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Warframe on mobile will kill any evolution of this game?


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Opinion: 
Cross save and play between consoles and PC is great can finally play with buddies from the forums and r/Warframe! But from graphics, animations to engine limitations to P2P connection to gameplay evolution and ideas, implementation, mechanics;  I feel like DE is really overreaching  and scraping  the bottom of the barrel with this one and DE is really backing themselves into a corner even more so. Are we really hurting for (new)players that much we have to make Warframe playable on mobile device too? 
 

Why is putting Warframe on mobile phones a good idea? 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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  • (XBOX)YoungGunn82 changed the title to Warframe on mobile will kill any evolution of this game.

Considering that DE is actually making a large financial risk with this move, I feel like it's quite safe to assume they've done their research and know what they're doing.  This isn't something they've done on a whim.

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If it can run on the Switch and still have room for things like open worlds and Railjack I don't see why it running on sufficiently powerful phone hardware would be an evolutive roadblock.

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Isn't a little early for this?  We don't know what the minimum allowed spec is for what phones can even play the mobile version.  And I'm pretty sure the newest gen phones are actually at least as powerful (if not actually more powerful) computers than a Switch.  Especially since a pretty common thing on Nintendo fansites is apparently "Switch Pro when?!?"

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My phone is about as powerful as a Switch, so idk if this is really going to be a problem. If anything, leveraging PCs/consoles as hosts for mobile devices could be a good way to avoid the issues mobile devices have when hosting, like spawn caps.

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Posted (edited)

Aren’t they gonna have to maintain a certain graphical expectations across all devices? Doesn’t that mean anymore advance in graphics or animations it won’t run on switch? So therefore we are locked in to what we have now forever? If not how will that work exactly? 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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4 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Aren’t they gonna have to maintain a certain graphical expectations across all devices? Doesn’t that mean anymore advance in graphics or animations it won’t run on switch? How will it work exactly? 

I mean, yeah. They'll strive for the best fidelity they can get given the hardware, but if they need to cut rendering features, lower quality, or use different compression then they will. (Edit: Just on a given platform, mind you. Concessions made for Switch don't need to affect PC.) This is a standard part of game development and it's the same for DE as it is for anyone.

Edited by PublikDomain
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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Considering that DE is actually making a large financial risk with this move, I feel like it's quite safe to assume they've done their research and know what they're doing.  This isn't something they've done on a whim.

*Vietnam flashbacks to lunaro, archwing, railjack launch*

 

 

Let's not forget tencent owns them now, im not a doomer or anything, but I'd just like to pion out the convenience of these two events (acquisition and mobile version) happening not too far apart.

In all fairness yes they wouldn't be pouring all that wf money into mobile if they didn't have confidence in it, but let's not forget we don't live in a perfect world and not every financial decision de made was exactly.. perfect.

Idk

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3 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

That raises another question. Enemy spawns, how well will the game run if not connected to WiFi? Just sounds like a nightmare to me. 

Probably about as good or bad as your data plan is. Though I think it's likely that DE just doesn't allow Switch/mobile players to host for non-Switch/mobile players. They could also prevent online play for mobile players when not on wifi. That'd prevent PC/Console players from experiencing any hosting problems, and allow weaker devices to handle more spawns.

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3 years ago I would have agreed with OP,

mobile gaming on a detailed and resource consuming game like warframe would be rather challenging , just from a technology perspective , not to mention the limited UI and user access possibility.

The playerbase itself is a different point (yeah call me elitist , I feel if you are not investing in the core platform for the purpose of gaming in some way then you aren't quite a "gamer")

But today , holding my latest ROG phone and ocassionally playing genshin impact ? I feel like we are looking at a new platform that is going to be rather common. 

Some of the specs on these would put my old setups to shame.

WiFi setups have been improving , hell I have run the game on 3G hotspots with barely noticeable lag. But thats more on the ISP and not the platform.

With better tech , things will change. I expect there to be minimum specs for phones the same way they are for PC , and Devs don't let old PC tech stop them from developing the game , mobile will probably follow suite.

