Garuda needs some sort of survival mechanic

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

So I was toying around with Garuda and her whole shtick seems to be low health, high damage. Ok cool. I'll put on Quick Thinking because she will always have energy and no health. One problem: you get hit by a viral proc and you instantly DIE. Skips bleedout straight to death. And this has been an issue for.....years. So if that's never gonna get fixed, how bout she get something like shield gating but for health? Really makes it difficult getting any use out of her when she's constantly being bodied. 

[Loza03]

Well, she is a blood mage themed Warframe, mechanically speaking - the sort who sacrifices her well being and life force for power. This is not an archetype that is well-known for being durable.

 

Now, I respect that a lot of aspects of Warframe heavily discourage you from playing a fragile frame. However, that's not an issue with Garuda - that's an issue with Warframe's lack of balance with respect to player survivability, specifically how highly variable it can be making it impossible for damage to ever be a 'fair' amount.

[Uhkretor]

Did you try not getting hit?

 

No sarcasm, its a serious question.

[Andele3025]

Her 1? Her 1 Augment? Adaptation ontop of the QT? Shield Gating (since her 1 is already ready for spam jumps, 2 has a 3 totem cap and 4 doesnt actually care about charge level other than width)?

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

10 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Did you try not getting hit?

 

No sarcasm, its a serious question.

I don't believe I can see it as anything but sarcasm when two of her abilities shoots her straight into the fray, guards damage from only one direction for her torso, and her 4th freezes her mid-air. She's meant to be a scrapper. Her design choice was heavily compared to Valkyr. Difference is Valkyr can't randomly die while using their power. Blood fountains and Adaptation and Arcanes can only do so much. Quick Thinking is worthless.

I don't think standing in the back and being useless was the intention. Limbo already fills that niche. 

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

I don't believe I can see it as anything but sarcasm

Yet there was no sarcasm from my part. Its solely your choice of how you see it.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Her design choice was heavily compared to Valkyr.

By Players. I have never seen, or heard, a dev saying that specifically.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Difference is Valkyr can't randomly die while using their power.

Because Valkyr's whole shtick is her Rage. Once that crap is gone, Valkyr's dies as much as any other warframe.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Quick Thinking is worthless.

Now that's the whole truth. Too bad you actually had to use it to see how worthless it really is.

 

Garuda's whole shtick is surviving with

2 hours ago, (PSN)Tactless_Ninja said:

Blood fountains

Stick 3 Blood Altars on 3 different heavy units, or regular units if there are no heavy units, in a triangle pattern and then stand in the middle where all 3 circular areas converge. I guarantee you that Valkyr dies sooner and faster than Garuda, and you don't even need ability mods for it.

Also, Garuda has no abilities that forcefully pushes you into the fray. That is a choice that you are making, and Garuda's passive doesn't mean that you have to forcefully HAVE to be at 2HP or lower for full damage bonus, and it doesn't even affect abilities. That is also a choice that you have at your disposal.

 

I could've sold Garuda, but it proved to be efficient enough to be worth keeping in my Inventory. How you use Garuda will dictate, for you, if Garuda is a good warframe or not. Useless and worthless mods like Quick Thinking are best left buried and untouched.

Oh, and before I forget, I don't use stuff in regular star chart anymore since Steel Path was released. So, this is coming from someone that used Garuda in Steel Path Solo...

[GPrime96]

On 2021-07-23 at 7:15 PM, Loza03 said:

Well, she is a blood mage themed Warframe, mechanically speaking - the sort who sacrifices her well being and life force for power. This is not an archetype that is well-known for being durable.

 

Now, I respect that a lot of aspects of Warframe heavily discourage you from playing a fragile frame. However, that's not an issue with Garuda - that's an issue with Warframe's lack of balance with respect to player survivability, specifically how highly variable it can be making it impossible for damage to ever be a 'fair' amount.

Also inconsistency Warframe Abilities have against certain enemies. Like Garuda's Mirror gets ignored by Projectiles with splash damage (except for Bombards) while Volt's Shield can deal with everything. Something like that wouldn't matter at lower levels but when you reach levels where you die before you get to see what killed you in the first place, problems like that can cause life or death.

[deucich]

Garuda was always one of the tankiest warframes in my arsenal. How is quick thinking useless? It turns your 600 energy to 1440 hp essentially (well, +2 actual hp) which can be fully restored in 3 casts. All you need is putting some armor and adaptation on top of it. And since her 1 protects you quite a lot, you don't even need to face as much damage as many other warframes.

If you need a health gating, there's already one - Martyr Symbiosis. But it won't work for Garuda constantly running with 2 hp.

