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Hello,

This post is about limitations on what becomes a prime warframe.

-Personally, I don’t care for prime warfrmaes as much as others, I have nearly all of the frames and I still use a regular Valkyr and a regular astilla because I have formed them, I like them the way they are at this time and I don’t see enough of an improvement to switch to the prime versions at this time.  

-So with this noted I don’t believe that you should prime every warframe. Some of them I am fine with like valk, frost, rhino, yarelli, even chroma because to get them there is no specific mission type you need to do. (of course, this reasoning excludes chroma because you do quests and as a result you get him). But warframes like inaros, nidus, khora, Grendel, hilddryn, ivara, and protea where you have to do a specific mission type to hunt them, and it takes some effort I think you should just leave them alone and not prime them because you then get rid of the experience of hunting for a specific frame that you can’t just buy from others as you can with prime frames. I do realize that this means that people might be annoyed trying to get these frames, but I think it makes it more desirable to the player; for example, when I was hunting for ivara it took me days to get all her parts, but it made me want to use her more because I hunted for her. so for newer players they won’t have this happen because they might just buy ivara prime parts from others and only go after ivara because they are a rank 29 trying to get to rank 30. Also, you get rid of the reason to do those specific mission types.

 

-I would also like to see in the future a frame that you can’t buy, and you must hunt for. What I mean by this is that currently anyone could go out buy platinum and buy any warframe from the market or can go out and buy whatever prime frame is active from the market for real money. And you can’t rush the building of their parts/main print. So having a unique frame where you can’t buy it and can’t rush the construction would be cool.

Thank you for your time

roxydog1

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Prime access is part of DE's business model. No one is forced into buying or farming primes, and the minor stat buffs and aesthetic is completely subjective to the player.

My only criticism is how many primes are easier to obtain than the base, but that's it. DE won't stop selling these, and I wouldn't want them to either, else they find something to monetize that we might not like to the former.

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I'm sorry...i don't get it, you say that you don't want/feel like you should farm primes and because of this everyone should play like you? 

what if i want a Protea prime? what if i want a Sevagoth prime? 

Let's take the last frame to go prime as an example: Gara. 

she came out the 12/10/2017 and got primed the 25/05/2021. 

after 4 whole years of nothing why shouldn't i get the prime version? Just because you had an hard time farming said frame 4 years ago? what?

5 hours ago, roxydog1 said:

so for newer players they won’t have this happen because they might just buy ivara prime parts from others and only go after ivara because they are a rank 29 trying to get to rank 30.

And what's wrong with that? you're askind DE to get rid of primes because new players will get the primes before the normal frame? is that enough of an excuse to not make primes anymore? lol

What about... you keep playing like you want and like, you still use your normal frames and normal weapons as you're entitled to do since it's your account and your way of playing the game and don't ask DE to ruin the primes just because you want to force players to play like you? 

Just Saying Come On GIF by A Little Late With Lilly Singh

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2 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Sevagoth prime

That make me chuckle. No offense, whatever floats your boat.

 

As for OP:
I want more, more and more. I want to buy Paraceis, Tenet/Kuva weapons, skins (not bundle!) etc.

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1 minute ago, quxier said:

That make me chuckle. No offense, whatever floats your boat.

to be honest it was just to make my point go across, i kinda hate Sevagoth's gameplay. lol 

brought him at lvl 30 and left it there to take dust.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

to be honest it was just to make my point go across, i kinda hate Sevagoth's gameplay. lol 

brought him at lvl 30 and left it there to take dust.

Lol, same here, I bought him from plat (not real money), leveled to 30, tried few stuffs from Helminth and subsumed it.

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Hello,

thank you for your reply, it is very insightful but it appears that you got the wrong idea from it. Basically, you misunderstood what I meant. So, I will try to clarify to the best of my ability.

1.

On 2021-07-20 at 1:38 AM, (PSN)max141064 said:

you say that you don't want/feel like you should farm primes and because of this everyone should play like you?

You misunderstood my meaning; I am fine with farming prime frames and other prime stuff. I just don’t think everything should be a prime frame/item. For example, I don’t think nidus should be a prime frame because to get nidus you have to do 1 specific mission type (infested salvage) which has no other purpose in this game. So, if you make a nidus prime you have done a few things: 1. You have deemed the mission worthless and no one will really play it, 2. You have made it immensely easier to get the frame. Also, a side note I don’t care if people play like me or not. rather I care about people having a fun experience playing a particular game and if you are just buying your way though it what experience are you really having.

