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Looking for Secondary Weapon Suggestions for Steel Path Grineer


Sevek7
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Hi, I've been playing some solo steel path survival recently to get the new arcanes and I'm quite enjoying it.

I have many different primary weapons of varied types (auto, semi-atuo, sniper, bow, shotgun, beam) that all perform to my satisfaction against level 130+ steel path grineer. 

Unfortunately, the same is not true of my secondary weapons. In this case I have found that only my six beam secondary weapons are able to kill steel path grineer fast enough to keep up with life support.

So, I would like to ask for your suggestions on a secondary weapon that is not a beam weapon which can perform well enough to keep up with life support in a solo grineer steel path survival. 

My ideal weapon would be a single-handed full auto secondary, but I'm willing to entertain any other possibilities except beam weapons.

Thanks, and I look forward to your suggestions!

PS: If you also provide reasoning for why a particular weapon is a good choice, that would be most helpful. Also, you can assume top tier mods, fully forma'd, with a perfect riven, maxed arcanes, etc...

Edited by Sevek7
Fixed a number, four -> six
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While I can't say about using just a secondary to keep up with Steel Path Grineer survival, if you're looking for a single-handed auto secondary that's at least SP-capable, I think the Rattleguts kitgun does decently well, especially if you've got a Riven for it. I have a CC / MS riven on it and it works alright, especially with a touch of punch through.

Athodai might be an acceptable substitute, especially sans a Riven, if you're fine with its gimmick. (I don't fancy it too much)

Other (non-single-handed auto secondary) options include the Epitaph (single-target bow-like), Pyrana Prime (auto shotgun), and Sporelacer (grenade). Those may also be worth looking into if the dakka-dakka Rattleguts route stops tickling your fancy.

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Some leyzar gaming dude showed me i was using the tenet spirex wrong. you should check that out on youtube. Its actually devastating and is looking like it might be my next pet project.

High single target delete with an AoE thats just drops groups.

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Unfortunately, Warframe doesn't have any particularly notable auto-secondary handguns that are one-handed. All of the good auto-pistols (Akstilleto Prime, Kuva Twin Stubba, Prisma Twin Gremlins w/ a fantastic riven) are two-handed.

When looking at a secondary to bring to the Steel Path, what primarily matters is status chance - Straight damage will only be able to get you so far against armor without some way of mitigating it, be it stacking heat/slash procs, viral in combination with excessive damage, or corrosive to reduce armor, and unlike primaries, pistols cannot rely on Hunter Munitions to bypass the requirement for status. The primed pistol crit mods are also quite nice, so raw damage isn't as important if the weapon has workable crit stats.

Enter: The Kuva Nukor. The reason beam secondaries work so well is because they tend to have incredible status application due to high effective fire rates and ammo efficiency (most beams only consume ammo every other damage tick, effectively doubling their magazine size) and take great advantage of the mods available to pistols to make sure those procs are valuable. Kuva Nukor, if obtained from an Impact lich, can proc Heat, Slash (via Hemorrhage), and Viral at incredible pace to multiple enemies at once. Between two sources of DoT's and Viral improving their effectiveness, most enemies will melt from this alone. Failing that, Galvanized Shot causes the weapon to deal *EVEN MORE* damage to targets that have been bathed in status. Kuva Nukor in particular is great for this, because along with all of the listed damage types, Kuva Nukor has a hidden proc called "Microwave" that occurs when the enemies afflicted by it balloon in size.

However, you've specifically stated no beam secondaries, so that isn't an option.

Your next best bet will be Kuva Twin Stubbas, for similar reasons. Being a hybrid weapon that deals IPS damage on top of it's lich element of choice, with very good status, it is also quite workable with Galvanized Shot, as well as the primed pistol crit mods. The issue you will run into with these is that they don't hit multiple enemies at once, and you have to reload more often - massively reducing your effective DPS, and possibly causing you to fail missions if you're relying on them entirely.

