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Time for the Harrow Systems to Migrate to Another Source.


CalamitousPrime

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Tier 3 Defection has to be , quite possibly. The most unpopular game mode in the entierty of Warframe. 

I have been trying to get a squad to play it with for actual days and cannot get people for it. 

 

DE please just reconsider this source. This game-mode is awful and noone wants to play it . 

I want to play Harrow, but for gods sakes im about to just give up and not even touch him becaue the farm is so awful to recruit for. And needless to say noone is sitting in the nodes waiting for people to join because noone plays them

 

 

Edit: 

So I ended up grabbing two people to farm it , and the farm lasted two games before they got bored enough and fed up with the so called "11% drop chance" that this farm offers on Tier 3 nodes that they just quit. 

Seriously, at this point its not even worth the time.. 

 

Summary: 

Overall I appreciate the feedback from everyone. But please relaize that warframe synergies do not solve the issue when you cannot have a synergy with one player anyways. 

Farming a specific frame, using a specific ability, these are all moot points. Overall if Pablo likes new things , then they should maintain these new things to be beneficial outside of a farm for one part that everyone already has. One person outright just told me one day "Youre better off just pulling out a card and paying for it like everyone else did". What a take.  

And also, How in the he** has the word about escort missions in video games not been beaten to death that we dont like them? They are never good! 

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I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

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3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

I don't disagree with the notion on the whole, but there is an issue with how rewarding Defection and Salvage as modes are, as in, they are not, at all. Outside of the rotation that drops the warframe blueprtints, there is nothing rewarding about about the rest of the lootables, which is what makes them such problematic mission types. Both are unrewarding, time gated and end up wasting your time for nothing.

If those issues were to be corrected, the perspective on those nodes would drastically change.

I still don't have a second harrow for the Helminth, it is the only frame I've not subsumed, simply because I can not commit to long farm sessions without my brain going numb, not with each run lasting roughly 16 to 20min without the ability to drastically reduce the duration. I can sit 2+ hours in SP survival, I can not for the life of me do more than 2 or 3 defection runs, back to back, before my brain attempts to crawl out through my ear and run for the hills.

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The biggest issues with Defection:

  1.  Survivor AI
  2.  Survivor survivability and scaling per round. (Enemies hit harder, survivors take less punches.)
  3.  Duration. If you have all groups moving at the same pace, it's sorta bearable, but maintaining batteries and survivor health and... it's a lot of extra steps.

If the first 2 issues (Survivors can repath if they get stuck and scale better per round), it would be bearable. It is literally an escort mission and that's the biggest note. Nobody likes Escort missions in games because the AI is tricky and can't defend itself properly when necessary.

It IS outdated and while I agree with this:

15 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

I also think tweaks could be done. Double-down on the intent of the mission, fix the major flaws/bugs and reduce the RNG problems.

Unfortunately, the biggest sour note to come from Tennocon is Pablo's comment about it being better to do newer things than fix older things. This shines in Defection and many game modes. I think we need them to revisit these bad things and either tweak them better or erase them from the game. Many of these changes I think would be simple changes, like tweaking the unit survivability of the Grineer defectors themselves. These should be built-in, but imagine if you tweaked their base stats better by a bit. Simple, but effective. AI would be a lot harder to fix I think though.

This mission mode also forces very specific warframes. This isn't anyone's game and that's a very unappealing factor.

 

Side Note: The Plot surrounding it is actually kinda important for Steel Meridian and Red Veil, but lacks a lot of context. So that's a thing.

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sadly that's part of the warframe cycle; new content gets added that we play for the rewards, then once we get them we never go back. nobody played Granum Void after getting Protea until Sisters of Parvos was tied to it. nobody plays infested Salvage once they have Nidus. nobody does the Orb Mothers and Toroid farming once they've got Baruuk and Hildryn, etc.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

like tweaking the unit survivability of the Grineer defectors themselves.

I thought that's what Adrenal Stims in the Dojo were for? making defectors tougher, faster etc.? I could be wrong, but I'm sure they exist.

but yes, Defection sucks, and Harrow is the only reason people will go through with it. I think it'd be better if syndicates with quest frames gave the blueprints, so red Veil would give Harrow, Perrin Sequence gives nidus, New Loka gives Titania and Suda gives Octavia, and I suppose Arbiters could give Grendel since not many people I've seen like doing those missions either. each part should be expensive though; 120k standing, rank 5 only, so you still have to put some effort in, but not doing the same mission over and over.

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... I don't particularly enjoy Defection, but I don't hate it either...

However, I was lucky enough to get... 12 Harrow Systems Blueprints in a single afternoon, while I was searching for the Expel Corrupted mod. Too bad they aren't tradeable, because I sure wouldn't mind spreading 'em for anyone that wants one.

 

... But its a bit... I don't know, I feel like players shouldn't have to do Tier 2 and Tier 3 Defections to get THAT blueprint, rotation C on top of that, while leaving Tier 1 completely empty of valuable and/or worthwhile rewards...

 

... Come on... relics? We can't get enough traces to refine and open the thousands we have stored in our inventories (veterans only).

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What do you mean you looked for a squad ? Just grab your favorite healer and get it done, you would have done that many more runs in the time you looked for squads.

