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Did The Gradivus Event Offer New Gameplay?


alocrius
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Technically yes.  For all intents and purposes, no.  Still running down mostly familiar corridors (the new tileset was cool) shooting the same enemies as before.  What I did find was that my allies the Corpus just got in the way.  All hundred plus missions were a roflstomp that took only a few minutes apiece to speedrun through. While fighting coop with another faction may present mild novelty, it's not like we need the help.  LIvestream 17, Steve was ham'ing it up about how awesome the new gameplay was.  Sadly, to me it was a lackluster affair.  If you are new to the game, sure, this content would be great.  If it leads to the creation of a neutral faction/system that we can fight along side of and defend I could get totally and completely behind that.  As it is, I do not relish further fighting alongside my enemies.  

 

Leading up to the event, I actually was excited about fighting alongside/against Alad and his robo-dogs... and the grineer looked like they had a new captain unit as well.. but they never showed.  When and where are these new units showing up? On a positive note, Alad is a promising character and the voice acting was very good.

 

So my question is: Is this the gameplay update you have all been waiting for?  Seeing how as technically, besides survival (no one I know plays conclave), this is the first actual gameplay update that isn't simply a new tileset.

Edited by alocrius
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Extermination is definitely the simplest and most effective way to test how the game handles having factions fighting each other on that scale and as allies to the player, but it is also definitely the least interesting.  Maybe if they were level 150 or something, then the NPCs would really make a difference.

 

That said, I think there is a lot of potential for this style of mission for, say, escort and defense missions.  Maybe you're accompanying a diplomat and his bodyguards as an extra security measure, or you have a Corpus mole you're protecting while he uses his clearances to break into an otherwise unhackable computer system.  Maybe you're working with a colony's defense force to hold off a swarm of infestation from getting in and attacking the civilian population, with the infestation tearing down the gates and barricades bit by bit as they try to force their way through multiple defensive lines.

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These should all be in the game right now.

My point exactly, why is DE so reticent to introduce actually novel gameplay elements.  The event indicates that they might be speculating about the merest possibility of, at some point, introducing new gameplay elements.  Why is updating gameplay such a gigantic hurdle for Warframe?  Everyone agrees the potential of this game is huge, but it seems it will never fulfill its promise, at this rate.  Will it actually take another year before we see gameplay with some semblance of tactics or strategy?  It's just too one dimensional.

Edited by alocrius
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It was too short, there was not enough enemies, and no level scalling. I had suggested to double the number of enemies, since some of them were being killed by the allies.

 

 

Why is updating gameplay such a gigantic hurdle for Warframe? 

 

 

Probably because the maps are complex, and use some random numbers in their building. They are made of parts which repeat themselves after some patterns, with some small random variations. Theres some risk of these random patterns affect npcs path and some npcs might spawn inside a box.

 

Also I guess their programming team is not big as teams from big companies.

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...Also I guess their programming team is not big as teams from big companies.

I think they mentioned in the livestream 17 they quadrupled their staff.  They are supposedly working on polishing current mission types but I don't get the impression it's a priority.  The fundamental problem, that is routinely ignored, is that Warframe desperately needs a new meta-game system with new mechanics to round out the gameplay and give players a reason to keep playing other than collecting weapons/frames.  After you "progress" a ways this becomes painfully obvious.  Fighting alongside Corpus and Grineer ain't what this game is missing.  Warframe is a glorified, half-baked potato.  You heard it here first.  

 

This message has been brought to you by The League of Bitter Space Wizards.

Edited by alocrius
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I enjoyed the shield boost I got from Corpus, but quickly changed to Grineer.

Even when dashing through the levels, I didn't feel like I got to do much more than parkour.

Seriously I only got a few hits off and it was hard to tell what they were shooting at with them all clustered around. I probably just should have seen if I could unequip all weapons and coast through Metal Gear style.That at least might have been fun.
As for the rewards, I fought along side the Grineer and all I got was this stupid emblem. Maybe I should use Grineer colors and see if I can talk to the grunts around a water cooler.

Although I did get a few elusive parts for my carrier build.

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I did feel they were sugarcoating it just a tiny bit during the livestream, not that it wasn't fun, but it was just exterminate with a few extra npc's running around and giving you a hand every now and then on a unique tileset.

