Teshin's Orvius grappling hook : Make it as augment and obtained from conclave

[TheArmchairThinker]

Seeing how Teshin can do Valkyr's rip line when throwing Orvius, say no more, I need that as a feature

I'd accept it as an augment for Orvius/thrown melee by holding E after throwing (or any way you see fit)

Also make it come from conclave (the sweet fruit after braving the thorn), maybe at rank 4. Why? No real reason, maybe I just want to spite on those who say PvP is nonexistent

[Tyreaus]

So long as it's tradable, sure.

[p_silveira]

3 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Also make it come from conclave (the sweet fruit after braving the thorn), maybe at rank 4.

So that only a dozen players in the entire game can obtain it and sell it for 500p each? How nice....

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Sounds like a lot of tech work for an item that no one will use because it’ll be locked behind conclave.

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2021-07-23 at 1:27 AM, p_silveira said:

So that only a dozen players in the entire game can obtain it and sell it for 500p each? How nice....

 

On 2021-07-23 at 2:40 AM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Sounds like a lot of tech work for an item that no one will use because it’ll be locked behind conclave.

You have 3 choices :

- Play Conclave
- Buy from conclave players
- Don't bother

I've been thinking that Teshin's nikana should be conclave offering too, and this time for rank 5

[p_silveira]

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

You have 3 choices :

- Play Conclave
- Buy from conclave players
- Don't bother

I've been thinking that Teshin's nikana should be conclave offering too, and this time for rank 5

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2021-07-24 at 12:23 PM, p_silveira said:

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

On 2021-07-23 at 4:27 AM, p_silveira said:

So that only a dozen players in the entire game can obtain it and sell it for 500p each? How nice....

Having a dedicated conclave recruitment channel and having dedicated servers (possibility with crossplay/save/mobile coming in the near future) hosted at reliable data centres would fix that right up. 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2021-07-22 at 4:16 PM, TheArmchairThinker said:

No real reason, maybe I just want to spite on those who say PvP is nonexistent

It is. It's all but dead.

I'm UK based on X1 and after over 1000 login days and L1 I still haven't managed to get matchmade for a Conclave or Lunaro match even once.

Nobody plays Conclave. DE don't give even the slightest of a care about it. It still exists because it would be more effort to remove it than just leave it in it's broken down old-weapons-only state.

They're never going to put development time and money behind adding a feature for the few hundred US-based PC players who still have the patience to wait for a match.

 

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2021-08-09 at 6:29 PM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

It is. It's all but dead.

I'm UK based on X1 and after over 1000 login days and L1 I still haven't managed to get matchmade for a Conclave or Lunaro match even once.

Nobody plays Conclave. DE don't give even the slightest of a care about it. It still exists because it would be more effort to remove it than just leave it in it's broken down old-weapons-only state.

They're never going to put development time and money behind adding a feature for the few hundred US-based PC players who still have the patience to wait for a match.

 

Let's say we also put Teshin's twin nikana as rank 5 Conclave reward, now there's a little incentive to play Conclave. Not only that, the twin nikana has the ability to switch its element like what Teshin does on The New War trailer for the extra topping

[Birdframe_Prime]

See, while the thread has gone on about whether to put this on Conclave or not...

My actual question is 'why even make this a thing in the first place?'

We are literally the most mobile things in the current gaming landscape. Outside of a few games like The Pathless, which is entirely built around maintaining a massively fast running speed and mobility, Warframes themselves are so incredibly easy to move. With multiple forms of jump, rolls, aim-gliding and so on.

Especially when people have been trying to get Valkyr's slow and clunky Ripline changed into something way more fast-paced and viable for game play... why would you want to replicate that in an even slower manner, where throwing the weapon first is required before you can even grapple to it?

It would make sense, completely, if things like Bullet Jumping, Wall Running and Aim Gliding didn't exist in Warframe. But they do.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

11 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Let's say we also put Teshin's twin nikana as rank 5 Conclave reward, now there's a little incentive to play Conclave. Not only that, the twin nikana has the ability to switch its element like what Teshin does on The New War trailer for the extra topping

Sounds grand, but it won't make a shred of difference. Players will totally play Conclave until they get the new weapon, and maybe it will have a few weeks renaissance, but then it's dead again.

But maybe if they added a ton of new awesome weapons and mods you could only get in Conclave? Maybe, but that's a ton of work and a ton of balancing (which DE suck at).

PvP is dead in Warframe. They could save it, with a ton of investment, but it won't attract new players and it won't keep players and it won't make the players who were staying anyway buy more plat.

So from a business point of view it's just pointless.

