Yareli problems

[Dar.Karon]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Still better than Inaros though that's probably not saying much

Actually, unlike Yareli, Inaros can at least do SOMETHING, that being facetanking level 1-200 enemies without giving an iota of a damn.

Yareli... She can barely handle level 60, let alone 200.

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, Dar.Karon said:

Yareli... She can barely handle level 60

I don’t have her yet, but this seems… odd

[Dar.Karon]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I don’t have her yet, but this seems… odd

And that's exactly the reason everyone says she's bad. She has little to no scaling damage, her abilities are bizarrely mod-resistant, she has no synergy between any of her abilities, and she doesn't even have the tankiness to survive very well, despite Merulina's 75% DR.

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, Dar.Karon said:

And that's exactly the reason everyone says she's bad. She has little to no scaling damage, her abilities are bizarrely mod-resistant, she has no synergy between any of her abilities, and she doesn't even have the tankiness to survive very well, despite Merulina's 75% DR.

I mean, odd that she barely handles 60. I push 80 in Sorties with Loki with the one Vigor just to smooth out any damage spikes a little (not going invisible, like, at all).

I honestly forgot Loki had invisibility, haha

[XAN3MK]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I don’t have her yet, but this seems… odd

 

10 minutes ago, Dar.Karon said:

And that's exactly the reason everyone says she's bad. She has little to no scaling damage, her abilities are bizarrely mod-resistant, she has no synergy between any of her abilities, and she doesn't even have the tankiness to survive very well, despite Merulina's 75% DR.

 

I humored myself and slapped 322% Power Strength on her (Blind Range, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify, Augur Secrets) and tested the damage vs lvl180 Kosma Gokstad Officers in the Simulacrum. Her 1 literally does tickles worth of damage, each damage instance doing between 18 and 48 damage, resulting in less then a pixel worth of damage on the enemy HP bar. Her 4 is not much better, when it comes to the big picture - it deals somewhere between 600 and 800 damage, but it is still an inconsequential pixel of the enemy HP bar at best. Her 3 fairs a bit "better", it can actually kill a target - if you hug them for ~18-20 seconds for the slash damage and procs to do their job.

Keep in mind, this is with the AI turned off, if any of those targets could act, she'd be dead in seconds. The 75% DR on Merulina is questionable since the damage that'd bleed through on any relevant content will likely kill Yareli before Merulina's HP is depleted.

To put it bluntly, Yareli is useless. You can scale the damage on her abilities tenfold and it would not be enough for content where it'd matter. As she is currently, even after the tiny buffs she receiver, she is DoA.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, XAN3MK said:

 

 

I humored myself and slapped 322% Power Strength on her (Blind Range, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify, Augur Secrets) and tested the damage vs lvl180 Kosma Gokstad Officers in the Simulacrum. Her 1 literally does tickles worth of damage, each damage instance doing between 18 and 48 damage, resulting in less then a pixel worth of damage on the enemy HP bar. Her 4 is not much better, when it comes to the big picture - it deals somewhere between 600 and 800 damage, but it is still an inconsequential pixel of the enemy HP bar at best. Her 3 fairs a bit "better", it can actually kill a target - if you hug them for ~18-20 seconds for the slash damage and procs to do their job.

Keep in mind, this is with the AI turned off, if any of those targets could act, she'd be dead in seconds. The 75% DR on Merulina is questionable since the damage that'd bleed through on any relevant content will likely kill Yareli before Merulina's HP is depleted.

To put it bluntly, Yareli is useless. You can scale the damage on her abilities tenfold and it would not be enough for content where it'd matter. As she is currently, even after the tiny buffs she receiver, she is DoA.

What's at level 180?

[XAN3MK]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What's at level 180?

What do you mean? The reason why I use a lv180 of that specific enemy? I find it the simplest way to simulate Steel Path enemies in the Simulacrum.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, XAN3MK said:

What do you mean? The reason why I use a lv180 of that specific enemy? I find it the simplest way to simulate Steel Path enemies in the Simulacrum. They have 1000 armor, but ofc, no SP modifiers.

