Is new war going to be warframe's equivalent to wow's cataclysm?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Happy you enjoyed it. Im hoping the new war and duviri will be really cool.  The demo definently impressed me.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Maybe my perspective is skewed, but people still complain about them around here. I never played either of those things myself, but people still vehemently hold removing it against them. I'm just reporting what I've seen.

conclave had less players than trials that were actively playing. But instead of fix or rework trials they outright removed because “nobody played that content and was to hard to fix”. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

The grineer are too weak to win.

Whaaa? Grineer to weak?
 Vay-Hek , Sargus, Krill, Vor w/Yanus key(with void energy) Tyl Regor, Kuva Gaurdians (are basically immortal outside of Tenno dash) would wipe the floor with the sentients, straight mega stomp. We already saw what a lancer can do against soldier sentients. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

Its possible. But the thing i notice with eras eyes or even those affected eyes is the same red eyed brainwashed looking eyes we see in the new war cinematics when lotus was puppeting us.

The cinematics tell us straight up. Lotus can sense us and has some sort of power over us.

When all the other forces in the system fall. And we are the last defense. What happens when lotus flips a switch and brainwashes us?

My guess is we will lose. Cetus will fall. The duviri paradox starts off with the tenno getting hit by a void storm on the railjack.

What if after lotus activates her trump card we run get smacked by a void storm. Awaken as our paradoxical adult selves.  Then we fo a quest that further explains the void, our pasts, wally, etc.

At the end the 2 paradoxical tennos dbz fuse into one new more powerful being that lotus can't control. We now have better tenno with better everything.  We use our reality breaking powers to go back in time to face lotus right after our past selves ran.  We stop them, save cetus and then decide what to do with her.

Thats my guess where we are heading.

Sounds good.

[Marvelous_A]

The level of resources recycling of DE is absurd, no way they will just scrap their work like that

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

34 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Whaaa? Grineer to weak?
 Vay-Hek , Sargus, Krill, Vor w/Yanus key(with void energy) Tyl Regor, Kuva Gaurdians (are basically immortal outside of Tenno dash) would wipe the floor with the sentients, straight mega stomp. We already saw what a lancer can do against soldier sentients. 

Watch the demo. The grineer are getting wrecked. The corpus have been infiltrated.  S#&$ has hit the fan.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

Watch the demo. The grineer are getting wrecked. The cotpus have been infiltrated.  S#&$ has hit the fan.

Sargus, Krill, Vor and the Kuva Gaurdians are basically immortal. The sentients would would get curb mega stomped hard by these guys.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

Its possible. But the thing i notice with eras eyes or even those affected eyes is the same red eyed brainwashed looking eyes we see in the new war cinematics when lotus was puppeting us.

The cinematics tell us straight up. Lotus can sense us and has some sort of power over us.

When all the other forces in the system fall. And we are the last defense. What happens when lotus flips a switch and brainwashes us?

My guess is we will lose. Cetus will fall. The duviri paradox starts off with the tenno getting hit by a void storm on the railjack.

What if after lotus activates her trump card we run get smacked by a void storm. Awaken as our paradoxical adult selves.  Then we fo a quest that further explains the void, our pasts, wally, etc.

At the end the 2 paradoxical tennos dbz fuse into one new more powerful being that lotus can't control. We now have better tenno with better everything.  We use our reality breaking powers to go back in time to face lotus right after our past selves ran.  We stop them, save cetus and then decide what to do with her.

Thats my guess where we are heading.

It's a fun theory, but is accuracy is dubious.

The main thing is that the effect is different. Erra's eyes glow with bright red pinpricks of light. Whilst not completely identical, it's similar to the effect seen in the Second Dream with Hunhow speaking through the War, and not dissimilar to effects like Solaris lights blinking to indicate speech.

During the Erra quest, the Tenno's eyes have a particular, but no less Duviri-related effect.