 

While they should bring back Invasion missions, they definitely need to spice them up a little. Like maybe instead of running across the whole map and leaving the npc's in the dust, it should just take place on one big Defense mission map, and both factions just charge each other at once. Or maybe even a Battlefront II style conquest mission where you have to capture nodes before the enemy wipes out your faction's reinforcements.

Edited by Paradoxbomb
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Why is updating gameplay such a gigantic hurdle for Warframe?

Because DE would have to remake this game from scratch.  And this is not a slam on DE, it's the issue of coding.  Very little coding is as flexible as programmers want it to be.  So to 'update gameplay' would have to change what's happening now.  It's not a small thing.  Why do you think Damage/Armour 2.0 is taking so long to actually come out and fix things?

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Because DE would have to remake this game from scratch. And this is not a slam on DE, it's the issue of coding. Very little coding is as flexible as programmers want it to be. So to 'update gameplay' would have to change what's happening now. It's not a small thing. Why do you think Damage/Armour 2.0 is taking so long to actually come out and fix things?

Let's please not use the "programming is hard" argument. All jobs are hard.

DE hires/has programmers, and this is their only job. If they didn't want to/couldn't program they shouldn't have tried to make a videogame and take our $.

The game needs gameplay (and context, like Conflict or Cells) immediately. I think the reason we're not getting it in the game is bc we don't demand it.

Gameplay doesn't make $ and content (frames, weapons) does. (Short term at least)

We need to be more vocal and united about what we want. Go read a livestreams question thread. Half of the questions are from ppl with 2 forum posts about will ash's blade storm ever get a cool electric sword effect. Or if we can get Cloud from FF series to be a warframe.

When a large portion of our community is asking for a sugar fix, how will we ever get a balanced meal?

Edited by notionphil
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They should take the event's invasion concept and apply it to invasion hazards in the rest of the game.

 

I LOVED the anarchy and combat between the factions, it was much more thrilling than the current invasion hazard where the invading enemies eventually replace the previous group altogether.

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Did I say 'hard'?  I said time consuming.  Reworking a game takes a lot of time, even if you're a master coder.

 

The real issue isn't the complexity or duration of coding; its that a very large % of the programmer staff is apparently working on other things besides gameplay.

 

...Things that are arguably far less important.

 

Everything takes a long time (or is hard) if you're doing 10 other things at the same time.

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The real issue isn't the complexity or duration of coding; its that a very large % of the programmer staff is apparently working on other things besides gameplay.

 

...Things that are arguably far less important.

 

Everything takes a long time (or is hard) if you're doing 10 other things at the same time.

But what people are asking is change, and changing the code will require using the same code to do new things, and that will take time to see what breaks, see what it changes other than what they want to change, then debug what breaks, restest it, see what that breaks...  So on and so forth.  It's not difficulty, it's time.

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But what people are asking is change, and changing the code will require using the same code to do new things, and that will take time to see what breaks, see what it changes other than what they want to change, then debug what breaks, restest it, see what that breaks...  So on and so forth.  It's not difficulty, it's time.

 

you're arguing semantics...

 

My point is, let's not use the argument that the reason new gameplay isn't being added is because of difficulty/time etc. That's a silly argument bc if the game requires it - it has to be done regardless of how long/difficult it is.

 

New gameplay isn't being added bc DE has other priorities (which many veteran players don't agree with) not bc it takes too long, is too hard etc.

 

If you want to disagree with that, that's fine. But please stop arguing semantics. You understand my point.

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Technically yes.  For all intents and purposes, no.  Still running down mostly familiar corridors (the new tileset was cool) shooting the same enemies as before.

 

 

So my question is: Is this the gameplay update you have all been waiting for?  Seeing how as technically, besides survival (no one I know plays conclave), this is the first actual gameplay update that isn't simply a new tileset.

 

"New Gameplay" to me doesn't mean new things to shoot. It means new reasons to shoot, (i.e Objectives)

 

The moment you stop having fun shooting things in this game is the moment you need to pick up a different game for awhile, and come back once your trigger finger is itchy again.

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"New Gameplay" to me doesn't mean new things to shoot. It means new reasons to shoot, (i.e Objectives)

 

The moment you stop having fun shooting things in this game is the moment you need to pick up a different game for awhile, and come back once your trigger finger is itchy again.

