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Waverider is pretty bad.


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Numerous complaints (many of which have been mine) have been made about Kdrives since release.  They feel unfinished, lack any semblance of polish, are nearly useless and do literally nothing that other things don't do better.  The collision detection is so overtuned that you can hit nothing and fall off the board, the physics are so awful that you very literally go ragdolling in slow motion hundreds of meters after a collision with no way to do any warframe/ninja type maneuvers to recover.  In fact, being on a Kdrive seems to completely discount the fact that we are insanely strong, fast, and agile with the ability to defy physics with even our basic move-sets in completely stock warframes.  Nope, none of that is taken into account and because you hit an invisible pebble or a particularly thick pocket of air you now get to spend the next eternity watching your warframe slowly ragdoll through the air and then roll across the ground.

Before anyone says "git gud" I was routinely at the top of the race leaderboards when grinding VK standing to complete my mod collection.  I'm not bad.  Kdrives are bad.  Everything about them is pure, concentrated jank.  What did DE do?

Make a buggy quest where you have to do a bunch of tedious tasks with mandatory load screens inbetween the tasks, and half the time the tricks don't register despite the exact same control inputs with the exact same animations playing.  It took me like 15 minutes to get "grindy" done just because sometimes it would register and sometimes it wouldn't.  Same trick every time with well beyond the required score.  

And the reward for this boring, frustrating quest focused entirely around this pointless, unfinished meme activity that DE felt the need to waste time developing?  A warframe with no skill synergy, a crappy non-moddable exalted Kdrive so that you can have all sorts of Kdrive "fun" in any mission, and research that requires you to build a whole brand new lab literally just for her that finally invites more NPC's into your dojo without giving any sort of lore explanation as to why there's now kids in our dojos.  Four days of waiting, a Forma and one of each built Faction material just to have the privilege of waiting another 84 hours just to get a sub-par warframe.

Between this mess and the dumpster fire that is Sevagoth required twice as much forma as any given frame I really want someone to try and tell me that DE isn't drastically increasing grind in nearly every area of the game.  They're getting way worse than when I started playing years ago and everyone is letting them get away with it.

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Buggy quest? Friend of mine let out the loudest kek I have heard from him. He completed the quest in first day of the patch and he says it worked 100% fine. He even admitted that some of the challenges were a bit daunting feeling as he hasn't done any K-Drive for a quite a while and he is not even that good with K-Drive. Load screens between tasks are kind of mandatory for saving your progress. Do you REALLY want to just go for about 3 hours of game play and only with manual save then something happens that pretty much nullifies all of the progress you made in that 3 hours?

Spoilers, You don't want that. Biggest pain in the rear you can ever imagine is having something like that happen and nobody deserves it. K-Drives are working just fine for him maybe remember to holster your sidearm when you are done clearing nearby enemies. What comes on Sevagoth, pretty sure that is player choice whether you want to invest resources to piece of equipment. Or did this suddenly one day become not a player decision? If you like something and want to keep using it. Use your resources as you see fit. If you don't like something just max it out, throw it away and move on with your life.

 

Also pretty sure there are others too who also went through it just fine without any kind of bugs. My friend knows there are a lot of problems within the game, for one this game is huge time investment heavy game so if you don't like a game like that he definitely wouldn't recommend it. He likes this game but is open to talk about the problems it has. Because of the new update he has been cursing his forma situation quite a lot and still hating that he has to wait (Pretty much) entire day JUST for one. The new damage dealt calculation method on the nemesis enemies is just super annoying in his opinion and would advocate at least giving it a second thought.

Game's claustrophobic tile set design what comes on Yareli needs to be given a thought. Graxx tennogen items, MIGHT be bugging out the sisters of parvos and liches not to spawn with ephemera not confirmed yet but two cases he has heard where item conflict COULD be the cause. (Not confirmed yet but like I wrote two incidents of item conflict might have something to do with but it also could just be RNG being RNG)

The whole thing about 3 hours of game play was that if you go through that amount of time. You damn well want to have your progress saved. Friend of mine is close of the end of closed beta player and he has lots of stories of progress lost because of host migration or something else from there to here. Most of the loading screens you go through save the changes you make to your equipment etc. Friend of mine has gone through server connection loss a few times and had to make changes to his equipment again because of the server connection loss it didn't save them. He was very frustrated when he finally got a larvling that was going to spawn with Kuva Hek if he secret mercy killed it.

He some reason lost connection to server and was kicked out in to log in screen and guess what. He didn't get that kuva lich with Kuva Hek. Don't know how many he skipped to get it again but probably was more than 10. He speculated that it is probably client side issue though as he has strict nat because of certain ports on his end are not open.