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/hNgKBAH.jpg

Their eyes are most similar to the Man in the Wall's eyes. Wally's eyes when he shows up in the Orbiter are somewhat brighter, but I think that's a graphical glitch as I've found an image which has them be the same shade - unfortunately for some reason refuses to paste across to the forums so I can't show it. It's on the 'villains wiki', if you want to find it.

 

This would indicate that, for some reason, the Tenno are at least partially being influenced or controlled by the Man in the Wall.  With some slightl speculation, I have a theory on how Lotus is controlling them.

The Tenno are known for being willful little things - you kind of have to be if you kill your parents and are on board with obliterating an entire civilization. They're rebellious and cannot be properly controlled, at least during the Old War. Sure they'd follow Orders when it suited them, but as soon as something better came along (as shown numerous times in the Leverian), they'd immediately turn on the Orokin to some degree, ranging from barging into imperial chambers to massacring entire prisons. However, the direction DE seems to be going with the void is that it's the inverse of reality - instead of moving, you bring your location closer. Instead of mostly dim or dark matter, it's entirely luminous save for tiny pinpricks of darkness. And the Man in the Wall appears to manifest personality traits of whoever he's dealing with that they're currently suppressing or ignoring. With Rell, he was trying to overcome or ignore his self-doubt and self-loathing, and throughout the quest, the Man noticiably seems to self-depricate (If you were alone in that drift, you'd need a friend... even like me.) When interacting with Albrecht Entrati, who's explicitly not entering the void because of curiosity or science, it's the time when the Man seems most interested in directly leaving it, something which he apparently hasn't done despite all those yawning portals that he would presumably be able to waltz through. And whilst the modern-day Tenno present themselves, even strive to be disciplined, empathic and doing what they do because it's right first, the Man is having a complete ball tormenting the Tenno, seeming to indicate a bubbling sadism under the surface.

So, if the Tenno in the Old War were a pain in the ass to keep a consistent hold over, what would be their personality when the Man is in the pilot seat? Well, perhaps one that follows orders to the letter?

 

Of course, the Man is implicitly tied to the Void, and it's heavily implied that the Duviri Paradox takes place either there, or somehow adjacent to it. So the Tenno getting Wally eyes still seems to indicate that we're going there sooner rather than later.

[Tesseract7777]

7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

It's a fun theory, but is accuracy is dubious.

The main thing is that the effect is different. Erra's eyes glow with bright red pinpricks of light. Whilst not completely identical, it's similar to the effect seen in the Second Dream with Hunhow speaking through the War, and not dissimilar to effects like Solaris lights blinking to indicate speech.

 

Interesting... this reminds me of something I definitely found odd during the Erra Quest, when Lotus and the Tenno attack him... he talks like she is the one hypnotized, and maybe she also is by something else, but the Tenno definitely look hypnotized, like controlled zombie soldiers. Their eyes are all glowing, and the way they hold themselves always suggested to me that they weren't entirely in control of their faculties, they are just kind of floating there, seemingly without noticing the conversation going on before them. 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Sargus, Krill, Vor and the Kuva Gaurdians are basically immortal. The sentients would would get curb mega stomped hard by these guys.

We beat them all. And if spacemom  can flip a switch and mc us she can wreck them to.

As for vor he's a being of the void now. No matter how many times he dies his body can come back. He's not grineer anymore.

The whole point of the sentients coming in full force on us and taking cetus is doomsday for everyone.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

16 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Interesting... this reminds me of something I definitely found odd during the Erra Quest, when Lotus and the Tenno attack him... he talks like she is the one hypnotized, and maybe she also is by something else, but the Tenno definitely look hypnotized, like controlled zombie soldiers. Their eyes are all glowing, and the way they hold themselves always suggested to me that they weren't entirely in control of their faculties, they are just kind of floating there, seemingly without noticing the conversation going on before them. 

Did you notice during the cinematics that ballas has one weird void red eye. That the words of ballas and era suggest something is off.  And lotus says she knows she killed era.