Conclave is dead, but more effort to remove than to leave with the old frames and old weapons it stil allows.

[Test-995]

Is it just a troll post?

If not, well, I mean wouldn't PvP players want something for PvP rather than PvE things? I'm not sure if those two types of players match that well.

[Kontrollo]

On 2021-08-09 at 1:29 PM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

It is. It's all but dead.

I'm UK based on X1 and after over 1000 login days and L1 I still haven't managed to get matchmade for a Conclave or Lunaro match even once.

Nobody plays Conclave. DE don't give even the slightest of a care about it. It still exists because it would be more effort to remove it than just leave it in it's broken down old-weapons-only state.

They're never going to put development time and money behind adding a feature for the few hundred US-based PC players who still have the patience to wait for a match.

At least on PC, there are games every day.

Also, while I can't say too much about what's happening on consoles, there are console people on the Discord. And they play regularly, too, from what I can see. So that's simply wrong.

At least the "DE doesn't give the slightest of a care" is not entirely wrong. Some things get addressed once in a while, but by far not everything that they break with PvE updates.

 

 

As for the suggestion: sure, why not. It should definitely be tradeable, and they could also put it in several places, anyway.

 

 

P.S. Friendly reminder: It takes only two people to start a game. If people who say "can't play because no one does" actually wanted to, they'd just have to talk to each other and it would happen. 

[Incongruous]

20 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My actual question is 'why even make this a thing in the first place?'

Selling it as a """rare mod"""", collecting junk, bragging rights that you have said junk-mod and/or maybe having a mod that represents Conclave in general i.e. behind times, forgotten and more or less useless.

I wouldn't mind having it in the game if we still could use Universal Medallions for the standing, but since people bawled extensively after that was implemented, I don't see the point in it existing.

On 2021-08-20 at 9:01 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Let's say we also put Teshin's twin nikana as rank 5 Conclave reward, now there's a little incentive to play Conclave. Not only that, the twin nikana has the ability to switch its element like what Teshin does on The New War trailer for the extra topping

I'm at a loss of words at how tone-deaf this proposal is.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2021-08-21 at 2:49 PM, Kontrollo said:

Friendly reminder: It takes only two people to start a game. If people who say "can't play because no one does"

Oh, I can queue up a friendly game with my mates, but that's not really the point of PvP is it?

Sure, I can outside Warframe and ask someone nicely and try and get into a match with them (that's still much harder outside US latency/timezones), but it's insane set up time for a match.

To level Conclave you need to play hundreds of matches.

For PvP to be worth playing matchmaking needs to work and it needs to be fairly quick. That a match is theoretically possible if you go on Discord and nag other players into joining a match is irrelevant.

PvP in Warframe is exactly as viable as Framefighter - a throwaway piece of parasitic design some devs thought would be fun, but it's a dead end nobody plays.

There are about 50,000 people playing Warframe, and of them a few hundred play PvP.

On 2021-08-21 at 2:49 PM, Kontrollo said:

Some things get addressed once in a while, but by far not everything that they break with PvE updates

Yeah, every now and then DE forgets and accidentally includes a new weapon or mechanic that's overpowered for PvP, they never fix it, they always pull it.

Their attitude is clearly to just leave it to die slowly. I think they should just rip the plaster off and kill it already.

[Kontrollo]

40 minutes ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Oh, I can queue up a friendly game with my mates, but that's not really the point of PvP is it?

Sure, I can outside Warframe and ask someone nicely and try and get into a match with them (that's still much harder outside US latency/timezones), but it's insane set up time for a match.

Why not? As long as you don't just stand opposite each other to boost, that's all it really takes. I'd even recommend playing with buddies, the goal in the end is to have fun. 

 

40 minutes ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

To level Conclave you need to play hundreds of matches.

For PvP to be worth playing matchmaking needs to work and it needs to be fairly quick. That a match is theoretically possible if you go on Discord and nag other players into joining a match is irrelevant.

Meeting new people to hang out and play something together is irrelevant, too, I guess.

 

40 minutes ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

PvP in Warframe is exactly as viable as Framefighter - a throwaway piece of parasitic design some devs thought would be fun, but it's a dead end nobody plays.

There are about 50,000 people playing Warframe, and of them a few hundred play PvP.

Yeah, every now and then DE forgets and accidentally includes a new weapon or mechanic that's overpowered for PvP, they never fix it, they always pull it.

Their attitude is clearly to just leave it to die slowly. I think they should just rip the plaster off and kill it already.