2.

On 2021-07-20 at 1:38 AM, (PSN)max141064 said:

Just because you had an hard time farming said frame 4 years ago? what?

I had a decently easy time farming gara (regular) it was not very difficult or hard, but it was insightful in learning more about the game and having fun. Now as to farming for gara prime I opened about 10 relics and had all of her components, had her cooking in 10 min, 3 days later I had her leveled and now she is sitting in my inventory collecting dust like several other frames(reg,prime,umbra). With procuring gara prime I did not learn about gameplay, or had a fun game experience, in fact I had no game experience from getting gara prime.

3.

On 2021-07-20 at 1:38 AM, (PSN)max141064 said:

you're askind DE to get rid of primes because new players will get the primes before the normal frame? is that enough of an excuse to not make primes anymore? lol

As I have dictated above, I am not trying to stop the prime warframes and stuff, rather I am trying to limit it. Basically, make the frames we can easily get like frost, valk, rhino, limbo, revenant, yareli, xaku, ect. Into primes; but don’t make the frames we have to put effort into like ivara, inaros, nidus, hildryn, ect into prime frames. Essenchally, I am saying SOME (if not most) yes primes, but SOME no primes.

 

And again, I am not wanting players to play like me. I want players to have fun and have a gaming experience witch you cant really get if you buy your way though. and a way of seeing this is think back to when you played the game for something and when you bought the something, witch did you enjoy in the end and witch was more about i now have the item lets let it collect dust (one of the reasons i have 500k ish endo and 500k ish kuva).

Thank you for your time and have a nice day

roxydog1

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On 2021-07-20 at 1:15 AM, Deminisis said:

Prime access is part of DE's business model. No one is forced into buying or farming primes, and the minor stat buffs and aesthetic is completely subjective to the player.

My only criticism is how many primes are easier to obtain than the base, but that's it. DE won't stop selling these, and I wouldn't want them to either, else they find something to monetize that we might not like to the former.

Hello deminisis,

Thank you for replying to me. I do agree with many of the things you have pointed out but let me clarify a few portions.

I am not saying to not have prime stuff or prime access. I in fact think it is a good way for any game to make money, rather I don’t think they should make everything primed like ivara, or nidus because this brings down the gaming experience (which should be the goal of the player) and makes portions of the game worthless.

As to your criticism, THAT IS MY EXACT POINT. I got ivara prime in by opening 10-20 relics and someone offered to give me her for chroma prime, whereas it took me a few days to get ivara (regular). In hunting ivara I gained a lot of useful game experience in spy missions and had a bit of fun; whereas, ivara prime did not grant any game experience or fun. This has happened with inaros, gara, and I expect this to be for nidus and khora in the future

Thank you and have a nice day.

roxydog1

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3 minutes ago, roxydog1 said:

I don’t think nidus should be a prime frame because to get nidus you have to do 1 specific mission type (infested salvage) which has no other purpose in this game. So, if you make a nidus prime you have done a few things: 1. You have deemed the mission worthless and no one will really play it, 2. You have made it immensely easier to get the frame

I don't know the exact amount of quests the game has but i think you know that even with ALL OF THOSE missions we still end us doing the usual 10/15 mission to farm, lvl up, get credits, etc etc etc. 

Because it's easier for us and for DE to give us specific places, specific missions and specific layouts to make us farm stuff. 

So...with this in mind...right now, in this exact moment, every player is doing something in one of those 10/15 missions instead of doing every mission they can get their hands on.

of course most missions will be empty and feel abandoned. it's normal, you use the mission for that specific thing you needed and move on unless the mission is a good spot to farm stuff. 

the same thing happends with frame game-modes. 

of course DE made a new mode for farming Nidus, of course they had their feedback from the community and of course since the community didn't like the game mode they moved on to other stuff, other game modes, other frames. 

it's inevitable that in a game like this most frame missions will get ignored after a few months. 

and just because of this we shouldn't get Nidus prime? because of a failed mission-concept that people didn't like? 

Or Hildryn, people liked her mission! liked how to farm her. but after that you just move on. 

15 minutes ago, roxydog1 said:

I had her leveled and now she is sitting in my inventory collecting dust like several other frames(reg,prime,umbra). With procuring gara prime I did not learn about gameplay, or had a fun game experience, in fact I had no game experience from getting gara prime.

It happends in a game where the characters are always added into the game. 

sooner or later you'll get a character that you don't like to play with. i have MANY in warframe. but i got the prime variants and even made a build on most of them! 

