Can We Chill On The Instant Kill?

[DeltaPangaea]

I'm gonna be straight up here and say that yes, I know Steel Path is meant to be hard. I know I am currently awash with salt. I know I can't expect to be completely immune to death even with the chunkiest of frames on the Path. It's the big top end of difficulty right now. Even with the completely unnecessary armor buff on top of the HP buff though, I'm mostly doin' fine though.

When an Acolyte shows up, I'm usually fine. Usually. And then very occasionally I get actually max-to-dead annihilated instantly by something, through 9000ish HP and about 1000 armor, and they scamper off? That's kind of really annoying. Ran the numbers, that's about 39,000 effective HP. Hell, I've seen the same happen to my Moa sometimes when they're around, just insane chunks like 3/4 of his 15,000 strong health pool carved away in one hit.

And the worst part is, I can't even tell what it is. Maybe it was Malice magnetizing something into my head, who knows? One of the others has done it at least once. If it were any other frame, I wouldn't be quite as put out, but THAT MUCH damage dealt in a split second without warning or means to avoid it? That's when I sit up and go 'Wait hold on a moment...'

It's times like this I sorely wish that Warframe had a death recap of some kind so you could see what actually just happened, since death can come within a span of frames sometimes.

This ain't even mentioning Mania Lifting people with zero regard for even hard Status Immunity. Thankfully I've avoided such an ignominious end so far, but my friends have lamented it many a time and the fact it's there really makes me rub my chin at the whole thing.

 

Anyone else run into any particularly egregious oneshots from Stalker's merry band of edgelords, or is it just me?

 

_{I mean seriously DE, death recap? Please? It would go a long way to easing my frustration if it turned out I was shooting into some counter move or something, even if such a thing would aggravate me by merely existing given the damage/hp disparities. Same reason Radiation is a terrible status to put on players.}

[Drachnyn]

Death recap would be nice. If it was malice your EHP numbers might aswell be 10 because our weapon damage is meant for enemy EHP numbers, not for our own. If malice is up, do not shoot your gun.

[deucich]

Malice uses magnetize (mag's 2nd skikll). So, you probably shot yourself there

[(PSN)max141064]

Yup, Malice's magnetize will dismantle you, rebuild you and smash you in 1 second. 

Plus the toxin and the puke stains from the infested moas will destroy you too. 

Both are pretty annoying but both pretty easy to avoid. 

if you roll when Malice effects you with magnetize it will go away and you just have to focus on those infested pricks first.

[Infirito]

20 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

It's times like this I sorely wish that Warframe had a death recap of some kind so you could see what actually just happened, since death can come within a span of frames sometimes.

https://semlar.com/deathlog

[DeltaPangaea]

Alright literally just happened again. It was indeed Malice.

I was even watching out for him this time, he was like 70m away on the other side of a wall, I saw no effect on myself, fired once, dead.

 

DE, please learn the difference between player and enemy damage. Please? This is the same reason that Unairu's damage reflection isn't worth a snowball in hell, the numbers just aren't anywhere CLOSE to equivalent. If you make enemies deal damage to enemies without some massive multiplier, it's worthless. If you make players deal damage to players without some massive penalty, it's flat out instant death.

4 minutes ago, Infirito said:

https://semlar.com/deathlog

>Death by Kuva Ogris

>Death by Kuva Ogris

>Death by Kuva Ogris

Yeah that sounds about right.

[(PSN)max141064]

From the wiki: 

 

- If you roll, magnetize will disappear.

- you can tank through it with Wukong's Defy.

-Nyx's Absorb paired with the augment Assimilate will keep you safe from magnetize.

[DeltaPangaea]

1 minute ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

oh, so it's your...quirk to be a pain and extremely rude to people. 

good to know. 

Not even going to comment further, again....have a great day. bu-bye. 

... Alright so I'm fully aware I've been a pissy *@##$ in this situation and I regret none of it, but how in the everliving hells below is me feeling bad for people with more particle effects going because it'd be even harder for them to see the only sign that they've been cursed with 'instantly kill yourself' being a pain and rude?

You've actually got me confused now.

