Alad V continuity problem...

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

you were the first one to be woken up out of the Reservoir

We don’t know if others were woken up correct? So that would make us the only known Tenno awake? 
 

edit: OP May wanna spoiler tag this thread.

[Atsia]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

We don’t know if others were woken up correct? So that would make us the only known Tenno awake? 
 

edit: OP May wanna spoiler tag this thread.

No, we're well aware we aren't the only tenno around. There should multiple voicelines otherwise, and the Fortuna ARG wouldn't make sense if we're the only Tenno around. Plus, the Ghouls comic with Little Duck

 

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

We don’t know if others were woken up correct? So that would make us the only known Tenno awake? 

Well it's never stated in the canon, but that would be a... ridiculously strict way of reading text. To say "if it wasn't explicitly stated to have happened, it is physically impossible to have happened." I find it far... FAR more likely that the Lotus just had Tenno start an evacuation of the Reservoir

Especially since Onkko has an entire Amp market set up for the Tenno, Even with the Unum's precognition, I find it rather absurd he would set that up for just one Tenno

[Butterfly85]

To be honest, the rest of the bosses need the Vay Hek treatment. When we knock him down, we see him actually fly off. 

If the rest of the bosses did something similar or teleport, with a line something like "This isnt finished, I'll get you next time Tenno", it would clear up some of the confusion.

Cant see DE putting in the time to do that unless the rework all the bosses though.

[Sanktai]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Well it's never stated in the canon, but that would be a... ridiculously strict way of reading text. To say "if it wasn't explicitly stated to have happened, it is physically impossible to have happened." I find it far... FAR more likely that the Lotus just had Tenno start an evacuation of the Reservoir

Especially since Onkko has an entire Amp market set up for the Tenno, Even with the Unum's precognition, I find it rather absurd he would set that up for just one Tenno

 

Not to mention the Conclave and Syndicates. While not directly referencing other Tenno (for the most part), it's pretty heavily implied imo. 

[MqToasty]

7 minutes ago, Butterfly85 said:

To be honest, the rest of the bosses need the Vay Hek treatment. When we knock him down, we see him actually fly off. 

If the rest of the bosses did something similar or teleport, with a line something like "This isnt finished, I'll get you next time Tenno", it would clear up some of the confusion.

Cant see DE putting in the time to do that unless the rework all the bosses though.

I kind of agree, but honestly, I don't see Alad V going "I'll get you next time, Tenno!" while jetting away.  I feel he's more likely to play dead for 5 minutes, then open one eye while going "Are they gone yet?  Good, good." before slowly getting back up.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

The thing about Alad is, isn’t he Orokin? The recent trailer hinted at that when that corpus called him “gilded master” that and other innuendos that elude to it. And if he is one of the seven executivers he knows how to transfer  and he could use that to transfer himself into another clone of himself just like the Grineer Queens. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Alright so:

So canonically, during the Alad V Trailer, an small team of Tenno (Rhino/Volt/Banshee and Trin) raided Alad V's lab, they destroyed the porxy that was defending Alad V and Alad V himself was tossed out the window, down to the Gas Gaint. However he didn't die. Due to they are mostly composed mainly of hydrogen and helium, it is likely he fell quite some time, before he was picked up, or he likely grabbed hold of something in the lower levels. People can do a lot of things when they are about to die.

Then during the Patient Zero quest, Alad became a Infested,  as we know the Infestation of a living natural organism, their nanites quickly break down organic tissue and begin to evolve the existing specimen into a new organism with characteristics and functions ideal for survival and self-defense. If they are able to do this so quickly, then the Infested are able to heal wounds, just the same, so while we did KILL Alad V, the Infestation brought him back from the dead.

During the Operation: Tubemen of Regor, We took a Cure (likely they only one that exists) and gave it to Alad V (While, yes, there was a another choice, DE picked the cannon ending, thus was saving his life, end of story). Alad's Infestation had significantly receded ever sense.  

Now, during the Second Dream and Operation: Shadow Debt, Alad V didn't die, we saved his life, it was a debt we owned him after he helped us when we was most venerable, Alad V flees Shadow's Followers and lived for another day.