Nobody gets a "game experience" from farming frames...

what experience did you get from farming Nidus? you learned how to stay put next to a oxigen tank while shooting at some infested? cool. 

what experience did you get from farming Ivara? you learned to use your ears for cashes? cool.

23 minutes ago, roxydog1 said:

but don’t make the frames we have to put effort into like ivara, inaros, nidus, hildryn, ect into prime frames

Effort is a magical thing in this game.

the only effort you have to put in this game is the time you can spend on it...literally. 

to this day there is STILL no frame that needs real effort or real skill to get. 

Not even Baruuk that is the only one that is hidden behind the profit taker. you literally just need to put different elements on your weapons and....just attack. 

that's not effort. 

 

 

 

 

i legit think you're barking at the wroooooong tree, here. 

the problem is not that some frames are "harder" to get, because again...they just need tipe, there is literally NO difficoulty in this game when it comes to frames, just RNG and time. 

the problem is not that since a few frames ahve their quests with lore etc etc, we shouldn't get the prime variant. 

 

The problem (you see) here is that farming prime parts takes less time than the normal variant. 

and let me tell you...even that is debatable. because RNG is a thing and at least missions HAVE to give you at least one piece of the frame, reliks? no, there is 6 possibilities and even if you max out the relik you're still under heavy RNG and don't get the thing you want for SEVERAL runs.

Maybe you should ask to change the relik system or getting rid of it all together, not asking to not make certain frames prime because it takes effort to hear some cashes make some noise. 

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12 minutes ago, roxydog1 said:

Hello deminisis,

Thank you for replying to me. I do agree with many of the things you have pointed out but let me clarify a few portions.

I am not saying to not have prime stuff or prime access. I in fact think it is a good way for any game to make money, rather I don’t think they should make everything primed like ivara, or nidus because this brings down the gaming experience (which should be the goal of the player) and makes portions of the game worthless.

As to your criticism, THAT IS MY EXACT POINT. I got ivara prime in by opening 10-20 relics and someone offered to give me her for chroma prime, whereas it took me a few days to get ivara (regular). In hunting ivara I gained a lot of useful game experience in spy missions and had a bit of fun; whereas, ivara prime did not grant any game experience or fun. This has happened with inaros, gara, and I expect this to be for nidus and khora in the future

Thank you and have a nice day.

roxydog1

After reading your replies, I think most of your criticism boils down to:

1. Primes are easier to get than base.

2. You don't like Primes that complicate story lore about certain base frames.

I get where you're coming from, but I think prime access has just become a snowball effect that's not going to stop. DE is Incentivized by money and compelled by the expectation by the community that all frames will be primed. To leave a prime out now would only cause more problems.

I really don't see a fix to any of this considering how deep we are into relics and all the primes that come from them.

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I mean...they changed the key system into the relik system when the key system was in game for years and years and yeras...it's not likely that they will change it again but it's possible. 

if a lot of people talk about it. 

Edited by (PSN)max141064
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There will always be an incentive to acquire the normal variant of a frame because Helminth exists. Prime Warframes draw in a lot of money through Prime Access, and a ton of hype as fans see their favorite frame get a beautiful golden variant with upgraded stats. To not prime specific Warframes for the sole reason that they are the only reason to play certain content (which in some cases they aren't) is not only irrational from a sales perspective, but also incredibly disappointing to people that enjoy those Warframes.

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This is just a bad idea all around. Your reasoning is flawed.

First of all - how do you define "effort"? Your story about getting Ivara is very subjective - I got mine in just a few attempts (back when I crafted her). You seem to have somewhat bonded with her because of how long it took you to get her parts, and that's ok, but another player would just get annoyed. I run a solo dojo, so getting the resources to get all the dojo warframes took effort and grind - how does that compare to the experience of somebody who just joined a long-established clan and only needed to go to the lab and copy the blueprints? Untill recently Oberon was one of the easiest warframes to get, but they moved him to railjack missions - does that mean that in your opinion Oberon Prime wasn't a mistake before, but now it is?

Your reasoning is flawed.

Prime warframes get vaulted, and sometimes unvaulted for a short time. New players may not even have the ability to conveniently farm and craft the prime of their favorite frame, for a long time. Also, new players definately don't start by learning the ins and outs of trading plat and relics, so using the trade is not an argument. 

Your reasoning is flawed.

There are plenty of reasons for somebody to try to get the base frame with the prime already existing: the aforementioned vaultings, helminth, mastery, profile completion. Just because those are not good enough reasons for you, doesn't mean that it is fair to completely disregard them.