My guess is era's not real. Ballas may actually be wally or some other entity.  And to some extent lotus may be getting used.  In the final cinematic she is straight shoved into a machine by era. And ballas seems very suspect.

Even in the demo the weird red eyes "dont be afraid" is coming off as sinister and like some sort of mind control. Affecting the cetus child and the grinneer soldier.

Perhaps lotus can brainwash others? Or is being used somehow to do so.

I like the idea that wally is our inner demon trying to take control. That our light and shadow choices have created that demon.

Its like hallow ichigo in bleach. The hallow is there waiting for a moment to take control.

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Interesting... this reminds me of something I definitely found odd during the Erra Quest, when Lotus and the Tenno attack him... he talks like she is the one hypnotized, and maybe she also is by something else, but the Tenno definitely look hypnotized, like controlled zombie soldiers. Their eyes are all glowing, and the way they hold themselves always suggested to me that they weren't entirely in control of their faculties, they are just kind of floating there, seemingly without noticing the conversation going on before them. 

In so many words - I don't think Erra is telling the truth. Whether he's aware of it or not, he's following in the footsteps of his namesake, the Akkadian god of lies.

 

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Kakurine2 said:

Perhaps lotus can brainwash others? Or is being used somehow to do so.

Most likely the latter. There have been numerous hints, some subtle (her story doesn't match up to Ballas's or the overall lore 100%), some not so subtle (Erra flinging her directly into what appears to be some kind of electric wall) that Lotus is the victim in all of this.

Hell, she even sent out a coded message saying 'I AM DYING'. I kind of doubt that the ringleader would go to the trouble of hiding a message admitting their weakness to their sworn enemy.

[--END--Rikutatis]

3 hours ago, Ceryk said:

No one else wanted to play Trials because they were super boring and ultra meta controlled.

I think there's a case to be made for calling them super boring. I personally wasn't a big fan of trials, but I played them a bunch and the whole "meta controlled" thing isn't really true, it was just something people demanded on recruit chat or clans did for speed running and getting into leaderboards. You could do trials a thousand different ways, with so many different configurations of warframes. There was a YT channel entirely dedicated to crazy setups trial runs. "Problem" with trials (or their major appeal, depending on whom you ask) was that they were not very easy to do with just pick up groups from recruit chat, you needed more communication and coordination (or at least a couple really experienced players to carry the rest). 

The Jordas Verdict in particular had a LOT of potential. One of the coolest things I ever did in WF was flying through space in an archwing, then infiltrate and sabotage a sentient infested ship from the inside, go out and fight it one final time in space. That trial was really cool, they just went a bit too overboard with the puzzles in the last part. But it had many great sections, like the elevator part with all the parkour. 

But anyway, I got off topic lol. I'd LOVE if New War did cause some drastic changes in the Star Chart and really affected the entire story/lore of the game like Cataclysm. But I doubt DE is going to do that, it'd probably mean splitting the playerbase between pre and post war. 

 

[Galuf]

It won't happen. The startchart is beeing reworked on a yearly basis step by step giving each planet new identity tiles or open world areas. Also it would be too big to not be evoked in a tennocon.

[0_The_F00l]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

It wouldn't make sense to trash a whole bunch of content, so I doubt it.  Stuff takes work to make, and isn't easily replaced.

Hah , people who played trials would disagree. DE can, have in the past and will likely in the future change tilesets and narratives to suite the evolution of the game (for reasons which can be technical , lore related, or  for better experience). The corpus ship tilesets are also drastically different from what they were in the past.

 

As to the point at hand , i expect something similar to deadlock protocol happening , like the plains will feel familiar but they will also be changed.

They could also do the whole time warp thing and make it so none of it actually happens.

In my opinion the plains are due for an update to take it in line with the other open worlds we have (not just size but also S#&$ to do).