 

Today, Alad V still is in bed with the Sentients, making Amalgams, we DID NOT kill Alad V, we only killed the Sentient, that was controlling his Base (and likely being controlled by Natah). We in a way, saved Alad Vs life once more. 

It is highly likely that Alad V is no longer our enemy but an Ally.

 

This is the cannon story for Alad V, Remember in-game things (Such as Missions, that kill a target over and over) are not Cannon and are either of two things: One. Simulations made by the Lotus to train Tenno or Two: People who are useing "Clones" (For Grinner) and careful Genetic Makeup (Corpus) to keep making the their Leaders, in case the REAL Leader, does die. 

Or it can just be lazy gamemodes, take your pick.  

[Eyn_Sof]

We didn't actually kill Alad V, just mortally wounded him(i think in the trailer mag throws him out of the window?) -> then he got taken by the infestation, that's how it got all those fancy infested MOAs and drones -> we proceed to kill him again, most likely just hevaily wounding him again and infestation wants to keep it's font of knowledge alive -> in an operation (i think gladivus dilemma?) We were given a choice on what to do with the cure to infestation, either destroy it or protect it so Alad V can cure himself.

Canonically we kill pretty much all bosses at least once. Vor and there being two of him, Vay hek escaping, Tyl regor is leading in the cloning department so i imagine he has quite a lot of contingencies in case of death, We actually don't have any mention of Sargas in later quests, basically most grineer bosses can be cloned, most of corpus bosses are machines or sergeant which can be replaced, most of infested can be regenerated perks of being a hivemind. So far i think only Vor on mercury and Alad V in both cases are the "one time deals".

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

How can you be confused by such a clear cut continuity? He created Valkyr while making Zanuka, but that was actually a 1000 years ago because she was Primed and Primes for every Warframe were always a thing, wink. He died three times and is now being terrorized by a flying sentient monster that is already contained and being dissected inside a Corpus lab. 

[YUNoJump]

3 hours ago, Atsia said:

Ruk was back for Scarlet Spear and other events, Kela is back Dog Days, and Tyl has Tubemen event and Natah quest. The only two bosses that are canonically dead are Vor and Kril.

Ah I knew I’d forget something about Ruk somehow. 
As much as I wish it was, Dog Days probably isn’t canon. If it is canon, I’d argue it comes chronologically before we kill her on Sedna. The Tubemen event is in that weird pseudo-canon “if you didn’t play the event then it doesn’t happen in your game” area, in the same way that the resolution of the event depends on which console you played on. The Natah quest will probably be completed before you kill him. 
Now that I think about it, Vor’s fate is really weird in both directions. You kill him on Mercury, but then he’s alive when you fight him alongside Lech Kril, but then he apparently was killed for real in that fight because he is revived as Corrupted Vor. Did he do a sneaky Janus revive after Mercury but only started spamming voice lines after the second death? 

[(PSN)teopropide]

"Continuity" in Warframe has always been confused, due to the very nature of the game. I mean, you have to write your lore in episodes, often disconnected between themselves because you must stick with gameplay reasons: can you blame them?

For example, during Operation: Eyes of Blight (from 2014, introduction of Fomorians) Vay Hek was heavily scolded by the Twin Queens, who said he was about to be replaced by Tyl Regor. For something similar, Vor was degraded to Captain (from Admiral). Now, year 2021, we have seen Hek multiple times (last one at Tennocon) after that and never seemed to be degraded, he's still Councilor and in fact in charge of Earth (or at least the Plains of Eidolon). In fact that was soft-retconned, due to the fact we don't have anything even about some Regor's promotion.

If we have similar problems about (supposedly lore-accurate) Operations, can we pretend normal missions to be lore-accurate?

As for now, I think we just canonically killed:

- Zanuka on Jupiter. After that Alad focused on Infestation, so we know lorewise Zanuka Project failed.

- Vor on Ceres. Dunno about Lech Kril, but of course Vor canonically died and was resurrected as Corrupted by Janus Key.

- Ropalolyst on Jupiter. We don't have a quest mention to it, but this particular Assassination mission is important lore-wise and Natah herself says Ropalolyst was expendable.

- The Sergeant on Phobos. Of course, he's a random nobody 😅. Hope poor guy gets reworked, or at least replaced by John Prodman to go full meme.

