Condition Overload and Primed Pressure Point

[xTechno-TranceX]

With the recent melee mod nerfs, would having condition overload and primed pressure point in the same build be good again?

[NoLife]

Multipliers > Additive bonuses
Why would you run both? No.

[xTechno-TranceX]

5 minutes ago, NoLife said:

Multipliers > Additive bonuses
Why would you run both? No.

they're both additive. CO became additive after melee 3.0 no?

[Leqesai]

30 minutes ago, xTechno-TranceX said:

they're both additive. CO became additive after melee 3.0 no?

Correct

[Voltage]

37 minutes ago, xTechno-TranceX said:

they're both additive. CO became additive after melee 3.0 no?

Adding like damage multipliers results in diminishing returns. This is what the comment you quoted is referring to.

[Leqesai]

And to expand on your initial question.

Some builds would benefit more from both mods assigned than others.

For example. 

If you're using a weapon with very little crit chance then Primed Pressure point can be used to up the Burst DPS potential. 

Status weapons are essentially Sustain DPS so the ramp up is relatively slow (it takes a few hits for CO to fully kick in) so unless you are priming enemies with other weapons you're going to see generally lower killing speed from CO alone. Primed Pressure Point basically counts for 1-2 hits on an enemy, so you can reduce the amount needed to kill a target by this many hits. This is made more useful if you're using slash procs from your melee since the slash procs are always going to be harder hitting.

 

Basically,

If you're running a hybrid weapon then it is likely more beneficial to go with CO without Primed Pressure point. If you're running a pure status weapon Primed Pressure point is useful in increasing Burst DPS (and sustained DPS as well). I'd definetly go with both if I am running a pure status build to help bring the weapon closer to hybrid DPS levels. 

[Uhkretor]

... this again... Can't people like... decide for themselves without using the forums in an attempt to pretend being a Geth or something?

[(NSW)JigsJosh]

2 hours ago, xTechno-TranceX said:

With the recent melee mod nerfs, would having condition overload and primed pressure point in the same build be good again?

It was my understanding that the only reason they were good together was how damage from CO was calculated. That hasn't changed back, so no.

[Leqesai]

4 hours ago, (NSW)JigsJosh said:

It was my understanding that the only reason they were good together was how damage from CO was calculated. That hasn't changed back, so no.

The current system does have value with both being equipped to weapons. Please see the post I wrote earlier in the thread.

Basically, Primed Pressure point is a way for upping Burst DPS. It has a marginal bonus when looking at Sustained DPS values but Burst DPS is one of the major downsides to pure status melee weapons. Think of it this way, with Primed Pressure point you're saving 1 to 2 hits per enemy (dependent on many variables) which has long-term QOL benefits.

Against level 9000 enemies or something stupid like that it will have less value because sustain DPS is more important, but for most of the game increases to Burst DPS carry significant weight.

[NoLife]

17 hours ago, xTechno-TranceX said:

they're both additive. CO became additive after melee 3.0 no?

Yes, that's my point. Why would you use both?
ie. CO just is another Pressure Point

[(NSW)JigsJosh]

17 hours ago, Leqesai said:

The current system does have value with both being equipped to weapons. Please see the post I wrote earlier in the thread.

Basically, Primed Pressure point is a way for upping Burst DPS. It has a marginal bonus when looking at Sustained DPS values but Burst DPS is one of the major downsides to pure status melee weapons. Think of it this way, with Primed Pressure point you're saving 1 to 2 hits per enemy (dependent on many variables) which has long-term QOL benefits.

Against level 9000 enemies or something stupid like that it will have less value because sustain DPS is more important, but for most of the game increases to Burst DPS carry significant weight.

So what you're saying is that it's only good early game, which doesn't really mean much. There's a reason there aren't very many builds at all that use both, and even in early game cases using elemental mods in place of even Primed Pressure Point is better because of 75% weaknesses, on top of the fact that because of how damage is calculated with buffs elemental mods are even more useful.

Just as NoLife says above, why would you use both?

I'm not convinced there is value in using both. Not at all.

[Leqesai]

29 minutes ago, (NSW)JigsJosh said:

So what you're saying is that it's only good early game, which doesn't really mean much. There's a reason there aren't very many builds at all that use both, and even in early game cases using elemental mods in place of even Primed Pressure Point is better because of 75% weaknesses, on top of the fact that because of how damage is calculated with buffs elemental mods are even more useful.

Just as NoLife says above, why would you use both?

I'm not convinced there is value in using both. Not at all.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

There's a big difference between level 9000 meta gameplay and general Steel Path levels. 

I specifically said "for most of the game". I am not saying early game at all. I'm saying "most of the game"
There are isolated situations where sustain DPS becomes more valuable than Burst but this generally occurs when enemies scale past reasonable levels.

There aren't a lot of builds that use both because a huge % of players make builds based on what they see on youtube, despite many of the youtube partners being pretty basic when it comes to understanding how the mechanics of the game work. 

Element mods are based on base damage. By adding Primed Pressure Point the element mods you're talking about become far more useful. If you're replacing Primed Pressure Point with element mods you're pushing harder on Sustain DPS but you're losing out on Burst DPS. 

Status weapons are Sustain DPS. Doubling down on sustain will have fine results over time, which is why a lot of people who don't know any better go this direction.
Adding more Burst DPS to Status weapons shortens the time needed to kill most enemies. We're talking 1 to 2 hits less, in most cases. Many people avoid this route because they think only about the max DPS through CO not the ramp-up to that max DPS potential. 

 

You wouldn't want to put Primed Pressure Point on hybrid (crit+status) weapons because the overall Burst+Sustain DPS is going to be markedly better with crit mods over more base damage. 

 

Think of it like this. CO and Primed Pressure Point do add into the same source pool for determining overall damage. CO requires hits prior to receiving its benefits. If your weapon deals 200% status and you are lucky, landing two different status in one hit, you've only lost one hit when compared to Primed Pressure Point's bonus. If you have less than 100% status chance you're looking at a minimum of two hits before your CO provides the bonus that you're getting straight out the gate with Primed Pressure Point. 

Now, the reason CO is held so high without Primed Pressure Point is because of Viral. Viral makes the Sustain DPS numbers shoot up really fast. Viral makes the conversation weighed more towards CO without Primed Pressure Point, at first glance, but you have to remember that Primed Pressure Point is effectively two status effects applied to enemies all the time (with regard to damage modifiers) so it will always result in higher DPS than using CO by itself. 

 

This is the Grineer setup I would suggest for most status weapons (non hybrid/crit):

Condition Overload
60/60 Cold
60/60 Toxin
60/60 Heat or 90/60 Slash
Primed Fever Strike
Weeping Wounds
Primed Pressure Point
Primed Fury (Or Primed Reach if you are using other sources of +attack speed)

Always Naramon for the combo degrade mechanic. 

 

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, NoLife said:

Yes, that's my point. Why would you use both?
ie. CO just is another Pressure Point

CO is another Primed Pressure Point after you apply two status effects...

This means you have to hit every enemy enough to apply two status effects before it is as good as Primed Pressure Point. This makes Primed Pressure Point valuable when considering Burst DPS and killing enemies quickly.