[Deminisis]

Guess I know why I got deleted with 90% damage reduction nova yesterday. I didn't even see the magnetize effect.

[DeltaPangaea]

3 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

Guess I know why I got deleted with 90% damage reduction nova yesterday. I didn't even see the magnetize effect.

It's not helped by the fact that the visual is, on top of being subtle (especially with Steel Path spawns), different to other magnetize effects. It's just a few small swirls around you, not the big obvious bubble like Mag's actual skill or Void procs cause.

So even if you did see it, you'd be buggered in recognizing it for what it is.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This can be solved by learning the enemy and its mechanics, which is on the player.

An acolyte hit you with a scythe and it lifted you up, just like our scythes because the combo lifts up the enemy. So maybe don't get close to that acolyte or try some status immunity. 

Yes, mania or manic....puts a magnetize bubble on you....it can be be removed by rolling, and that acolyte has an opticor whose projectile goes inside the magnetized bubble on you, just like how you do it to enemies with Mag.

Some acolytes disable abilities and even transference if you're too close.....the solution is to once again create some distance or kill the acolyte with some status immunity or invulnerability on.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

22 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

It's not helped by the fact that the visual is, on top of being subtle (especially with Steel Path spawns), different to other magnetize effects. It's just a few small swirls around you, not the big obvious bubble like Mag's actual skill or Void procs cause.

So even if you did see it, you'd be buggered in recognizing it for what it is.

Maybe your effects are turned down....it's a super obvious bubble swirling around you.

[DeltaPangaea]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

This can be solved by learning the enemy and its mechanics, which is on the player.

An acolyte hit you with a scythe and it lifted you up, just like our scythes because the combo lifts up the enemy. So maybe don't get close to that acolyte or try some status immunity. 

Yes, mania or manic....puts a magnetize bubble on you....it can be be removed by rolling, and that acolyte has an opticor whose projectile goes inside the magnetized bubble on you, just like how you do it to enemies with Mag.

Some acolytes disable abilities and even transference if you're too close.....the solution is to once again create some distance or kill the acolyte with some status immunity or invulnerability on.

As stated, Status Immunity does nothing to the Lifted status that I've seen.

And I dunno what settings I don't have turned on, but it's a relatively subtle effect and I'm on at least midrange graphics. If 'knowing you're about to kill yourself' requires having higher graphics on, then that's a big friggin' problem. It doesn't even give you a debuff icon unless I'm mistaken.

And the point still remains it's entirely different to what the other magnetize effects look like. How are you meant to recognize it as Magnetize even if you see it? How would you know to remove it by rolling? How are you meant to know THAT's what killed you in the mess of people and effects that Steel Path can easily be?

And the point still remains that turning player damage against players unmodified is a terrible idea. Rad procs fall into the same issue. By the time you notice it, the team's exploded because damage scale is just so out of control.

And 'just learn the enemy' is poor design when it gives you zero information like it does. And then it's a nonissue. I'm never going to have a problem with him now I know that I'm just now allowed to shoot while he exists ever.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

As stated, Status Immunity does nothing to the Lifted status that I've seen.

And I dunno what settings I don't have turned on, but it's a relatively subtle effect and I'm on at least midrange graphics. If 'knowing you're about to kill yourself' requires having higher graphics on, then that's a big friggin' problem. It doesn't even give you a debuff icon unless I'm mistaken.

And the point still remains it's entirely different to what the other magnetize effects look like. How are you meant to recognize it as Magnetize even if you see it? How would you know to remove it by rolling? How are you meant to know THAT's what killed you in the mess of people and effects that Steel Path can easily be?

And the point still remains that turning player damage against players unmodified is a terrible idea. Rad procs fall into the same issue. By the time you notice it, the team's exploded because damage scale is just so out of control.

And 'just learn the enemy' is poor design when it gives you zero information like it does. And then it's a nonissue. I'm never going to have a problem with him now I know that I'm just now allowed to shoot while he exists ever.

Not learning the enemy is poor player design. Just like not being able to handle surrounding enemies while fighting an acolyte is a player issue. Try some CC and arcane healing.