[Deminisis]

I'm certain the New War quest will be isolated from the rest of the game. Since it is a quest unlike the plague star event, I doubt there will even be a crater in the plains where the condrix lands.

The Unum tower will likely show damage post quest, similar to how Lua appears in the Plains skybox after the second dream.

Lotus will return and act like nothing happened, just like nothing happens when we kill bosses in the game.

Its a bit of a problem in a multiplayer games with the player character as the center of the story. For consistency sake, multiplayer content will act like nothing happened, unless there is some unique visual like the plains skybox that can be different per player for story context.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

2 hours ago, Deminisis said:

I'm certain the New War quest will be isolated from the rest of the game. Since it is a quest unlike the plague star event, I doubt there will even be a crater in the plains where the condrix lands.

The Unum tower will likely show damage post quest, similar to how Lua appears in the Plains skybox after the second dream.

Lotus will return and act like nothing happened, just like nothing happens when we kill bosses in the game.

Its a bit of a problem in a multiplayer games with the player character as the center of the story. For consistency sake, multiplayer content will act like nothing happened, unless there is some unique visual like the plains skybox that can be different per player for story context.

Honestly all jokes aside I just can't wait to get normal sounding Lotus back.

[SneakyErvin]

I hope they go with a toggle similar to how we select normal and steel path at the moment, so we'd have normal, steel path, new war and possibly steel path new war for certain places. I would absolutely hate if they handle it like Cataclysm with "phased" zones, it was bad in WoW and would probably be worse here. I'd also be disappointed if they just reset everything or change it to the new look for everyone, since that would just be so boring and/or spoiler filled.

[(NSW)Symberzite]

As far as I know, planes of Eidolon are coded in a specific way where they use procedural generation to save memory space. Infact, that's why they can render longer distances than say Orb Vallis. Venus is a static mesh, so the more mountainous terrain in part serves the function of saving RAM by limiting what you can see. 

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an extra monument or terrain change on some of the open worlds. Like a fallen over condrix or a crashed mothership in the corner of the map. Maybe you'll even get a bounty to go in and clear it out like in Deimos. 

[Otaku_Hyen]

I don't think any changes in the lore should affect anything in the game on that level. They put work into making systems and they usually doing systems what can coexist. Lorewise there is a lot of things that actually could conflict but we accept it and just let it go. I think slight changes could happen but only for those whom participating and finishing that quest. Beyond the quest everything should be the same, maybe they could expand a little bit the plains.

[(PSN)Unstar]

9 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hah , people who played trials would disagree. DE can, have in the past and will likely in the future change tilesets and narratives to suite the evolution of the game

I feel like this isn't exactly a fair statement.  DE removed trials because they were constantly needing to be patched up to work, meaning that getting rid of trials actually saved them development time.  Even if you disagree with their decision to do this, hopefully you can see that this is an entirely different issue than removing content that was still in a functional state just for narrative purposes.

[0_The_F00l]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I feel like this isn't exactly a fair statement.  DE removed trials because they were constantly needing to be patched up to work, meaning that getting rid of trials actually saved them development time.  Even if you disagree with their decision to do this, hopefully you can see that this is an entirely different issue than removing content that was still in a functional state just for narrative purposes.

Just giving an example where things changed despite effort put in the past, I also did mention the tileset rework for corpus ships ( Jupiter gas city too) that was more than a polish .

They clearly invested in that old tile in the past and yet decided to move on to something else.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Just giving an example where things changed despite effort put in the past, I also did mention the tileset rework for corpus ships ( Jupiter gas city too) that was more than a polish .

They clearly invested in that old tile in the past and yet decided to move on to something else.

They still use alot of the same concepts. They were simply updated tiles because the old ones were... old. Changes injected through a quest or narrative would be a different story, since it needs to connect with the players without being a massive spoiler, or confusing to players that arent at that story point yet. None of that applied to the map updates, they were just that, map updates and nothing else. And we know DE hates to spoil, they still dont openly mention operators for instance in most dev stream when talking about them, so I doubt they'll alter something that may spoil even more within the game.