- Despite being a robot, technically we "killed" Ambulas for good after blowing up Bek's main ship, Ergo Glast strongly implies we stopped its production. 

To be honest we don't know anything about Kril's fate after Ceres, IIRC we never heard about him after that. But, you know, we already had  an Assassination against him on Mars and it went "LOL JK never happened", so we can't really know if he's dead or alive.

Others are alive:

- Vay Hek is of course alive, only one that clearly escaped us.

- Jackal, Raptors and Hyenas are robots, can be rebuilt.

- Sargas Ruk is well alive (featured in multiple operations such as Scarlet Spear or even Pyrus Project, which was long after Eyes of Blight).

- Tyl Regor is alive as well (featuring in Tubemen of Regor when Alad was messing with Infestation).

- Kela de Thaym is alive as of Dog Days.

Dunno about Infested bosses, other than of course Alad V. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The thing about Alad is, isn’t he Orokin? The recent trailer hinted at that when that corpus called him “gilded master” that and other innuendos that elude to it. And if he is one of the seven executivers he knows how to transfer  and he could use that to transfer himself into another clone of himself just like the Grineer Queens. 

The Sentients have NEVER called Alad a "gilded master." That title was exclusively from Natah to Ballas IIRC

Hunhow calls Alad an "Orokin," but this is pretty heavily hinted to be out of ignorance. Hunhow is ignorant, delusional, violent, sociopathic, and uncaring about all of the above. Hunhow sees organic life and thinks "target practice," the guy is an insane warmonger. He doesn't know that not all humans are Orokin, and doesn't care, he just kills them all the same

Natah also treats Alad completely different from Ballas. Natah rips the real Orokin's legs off and enslaves him. A criminal to be hated. Against Alad, she sees a resource to partner with, an asset to negotiate with. She puts him under house arrest with the Ropalolyst, but she also keeps up her end of the bargain (something she would never do to a real Orokin) and ends up putting her precious Amalgams directly under Alad's control.

As the final nail in the "Alad is from the old war" theory, Alad and Frohd Bek are old business partners, and Bek has some very nasty words for Salad in some of the older events. Something he wouldn't dare do to a real Orokin

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Alad V's arc goes like this AFAIK. (and spoilers, for any newer players)

Zanuka Alad: Alad V is initially introduced as a Corpus scientist and investor who enjoys creating Frankenstein's Monster-type projects out of fallen Warframe parts. he draws the ire of the Lotus and the Tenno with his Zanuka Project, the Tenno head to Jupiter and confront Alad and Zanuka. Zanuka is destroyed, and Alad is incapacitated but not killed. Alad later rebuilds a stronger Zanuka, the Zanuka Hunter (though it's actually easier to kill than the original lol), which he sends after players who support the Grineer in Invasions.

Mutalist Alad: Alad V heads to Eris where he begins trying to harness the power of the infestation to sell for profit, but the infestation - now capable of assimilating synthetic AND organic material -  escapes and decimates the Eris fleet. Alad becomes Infested and begins listening to the Hive Mind as the Technocyte takes over his body. Lotus orders us to kill Alad V to put him out of his misery, but along the way Alad also infests a Mesa Warframe which he keeps as a bodyguard. after defeating Mesa the Tenno confront Mutalist Alad and defeat him, but once again, he is not dead.

Tubemen of Regor Alad: seeking to be cured from his infestation, Alad learns that Grineer scientist Tyl Regor is working on a project that might help him. Alad implores the Tenno to retrieve a cure for him, offering rewards and a chance to strike at the heart of the Grineer's sealabs.  Tyl Regor finds out about this and insults Alad (in hilarious ways), and Nef Anyo also makes an appearance, making a counter-offer to the Tenno to let Alad suffer, regardless of what happens to the Sealabs. canonically, the Tenno decide to help Alad V and retrieve the cure from the sealabs. Alad acknowledges he is in debt to the Tenno.

Second Dream Alad: a recovering Alad V, facially scarred from his infested state, is called upon by Lotus to help out in the Second Dream, IIRC it was with the process of moving Lua out of the Void. Alad tries to pry Lotus for more info on how warframes work, confessing he was puzzled by what he found inside the frames when dissecting them for his Zanuka Project. Lotus obviously refuses to divulge information to Alad, and in the end, Alad claims we owe him back. 