Another option is the Kuva Seer. Often forgotten, this pistol deals damage in an AOE, and deals innate Corrosive damage on top of it's lich element. It has workable crit stats (it really likes a +crit chance, +multishot riven if you can get your hands on one), and pretty good status chance. Dealing innate Corrosive damage, it is able to obtain the quite good damage spread of Corrosive/Viral/Heat. The only downsides with this pistol are that it is a semi-automatic pistol with generally poor ammo stats, and a fairly low fire rate to boot. It also has innately boosted Zoom.

The closest weapon I can think of to matching your criteria is the Kuva Kraken. It's a single-handed burst secondary with hybrid crit/status stats, and falls somewhere in between the Kuva Seer and Kuva Twin Stubbas as far as downsides and positives. It won't hit multiple enemies like the Kuva Seer can, and has similar ammo problems, but it is one handed and has many of the same benefits as the Kuva Twin Stubbas, being an IPS weapon with an added element, making it good for making use of Galvanized Shot. Due to the nature of burst weapons, and the speed at which the burst is executed, multishot will drastically increase the amount of status you are able to dump onto a target in a short time, quickly ramping up the bonus damage from viral damage and Galvanized Shot. If you run it in combination with Arcane Pistoleer, it has an alt-fire that will rapidly dump an entire magazine's worth in a single burst, which in combination with Pistoleer can be used multiple times in quick succession.

Edited by MasterControl
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3 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

Some leyzar gaming dude showed me i was using the tenet spirex wrong. you should check that out on youtube. Its actually devastating and is looking like it might be my next pet project.

High single target delete with an AoE thats just drops groups.

The damage is pretty decent man the reload speed and magazine size are really bad.

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3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Rattleguts kitgun does decently well, especially if you've got a Riven for it. I have a CC / MS riven on it and it works alright, especially with a touch of punch through.

Good suggestion! I've used the Rattleguts a lot and do enjoy it, but I've always had trouble slotting in punch through because my build is tight. Maybe now with the new galvanized mods I can look again to see if I can fit punch through in there.

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Athodai

I never really gave this one much thought, but I just put a catalyst in and think you may be on to something! I'll put a few forma in and test it out.

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Epitaph

I've never been a big fan of the "shoot once and wait for them to die from slash proc" method, so Epitaph isn't really my style. Nevertheless, I haven't tested it in Steel Path so I'll give it a go anyway :)

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Pyrana Prime

Tried this one and was sadly unimpressed :( Feels like maybe the status chance is too low, I just can't seem to get enough slash procs to kill heavy units fast enough!

3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Sporelacer

I built this for mastery and then never looked back. I just slotted a catalyst, do you have a suggested build for it? 

3 hours ago, MasterControl said:

All of the good auto-pistols (Akstilleto Prime, Kuva Twin Stubba, Prisma Twin Gremlins w/ a fantastic riven) are two-handed.

Yes, and I'm generally not opposed to two-handed, just slightly prefer one-handed ;). I like Akstiletto Prime a lot, but find that between its low crit stats and small magazine it just never performs well enough for Steel path. It may also improve with a different build, do you have a suggestion for how to build it for Steel path grineer?

I'm not sure why but I never seem to vibe with the twin Stubbas, which is weird since I actually kind of like the single Stubba! If there was a one-handed Stubba with the accuracy and fire rate of the twin Stubbas, I would have an ideal weapon :)

I did try Prisma Twin Gremlins a bit, but I don't have a riven for it (yet). Do you have a suggestion for how to build it that works well against Steel Path Grineer?

3 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Enter: The Kuva Nukor.

Hah, yes. The Kuva Nukor is already on my list of viable secondaries for steel path, for all the reasons you mentioned! The sad part is that all six of my viable Steel Path secondaries are beam weapons, hence why I'm hoping to find something different.

3 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Kuva Seer.

I did try this, and the performance was not bad, but I kept running out of ammo! I also felt that the fire rate was a bit too slow. Perhaps I can fix this with a Warframe Arcane and an ammo mutation mod, do you have a suggested build for this weapon?

