Time for the Harrow Systems to Migrate to Another Source.

[MqToasty]

7 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I only run it to help others get the part they need. It has nothing for me, incentives wise. The easy way is to get two Wisps, place motes on A, B, C, and the defector exfil site. After that it's a matter of keeping trash under control, life support mostly full, and praying to RNGesus that they don't get stuck or glitch out.

Yeah, I recall being mostly alone towards the end because no one else wanted to stay for Rotation C.  Had to juggle the motes a bit, but Wisp has more than enough energy to do that, so it wasn't a real problem (until Ancient Disruptors showed up, but it was still manageable).

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly I think it isn't passion for the game mode so much as the "You must go through the same pain I did" or "I had no problem so you're lying about it being buggy" syndrome that a lot of Warframe has.

...Like the Sibear Cryotic farm which still has people crawling out of the woodwork saying that changing it would be a slap in their face, despite them likely having long since leveled/sold the Sibear for Mastery Fodder.

Every time DE makes anything less stupid of a grind there's always at least one person who thinks their time has retroactively been invalidated...like when the adjusted the stats on Reactors in Railjack...or when they changed what Reactors did on Railjack...or every time Riven mods get changed, the list is very long.

I guess?  Though I honestly did not find it to be that painful.  Obviously this is subjective, but I found the Khora farm to be 10 times worse.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, MqToasty said:

I guess?  Though I honestly did not find it to be that painful.  Obviously this is subjective, but I found the Khora farm to be 10 times worse.

The Khora farm is 10 times worse, but the difference is more akin to a railroad spike to either the foot (Harrow) or the hand (Khora) imo.

The hole in your foot isn't quite as much of an impairment, but god above does it still hurt.

[PublikDomain]

6 hours ago, Aldain said:

Can we just delete Defection from the game while we're at it?

Reduce, reuse, recycle. Nothing should be deleted, if it's bad it should be fixed. Defection could be improved as a gamemode by making Stims not such a pain, maybe by putting them in the mission directly as a mechanic, and by adding multiple dropship rooms closer to Kavor groups to make extractions shorter so it's less likely they get stuck on things. The random events like Manics or Operatives could happen more frequently and side objectives could be added, like "hey, while you're here there's a vault to crack". Side objectives could be nice to have elsewhere too to spice things up a little. The Harrow part could be moved to the Red Veil Operative drop table - it'd be basically a C rotation drop, but separate from the existing tables and farmable using Nekros/Ivara/etc. Plus you'd have more chances for it to drop since they attack as a group. There's a lot that could be done to make existing content good, and deleting things only means there's less for us to do.

[FrostDragoon]

10 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Reduce, reuse, recycle. Nothing should be deleted, if it's bad it should be fixed. Defection could be improved as a gamemode by making Stims not such a pain, maybe by putting them in the mission directly as a mechanic, and by adding multiple dropship rooms closer to Kavor groups to make extractions shorter so it's less likely they get stuck on things. The random events like Manics or Operatives could happen more frequently and side objectives could be added, like "hey, while you're here there's a vault to crack". Side objectives could be nice to have elsewhere too to spice things up a little. The Harrow part could be moved to the Red Veil Operative drop table - it'd be basically a C rotation drop, but separate from the existing tables and farmable using Nekros/Ivara/etc. Plus you'd have more chances for it to drop since they attack as a group. There's a lot that could be done to make existing content good, and deleting things only means there's less for us to do.

While I mostly agree with you on principle, there are a few things they could utterly delete and I wouldn't feel anything of value was lost:

Defection, Rush, Pursuit, most of Deimos' "stand and wait" style bounties, having to grind for standing (or at least the daily caps on it), K-Drive, Orphix, those flying face huggers on Deimos, nullifiers, 50% of melee weapons in the game...

If they were going to fix Defection, I would change its tile set to one less cluttered with wider hallways, reduce the number of entities per squad so they get hung up on each other less, make them automatically begin running to the next point once their health is topped off by life support, and increase the overall quality of the entire drop table for this mode.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

If they were going to fix Defection, I would change its tile set to one less cluttered with wider hallways, reduce the number of entities per squad so they get hung up on each other less, make them automatically begin running to the next point once their health is topped off by life support

And also apply a /unstuck failsafe to the NPCs.

I don't care what anyone says, those escort NPCs can and WILL get stuck in walls or other bits of geometry, especially if the host is glitchy.

The other thing they could do is make the reward structure similar to Disruption, no full on fail state, but have the rewards be based upon the number of successful evacuees similar to how Disruption gives a rotation reward based on successful conduits.