Ah, I was wondering (didn't know if it was something special at 180 normal, or if you were simulating Steel Path).

🤔 Isn't there just a handful of Arcanes and cosmetics in SP? How does Yareli fare across the rest of the game?

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, XAN3MK said:

What do you mean? The reason why I use a lv180 of that specific enemy? I find it the simplest way to simulate Steel Path enemies in the Simulacrum.

Glanced through the Wiki (didn't look too deep because I want to figure things out when I get her). She seems to be terrible at dealing with armour, since it looks like 2 out of her 4 abilities are cold-based

[XAN3MK]

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Ah, I was wondering (didn't know if it was something special at 180 normal, or if you were simulating Steel Path).

🤔 Isn't there just a handful of Arcanes and cosmetics in SP? How does Yareli fare across the rest of the game?

Poorly, IMO. I leveled her in SO and at no point were her abilities of any consequence, at least while within ~150 Power Strength. As for Steel Path, it is what I play on unless the content is not available on SP. With DE embracing SP more and more, especially with the recent changes and additions, I see no point in investing in a frame that is so grossly under performing.

 

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Glanced through the Wiki (didn't look too deep because I want to figure things out when I get her). She seems to be terrible at dealing with armour, since it looks like 2 out of her 4 abilities are cold-based

Yes, they are, which is what makes them perform so poorly, on top of the poor scaling. Being able to deal with armor is the determining factor of how well a frame or a weapon is going to perform on the Steel Path, as everything else dies just as easily as on the Star Chart (For example, there is little practical difference between fighting Star Chart and Steel Path infested)

[Dar.Karon]

I see several quotes and messages highlighting Yareli's stats some more, and yeah, you all sum up my points to a T.

Someone remarked that Inaros is worse, but I still stand by the fact that, even if it's irrelevant in 90% of the game, being able to just say "No, you." to Nullifiers with no downtime in your defense is immensely satisfying.

At least Inaros has one build that can pull anything out of his stats, and Helminth can save his useless 3. Yareli, on the other hand... Not even Helminth can save that poor girl.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, XAN3MK said:

Poorly, IMO. I leveled her in SO and at no point were her abilities of any consequence, at least while within ~150 Power Strength. As for Steel Path, it is what I play on unless there content is not available on SP. With DE embracing SP more and more, especially with the recent changes and additions, I see no point in investing in a frame that is so grossly under performing.

 

Yes, they are, which is what makes them perform so poorly, on top of the poor scaling. Being able to deal with armor is the determining factor of how well a frame or a weapon is going to perform on the Steel Path, as everything else dies just as easily as on the Star Chart (For example, there is little practical difference between fighting Star Chart and Steel Path infested)

 

Weird. Not so sure DE are embracing SP with the new additions so much as helping some equipment pay the initial entrance fee in the first place, since they're releasing most actual content outside of SP and it'd have been an easy matter for them to multiply all of Yareli's damage to let her overpower SP armour with cold damage, but... I mean, you seem pretty convinced, so I can see how Yareli'd be DoA for you personally (and anyone else who's locked themselves away in the build-testing mode that is SP, I guess).

Looking forward to getting her, myself 👍

[Dar.Karon]

19 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

 

Weird. Not so sure DE are embracing SP with the new additions so much as helping some equipment pay the initial entrance fee in the first place, since they're releasing most actual content outside of SP and it'd have been an easy matter for them to multiply all of Yareli's damage to let her overpower SP armour with cold damage, but... I mean, you seem pretty convinced, so I can see how Yareli'd be DoA for you personally (and anyone else who's locked themselves away in the build-testing mode that is SP, I guess).

Looking forward to getting her, myself 👍

It would be easy, yes, but DE isn't exactly known for doing things the easy way, now are they?

They don't always put band-aids on the issue, but they sure do find weird workarounds to their problems...

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, Dar.Karon said:

It would be easy, yes, but DE isn't exactly known for doing things the easy way, now are they?

They don't always put band-aids on the issue, but they sure do find weird workarounds to their problems...

I'm thinking they may have a reason for not doing the easy thing like making Yareli powerful with her cold attacks in SP.