Am I happy about it ? It's a mixed bag , I am happy I can still play when I am away on trips , I am not so enthused to think about how monetization of the game will be affected once it goes to such a platform.

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wait, I thought that was cloud gaming on phones all the time! 

Are they really going to let warframe run ON PHONES?

I can imagine the recruit chat be like 

Quote

tridolon x 3 need volt harrow trin NO PHONES ALLOWED 

 

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If Switch didnt halt the evolution of WF, then phones wont do it either. Cross-play will however be a pita for us PC players since we now need to wait for the cert processes aswell because we all need to be on the same version for cross-play to work. Unless DE comes up with a good idea where cross-play can be gradual, so if content X isnt available on console, the console players simply arent part of the MM for that piece of content. But that will be very wonky given that several things arent just isolated to the mission, since we have weapons and so on too that can be used everywhere.

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Pretty sure we'll soon enough be at the point where you're average "gaming" phone is more powerful than the Switch. I say the real question is how far Nintendo will take later Switch models and if they'll be a limiting factor.

Though I do wonder how it'll handle ai counts through crossplay. IIRC during Orphix Venom console players were complaining about getting lower scores than PC players due to differences in how the platforms handle spawning/enemy limits. If that is, and will remain, the case then I wonder if crossplay will cause the entire session to be limited by the weakest system connected or it'll hurt the performance on said system.

Ultimately we'll need to wait until DE delivers some solid information on how the system will work.

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  • (XBOX)YoungGunn82 changed the title to Warframe on mobile will kill any evolution of this game?
1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Why is putting Warframe on mobile phones a good idea?

... Technically, mobile phones have better hardware capabilities than the Switch has... And unlike Switch, mobile phones are always evolving like the PC and the other platforms...

 

... Now, you can argue how red people's hands are going to actually be when holding those phones while playing Warframe, to which I blatantly am going to say "Tomatoes are going to be less colorful than their hands"...

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Opinion: 
Cross save and play between consoles and PC is great can finally play with buddies from the forums and r/Warframe! But from graphics, animations to engine limitations to P2P connection to gameplay evolution and ideas/implementation, I feel like DE is really overreaching  and scraping  the bottom of the barrel with this one and DE is really backing themselves into a corner even more so. Are we really hurting for (new)players that much we have to make Warframe playable on mobile device too? 
 

Why is putting Warframe on mobile phones a good idea? 

I understand your concern, but here is what I think you are missing. 

If the Switch can manage it, a phone can too.

You realize a lot of higher end smartphones literally have better specs than the Switch right?

The switch is a glorified toaster that plays kiddie games. I wouldn't stress too much about it. 

Phones are incredibly strong these days, and they are planning stronger versions of the Switch (HD something? idk...) too, so we don't have to worry about that (the Switch) holding back development either.

It's all going to be OK. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I understand your concern, but here is what I think you are missing. 

If the Switch can manage it, a phone can too.

You realize a lot of higher end smartphones literally have better specs than the Switch right?

The switch is a glorified toaster that plays kiddie games. I wouldn't stress too much about it. 

Phones are incredibly strong these days, and they are planning stronger versions of the Switch (HD something? idk...) too, so we don't have to worry about that (the Switch) holding back development either.

It's all going to be OK. 

Quick correction, they are making a new switch, but its literally the same system besides a better screen on the console and sound system. So more than anything, it's most likely Nintendo will hold WF back more than any other platform. in my opinion at least lol.

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Just now, TomCruisesSon said:

Quick correction, they are making a new switch, but its literally the same system besides a better screen on the console and sound system. So more than anything, it's most likely Nintendo will hold WF back more than any other platform. in my opinion at least lol.

True enough then lol. 

I thought the HD was going to have improved hardware, but I guess by HD they really just mean better sound and screen lol... oh Nintendo, they love their gimmicks, but good specs? Nah... 

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I'm a little worried too, but as long as the switch is still supported (and the outdated consoles), it all depends on the min specs you need on your phone, it might be above the current specs of the switch.