[0_The_F00l]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They still use alot of the same concepts. They were simply updated tiles because the old ones were... old. 

And in my opinion the plains are also old.

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Changes injected through a quest or narrative would be a different story, since it needs to connect with the players without being a massive spoiler, or confusing to players that arent at that story point yet. None of that applied to the map updates, they were just that, map updates and nothing else. And we know DE hates to spoil, they still dont openly mention operators for instance in most dev stream when talking about them, so I doubt they'll alter something that may spoil even more within the game.

Really ? You think the ropalolyst (and the extra long dialogue by not lotus) is not something getting in the way of the narrative for new players yet to deal with sentients or alads betrayal?

What about the granum void ? Not a significant enough change ? Solaris slaves on the ship just dead weight ?

Let's be real , DE does not give two S#&$s about narrative continuity if it gets in the way of game expansions or mechanics. There are more than enough literal plot holes created cause an old event,that no longer exists, is used as reference of the dialogue for a mission.

At the end it doesn't matter what you or I feel about it , DE will do whatever they have planned (hah) to do. 

And I honestly don't see an issue why new players would be inconvenienced, the plains were an old battleground of a fight with sentients , and after the quest we will have a relatively new battleground of a fight with sentients with maybe new sentient bones and eidolons once the dust is settled.

Once again the point is DE has in the past changed things and managed to keep things (relatively) intact. No reason to think they can't do it again.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And in my opinion the plains are also old.

Really ? You think the ropalolyst (and the extra long dialogue by not lotus) is not something getting in the way of the narrative for new players yet to deal with sentients or alads betrayal?

What about the granum void ? Not a significant enough change ? Solaris slaves on the ship just dead weight ?

Let's be real , DE does not give two S#&$s about narrative continuity if it gets in the way of game expansions or mechanics. There are more than enough literal plot holes created cause an old event,that no longer exists, is used as reference of the dialogue for a mission.

At the end it doesn't matter what you or I feel about it , DE will do whatever they have planned (hah) to do. 

And I honestly don't see an issue why new players would be inconvenienced, the plains were an old battleground of a fight with sentients , and after the quest we will have a relatively new battleground of a fight with sentients with maybe new sentient bones and eidolons once the dust is settled.

Once again the point is DE has in the past changed things and managed to keep things (relatively) intact. No reason to think they can't do it again.

All of those are locked behind certain quest requirements in order to be accessed. The only actual odd thing in all of those is Sallad V since he has no main quest requirement that locks him out. So at points hes normal and at other times sallad depending what planet you play on. For instance you cant access Ropey until after Chimera, and you cant access the disruption node until after Natah (first time you run into sentients). 

And what about the Granum Void? It requires you to do The Deadlock Protocol, which in turn has to be completed in order to access the Granum Void at will.

I just dont think they can change earth for everyone at the same time, since that would require them to set a deadline for initial quest completion, because they cant very well just change PoE on day 1 since that could lead to horrible spoilers if people go there instead of doing the quest directly. It would utterly destroy the quest immersion and I dont think they wanna do that given the size of it. So they have options.

1. Locking down PoE until The New War is complete.

2. Phasing it (shudders at the thought). If you've played Cata in WoW you know how #*!%ing horrible it is.

3. A New War map toggle after quest completion.

4. Setting a quest completion deadline and then staggering in PoE changes at X date. This would lead to crying (rightfully so) from two camps, those that want the changes when the quest is done and those that dont wanna risk getting spoiled before getting there once date X has passed.

5. PoE doesnt change at all once the quest is done.

For me option 3 is the only viable one, since that allows for the intact PoE experience with eidolons and all for everyone, plus it allows for new content potential and a fresh map with new sentient themed encounters after quest completion aswell. Option 5 is the second best option, since it impacts no one negatively, except DE, since their quest work will be a 1-hit wonder and the quest will just be a quest.