3 hours ago, MasterControl said:

Kuva Kraken

I actually am a big Kraken fan :) But every build I've tried (including with Arcane Pistoleer) has failed to meet my minimum needs. I even tried a hemorrhage build, still felt clunky and low damage. Do you have a build that works?

3 hours ago, Zhoyzu said:

tenet spirex

Ah yes, I heard that +impact on this is really good for hemorrhage since you can make AOE slash procs. My current one has a different element, so I think I'll start looking for an impact one, thanks!

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1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

Yes, and I'm generally not opposed to two-handed, just slightly prefer one-handed ;). I like Akstiletto Prime a lot, but find that between its low crit stats and small magazine it just never performs well enough for Steel path. It may also improve with a different build, do you have a suggestion for how to build it for Steel path grineer?

I'm not sure why but I never seem to vibe with the twin Stubbas, which is weird since I actually kind of like the single Stubba! If there was a one-handed Stubba with the accuracy and fire rate of the twin Stubbas, I would have an ideal weapon :)

I did try Prisma Twin Gremlins a bit, but I don't have a riven for it (yet). Do you have a suggestion for how to build it that works well against Steel Path Grineer?

The build for all three of these is pretty similar. Being hybrid auto-secondaries, you'd typically run both primed crit mods, galvanized diffusion, Lethal Torrent, Hornet Strike (some will claim that you can run Galvanized Shot instead, and that's probably true, but I don't want to deal with the slow start up of using it without a base damage mod), the toxin and cold 60/60's to get Viral and some status, and Primed Heated charge. You could arguably also swap out Primed Target Cracker for Galvanized Shot, since the critical multipliers on these weapons are so-so. Tweak to taste, I suppose.

In the case of Kuva Twin Stubbas specifically, if I had to guess the reload speed is what's getting to you. Consider running it with a maxed Secondary Merciless arcane for a bit of a boost, and personally, I run Steady Hands in the Exilus. It makes the weapon "feel" much better.

 

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

I did try this, and the performance was not bad, but I kept running out of ammo! I also felt that the fire rate was a bit too slow. Perhaps I can fix this with a Warframe Arcane and an ammo mutation mod, do you have a suggested build for this weapon?

Yeah, that's this weapon's pitfalls. If you're having ammo problems, you can run ammo mutation in the exilus and Secondary Merciless in the arcane slot for the ammo maximum bonus. As far as build, it's pretty similar to the above if you don't have a riven, although as I previously mentioned I have a CC/Multi riven that this weapon quite likes.  I ended up putting it in place of Primed Heated Charge and just riding the heat bonus from the lich. It seems to work just fine that way. In this specific case however I would not sub in Galvanized Shot as the fire rate is a bit too slow to make good use of it.

 

1 hour ago, Sevek7 said:

I actually am a big Kraken fan :) But every build I've tried (including with Arcane Pistoleer) has failed to meet my minimum needs. I even tried a hemorrhage build, still felt clunky and low damage. Do you have a build that works?

As with the other two the build philosophy is fairly similar, although in this particular case I would try and aim for a multishot riven and sub out Lethal Torrent. The burst is fast enough that it isn't really necessary and the burst delay is a non-factor. You will not want to swap out Primed Target Cracker here if you can help it, though.

 

Lastly, a weapon I completely forgot about: Hystrix. Run it on the Heat setting for guaranteed heat procs, get as much multishot and fire rate on it as you reasonably can without sacrificing any mandatory mods (another crit pistol, so you'll be wanted both primed crit mods again) base damage and Viral damage for the occasions where it will proc a few times. It likely also wants ammo mutation when played this way, and punch through as well. Great for stacking large amounts of heat procs on an enemy at once. DEFINITELY want a riven for this, ideally with punch through and any combination of multishot. damage, critical damage, and fire rate to bypass the need to run Seeker, but it can perform surprisingly well if you baby it enough. Definitely run Merciless on this for the reload bonus, the magazine is fairly small.