"dead end nobody plays" ... "and of them a few hundred play PvP"

Yeah, you're totally making a point there. 🤔

But your attitude towards that part of the game is very clear with that last sentence, anyway. If only I had a dime for every time I've heard that kind of line, I'd be a rich man. It's funny really. The devs put so much effort into PvE, but people who are staunchly against PvP are still not happy. Not until others who actually enjoy it aren't able to anymore, in any case.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Why not? As long as you don't just stand opposite each other to boost, that's all it really takes. I'd even recommend playing with buddies, the goal in the end is to have fun. 

Go make new friends and ask whether they want to play Warframe's PvP? That's not really how it works.

I love it when you get matchmade with a cool group and make new friends, but without matchmaking in PvP that just doesn't happen.

I love making new friends, but a dead PvP mode of an otherwise PvE game with a brick wall new player experience just isn't the icebreaker you seem to think it is.

Standing opposite each other and boosting is just about the only thing there is to do in Conclave.

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

dead end nobody plays" ... "and of them a few hundred play PvP"

Yeah, you're totally making a point there. 🤔

Yes.

A few hundred people (or 1% or so of the player base, and they all seem to be US based) being interested in playing a mode is not enough to stop it from being a ghost town.

If you can't get a public match in a PvP game it's dead. 

If you're running a business it just doesn't make sense to invest in that.

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

The devs put so much effort into PvE, but people who are staunchly against PvP are still not happy

I'm not against PvP. If anyone was playing it, and it was integrated with the game somehow (rather than yet another island of content™) and I could just play it when I felt like it then I'd be all for it.

Unfortunately it is a dead end content island, it's impossible to get matchmade, it's a terrible place to even try to take new players and most long time players are just going to boost for the Conclave cosmetics they can't otherwise get.

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Not until others who actually enjoy it aren't able to anymore, in any case.

This isn't about taking stuff away from anyone.

If DE want this game to have PvP then they need to invest in it heavily, and in an ongoing way. New weapons and frames need to work in Conclave from launch. Conclave needs new mods and new content all the time. Rewards earned in PvP need to feed back into PvE and vice versa.

In a perfect world DE should fix PvP and make all the players happy.

But let's be real here, DE couldn't even make Nightwave ongoing (they just gave up and switched to permanent Intermission). They just don't have the bandwidth.

Warframe has a lot of content islands, and the sheer number of them end up detracting from the game. Conclave and Lunaro are just that: little dead ends of parasitic design (that take from existing systems but give nothing back).

Fixing these parasitic dead ends is extremely expensive for both game design and development. Just look at how each open world area works or the unfinished orb mother battles, or k drives, or the old archwing missions, or focus schools, or just the insane amout of work they've put in to trying to make Railjack relevant.

PvP is broken, DE aren't going to fix it (because it won't make money). I think they need to focus on unifying all the disparate mechanisms in this game, and yes, I think the death of PvP would be a price worth paying for that.

Sorry if you enjoy it, this isn't to hurt you, but it's dead. Like 99% of everyone playing Warframe I won't miss it because I've never played it.

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Go make new friends and ask whether they want to play Warframe's PvP? That's not really how it works.

I love it when you get matchmade with a cool group and make new friends, but without matchmaking in PvP that just doesn't happen.

I love making new friends, but a dead PvP mode of an otherwise PvE game with a brick wall new player experience just isn't the icebreaker you seem to think it is.

Standing opposite each other and boosting is just about the only thing there is to do in Conclave.

Yes.

A few hundred people (or 1% or so of the player base, and they all seem to be US based) being interested in playing a mode is not enough to stop it from being a ghost town.

If you can't get a public match in a PvP game it's dead. 

If you're running a business it just doesn't make sense to invest in that.

I'm not against PvP. If anyone was playing it, and it was integrated with the game somehow (rather than yet another island of content™) and I could just play it when I felt like it then I'd be all for it.

Unfortunately it is a dead end content island, it's impossible to get matchmade, it's a terrible place to even try to take new players and most long time players are just going to boost for the Conclave cosmetics they can't otherwise get.

This isn't about taking stuff away from anyone.

If DE want this game to have PvP then they need to invest in it heavily, and in an ongoing way. New weapons and frames need to work in Conclave from launch. Conclave needs new mods and new content all the time. Rewards earned in PvP need to feed back into PvE and vice versa.

In a perfect world DE should fix PvP and make all the players happy.

But let's be real here, DE couldn't even make Nightwave ongoing (they just gave up and switched to permanent Intermission). They just don't have the bandwidth.

Warframe has a lot of content islands, and the sheer number of them end up detracting from the game. Conclave and Lunaro are just that: little dead ends of parasitic design (that take from existing systems but give nothing back).