The real pain for Garuda is healing by allies forcing you to loose half of your damage output.

[taiiat]

15 minutes ago, deucich said:

How is quick thinking useless?

referring to the absolutely ancient Bug/oversight of that if QT is active, and you get hit by Viral Status, you will be Script Killed.

[deucich]

3 минуты назад, taiiat сказал:

referring to the absolutely ancient Bug/oversight of that if QT is active, and you get hit by Viral Status, you will be Script Killed.

That just means you shouldn't go to radiation\viral sorties without status immunity... Maybe there're some others instances of getting viral proc, but it's even more rare

[Leqesai]

58 minutes ago, deucich said:

Garuda was always one of the tankiest warframes in my arsenal. How is quick thinking useless? It turns your 600 energy to 1440 hp essentially (well, +2 actual hp) which can be fully restored in 3 casts. All you need is putting some armor and adaptation on top of it. And since her 1 protects you quite a lot, you don't even need to face as much damage as many other warframes.

If you need a health gating, there's already one - Martyr Symbiosis. But it won't work for Garuda constantly running with 2 hp.

The real pain for Garuda is healing by allies forcing you to loose half of your damage output.

I have never been able to fully utilize a build focused on maintaining 2hp. I imagine pillage or other shield generation abilities would be very useful on her, as well as brief respite and other ability to shield conversion mods. 

Kind of funny that she doesnt play nice with frames that let her bleed herself dry over and over. You would think the damage buff would be a duration based bonus consistent with the amount of health bled with her 3.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

8 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Kind of funny that she doesnt play nice with frames that let her bleed herself dry over and over. You would think the damage buff would be a duration based bonus consistent with the amount of health bled with her 3.

It's Oberon preventing Ember from activating her old "on fire" passive all over again.

Anyway, more on topic, I replaced her Altar with Nourish since it gives instant healing on the go and can create an infinite energy loop with Bloodletting. The Nourish damage buff also stacks multiplicatively with her passive, and it adds Toxin to her 1 and 4 as a little bonus. Doesn't help that I run negative efficiency which makes Brief Respite even better, but the Quick Thinking health is a nice fallback so you don't have to exclusively rely on shield gating in less high level content.

If Viral is that big of a problem, run Wyrm and plead to DE for a QT fix.

[SpiritTeA]

Swapped her 2 for molt with regenerative molt augment  for the sake of being very mobile. If you click buttons right you won’t ever die

[Redfeather75]

Ignore Uhkretor everyone. As of this post, his profile reveals 272 kills for Garuda and 0 assists. I've used Gardua 4 times as much and I only leveled her for mastery and subsumed her.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

Ignore Uhkretor everyone. As of this post, his profile reveals 272 kills for Garuda and 0 assists. I've used Gardua 4 times as much and I only leveled her for mastery and subsumed her.

Those stats can be misleading.  Kills generally only count those made with abilities (not sure about her Talons), and depending on build and content he could be getting 99% weapon kills with Garuda. And to whatever extent he's playing solo, zero assists would be expected, I think.

 

[Redfeather75]

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Those stats can be misleading.  Kills generally only count those made with abilities (not sure about her Talons), and depending on build and content he could be getting 99% weapon kills with Garuda. And to whatever extent he's playing solo, zero assists would be expected, I think.

 

If you go and look at your frames, the ones that have 900k-1m xp are ones you just leveled for mastery. It's pretty clear who has a ton of experience with a frame and who doesn't.

[Leqesai]

13 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

It's Oberon preventing Ember from activating her old "on fire" passive all over again.

Anyway, more on topic, I replaced her Altar with Nourish since it gives instant healing on the go and can create an infinite energy loop with Bloodletting. The Nourish damage buff also stacks multiplicatively with her passive, and it adds Toxin to her 1 and 4 as a little bonus. Doesn't help that I run negative efficiency which makes Brief Respite even better, but the Quick Thinking health is a nice fallback so you don't have to exclusively rely on shield gating in less high level content.

If Viral is that big of a problem, run Wyrm and plead to DE for a QT fix.

This is a good idea. Question though, do you also run with natural talent? As far as I remember nourish has a somewhat long cast time.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

29 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This is a good idea. Question though, do you also run with natural talent? As far as I remember nourish has a somewhat long cast time.

It's a Blood Forge run-n-gun semi-meme build, so yep. Would've been driven insane by all the cast times otherwise. Also, for those cases where you don't need to rely on constant shield gating to stay alive, you can use Rejuvenation as your aura if you wanna run Blood Forge. Any amount of health above the minimum lets you cast Bloodletting to reload your guns. If you're not running Blood Forge though, there's no need to use Rejuvenation.