Can We Chill On The Instant Kill?

[OP-R8R]

He is right, the instant kill crap lately is getting out of hands. Sisters keep insta killing players non-stop and most of them don't even know how they were killed or by what.

The game just does not tell anyone what just happened. Ppl dont have their eyes nonstop on the icons nor are they able to tell the difference between all the thousand visual effects that happen on their screens. Sometimes I have the entire screen full of particle crap from weapons that I barely can see what happens there.

And without any indication players for sure can't tell which of the 20 enemies in the room is responsible for the kill/debuff... etc.

That makes it hard to learn how to counter these kinds of issues.

[ENIAK_Prime]

I actually have no idea how to even proceed through Steel Path. I get squashed easily on the very first node so I feel like I'm missing something important.

Even a plain old Grineer Lancer is like an insanely tough boss that can wipe me out in a few seconds if I let him so much as look at me...

[TeaHands]

This post was very helpful, I had zero idea that malice used magnetize. So many of my deaths make a lot of sense now. I just assumed I let certain buffs expire and didn't notice.

Thank you OP.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, ENIAK_Prime said:

I actually have no idea how to even proceed through Steel Path. I get squashed easily on the very first node so I feel like I'm missing something important.

Even a plain old Grineer Lancer is like an insanely tough boss that can wipe me out in a few seconds if I let him so much as look at me...

Against Grineer stack viral+slash. 

Corpus Magnetize+toxin if you can manage it

Infested just kill like normal

 

Make sure you've got decent survivability. Steel Path pushes build optimization harder than regular mode. Having a balance between offense and defense will carry you far. CC is also very useful in Steel Path, as is some way of removing shields/armor (ember melts grineer hint hint).

[ENIAK_Prime]

7 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Against Grineer stack viral+slash. 

Corpus Magnetize+toxin if you can manage it

Infested just kill like normal

 

Make sure you've got decent survivability. Steel Path pushes build optimization harder than regular mode. Having a balance between offense and defense will carry you far. CC is also very useful in Steel Path, as is some way of removing shields/armor (ember melts grineer hint hint).

What are good mods I want for survivability besides the obvious Vitality and Steel Fiber? I also have Adaptation so there's that...

[Klokwerkaos]

So there's a few things to unpack here.

1) steel path is intended to push players even with the best gear.  If you can't handle it you need to up your gear.  If you can't accept that you can die once in a while, then maybe rethink what the word "challenge" means to you.

2) Death recap always has problems.  It goes like this:  you have 1000 health.  Thing strikes you for 999 health.  You get hit for 1HP  by some random thing almost immediately after.  Death recap tells you that you were killed by 1 damage from grineer grenade.  Completely useless.

Now lets say we instead track the last 5 or 10 things that hit you in the last 10 seconds to give you a comprehensive readout... that's significant strain on the game as it needs to be constantly recording all computations.  Now try and port that to railjack on a mobile phone and ask yourself if you're not running 1FPS.

The thing is, there are absolutely several ways to completely make acolytes completely not a threat; you can completely trivialize them entirely. I'm assuming several people have already listed these.  You can do this with both certain weapons and certain frames, meaning you aren't restricted to just one meta, you have a few options available if you can't manage to not die to stalker on skill alone.  I will grant that even with decent skill you may just get unlucky once in a while and miss your 2 (maybe more with loot buffs) whole steel essence, which is like... cry about it, it's not a big deal.    There isn't really anything you desperately need in the reward pool for steel essence that is so dire that you can't miss 2 steel essence once in a while.

And that's only if you want to solo. 

If you don't feel like soloing, bring a group, if you go down it's no big deal.

Plus, if you're really all about that steel farm, you're gonna bring a full meta squad anyway.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, ENIAK_Prime said:

What are good mods I want for survivability besides the obvious Vitality and Steel Fiber? I also have Adaptation so there's that...

Vitality + Adaptation is a pretty solid combo for health-heavy frames. I'd go with a subsume ability that adds strong CC if your frame doesn't have much, or if subsume isn't available try and fill some CC with arcanes/companions.

[OP-R8R]

Am 27.7.2021 um 08:25 schrieb Leqesai:

Vitality + Adaptation is a pretty solid combo for health-heavy frames. I'd go with a subsume ability that adds strong CC if your frame doesn't have much, or if subsume isn't available try and fill some CC with arcanes/companions.

My logs show regular instances of +20000 damage done to me prior being insta killed. Impossible to improve health to such a level and Adaption  due to its scaling nature has little to no effect on single instance damage sources with such high values.

