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Sister's fight is a proper challenge we haven't seen in a long time


RichardKam
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We are so get used to being the most powerful being in warframe that we either can finish a mission in 3 mins or do a survival for 18 hours or nuke the whole map with a click. We can even cheese SP after melee 3.0.

Now that DE introduced one mini-boss with DR and some abilities and shield gating and suddenly the builds that you used to obliterate everything do not work. Suddenly you cannot do the "offense is the best defense" tactics and kill stuff before they kill you. Suddenly survivability, CC, armor strip and all the stuff that were widely considered useless, become the most useful.

I enjoy Sister fight because it forced me to be tactical, to consider my options and to balance damage output and tankiness.

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I gotta be honest mate, personally I've not had any problems killing my corpus lichs regardless of level.

Obviously, I've seen all the posts from players who have found it tough.   Thats always gonna happen though, especially with players who don't yet have all the toys like arcanes, all mods maxed out, fully forma'd builds on just about everything etc.

But in a team of 4 players, lichs are, at least to me, pretty easy.   Playing solo you just need to have a bit of awareness to your surroundings. They're fun and the grind being reduced is great, but they're not a huge challenge.

But, if its making some players use tactics other than just brute force, thats cool.

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I agree somewhat.

I only wish that if I start in a squad I get like a overview of the other people's lich attributes as well.

I sure as hell don't want to use CC abilities when the lich can proc radiation or magnetize or accidentally give it bonus DR while it casts iron skin or such.

Just a small little window telling me what to expect in the final boss fight for other players.

The damage cap itself feels too much pigeonholing though.

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It's not really that they're tough that I've got an issue with, since I likewise enjoy having to be tactical.

What I don't like is things around them.

 

I don't like that their particular DR de-emphasises many weapons who's main or only real purpose is to be single-target boss like snipers, because things like the Arquebex exist and I don't like that DE doesn't seem to have any idea how much damage is fair, leading to situations where squishier frames become miserable to play as around them.

In other words, most if not all of the real issues I have with the Sisters of Parvos aren't issue with the Sisters of Parvos. They're as well designed as they can be in the space they have. The issues like in thing that limit that design space.

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I’ve never bothered myself with cheezing game content (20 hours survivals, trillion damage weapon build etc), I was just playing game for fun , and dyuring my casual gameplay haven’t seen any problems with Sisters, honestly (Dropping  from 3000000 damage to 300 because of “adaptation” is realy mind breaking, but dropping  from 30000 to 300 is just okay, lol)

Edited by SpiritTeA
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I wouldn't really call it challenging.  Just different.

I mean its largely a bullet sponge...unless you bring a relatively weak dex furis build that due to how DE decided to handle making them bullet spongy can kill them much faster than a hard hitting slower firing weapon.
The biggest "challenge" of the sisters is realizing that large spike damage weapons are useless and relatively weak rapid firing weapons are how you need to attack them.  From there it's just learning how to abuse the various DR segments so that you get put into the lowest DR segment possible.

 

Or you could skip all of that and just bring a tanky Inaros build, go Melee and just sit on them bashing away until they die with no actual damage to your health at the end of the fight and approach the problem the exact same way that you can every other problem in warframe.

 

This isn't to disparage the sisters.  DE is doing what they can in the space they have, but the space has so many issues that they can't really just make something that is "difficult" or "challenging" because of how easily we can abuse pretty much everything in the game.  There are core fundamental problems that need to be addressed in this game before DE can actually create something that is "challenging" and "difficult".

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I do really like the attempt to make content like this that is more intentionally challenging my only gripe is that one of the biggest powers we have is opperator and that can completely negate alot of things but also taking it away for a fight would just feel wrong at this point in the game. Like I dont need to survivable builds with vazarin or hell even just a magus repair, and why bring a frame for cc when lockdown exists. Only times I've really died in game recently are most often due to a grapple/nullifier/acolyte removing my ability to switch to operator.

Also as another suggestion, if the boss has DR and things like mesa/arquebex aren't as effective on the boss, I'm sure alot of players who live by those would appreciate more ads in the boss fights so they can have fun clearing the room keeping enemies off the team rather than just being solid nerfed against the one use anything needs in that circumstance (killing the sister/lich). It's definitely great to see those things cant be used to full effect to just annihilate things but I do feel sorry for the mesa mains and such and would love these roles to be reallocated as opposed to nullified.