 

Crossplay is more of a problem, pub exterminate fissures just aren't going to be fun for phone users if the rest of the team has already cleared everything out, I hope they make crossplay invite exclusive like they do on Fortnite, or at least have you wait a bit before it matches you to other platforms.

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Quote

The total number of video game players in China has exceeded 640 million, which is three times the total population of the United States. As a result, China has become essentially the largest video game market.[1]

And in this market, most people only play mobile games.
The market size of mobile games in China is 158.1 billion yuan.[2] In other words, mobile games contribute 68% of the revenue of the entire Chinese video game market.

 

Quote

China’s largest company, the social media, games and entertainment giant Tencent achieved net profits of RMB47.7 billion ($7.39 billion) in the first three months of the year. That was an increase of 65% on the comparable period last year when coronavirus was at its peak in China. It was a 19% decrease from the fourth quarter of 2020.

Revenues in the January to March period were up by 25% to RMB135 billion ($20.9 billion) year-on-year, but only 1% higher than the final quarter of last year.

 

https://pandayoo.com/2020/11/29/how-does-mobile-game-become-the-most-popular-form-of-game-in-china-not-pc-games-or-console-games/

https://variety.com/2021/global/news/china-mobile-gaming-annual-revenue-1234983098/

https://marketingtochina.com/the-video-gaming-industry-in-china-is-booming/

https://variety.com/2021/biz/asia/tencent-first-quarter-profits-1234977484/

 

Insert obligatory speech "we did it for the players!!!!1". Ironically, the by far worst gaming platform is no. 1 in the world, which was my point about corporatism in video gaming from day one.

More money, less quality, ironically.

"The stagnation of video gaming" starting around 2000 happened exactly because the corporatism turned to the larger console profits, but worse games. With no offense to console users, I know they are ignorant of the facts.

Now 'it is happening again' (twin peaks), where console gets to be held back by mobile devices for the next 20 years. The second stagnation of video gaming.

 

How can the weaker platform be making the most money, especially when video games rely so heavily on performance.

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After Digital Extremes acquisition by Tencent, it was only a matter of time before a mobile version of Warframe was released.

Quite a few of us have been speculating that it was going be previewed during Tennocon.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

If it can run on the Switch and still have room for things like open worlds and Railjack I don't see why it running on sufficiently powerful phone hardware would be an evolutive roadblock.

Thing is, even the most powerful phones today are barely catching up to the Switch, which is a 2017 device using 2014 components. Phone manufacturers advertise peak theoretical performance using FP16 while PC and consoles not only measure performance in FP32, but the same hardware yields better performance in consoles than on PC because consoles allow you to "code to the metal" so to speak.

For example, this makes the iPhone XS's advertised 5TFLOPS of performance (Higher than the PS4 Pro) closer to 1.25TFLOPS peak performance, or roughly 70% the performance of the base PS4 (Not even the Pro). Not to mention that heat and power consumption means that peak mobile performance tends to be a burst of 10 seconds or so, which is not sustainable and makes sustained performance roughly 820GLOPS (If not lower), or half the performance of the base PS4 (Which is a 2013 device using 2011 components). Phone FLOPS are extremely misleading.

This came straight from the legendary John Carmack himself:

So unless sustained mobile performance has made a dramatic shift (If Carmack's statement is no longer true) then I do share OP's concern; the weakest platform controls and governs mechanics and gameplay systems for all other platforms. One key example of this was the Ice Climbers missing from Super Smash Bros Wii U because Nintendo wanted character parity with the 3DS version but the 3DS could not handle too many Ice Climber players at once so the characters were cut for both versions.

You can scale down textures, geometry, lighting, objects, shadows and resolution, but not mechanics. File size will go down as textures and geometry are scaled down, but anything that is proving difficult to do on mobile mechanics-wise and content-wise will affect all other versions unless the mobile version is a "client" with everything else being handled remotely as if it was a cloud game being streamed into your phone rather than a game running from your phone.

Edited by Jarriaga
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