Fixing these parasitic dead ends is extremely expensive for both game design and development. Just look at how each open world area works or the unfinished orb mother battles, or k drives, or the old archwing missions, or focus schools, or just the insane amout of work they've put in to trying to make Railjack relevant.

PvP is broken, DE aren't going to fix it (because it won't make money). I think they need to focus on unifying all the disparate mechanisms in this game, and yes, I think the death of PvP would be a price worth paying for that.

Sorry if you enjoy it, this isn't to hurt you, but it's dead. Like 99% of everyone playing Warframe I won't miss it because I've never played it.

Sorry to say, but I'm not going to bother with all that you've written. You've already made your attitude clear with this:

"I think they should just rip the plaster off and kill it already."

Everything else you write looks like just more excuses after that. And I've heard that tune plenty over the years. Friendly reminder: You don't speak for DE. You do not actually know what's broken and what isn't, and you do not know what they fix and what they don't. E.g. from the latest patch:

Spoiler

• Fixed a game hitch when loading into a Dedicated Server Conclave game.

So I'm not really interested in talking to you any longer.

What's clear is that you're not happy with it being in the game. But that's really more of a you problem, I can still play every day if I want to.

 

P.S.: Feel free to not quote me again, with the stance you're taking, there isn't really anything I'd want to discuss with you.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

20 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Sorry to say, but I'm not going to bother with all that you've written...

...

20 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

So I'm not really interested in talking to you any longer.

... 

P.S.: Feel free to not quote me again, with the stance you're taking, there isn't really anything I'd want to discuss with 

And yet you wrote this whole reply, taking part of what I said out of context and ignoring my actual point.

20 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

What's clear is that you're not happy with it being in the game.

It isn't, I was quite clear I'd be happy to play it if DE invested in it.

My point is that they haven't.

20 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

don't speak for DE

You're right, I don't.

Their attitude can be clearly inferred from their actions. That's what I'm doing, not speaking for them.

20 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

You do not actually know what's broken and what isn't, and you do not know what they fix and what they don't. E.g. from the latest patch:

We both do know because they tell us in the patch notes you just cited.

They do fix the odd bug in Conclave sometimes. 

It's noticeable that they moved much quicker to remove the Ambassador (new gun they accidentally let be used in PvP).

PvP hasn't had a new feature in about 4 years (unless you count Universal Medallions, which I don't).

Infer from that whatever you want about DE's priorities.

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2021-08-23 at 4:51 PM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Conclave and Lunaro are just that: little dead ends of parasitic design (that take from existing systems but give nothing back).

Actually, Conclave does give something albeit forced and unfair : Conclave augments being put in nightwave store so you can have your Mesa Waltz in PvE for example, when it was a PvP exclusive mod so you can get your augment without even stepping into Conclave

[Kontrollo]

On 2021-08-24 at 11:17 AM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

And yet you wrote this whole reply, taking part of what I said out of context and ignoring my actual point.

Yes, I wrote this whole reply to drive it home: Your stance is abundantly clear, even if you try to partially go back on that here. For me, discussion with people like you is pointless.

 

And this reply is just to clarify another thing:

On 2021-08-24 at 11:17 AM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

It's noticeable that they moved much quicker to remove the Ambassador (new gun they accidentally let be used in PvP).

That was done on request, as well.

Because it's better to not enable new things than add new things which affect balance negatively.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Being obtainable from conclave? no since it needs improvements before any new rewards are added however I would like to see this be a unique feature for the Bishamo armour for the operators, that would be sick.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

17 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

On 2021-08-23 at 10:51 AM, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Conclave and Lunaro are just that: little dead ends of parasitic design (that take from existing systems but give nothing back).

Actually, Conclave does give something albeit forced and unfair : Conclave augments being put in nightwave store so you can have your Mesa Waltz in PvE for example, when it was a PvP exclusive mod so you can get your augment without even stepping into Conclave

Mesa's Waltz has worked in PvE for ages, it's in the Syndicate stores.

But they did make a couple of PvP mods work in PvE recently, most notably Atlas's play as a rumbler one.

However they also added those mods to Nightwave, so there's still no reason to play PvP.

The mods are all pretty awful too. Mostly interesting but minor buffs to old weak weapons (Viper anyone?)

It's still parasitic design - there's nothing (outside cosmetics) that PvP gives you for PvE that you can't also get in PvE.

I'm not sure what it could bring back now, even if they could force players into it, it's based on a version of Warframe from 2015 (no new weapons, frames or mods added since then can be used in it) and they have a bit of a epic task balancing 6 years of feature creep.

I'd love DE to fix all the parasitic design dead ends in Warframe, but if they just fix one thing they should probably start with railjack.

Conclave would be about 10th on the list.