Your reasoning is flawed.

So people can buy prime frames as they release. So what? If that's what they choose, and we are not dealing with predatory monetization bullcrap, more power to them. For you the experience of grinding for a frame may have some value - for others it may be nothing but a hinderance to their fun. If these people believe that they have more fun with the game when they straight up buy the frame, you don't really get to say they don't. Also - from the moment of their release, every single base warframe can be purchased at any point and forever - what the Hek are you even arguing about with this? What's the difference between buying a prime and buying a base frame?

On 2021-07-22 at 8:40 AM, roxydog1 said:

if you are just buying your way though it what experience are you really having.

Answer: the one you choose to have.

Your reasoning is flawed.

You responded stating that you do not want other playesr to play the game the same way you do, and yet you completely fail to acknowledge one simple fact that completely demolishes your entire point: nobody is forcing you to use prime warframes. Hek, you even mentioned yourself, how you use the base Valkyr. Just because you don't care about a specific part of the game, you advocate for severely limiting that part? Hey DE, if you're reading this, RandomTenno123453 doesn't like railjack, so you're better off just trashing the thing. Also, VayHekBestWaifu69 once told me that he doesn't care about deimos, so no more updates to that as well plz. 

The reason why I repeated "Your reasoning is flawed" so many times is this: your entire point hinges on the fact that you personally do not like certain prime warframes. You have some personal stories about acquiring certain frames, and for some logic-eluding reason, that makes you unhappy that prime variants of these frames exist. And that is despite the fact that nobody is even making you acknowledge their existance (let alone make you use them). From there, you started building up this weird philosophy in an attempt to justify your idea, but unfortunately you only gave them surface-level amount of thought. The fact that among all the replies to this thread there in not a single one that agrees with you on any level, as well as the fact that your posts have received zero likes in this thread should tell you all about how valid your points are.

And finally: friggin Nudus Prime is not going to do anything to the lore. The fact that base and prime variants of warframes exist in the first place already makes zero sense, unless you want to go for the explanation of the Prime being a more robust version made before they started mass-producing cheaper copies (or vice-versa - the base being a prototype, therefore less refined).

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Hello. Some interesting thoughts, but ultimately I disagree with your premise and conclusions. You may personally not care about Primes, but what about other people? You would want to personally deny other people the enjoyment of seeing their favourite Frames from getting visual upgrades and polish that comes with Prime? On the basis that... some people, might not do the quest to get the original non Prime version? What about the players that did all the content and got all the originals but still want the Prime? Punishing them, because some people want to gate keep? Other players don't necessarily play how you do, and whilst there are some positives and negatives to such systems (the experience one gets whilst trying to acquire normal Ivara vs Ivara Prime) you also forget... every single normal Warframe can also be gotten with Plat and those experiences skipped anyway... or RNG, like I got my Ivara after 10 Spies, and I got one Khora after 2 SO attempts... 

So you are basically taking a personal idiosyncrasy you have, then arbitrarily deciding that certain Warframe's shouldn't get new aesthetics/animations, accompanying weapons, new armour set/syandana (Accessories that accompany PA). Basically you are removing choices from other players, and I do understand and sympathise with your justifications but ehh... I think you would be better off advocating for better incentives to encourage players to go down the path less travelled rather than denying them choices to coerce them into the game play experience you personally believe is optimal.

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So let's break down some reasons why this idea isn't great:

-Some activities are just not fun for some people. I don't just mean people lack enjoyment, I mean some activities actively make people unhappy when they play them. If 4 years have gone by since release and you still haven't gotten a particular frame, that's a strong indicator that you will never get that frame. Having a backup method for people to attain frames after a certain period is perfectly reasonable.

-Some content 'requires' certain frames. I'm using 'requires' loosely, but everybody knows what I mean. Completing a high difficulty Stealth mission without one of the limited selection of 'stealth' frames is incredibly annoying, and some of those options are much better than others. Steel Path missions sometimes need careful selection of frames. Maybe there's a particular piece of cheese you'd like to try, such as building a 99% dodge Xaku so you can run level 9999 endless survival missions.

-Counterintuitive acquisition. What's perhaps the best frame for running difficult spy missions? Ivara. How do you get Ivara? Having already done lots of difficult spy missions. What frame would give an excellent introduction to k-driving? Yareli. How do you get Yareli? Show off your excellent k-drive skills. This isn't really a super strong argument on its' own, but it is worth noting.