This does not have anything to do with skill when you are instantly being killed within a fraction of a second. There is not even time to react between the moment the damage icon shows up and being killed.

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

My logs show regular instances of +20000 damage done to me prior being insta killed. Impossible to improve health to such a level and Adaption  due to its scaling nature has little to no effect on single instance damage sources with such high values.

My advice was not in response to your question. But I'll try helping you here: The giant spike damage you're seeing with sisters is most likely related to Radiation procs. You can avoid radiation procs with the associated arcane but you can still get OHKO if you have a team member with radiation procs hitting you with something like bramma. 

This has nothing to do with general survivability, which is what I was originally responding to. This has to do with a specific way of receiving damage that is mostly unique to liches/sisters/acolytes. Radiation procs are very rare outside of these three enemy types.

[OP-R8R]

Sure using an Arcane would work.... but only helps players which actually have the Arcane and have it in a tier that has enough resistance. And even then it is no full protection.

Such a messed up game mechanic should not exist in first place. Ive seen entire teams getting whiped over and over again due to this crap.

[Leqesai]

22 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

Sure using an Arcane would work.... but only helps players which actually have the Arcane and have it in a tier that has enough resistance. And even then it is no full protection.

Such a messed up game mechanic should not exist in first place. Ive seen entire teams getting whiped over and over again due to this crap.

Correct. You can also give your teammates status immunity to avoid the issue altogether. Oberon's Hallowed Ground works for this. Pillage can also be used to wipe status effects so spamming this ability while fighting sisters makes it harder for Rad procs to do the dirty. Titania's spellbind can be used to easily give a full team status immunity during sister fights.

Point is, there are ways to combat this mechanic and they're not terribly difficult to use. Spellbind and Pillage can be subsumed onto any warframe so all frames at least have access to status mitigation. My personal choice is to just run with the arcane equipped then stay away from the sister to avoid AOE death from team members. 

It is pretty common to see teams get wiped by game mechanics they don't fully understand. This is most common when content is new but there are a surprising number of players who never figured this out with the old lich system... 

[OP-R8R]

sure there are ways.... if you have access to these mechanics

I just doubt that everyone has access to these.

[(NSW)Emperor_Prime]

I can confirm that rolling helps against Malice's Magentize (Rolling Guard is not needed), but this still leaves the question why it can one-shot you. I usually play SP with Baruuk having Desolate Hands, Adaptation and shield gating. And still Malice kills me, even when I don't shoot and only use melee. This definitely needs some attention from DE.

[ShogunGunshow]

I've always wondered, can allies hit you with something like Mind Control while Radiation procced? 

[Hyohakusha]

On 2021-07-21 at 4:18 AM, DeltaPangaea said:

I get actually max-to-dead annihilated instantly by something, through 9000ish HP and about 1000 armor

I hate to break it to you, the problem is you're using Inaros. He's the only frame in the game that even can be killed in a single instance of damage, because he has no shields and therefor no shield-gate. In SP he's just a walking sack of health with a kill me sign on him. Any other frame in the game can eat a million damage off a single instance and live (unless it's toxin damage) whereas Inaros is just going to evaporate. It sucks cause he's a cool frame, but the poor guy needs a rework badly. Only advice I can give is to pick up Rolling Guard, use a different frame for farming Acolytes, or both. Revenant's a good pick if you just want to go about it casually.

[Andele3025]

On 2021-07-21 at 10:30 AM, (PSN)max141064 said:

Plus the toxin and the puke stains from the infested moas will destroy you too.

Infested moa carpet and toxic ancient roars are actually bugged.
Capet is a object (with object hp thus sufficient aoe cleans them up) thus sometimes the game bugs out and gives them double dipping scaling when objects shouldnt scale in level at all (same why sometimes cameras pop up that are more of a boss encounter than the sergeant), toxic roar meanwhile is a disjointed multi-tick hitbox (likely with a missing decimal), much like what Jugulus neck disc attacks were doing being able to quad proc and dealing a entire instance of extra old gas damage.

 

[Mer03]

Yes players should watch carefully if malice's finger on the opticor is moving. If you can't see it then you don't roll dodge which means you get one shotted. It's your fault. 

[(XBOX)SwiftBMF]

On 2021-07-21 at 11:03 AM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

This can be solved by learning the enemy and its mechanics, which is on the player.

An acolyte hit you with a scythe and it lifted you up, just like our scythes because the combo lifts up the enemy. So maybe don't get close to that acolyte or try some status immunity. 

Yes, mania or manic....puts a magnetize bubble on you....it can be be removed by rolling, and that acolyte has an opticor whose projectile goes inside the magnetized bubble on you, just like how you do it to enemies with Mag.