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your grindy didn't register feels more like you didn't perform it enough to get 50 points, only then it will count. i completed that quest in 1 hour or so, even less and i'm not even a leaderboard ranker like you. 

grind is gonna keep increasing for them to keep the game stat show increase engagement in games. you didn't have such grind before because there was no cetus/fortuna/railjack

before, so no fishing/mining/RJholokeys to increase grind back then. if the game stayed the same, then it would have actions of "same things.. give us something new". which do happens even now but then they cry how new thing is grindy

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For anybody who's having trouble with the Waverider Quest, I had too, when using the standard Bondi K-Drive (I never used K-Drive much before).

Since doing the Quest I was accumulating VentKids' points anyway, I did build a modular K-Drive and -oh boy - it made completing the Quest a lot easier! (especially with some mods added: it goes faster, it jumps higher and gives your more time for tricks, etc.).

So, if you struggle with some Quest's challenge, I advise to build your own K-Drive: it may help a lot.

Honestly, I'm amazed the Quest itself doesn't suggest you to get your own K-Drive (but we know DE sucks at explaining the game to players... ;-).

 

If you don't care about K-Drives at all, but you still want to finish the Quest, instead of building your own K-Drive you can buy it (Ventkids' "Today Special"): the price varies between 60 and 30 Plat (way less than Yareli's full price). It's randomly assembled but, since the differences are just cosmetic (stats are always the same), it doesn't matter.

Then you install on it some of the basic K-Drive mods: the ones from Rank 1 (Glinty) should be enough, and you're good to go :-)

Edited by Pulsar63
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On 2021-07-25 at 5:09 AM, Dauggie said:

your grindy didn't register feels more like you didn't perform it enough to get 50 points, only then it will count. i completed that quest in 1 hour or so, even less and i'm not even a leaderboard ranker like you. 

grind is gonna keep increasing for them to keep the game stat show increase engagement in games. you didn't have such grind before because there was no cetus/fortuna/railjack

before, so no fishing/mining/RJholokeys to increase grind back then. if the game stayed the same, then it would have actions of "same things.. give us something new". which do happens even now but then they cry how new thing is grindy

I have the trick multiplier mod on my board, I was getting 3x the required amount it just straight up wouldn't register the trick over half the time.  It did the same thing on some of the other tricks but not all of them.  Same controller input, same animations, more than enough points, didn't count.  It's because Kdrives are unfinished trash, it has nothing to do with my ability to play.  Getting the required points for a trick chain, race points, all those things were completed on the first try.  It's buggy.  It's astounding to me that people can play this game, know that it's insanely buggy and then when someone says "This didn't work because it's buggy." they instantly assume it must be because the player is bad and needs to "git gud" and not because of the massive amount of bugs.

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Simple fix for this would be "storms" or something that render the arch wings inoperable. This would force people to use the K drives to get around the open worlds. Also, upgrade the k drives like arch wings, speed boots, handling boosts, offensive and defense mods. Could be cool if they finished it.
Also, fixed mission types that force you to get on the k drive would also be nice. so far, its an option that you do not need to do.

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On 2021-08-02 at 2:59 AM, SoulCancer86 said:

Simple fix for this would be "storms" or something that render the arch wings inoperable. This would force people to use the K drives to get around the open worlds. Also, upgrade the k drives like arch wings, speed boots, handling boosts, offensive and defense mods. Could be cool if they finished it.
Also, fixed mission types that force you to get on the k drive would also be nice. so far, its an option that you do not need to do.

I don't think forcing people to use inferior options is a way to make inferior options viable, but that's just me.

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On 2021-08-02 at 7:59 AM, SoulCancer86 said:

This would force people to use the K drives to get around the open worlds.

No, it wouldn't. I'd just use small child mode dash. Faster, with vertical traversal and no artificially added instability.

Or mechs in boost mode, because that's about as fast and has a gigantic cannon to shoot things with.

Or if that fails, bullet jumping. Which is faster and leaves me with each and every one of my weapons and powers if needed.

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I think Waverider was interesting enough.  Tough, yes, because I, like many others, hadn't invested much in K-Drives yet...

...but, in fact, it actually makes for a solid "Intro to K-Drives" tutorial quest for newer players.

I propose that DE INCREASE the required MR to unlock Archwing Launchers, and instead give K-Drives more time to shine as the first upgrade to Open World vehicles.  That way it goes "Regular Frames > K-Drive > Archwing", and each has their time to shine.  There's a sense of progression, going from walking, to running, to flying.

And ya get a frame and solid MR out of it.  Win-Win.

It hits those of us who've been around longer a bit harder right now because we are past that point, and thus don't see the same "need" for it as those newer to the game might see.

But the game is bigger than just us, ya know?