Edited by MasterControl
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54 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

The build for all three of these is pretty similar. Being hybrid auto-secondaries, you'd typically run both primed crit mods, galvanized diffusion, Lethal Torrent, Hornet Strike (some will claim that you can run Galvanized Shot instead, and that's probably true, but I don't want to deal with the slow start up of using it without a base damage mod), the toxin and cold 60/60's to get Viral and some status, and Primed Heated charge. You could arguably also swap out Primed Target Cracker for Galvanized Shot, since the critical multipliers on these weapons are so-so. Tweak to taste, I suppose.

This is great! Yes, I see why you wouldn't use Galvanized Crosshairs on a weapon that has slash damage. Also, due to the huge Multishot bonus of Galvanized Diffusion I feel like Lethal Torrent is really giving diminishing returns. If the increased fire rate is needed, I would rather use Arcane Velocity for that in order to free up a mod slot. I think then one could swap out Lethal Torrent for Galvanized shot, the increased status chance and CO-style damage increase would be very nice on an automatic weapon, and we could keep Primed Target Cracker. 

54 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

In the case of Kuva Twin Stubbas specifically, if I had to guess the reload speed is what's getting to you. Consider running it with a maxed Secondary Merciless arcane for a bit of a boost, and personally, I run Steady Hands in the Exilus. It makes the weapon "feel" much better.

I just tested it, and it's actually not the reload speed. It's the fact that even with Steady Hands the recoil jumps quite a lot when firing. I wish there was a mod like Vile Precision for secondaries! There's also another concern, which is accuracy. Recoil and accuracy are two different things, the recoil controls the reticle "jumping" when firing, whereas accuracy creates a spread on the shots fired. As a weapon, Kuva Twin Stubbas have bad recoil and accuracy. They bounce around and don't hit where my (bouncing) reticle is! I think I could handle either low accuracy or bad recoil on their own, but both together is too much for me! 

Kuva Twin Stubbas are also innately slash weighted. I understand using Primed Heated Charge to boost the on-hit damage and also for the armor reduction proc, but have you tried a pure slash/viral build with a big emphasis on slash? I feel like against Grineer this might be the optimal choice. I'll do my own testing after a few forma, but would appreciate any input you have.

54 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

Yeah, that's this weapon's pitfalls. If you're having ammo problems, you can run ammo mutation in the exilus and Secondary Merciless in the arcane slot for the ammo maximum bonus. As far as build, it's pretty similar to the above if you don't have a riven, although as I previously mentioned I have a CC/Multi riven that this weapon quite likes.  I ended up putting it in place of Primed Heated Charge and just riding the heat bonus from the lich. It seems to work just fine that way. In this specific case however I would not sub in Galvanized Shot as the fire rate is a bit too slow to make good use of it.

I'm still trying the Kuva Seer in-mission. It feels a bit too clunky. I'll update you after some testing - including your suggestions - to see if things improve.

54 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

As with the other two the build philosophy is fairly similar, although in this particular case I would try and aim for a multishot riven and sub out Lethal Torrent. The burst is fast enough that it isn't really necessary and the burst delay is a non-factor. You will not want to swap out Primed Target Cracker here if you can help it, though.

 Yes, that makes sense! The fire rate is already pretty fast and so a +60% multishot is not worth an entire mod slot. Still, even with lethal torrent changed for something else (like galvanized shot) this weapon still performs badly in all of my testing. (The italics indicate it's not just bad, it's bad.

54 minutes ago, MasterControl said:

Lastly, a weapon I completely forgot about: Hystrix. Run it on the Heat setting for guaranteed heat procs, get as much multishot and fire rate on it as you reasonably can without sacrificing any mandatory mods (another crit pistol, so you'll be wanted both primed crit mods again) base damage and Viral damage for the occasions where it will proc a few times. It likely also wants ammo mutation when played this way, and punch through as well. Great for stacking large amounts of heat procs on an enemy at once. DEFINITELY want a riven for this, ideally with punch through and any combination of multishot. damage, critical damage, and fire rate to bypass the need to run Seeker, but it can perform surprisingly well if you baby it enough. Definitely run Merciless on this for the reload bonus, the magazine is fairly small.

