didn't actually try a requiem order stab at all.

They need a stab or release option as these sisters have a annoying little pattern of spawning at the last minute. So it doesnt just sit there bleed out for a 1 minute

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

They need a stab or release option as these sisters have a annoying little pattern of spawning at the last minute. So it doesnt just sit there bleed out for a 1 minute

Honestly the solution is really simple. 

If you stab without a requiem mod equipped then the lich/sister should not level up. It is really that simple.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

Hear me out. I feel the nemesis system is like a potluck*. We all team up, farm words and work towards a common goal.

Always taking a chance on your nemesis by trying a word pays off for you and the whole team.

When someone refuses to help and just lets the nemesis bleed out it takes it longer for another to spawn and it takes it longer to reach another word.

Besides the extra push helps out so much it cuts the farm in half.

If you arent going to bring something to the table then play solo. You'll get the same amount of hounds. Unless you're only doing it to eat others food.

 

*a meal or party to which each of the guests contributes a dish

For the most part you are correct. Generally people stab their liches/sisters because they want the extra murmurs. It is fairly uncommon for people to not stab. Typically this occurs only when players roll bad RNG and get their lich/sister spawning before they unlock the next tier of requiem and don't want to lose the aggression of the current level, but then you have people who don't stab because they're afraid of ranking them up (which is valid for lower level players for sure).

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3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Honestly the solution is really simple. 

If you stab without a requiem mod equipped then the lich/sister should not level up. It is really that simple.

This should honestly be given to DE has a solution! Along with the other about fleeing gives the 10 extra as well.

It becomes a win win for all

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

This should honestly be given to DE has a solution! Along with the other about fleeing gives the 10 extra as well.

It becomes a win win for all

Yep I am pretty astonished that it doesn't work this way TBH. 

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Just now, Leqesai said:

Yep I am pretty astonished that it doesn't work this way TBH. 

Really I hope DE sees that cause if the community is as torn as its claimed this would solve it.

Or in thr alternative only the stabber gets the murmurs.  But your idea is awesome

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29 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

And thats you calling me a jerk before any of this began and I was trying to help. Nothing I said previously was jerkish

I admit, simply seeing this thread put me in a bad mood. Neither of us were really giving each other any credit. If we want to start over and meet each other halfway, I am willing

 

Either way:

26 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

My question to you is... How are you running your lich/sisters?

I'm not sure what you mean. Load up on corrosive or viral damage with as much crit as possible, and just start killing Grineer. I'm not sure what are you asking-

26 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

First planet:
Play survival mission then play mobile defense. This should give enough murmurs to unlock requiem 1.

There's no Survival on Earth. Even if there was, 20 murmurs (the max from two missions) is NOT enough to unlock Requiem #1. Which means I'm going into mission #3 without any unvieled Requiems. But 20 murmurs IS enough to enrage a Lich (heck, it's technically possible for a Lich to spawn on mission #1), and that in turn means I can fight a Lich with no unvieled Requiems.

THAT'S where the friction keeps happening. THAT'S the kind of people OP doesn't like, people who don't stab Liches with no unvieled Requiems. Because OP doesn't agree with us on this:

26 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Fifth planet:
This is the failure planet and you should be ashamed for not figuring out your combination by now. The only time you would ever realistically end up here is if you pull terrible RNG and spawn your lich before unlocking the first requiem mod AND you don't get requiem 1 or 2 in slot 1. 

I would NEVER willingly end up here. The only way I would ever end up here is if I stab a Lich BEFORE unlocking Requiem #1. Which, it seems, is what OP wants me to do

 

Thankfully we seem to have found some common ground on this:

23 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Honestly the solution is really simple. 

If you stab without a requiem mod equipped then the lich/sister should not level up. It is really that simple.

18 minutes ago, (PSN)draco_86 said:

This should honestly be given to DE has a solution! Along with the other about fleeing gives the 10 extra as well.

It becomes a win win for all

 

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