Some acolytes disable abilities and even transference if you're too close.....the solution is to once again create some distance or kill the acolyte with some status immunity or invulnerability on.

You must get punched..like alot in real life.

The way you talk to practically everyone is so obnoxious..Are you friends with a guy called Saint by any chance,you two would get along great.

[Lutesque]

On 2021-07-21 at 10:18 AM, DeltaPangaea said:

 

It's times like this I sorely wish that Warframe had a death recap of some kind so you could see what actually just happened, since death can come within a span of frames sometimes.

I mean... Would knowing how you are being cheated make you feel better ?

Not me.... I'd rather it never screws me over in the first place.

On 2021-07-21 at 1:42 PM, taiiat said:

and DR having just recently been nerfed.

Say what ? 😱

When did this Happen ? And why ?

On 2021-07-22 at 5:01 PM, iLikeCookiesQ said:

 

Good boss design is about (subtly or less sublty) telegraphed attacks that a knowledgable player can evade, and windows of vulnerability.

I would say that's Merely passable Boss Design.... For something to actually qualify for the Title of Good it would need to be Interactive and for it to be great... You would have to be able to turn the bosses own moves against itself.

For example... The Mikiri Counter in Sekiro....or Bash and Deflection in The Ori Games (Blind Forest and Wispy Willows)...

Basically bosses should be more than what they are in Dark Souls and Hollow Knight... My gripe with those Boss Designs is they have moves that you just have to deal with and no option to interact or flip the tables, it's just them doing stuff and you avoiding it if you can.... Warframe is worse sometimes because Bosses will Force Afflictions on you with no way to avoid them.... A perfect example is Salad V just turning off your Abilities whenever he feels like it... No chance to protest... He just does it and you have to deal with it...

 

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Say what ? 😱

When did this Happen ? And why ?

a knee jerk to people being able to be 100% immune to like, one Damage Type at a time by stacking enough types of DR.
so now DR has severe diminishing returns so more than say, two types of DR has far less of an effect than you'd expect.

as for when, the past Month or something like that.

[Lutesque]

7 minutes ago, taiiat said:

a knee jerk to people being able to be 100% immune to like, one Damage Type at a time by stacking enough types of DR.
so now DR has severe diminishing returns so more than say, two types of DR has far less of an effect than you'd expect.

as for when, the past Month or something like that.

Breaks My Heart 💔

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2021-07-21 at 11:03 PM, DeltaPangaea said:

It's not a player's fault for not learning when the game provides no information or opportunity to learn.

That's what we call poor game design.

Ahh in the post you are talking about Sp Acolyte right .. and yet you are now saying you havent learnt and blame the game design.. really.. how in the hell did you get to SP in the first place, taxi much .. did you learn anything on the path through the game.. no? I just see a player who doesnt put effort into understanding the nme and then blames the game design.. I have no problems running endurance mission when farming SE in SP and do it solo without dieing .. how do you ask - by knowing what my nmes are, how to deal with them, what nmes can kill with 1 shot, how to stop the Acolytes dead in their tracks and to keep moving all the time.. Its a really simple method of game experience..

[ArmsForPeace84]

The instant gib attacks are annoying when they happen. But at the same time, it's the only way my builds get downed in Steel Path. I'm not even running Arcane Grace, and yet the gradual damage from attacks is easy to deal with if I'm paying attention. So without them, it might get boring a lot faster.

[Lutesque]

32 minutes ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

how do you ask - by knowing what my nmes are, how to deal with them, what nmes can kill with 1 shot, how to stop the Acolytes dead in their tracks and to keep moving all the time..

What are "nmes" 🤔 ?

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

Ahh in the post you are talking about Sp Acolyte right .. and yet you are now saying you havent learnt and blame the game design.. really.. how in the hell did you get to SP in the first place, taxi much .. did you learn anything on the path through the game.. no? I just see a player who doesnt put effort into understanding the nme and then blames the game design.. I have no problems running endurance mission when farming SE in SP and do it solo without dieing .. how do you ask - by knowing what my nmes are, how to deal with them, what nmes can kill with 1 shot, how to stop the Acolytes dead in their tracks and to keep moving all the time.. Its a really simple method of game experience..

Assuming I'm translating right:

You're saying the OP taxied to Steel Path because they have difficulty learning an entirely new caliber of enemy encountered only in Steel Path due to a lack of information provided in-game surrounding a few specific Acolyte abilities.

I don't think that follows the way you think it does.

38 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

What are "nmes" 🤔 ?

"Enemies", I presume. "n = en", "m = em". (Like initials: N. M. es)