[DeltaPangaea]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Not learning the enemy is poor player design. Just like not being able to handle surrounding enemies while fighting an acolyte is a player issue. Try some CC and arcane healing.

It's not a player's fault for not learning when the game provides no information or opportunity to learn.

That's what we call poor game design.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

It's not a player's fault for not learning when the game provides no information or opportunity to learn.

That's what we call poor game design.

This isn't a single player game from 2002 that needs 18 prompts and pop ups on the screen. You have an entire community that already knows everything, the internet, in game chats etc.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

use rolling guard

[dwqrf]

Hey guys, there is some new railjack enemies that also sometimes, somewhat, reflect damage. Always fun to one shot one-self with a envoy rocket.

[taiiat]

if you'll really insist on using Inaros for some reason, i'd strongly recommend subsuming like, Null Star onto him or something.
something to make up for exposed you're leaving yourself by not having Shields.

comparatively to other Warframes, Inaros is pretty weak thesedays. between not having Shields in a world where Shield Gating exists, and DR having just recently been nerfed.
so you'll need to stack DR as hard as you can to compensate for the weaknesses you've decided to play with.

 

additionally a pretty safe way to encounter Acolytes is to wait in spacekid from when they announce themselves until they Spawn. it helps against them immediately attacking after Spawning.

if Malice is the Acolyte you were fighting in this scenario, Magnetize is clearly visible, it's just not screaming it in your face. you'll see a similar Effect around your Character as you would see if you Casted Magnetize onto an Enemy yourself. it's covering the majority of your screen space really. it just isn't covering the center of your screen.
a welcome surprise, i think. the information is there if i'm paying attention but if i'm not i can miss it. and most importantly i can still see the game, which isn't always the case in Warframe or other games.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Yeah, Malice has some high damage move. I recommend keeping your distance when fighting him.

[iLikeCookiesQ]

Yeah, thanks for making a post. Acolyte fights are not well designed. The game has so much clutter on the screen, even if there was some projectile that you *could* see coming, you probably wouldn't see it because there are 20 other enemies and other visual effects going on.

When an acolyte spawns, you either cheese with zenurik slow, cheese with rolling guard, cheese with something else, but never actually fight it like a boss fight is supposed to be. (whatever that might be)

Good boss design is about (subtly or less sublty) telegraphed attacks that a knowledgable player can evade, and windows of vulnerability.

The partial status resistance on acolytes is also heavily favoring slow weapons, since you can stack at most 4 slash procs, and 4 small slash procs is not much but 4 big procs is.
If they wanted to cap stacking procs, then they should have done it by capping the maximum combined damage per tick, not the number of procs that cause the ticks.

And then the following (I am not 100% certain about what I'm about to say but I have a strong suspicion it is true)

Weapons with a status rate of over 4 per second do 0 damage with slash procs (and perhaps some other statuses too) because new procs replace the old ones before they dealt any damage, and then the timers are reset... like... this is actually terribly punishing for fast weapons.

It makes no sense that you do more damage by stopping your attacks. (Since that leaves your procs with time to do damage before they get replaced)

[Joezone619]

i think maybe only the acolytes need their damage tuned down a bit, the other enemies are fine. Especially mania, he can lift you if you get in melee range, and he can use turbulence, making all projectiles ineffective, forcing you to get in melee range, where he'll lift you, and kill you when you can't do anything to stop it.

[LuckyCharm]

Torment just ruined me instantly while i was invisible too, one shotting me out of nowhere after completely ignoring my octavia mallet that I was standing clear of. A thing telling me what exactly killed me would be nice if it popped up. Probably even more helpful than the popup telling me that i found yet more nano spores

[OwlOfJune]

On 2021-07-21 at 8:10 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

This isn't a single player game from 2002 that needs 18 prompts and pop ups on the screen. You have an entire community that already knows everything, the internet, in game chats etc.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

This is a game that COULD use couple prompts and pop ups in situations like this with everything being so confusingly colorful.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

This is a game that COULD use couple prompts and pop ups in situations like this with everything being so confusingly colorful.

Check out your settings and options.