Oh, I know what new gameplay is.  I have a few posts to that effect https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/68907-tenno-foundation-for-martial-excellence/?hl=%2Btenno+%2Bfoundation.  I don't want new things to shoot, that would simply be a sidegrade to the content we have, we only get sidegrades.  I don't want sidegrades.  We are in beta, we should be seeing DE using this little thing called imagination to improvise ANY new gameplay modalities, paradigms, scenarios, conflicts, quests, story driven content, high level content, teamplay content, cells, Jesus anything.  But what we get is this lackluster event that may introduce some derivative, boring gameplay in the distant future.   Well it's not good enough DE, so I will protest to a fault.

 

As has been stated if DE constantly divide their resources into mediocre events and tenno reinforcements gameplay will continue to wallow in limbo as it has since the beginning.  Their producer has told them to not update is death, so they keep squandering their resources with half-assed content updates, meanwhile the game becomes obsolete to loyal, cash spending, invested players.

 

And I'm currently playing the Medieval Total War 2 mod Third Age.  A sweet little game that incorporates this magical, whimsical, elusive thing called "actionable player feedback."  If warframe doesn't evolve I'm done.  I'm just here to chastise incompetence.  I can't coach desire.

Edited by alocrius
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Regarding the whole gameplay discussion they're currently reworking the mission types to make them more engaging (see sabotage) which I'd consider new gameplay elements - they're also working address bugs and netcode things a large portion of this schizophrenic community have kicked and screamed for.  I think S#&$ takes time is all and people just aren't patient - go play other games and come back in a few months.   

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And while I'm on a rant roll, regarding this ephemeral, whimsical elusive thing called "actionable player feedback" and I mean god forbid ANY of THAT noise should make it's way into Warfart©™, because we've all seen how terribly that has worked out for Skyrim, and the Elder Scroll's series as a whole.  And don't say I can't compare them because it's all wizardry baby.  And innumerable other games where the fanbase clearly understands the ethos of a game.  I wouldn't play an unmodded Skyrim or an unmodded Total War, or an unmodded Tribes.  Because the vanilla product has no flavor.  And that's exactly what Warframe has without player input.  No flav'o.   And I don't want to hear about the token contributions of the design council either.  Poor bastards.  Money can't buy you happiness.. or a good game it seems.  Have my histrionics stretched the bounds of credulity yet?  

 

Fight on my goodly Tenno.. Speak truth to institutionalized fun.  Abyssus abyssum invocat.

Edited by alocrius
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I disagree with the OP. I rather enjoyed having NPC allies whom I could coordinate with and defend, as well as use to measure my own effectiveness against. The missions genuinely felt like actual battles instead of dungeon crawls. However, I do believe the enemy forces should have been more numerous/stronger, as the battle looked rather 50/50 and the introduction of even a single Tenno steeply tipped the odds.

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New gameplay?

No, it was still exterminate.

Yes, new REASON to fight.

This shows us the code can,

A) handle multiple maptiles. Multiple enemies .

B) ai bots with different goals.

This is good news

Imagine the scenario of boarding a ship in warzone.

The stage is like the event.

BUT your objective is another. Like, mobile defence. Like rescue, like sabotage.

To make it more interesting, lets say the core is breached. You must reach extraction and exterminate at the same time.

Lets say the map has elevators. Lets say you must use parkour since the ship is on its side, gravity is off line.

Lets say three missions are linked. Lets say we must actually board another ship by jumping in space giving us a new way to fight and new tiles, zero g fighting and special mods, weps and missions.

Lets say all this is linked to story arcs like the event.

DE has a real chance here with our help, to do something cool and great.

Just risk it.

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DE needs to make make a show at this point  that they have even a tiny amount of regard for their own game by releasing a major gameplay update. This bs with the degrading power cores is going to suck.  It's the devs who need to risk it and start improvising original, not derivative gameplay.  The missions they started out with oh so barely even qualify as gameplay, you know I know they know we know they need to go straight back to the freaking drawing board and start fresh because its weaksauce. 

Edited by alocrius
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I did feel they were sugarcoating it just a tiny bit during the livestream, not that it wasn't fun, but it was just exterminate with a few extra npc's running around and giving you a hand every now and then on a unique tileset.

 

While they should bring back Invasion missions, they definitely need to spice them up a little. Like maybe instead of running across the whole map and leaving the npc's in the dust, it should just take place on one big Defense mission map, and both factions just charge each other at once. Or maybe even a Battlefront II style conquest mission where you have to capture nodes before the enemy wipes out your faction's reinforcements.

F**k yes.

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