Amalgam Alad: Alad V is approached by an old business associate, long thought dead, who offers a business contract to Alad that is too good to pass up. only after signing it does he realize the truth: the businessman was actually a Sentient Mimic, who has now tricked Alad into aiding the Sentient cause. the Sentients threaten Alad with the Ropalolyst, which will destroy him and all the Corpus on Jupiter unless he keeps fusing Corpus and Sentient tech together to create more powerful Amalgam units. Alad maintains a façade that suggest this is all his doing, and that he is in control, but the lore entries of "The Partnership" reveal the truth that Alad has been, and continues to be,  manipulated against his will. calling in his favour, Alad enlists the Tenno's help to confront and destroy the Ropalolyst so that he can be free of the Sentients. 

in short, it's Zanuka fight > Mutalist fight > Alad gets cured > Second Dream > Jovian Concord.

OP is right though, newer players end up fighting everything in the wrong order, but I doubt there's much DE are willing to do about it now.

 

 

[Deminisis]

I'm just convinced DE can't come up with cool corpus leaders and just necro Alad from death and even time and space just to put him in the next story.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 hours ago, Mints said:

1) Alad V is the only known person to deinfest themselves.

2) Hunhow went after him and so did the Acolytes. He escaped the former and we protected him from the latter.

3) There has never been any indication that completed Assassination missions against plot relevant characters are canon.

He deinfestes himself but he still had those glowing purple cracks on his face. Those were missing in the New War Demo.

[lowgrav]

On 2021-07-21 at 12:25 PM, Mints said:

There has never been any indication that completed Assassination missions against plot relevant characters are canon

plot twist the millions of enimy we have "killed" are all the exact same enimys from earth and venus as we changed planet and increased out power they presumed to be dead rallied together and followed us to the next planet also increasing their armor and training (hp pool) to get a higher lvl and fought us again and again each time we leave em for dead 

its why all the enimys look / sound the same as they are the same guy you "killed" before ..........but my kuva barma you say? look buddy that bow couldnt even kill a kuva thrall you required to stab it which still didnt work as it turned into a lich 3 more stabs later and the lich still isnt dead but you made it join you

face it we suck at killing anything as the enimys (apart from vor with his long monolog) dont even have the relivent injurys from previous encounters

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

On 2021-07-21 at 12:14 AM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The thing about Alad is, isn’t he Orokin? The recent trailer hinted at that when that corpus called him “gilded master” that and other innuendos that elude to it. And if he is one of the seven executivers he knows how to transfer  and he could use that to transfer himself into another clone of himself just like the Grineer Queens. 

No, Hunhow just assumed Alad was Orokin because he's Corpus, they were a faction that were around during the Orokin Era and they were essentially the "working class" for the Orokin at the time. To Hunhow, I'm sure he doesn't know the Corpus officially became their own faction later on and even started rebelling against the Orokin during the Old War due to Parvos, he just lumped them all together since they were technically one faction ages ago.

If Alad was actually an Orokin I doubt he'd be constantly trying to understand how Warframes work when he saw the Infested mass inside of them or constantly making shoddy replicas of Orokin tech to sell for profit.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-07-21 at 12:51 AM, TARINunit9 said:

Well it's never stated in the canon, but that would be a... ridiculously strict way of reading text. To say "if it wasn't explicitly stated to have happened, it is physically impossible to have happened." I find it far... FAR more likely that the Lotus just had Tenno start an evacuation of the Reservoir

Especially since Onkko has an entire Amp market set up for the Tenno, Even with the Unum's precognition, I find it rather absurd he would set that up for just one Tenno

So question. Screen shot from the last Tennocon play through. 

“The devil sends their relic” does this not confirm thier is only one Tenno awake? Or does it just confirm that the chosen devil? 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-07-21 at 3:57 AM, TARINunit9 said:

The Sentients have NEVER called Alad a "gilded master."

The corpus guy did though in the Tennocon reveal trailer… 

[TARINunit9]

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

The corpus guy did though in the Tennocon reveal trailer… 

His exact quote is "most gilded director." That's Corpus slang for other Corpus, not Orokin

36 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

“The devil sends their relic” does this not confirm thier is only one Tenno awake? Or does it just confirm that the chosen devil? 