It'd be so easy, too. Almost criminally easy. Just a stat increase, come on!

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Surbusken said:

Yes sure, my thinking was just from the seller's perspective it's about trying to sell and promote k-drive gameplay.

As is it's just straight austin powers.

Very good point. Would be a nice carrot sine it would bring meaning to grinding the k-drive customizations and so on. Which is why modding options would also be good for it, an incentive to do k-things.

That Austin Powers reference made me laugh, because it is just so damn true.

[EvilDarknessAlien]

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Very good point. Would be a nice carrot sine it would bring meaning to grinding the k-drive customizations and so on. Which is why modding options would also be good for it, an incentive to do k-things.

That Austin Powers reference made me laugh, because it is just so damn true.

well need fix wall stuck first

[FrostDragoon]

I posted this in a couple places, but I think it's the proper way to look at it if she is to be salvaged.

 

[FrostDragoon]

On 2021-07-23 at 6:14 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Is there anything with Yareli that isnt a problem really? She is the first frame I havent even considered formaing or bothered playing beyond the 1-30 stretch. I mean, Nyx has issues since she's overly defense focused, same deal with Hydroid more or less, but Yareli is just straight up bad. Her #4 is decent at nuking infested, that is about it, the rest of her kit does practically nothing.

 

On 2021-07-23 at 6:26 AM, sunderthefirmament said:

Her passive is good.

Her 1 is actually fine, imo, and her passive would be if the rest of her kit was suited to it. The reliance on the K-Drive gimmick to drive this doesn't help anything or make it good, though. Her 3 has potential, as does her 4, but they need to be able to scale and synergize.

[Quimoth]

On 2021-07-23 at 3:14 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Is there anything with Yareli that isnt a problem really? She is the first frame I havent even considered formaing or bothered playing beyond the 1-30 stretch. I mean, Nyx has issues since she's overly defense focused, same deal with Hydroid more or less, but Yareli is just straight up bad. Her #4 is decent at nuking infested, that is about it, the rest of her kit does practically nothing.

Well, her 1 does give cc, but it is static and does a poor job compared to almost anything.

Her merulina should've had her shrunk a bit, just like titania is shrunk to actually be able to fly trough the tiles (although that is also due to how archwing actually works). The out of bounds areas can literally teleport you from the tile with extraction to spawn if you happen to be so unlucky/lucky, e.g. they didn't even bother properly coding how yareli on merulina would deal with out of bounds (probably why we they made K-drives hover on water???). The damage reduction is nice, but since we are restricted to our secondary there are simply to many situations where this is complete stupid. If it weren't for her passive the latter issue alone would put this ability down the trash bin even though her other abilities are bad too.

Merulina is a fine rolling guard like escape mechanism. It has no energy cost aside from summoning it so it is okay to use as transportation if the tiles do not have out of bounds areas (merulina doesn't work properly with those).

Her aqua blades can't be modded for range, only hit a small ring around her, enemies in melee actually do not get hit anymore. They do not scale in anyway so past lvl 50 enemies there is just no way to make them truly useful. This ability could really use some modding love.

Her 4 is good damage, but the scaling isn't based on enemy level. The damage is cold, which makes sense but in itself cold damage is just a poor damage type. It has very limited range, a mag her magnetize has more range. To put things in perspective, a non-subsumed larva is supposed to have the same range, yet it puts the enemies under cc far longer.

Her passive is really good, however with a single helminth invigoration you can achieve the same crit chance boost to secondaries and another minor bonus. You need to be moving for it to be active which fortunately doesn't limit its use all to much.

 

What needs changing?