Totally forgot about this weapon! I'll need to revisit it entirely and make a plan based on testing. Thanks for the suggestion :) This could turn out perfect!

Edited by Sevek7
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6 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

I just tested it, and it's actually not the reload speed. It's the fact that even with Steady Hands the recoil jumps quite a lot when firing. I wish there was a mod like Vile Precision for secondaries! There's also another concern, which is accuracy. Recoil and accuracy are two different things, the recoil controls the reticle "jumping" when firing, whereas accuracy creates a spread on the shots fired. As a weapon, Kuva Twin Stubbas have bad recoil and accuracy. They bounce around and don't hit where my (bouncing) reticle is! I think I could handle either low accuracy or bad recoil on their own, but both together is too much for me! !

Did you try turning off screen shake in options? I found it really helps with some weapons. 

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17 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Kuva Twin Stubbas are also innately slash weighted. I understand using Primed Heated Charge to boost the on-hit damage and also for the armor reduction proc, but have you tried a pure slash/viral build with a big emphasis on slash? I feel like against Grineer this might be the optimal choice. I'll do my own testing after a few forma, but would appreciate any input you have.

The reason we run Primed Heated Charge here is because no elements have extra weight relative to each other anymore. It used to be that Impact, Puncture, and Slash were 4x more likely to proc than an element of the same damage. Due to the nature of base damage in relation to elemental damage scaling (even with only 2 60/60 mods, your elemental damage is 120% of your base damage, making over half of your procs the elemental damage you have modded on, with the rest of your base damage types getting the remaining ~40ish percent of procs to split between themselves) and it isn't worth it to run something like Fanged Fusillade to give yourself more slash weight unless a weapon is roughly 80% slash base. This ends up causing a problem with Viral and Corrosive - Those procs can only stack 10 times, and gain their largest benefit per stack on the first stack (viral damage grants +100% damage on the first proc, followed by 25% every subsequent proc, and corrosive is 26% on the first proc increasing by 6% each subsequent proc.) Because of this, after a time these become essentially "dead" procs that aren't further increasing your damage, like Slash does, and are still making up over half of your procs. The solution to this is Primed Heated Charge - Featuring +165% heat damage, in addition to a heat modifier from your lich, it will weight your procs much more towards uncapped DoT effects and cause damage over time to ramp up much more quickly. Heat's armor strip is only 50% and cannot be stacked - but the damage over time will stack infinitely with more heat procs, and although it doesn't completely bypass armor like Slash does, it ends up being much more consistent due to the increased relative weight.

 

TLDR: Purely Viral/slash will usually result in you proc'ing roughly 2/3rds more viral than slash on most setups, and after 10 stacks viral is useless. By introducing Primed Heated Charge, you add an infinitely stacking DoT effect that more favorably competes with Viral's proc weight than Slash will, resulting in faster damage over time stacking.

 

17 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Also, due to the huge Multishot bonus of Galvanized Diffusion I feel like Lethal Torrent is really giving diminishing returns. If the increased fire rate is needed, I would rather use Arcane Velocity for that in order to free up a mod slot.

What needs to be considered here is how much dps you're getting per mod, and what "method" they're multiplying damage by. Lethal Torrent is *very* good for this weapon for two reasons - It's helping you apply status faster in two ways (more bullets per shot, more fire rate) and it's also providing damage in two ways that are fairly difficult to mod in or have limited sources, (fire rate and multishot. respectively,) and don't have diminishing returns with each other. Another thing that needs to be considered is what mod you're going to be replacing this with, and how it will diminish relatively to the other mods on your build. The issue with Galvanized Shot is that it is applying 120% damage for each status after three kills - Hornet Strike is 220%, and the new arcanes are roughly 300% iirc, so the diminishing returns on this are going to be pretty rough as it isn't it's own damage multiplier on top of everything else like Faction damage, so if anything you would swap out Hornet Strike for it.

If you're hell-bent on getting rid of Lethal Torrent, the best thing to replace it with would be primed faction damage, as it double dips on status procs and is it's own seperate multiplier in the damage calculation.

Edited by MasterControl
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