And maybe, as you keep going at it, you'll be better and better at the game mode, thus giving you a nice sense of accomplishment when you finally drop the part.

Or we can all whine until it's moved to another place that would make the process of getting the system as brainless as it is to get the chassis.

I'm dramatizing the solution of course, but you get the point, just let rewards like this be nice unique small experiences of their own, that you have to get out of your way to get, rather that something that requires very little comitment, just as exciting as a piece of rubedo.

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Wisp built for Strength and Duration with Fused Reservoir Augment and subsumed Empower helminth ability makes this a lot faster and easy to run solo. The reservoirs give the crew health regen so no having to wait at med stations for them to heal or needing to get the power sources for them. The bonus move speed shortens the time it takes to get them to the ship. The increased move speed along with the shock motes allow them to basically run past infested with little danger.

And at least from my experiences the fact that the crew and I were moving as fast as we were seemed to cause the infested spawn to have trouble keeping up since there were few and far between. The only real threat was the red veil mobs, but the increased health plus regen still meant the crew were in no danger as long as I was timely with dispatching the threat.

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Harrow systems is the only warframe part I haven't got. I really don't like defection. I don't necessarily want it to go or the drop to be removed, but I would like to see that and infested salvage have more purpose and defection being less tedious. 

One idea for defection I have is to reward grineer crew members (or a contract item to purchase them from an appropriate syndicate) which would help give it some replayability without getting the harrow drop. Another idea I had to improve the flow of the mode is to make the healing stations heal bigger amounts in short timed pulses and have a battery station that powers all health stations simultaneously, separated from the health stations. 

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I don't know why DE creates every game mode and essentially put 1 thing useful in it so you really just do the entire thing for 1 potentially useful reward. And after you get want you want the game mode essentially doesn't exist for you anymore...

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RIP. I had to run T3 defection solo on PC and PS4. Infested Salvage too.

Moving Harrow out of the drop table? Reasonable, but mixed emotions. And of course there will be no reason to ever play defection again.

I would like if Defection could get reworked to be less sucky or have some meaningful reward (like Kuva). But that's a long wait for a train that won't come.

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3 hours ago, Voltage said:

I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

I mean if people only play defection for Harrow then never touch it again it means there's something wrong with the gamemode

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3 hours ago, Voltage said:

I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

I think the least DE could do is rework Defection because it's really buggy and the AI is horrible. I had many instances when i was farming Harrow where the defectors would get stuck in the scenario and just ruined the whole thing. It's a stressful, unfun mode, that's the issue. 

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44 minutes ago, V2lkyr said:

I mean if people only play defection for Harrow then never touch it again it means there's something wrong with the gamemode

99% of the game is structured this way. Even the Steel Path really isn't rewarding once you have everything it offers as the rotation rewards are the exact same as normal missions. Warframe's entire design philosophy boils down to "one and done" modes and mechanics. Defection isn't good but it's just as comparable to Sisters of Parvos or Railjack in this regard of "people only play it for one thing to finish it and move on".

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This thread (and a few like it) got me thinking, but the reply I was going to post here was too broad and borders on off-topic, so I made a separate thread for it.

Spoiler

 

It is related, though, so I'll ask the core question here:

What would it take for you to *want* to run this mission outside of the one-time rewards like frame parts?

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3 hours ago, Learicorn said:

I think the least DE could do is rework Defection because it's really buggy and the AI is horrible. I had many instances when i was farming Harrow where the defectors would get stuck in the scenario and just ruined the whole thing. It's a stressful, unfun mode, that's the issue. 

It's because the tile set is incompatible with the game mode. Infested Grineer Ship would have been a lot better.

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb CalamitousPrime:

Tier 3 Defection has to be , quite possibly. The most unpopular game mode in the entierty of Warframe. 

I have been trying to get a squad to play it with for actual days and cannot get people for it. 

 

DE please just reconsider this source. This game-mode is awful and noone wants to play it . 

I want to play Harrow, but for gods sakes im about to just give up and not even touch him becaue the farm is so awful to recruit for. And needless to say noone is sitting in the nodes waiting for people to join because noone plays them

 

 

Edit: 

So I ended up grabbing two people to farm it , and the farm lasted two games before they got bored enough and fed up with the so called "11% drop chance" that this farm offers on Tier 3 nodes that they just quit. 

Seriously, at this point its not even worth the time.. 

 

not only now but from the beginning!
absolutely lousy mission that hardly anyone wants to play.
even if it is easy enough with wisp.

that was the last normal waframe that i used for mr30 and i almost puked while farming.

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I always find defection complaints bizarre when the only complaint it should have is being boring. It's the only endless mode where killing enemies is entirely optional (Limbo/subsume Banish + augment or Vazarin Protective Dash) and literally has no fail state if you just take the correct frame and with a squad is possibly the fastest endless mode.

As well the pathing issues are more rare than people claim (though I'd suspect it's worsened by poor quality connections) and most if not all of them can be solved by walking into the stuck unit a few times.

 

As for the actual topic however, no. There is no reason to dilute more pools with one/two-off rewards when it is a perfectly fine mode when you bother to learn it.

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