But as I say its still nice seeing content go this direction and look forward to seeing how other fights may become polished version of this in future.

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it's like Nullifiers all over again, a thing that's purpose made to punish certain types of Equipment for existing. making Players have to reverse engineer the new limitations to figure out how the rules of the game have changed now.
but it's okay, if we don't feel like doing that, we'll just delete the Enemies anyways, but it's still 'meh' to see the same cycle happening over and over where Equipment is far, far from treated equally.

 

some of the other 'features' are "extra fun additions", like not just Radiation but also Rivals of other Elements being able to apply Radiation prolifically, and Radiation STILL BREAKS THE ENTIRE ENCOUNTER. softlocking is the best difficulty, right?
some of their other Abilities are... well it's interesting that they were deemed balanced but also we'll delete them before they can attack as a remediation for the questionable designs.

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

In before "it's artificial difficulty" and "bullet sponges are not a real challenge, they're just annoying".

Both of those statements are objectively correct.  There is absolutely nothing challenging about Sisters and frankly the only boss fight I can think of from any video game I have ever played that is more boring than they are is Patchwerk.

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1 hour ago, Jim22 said:

I also like the fact that they don't have a invulnerable phase like every other boss in warframe.

that's not entirely true.. Sisters can get Hydroid's Undertow ability, which is basically an invulnerable phase: your only option is to wait for them to come out of it, during which time their shield may have begun recharging. 

I wouldn't say Sister's are that challenging, though challenge is subjective; to me, something is challenging if I have to take a step back and ponder "how do I beat this?", which is not something I have to do with Sisters, as simply taking the proper measures of modding for their weakness and using the same warframe skills I've always used in boss fights like remembering to dodge, use Magus Repair etc. is enough to defeat them. the only difference is it takes longer than it does with most Bosses to win, which is simply by virtue of them having more EHP. 

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I dunno dude, they melt just as easily as anything else out there. Not to mention that you really have absolutely no reason to fight lvl 5 ones since with known requiems even if you fail every attempt it only gets them to lvl 4. And even then, with the right elements on the gun it only takes a few seconds to take them down.

Mind you, I don't even have the new stuff yet like galvanized mods and gun arcanes.

Edited by Infirito
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2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

I enjoy Sister fight because it forced me to be tactical, to consider my options and to balance damage output and tankiness.

Idk, for Peacemakers they are not much more of a challenge than a random Juggernaut.

 

Now the frustration of them not having any Ephemeras - that's what I call a challenge (not to quit the game that is).

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The only thing I enjoyed was the evolution of the mission. tracking down murmurs, fighting the litch, using railjack to board the capital ship. Just wish I could keep someone on my railjack while I infiltrate the ship. But nope, game limitations prevent that. So much for that “co-op” gameplay. Confused Jim Carrey GIF
The DR of a litch at a level 1 v level 5 is waaay to far apart. 

Edited by (XBOX)YoungGunn82
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4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I don't like that their particular DR de-emphasises many weapons who's main or only real purpose is to be single-target boss like snipers, because things like the Arquebex exist and I don't like that DE doesn't seem to have any idea how much damage is fair, leading to situations where squishier frames become miserable to play as around them.

In other words, most if not all of the real issues I have with the Sisters of Parvos aren't issue with the Sisters of Parvos. They're as well designed as they can be in the space they have. The issues like in thing that limit that design space.

d&d nerd GIF

Especially the bolded part, because when a 1,035 Armor Exalibur Umbra melts to 3-4 stray bullets there is clearly a problem.

Infinitely CCing things or having an invincibility button are solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

d&d nerd GIF

Especially the bolded part, because when a 1,035 Armor Exalibur Umbra melts to 3-4 stray bullets there is clearly a problem.

Infinitely CCing things or having an invincibility button are solutions to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Armor is not the only damage reduction you should be using though. Due to diminishing returns you are getting less benefit from armor. It would be better to equip adaptation since the damage reduction it gives is added on top of the damage reduction from armor, making it almost universally more useful than stacking armor mods.

Also, cc is something a lot of people dont think about when it comes to damage reduction.

Subsume shooting gallery or resonator on your excal and the ranged damage you take will drop. 

 

Honestly we have so many options to reduce damage nowadays. If you are getting crunched by enemies it is likely your build is not well crafted or optimized. Ineffective builds may be star chart and sortie viable but once you get into the meaty, harder content, the holes in ineffective builds become more obvious.

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