-RNG. I know it's been said a million times before, and the answer is usually just 'grind more', but let's not pretend that the RNG can't be downright cruel occasionally. From personal experience, I got Chroma about 2 years before Saryn, despite Saryn parts being one of the components for Chroma. I'm not expecting sympathy for a frame that actually has a fairly reasonable droprate, but the discrepancy between the two illustrates that RNG really can just be silly sometimes, and for some people it absolutely is past the point of what can be considered a reasonable wall to keep pushing against.

-The Primes are not the same as base frames. Base frames and Prime frames are both needed for MR, especially given frames give double the MR xp that weapons do. More importantly, primes cannot be subsumed.

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Primes should've included the original frame in their build requirements. I always thought it should feel like priming your Warframe instead of just disregarding all the work you put into the regular frame for a newer version. As a new player it didn't sit well with me. It almost felt like a waste of time when I got my Mag prime BP only to realise that all the work I put into the regular version was for nothing. 

This is how most games would've done it. WF does things it's own way though. 

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On 2021-07-21 at 11:40 PM, roxydog1 said:

And again, I am not wanting players to play like me. I want players to have fun and have a gaming experience witch you cant really get if you buy your way though. and a way of seeing this is think back to when you played the game for something and when you bought the something, witch did you enjoy in the end and witch was more about i now have the item lets let it collect dust (one of the reasons i have 500k ish endo and 500k ish kuva).

That's you dictating to others what is or is not Fun, when that is subjective.

You may want to think you are not dictating playstyles, but your prose begs to differ.

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On 2021-07-19 at 10:25 PM, roxydog1 said:

-So with this noted I don’t believe that you should prime every warframe. Some of them I am fine with like valk, frost, rhino, yarelli, even chroma because to get them there is no specific mission type you need to do. (of course, this reasoning excludes chroma because you do quests and as a result you get him). But warframes like inaros, nidus, khora, Grendel, hilddryn, ivara, and protea where you have to do a specific mission type to hunt them, and it takes some effort I think you should just leave them alone and not prime them because you then get rid of the experience of hunting for a specific frame that you can’t just buy from others as you can with prime frames.

First off, Inaros and Ivara are already primed.  Second, you say that you say that you have to do a specific mission type to get them as well as others like Hildryn, Nidus, Khora, which is absolutely true, but at complete odds with your previous statement that Valkyr, Frost, Rhino, Yareli, and Chroma you somehow don't need to do a specific mission type?  Three of the frames in your first list come only from specific assassination missions.  Also you listed Chroma, then immediately said he didn't belong on that list because you do a quest, so why include Yareli?  Minor technical point, Protea doesn't require doing a specific mission type because "Granum Void" is just an optional extra objective available in all Corpus ship based missions.

Your logic is just all over the place here.

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I disagree, mainly because i really enjoy the prime access and new primes. I'm even of the opinion, that if DE expands, they should increase the frequency. Mainly because as of right now, new frames can take up to 4 years to see their prime. Which in my opinion, is a bit long. Things happen in life, 4 years wait time is over the top 😂

Edited by (XBOX)TyeGoo
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On 2021-07-22 at 1:51 AM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

There will always be an incentive to acquire the normal variant of a frame because Helminth exists. Prime Warframes draw in a lot of money through Prime Access, and a ton of hype as fans see their favorite frame get a beautiful golden variant with upgraded stats. To not prime specific Warframes for the sole reason that they are the only reason to play certain content (which in some cases they aren't) is not only irrational from a sales perspective, but also incredibly disappointing to people that enjoy those Warframes.

This ^

 

While it is true that a majority of players will farm some of the grindier frames as prime before normals, that doesn't mean that they won't come back to farm the normal variants since the Helminth system has tangible gameplay benefit to acquiring the normals. I agree with basically everything in the quoted post. Primes shouldn't be skipped for lore reasons, not only for money but also because many players get excited for specific primes they want, and to deny them that would be a huge lost opportunity.

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Although I understand what the OP is trying to say ,

Which is , frames that have an intricate storyline / quest and "incentivised procurement method " (player is incentivised to play a certain node to try and get it ) for players to experience should not be available by an alternate way in which players lose this experience.

I disagree with it as a concept.

The obvious commercial reason aside (DE makes money from PA) , the loss of experience is a poor excuse. You only lose the grind. The quest still exists , and recently with helminth there is still reason to farm the frames. And even without the primes one could purchase the base frame with plat.

Sorry , not gonna support this.

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