No? Not even close to a confirmation. He's talking about the Tenno who stabbed him in the Sacrifice (i.e. you), not confirming there's only one Tenno.

[CaptainMinty]

On 2021-07-20 at 10:54 PM, -Moctezuma- said:

So in the new war trailer, we saw Alad V giving orders to the corpus, and that's all good but...

 

1 - didn't alad v get infested

2 - didn't he get murdered by hunhow in second dream quest

3 - didn't we killed alad in jupiter

1.  Yes he did. We cured him during an event called Tubemen of Regor. Alad V and Nef fought against each other and we decided to save Alad V. This makes Alad V the only known person to be saved from the Infestation.
    
2. Hunhow failed to kill Alad V, as Alad V is a slippery bugger who is absolutely good at evading death. Alad V is perhaps one of the most resourceful and intelligent people in the system. After all, he's had an absurd amount of interaction with the Tenno, and has even proven smart enough to capture and dismantle Warframes. He's one of the few to know the insides of a Warframe. He also was chased by Acolytes for a time, however that ended in failure for the Acolytes as Alad V called in a favor from the Tenno.
    
3. We failed to kill him there. He's a slippery bugger. However his defeat and the destruction of his most powerful Zanuka prototype led to his project failing and his expulsion from the Board. This led him directly to being Infested, as he began experiments on the Infestation shortly afterward.
    

As for him giving orders to Corpus units, Alad never will lose all of his followers. He is insanely intelligent, and his projects are incredibly likely to succeed. He'd make bank if it weren't for the constant Tenno interference. Alad is one of the most powerful people in the System and he commands a lot of respect from those around him. He absolutely would be a valuable asset in any situation. So long as the fight is in your favor. Alad V always sticks to the winning side of things. He knows when he's lost, and he knows how to escape certain death. I'd wager Alad V is going to be quite active in the New War.

[Mints]

On 2021-07-21 at 1:33 AM, TARINunit9 said:

There is more than it appears, but ironically it has nothing to do with Alad. It has everything to do with Hunhow

Basically Hunhow neither knows nor cares what "Orokin" means. He thinks it's a species, not a social caste. In truth he's completely wrong, but again he doesn't care.

This ties into Hunhow's further delusions, where he was supposedly a farmer, but was so good at torturing people and killing things he was appointed fleet admiral. He even envisions himself as the "Destroyer of Worlds" when he's just an ignorant warhawk

This in turn contrasts with his daughter Natah, who believes that the Sentients were good guys who were completely justified in a preemptive strike against the Orokin Empire for the greater good of life as a whole. In truth the Sentients are just evil genocidal killbots no better than the Orokin, and are lying to Natah to make her feel better.

Alad V is just a (un)lucky moron. But he makes a great catalyst to expose how insane the Sentients are

That was the assumption at the time, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. During the Sacrifice we see that Ballas, via a Vitruvian, made it very clear to Hunhow how Orokin culture operates. Note that the Vitruvian's contents are unlocked with specialized words and concepts relevant to that culture. In order to carry out her function as an infiltration specialist Natah would have needed extensive knowledge of the Orokin Empire such as caste systems, social structure, and so on. Assuming that Hunhow is ignorant of all that may be a mistake.

[Tesseract7777]

Meh, salad Ivs continuity as well as valkyrs has been a janky, consistently retconned mess for years and will continue to be. That ship has sailed and we gotta cope with it at this point and accept the ludo narrative dissonance. It is irreconcilable through conventional logic.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, Mints said:

That was the assumption at the time, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. During the Sacrifice we see that Ballas, via a Vitruvian, made it very clear to Hunhow how Orokin culture operates. Note that the Vitruvian's contents are unlocked with specialized words and concepts relevant to that culture. In order to carry out her function as an infiltration specialist Natah would have needed extensive knowledge of the Orokin Empire such as caste systems, social structure, and so on. Assuming that Hunhow is ignorant of all that may be a mistake.

At the same time, I am not convinced the Vitruvian actually made it to Hunhow. Being all locked up on Lua, in a dusty old lab instead of Hunhow's territory. It's left vague whether Hunhow knows what the Womb in the Sky actually is, and looking at his dialogue his statements can easily be interpreted both ways.