1. Merulina, the out of bounds system hates it and so do most of the players. Put her in old tile-sets and i doubt anyone loves merulina. The current way to deal with out of bounds areas and Merulina is cheap, bad and infuriating. If this doesn't get a proper fix I do not see any reason to use her in tiles with out of bounds areas.
2. Sea Snares, perhaps this ability could be given some form of scaling based on the enemy levels. Interaction with Merulina is something that could be very interesting too, I think part of the current design is so bad because they did not want it to look to much like Nova her 1 or Yareli her own 3 (aqua blades)
3. Aqua Blades, fine as is (albeit lacking for high enemy levels, but Yareli isn't the only one having such an ability). I could however see it being useful to add a channel cast before it activates, to increase the range or number of blades of the skill. This in turn could open up more modding possibilities.
4. Merulina, lacks interaction with the rest of her kit. By this i do not just mean her abilities. Being limited to secondary whilst on it is understandable... but it disqualifies Merulina/Yareli for most players pretty easily. It might be good to be able to directional launch merulina and make that interact with some of her other abilities.
5. Merulina also needs some mechanic that scale with trickscore to some degree, this mechanic would indeed be limited to open-worlds and some of the bigger/newer tile-sets but it is a shame that she right now has just a base impact damage landing. Restoring health to merulina or energy to yareli are two easy ways to make tricks a little worth. Example: executing a k-drive trick gives 4*(str) health back to merulina capped to 400*(str) at 100 trickpoints.

 

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

On 2021-07-24 at 1:32 AM, Dar.Karon said:

I see several quotes and messages highlighting Yareli's stats some more, and yeah, you all sum up my points to a T.

Someone remarked that Inaros is worse, but I still stand by the fact that, even if it's irrelevant in 90% of the game, being able to just say "No, you." to Nullifiers with no downtime in your defense is immensely satisfying.

At least Inaros has one build that can pull anything out of his stats, and Helminth can save his useless 3. Yareli, on the other hand... Not even Helminth can save that poor girl.

I feel the main point of Inaros is for players who want a more traditional shooter, who just want to run and gun. It opens the game to a wider base. Just like Loki and Ivara allow players who don’t like stealth to progress painlessly.

i cant see that Yareli even has this sort of niche unfortunately 😔

[FrostDragoon]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)obsidiancurse said:

I feel the main point of Inaros is for players who want a more traditional shooter, who just want to run and gun. It opens the game to a wider base. Just like Loki and Ivara allow players who don’t like stealth to progress painlessly.

This doesn't make sense. Why would players who don't like stealth use stealth frames? They would be using anything but. And Inaros for a traditional shooter? These players would just run buff frames like Wisp, Rhino, Harrow, etc.

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Her 1 is actually fine, imo, and her passive would be if the rest of her kit was suited to it. The reliance on the K-Drive gimmick to drive this doesn't help anything or make it good, though. Her 3 has potential, as does her 4, but they need to be able to scale and synergize.

The main issue is that they are just weaker and more clunky versions of what other frames have. Her 1 is a worse Spellbind or Lantern, her 2 is just bad, her 3 feels like an unbuffable splinter storm that doesnt hit things in melee range reliably (nor provide DR) due to a minimum unscalable range. And 4 is like a bad mix of Photon Strike and Airburst or Larva.

The worst part for me is still Merulina, it should have never been part of the frame, atleast not as an actual k-drive. I hope this is the first and last time DE comes up with such stupid ideas for frames. I dont think there is anything they can do about that skill, outside of removing it, that will make me use it. Heck I didnt step outside the orbiter before I replaced it.

She just feels like a massive rush job.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

This doesn't make sense. Why would players who don't like stealth use stealth frames? They would be using anything but. And Inaros for a traditional shooter? These players would just run buff frames like Wisp, Rhino, Harrow, etc.

Invisibility isn’t stealth, it’s a stealth bypass, you go invisible so you don’t have to be stealthy. Invisibility is for players that don’t want to play spy but have to.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, (PSN)obsidiancurse said:

Invisibility isn’t stealth, it’s a stealth bypass, you go invisible so you don’t have to be stealthy. Invisibility is for players that don’t want to play spy but have to.

You have a backward and unpopular definition of "stealth" then. Invisibility is well within the scope of normal definitions and understanding of stealth in Warframe. Most people who like Spy missions love these frames too. Your reasoning is all kinds of backward here.

[killerJoke66]

i think the merulina being not modable is the worst , she has 2 okay cc abilites , k - drive and a fodder ability which is good because you can replace it with helmith , if only her signature k-drie were to be outstanding , her passive is pretty much all good