[FrostDragoon]

10 hours ago, Aldain said:

The other thing they could do is make the reward structure similar to Disruption, no full on fail state, but have the rewards be based upon the number of successful evacuees similar to how Disruption gives a rotation reward based on successful conduits.

Definitely this.

[Fallen77]

Le 25/07/2021 à 19:58, CalamitousPrime a dit :

I heard "Play a warframe you dont want to" and "Farm petty resources while you waste time not doing higher level content" tbh. 

But yes, I understand what you mean, but "Just adapt" doesnt help solve the problem as a whole. Playing by oneself is never as entertaining as just running it solo the whole time and that is something that DE understands and has tried to address in other situations (Such as railjack) .

Also, only having a healer isnt enough . There needs to be: 

- CC for higher level infested

- A vauban to make speed pads 

- Healing

- AOE burst 

Otherwise there arent enough optimizations to make your time well spent. Youll spend half an hour in this mission waiting for defection to snail crawl all the way there. 

 These are pretty much the staples for defection. The best squad you can have for this is: 

- Equinox 

- Vauban 

- Wisp 

- Pick a fourth . 

Because believe me , Ive done plenty of tier III defection at this point and I gotta say, 11% drop chance for a harrow chassis is a lie. 

I don't care that you don't want to play a healer. If you wanna slow yourself down on purpose it's your problem. The game is based around the idea of "the right tool for the right job", that's just how it is.

You're not farming "petty ressources", you're farming harrow. If you consider him a petty ressource, then don't farm him.

I never argued that going solo would be more fun, I argued that it would go faster than pleeding for an hour for a lost soul to join you in defection. While you're still looking for a volunteer to make your optimized team, I'm already in my second run.

Also, yes, a healer is all you need.

Sure, a vauban might speed up the process, it might also jam the escortees into the terrain geometry.

CC ? For real ? Lol, no you don't need CC, even for the supposite "higher level infested". Any half properly modded gun can wipe the floor.

Oh you've done a lot of defection uh ? Sorry mister, I only grinded harrow twice and entirely solo, clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about. 

11% is not a lie, you just don't understand how rng works.

[FrostDragoon]

On 2021-07-25 at 10:58 AM, CalamitousPrime said:

These are pretty much the staples for defection. The best squad you can have for this is: 

- Equinox 

- Vauban 

- Wisp 

- Pick a fourth . 

The best squad is 2 Wisp with decent weapons. That's all you need. The rest is boredom, patience, and praying to RNG that your run doesn't get bugged out.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just ‘cause you don’t find the game mode enjoyable in anyway doesn’t mean that they should just automatically remove the reward and put it somewhere else where you do find it enjoyable to farm. 

I personally don’t like doing Sanctuary Onslaught but that doesn’t mean I should just start begging DE to remove all the rewards from the game mode and put it somewhere else because of the sole reason that I didn’t find that game mode enjoyable.

 

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Just ‘cause you don’t find the game mode enjoyable in anyway doesn’t mean that they should just automatically remove the reward and put it somewhere else where you do find it enjoyable to farm. 

I personally don’t like doing Sanctuary Onslaught but that doesn’t mean I should just start begging DE to remove all the rewards from the game mode and put it somewhere else because of the sole reason that I didn’t find that game mode enjoyable.

 

Fair enough, but SO gets played for a number of reasons, not just the rewards. We can't say the same of Defection.

[xXDeadsinxX]

On 2021-07-27 at 9:56 AM, FrostDragoon said:

Fair enough, but SO gets played for a number of reasons, not just the rewards. We can't say the same of Defection.

Well of course, SO does get played for a multitude of reasons and many players do enjoy SO for that reason, whereas Defection is really only played when you’re trying to farm that Harrow part, otherwise you likely won’t play it again since it offers no other rewards and that it’s basically just a waiting game trying to escort the survivors to safety, which can be boring to some.

But again, just because someone dislikes a particular game mode doesn’t automatically mean that DE should just remove all the rewards from it and put it somewhere else because that person is begging for it because of their dislike of said game mode.

[FrostDragoon]

51 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Well of course, SO does get played for a multitude of reasons and many players do enjoy SO for that reason, whereas Defection is really only played when you’re trying to farm that Harrow part, otherwise you likely won’t play it again since it offers no other rewards and that it’s basically just a waiting game trying to escort the survivors to safety, which can be boring to some.

But again, just because someone dislikes a particular game mode doesn’t automatically mean that DE should just remove all the rewards from it and put it somewhere else because that person is begging for it because of their dislike of said game mode.

I think there's a fair case that when the vast majority don't like the mode, said rewards could be put elsewhere. Otherwise, the other option is fix what players find wrong with the game mode (in this case, good luck; nobody likes escort missions) and/or vastly increase the rewards for that most (which DE is unlikely to do).