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16 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

No, it wouldn't. I'd just use small child mode dash. Faster, with vertical traversal and no artificially added instability.

Or mechs in boost mode, because that's about as fast and has a gigantic cannon to shoot things with.

Or if that fails, bullet jumping. Which is faster and leaves me with each and every one of my weapons and powers if needed.

Not every Tenno who hops into the Orb Vallis will have passed The War Within yet, much less unlocked Necramechs.  

It's a solid, and somewhat interesting, way for a newer, less equipped Tenno to get around for a bit.  

Not everything is about "The Best".

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On 2021-08-02 at 8:59 AM, SoulCancer86 said:

Simple fix for this would be "storms" or something that render the arch wings inoperable. This would force people to use the K drives to get around the open worlds.

So, if I have to go from one side of Orb Vallis to the opposite side, I MUST travel with a K-Drive...?

I might as well just stop playing! :-)

Honestly, it's a terrible idea.

 

A better one would be creating some events (races, combat or a mix of the two) that needs you to use a K-Drive, with increasing rewards (hence if you suck, you still get something).

This way players would be enticed to use and improve with K-Drives (even building their own and modding it), because of the rewards, but still NOT forced to do it. It would be their choice.

At the moment, VentKids rewards are not much interesting - unless you're into K-Drives. DE could simply add some new rewards to their faction.

Edited by Pulsar63
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On 2021-08-05 at 4:37 AM, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I think Waverider was interesting enough.  Tough, yes, because I, like many others, hadn't invested much in K-Drives yet...

...but, in fact, it actually makes for a solid "Intro to K-Drives" tutorial quest for newer players.

I propose that DE INCREASE the required MR to unlock Archwing Launchers, and instead give K-Drives more time to shine as the first upgrade to Open World vehicles.  That way it goes "Regular Frames > K-Drive > Archwing", and each has their time to shine.  There's a sense of progression, going from walking, to running, to flying.

And ya get a frame and solid MR out of it.  Win-Win.

It hits those of us who've been around longer a bit harder right now because we are past that point, and thus don't see the same "need" for it as those newer to the game might see.

But the game is bigger than just us, ya know?

The questline itself as far as the story is concerned wasn't that bad.  Not great, not awful, kind of neat, and as always had fantastic art.  My complaint was glitchiness and boring mechanics.  I HAD invested a good bit into Kdrive before this was released.  I collected all the mods and had a tricked out board that looked the way I wanted it, though not named because they don't let you name them without plat anymore. 

I've said this many times before, but my main complaint about Kdrives and why I despise them isn't that they aren't fun.  It's that they're fun until that artificial instability, poor physics and collision detection suck all the fun right out of it.  They're unfinished and that makes them trash to me.  The quest wasn't hard and didn't take me very long, but like Kdrives themselves was still frustrating because of how many times things didn't work how they were supposed to.  Same trick, same animation, same controller input, didn't count several tricks multiple times.  Yet I could clear the point req on races in a single pass with ease for each page.  I'm sure I just need to git gud and it's not bugs in bugframe though lol.

I wouldn't want an MR increase on archwings because I firmly believe that you cannot make something good by making something else worse.  They honestly just need to finish them and polish them up.  

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On 2021-08-06 at 6:28 PM, Pulsar63 said:

So, if I have to go from one side of Orb Vallis to the opposite side, I MUST travel with a K-Drive...?

I might as well just stop playing! :-)

Honestly, it's a terrible idea.

 

A better one would be creating some events (races, combat or a mix of the two) that needs you to use a K-Drive, with increasing rewards (hence if you suck, you still get something).

This way players would be enticed to use and improve with K-Drives (even building their own and modding it), because of the rewards, but still NOT forced to do it. It would be their choice.

At the moment, VentKids rewards are not much interesting - unless you're into K-Drives. DE could simply add some new rewards to their faction.

When DE DID add something more that needed VentKids (Yareli), they got people complaining left and right that "They locked progression behind a faction no one wants/likes!  HOW DARE THEY DO THIS!?"  The forums are LITTERED with such complaints.

Personally, I found those complaints juvenile, but when you're running a company that RELIES on investors to support your business model... You can't just let public outcry go without address.  


Honestly, using K-Drives more isn't a terrible idea at all...  I personally think they should raise the MR requirement of Archwing Launchers, and use Yareli's quest as a sort of bonus "tutorial".  It does a solid job at teaching new tricks and ways to earn Standing/level a K-Drive.   Let the K-Drive live for a few levels as the only vehicle to use for speedy transportation.... and then they can upgrade to Archwing later on.  Gives K-Drives somewhere to "belong". 

Also, there ARE "events" for K-Drives.  Races exist. Yareli's quest exists.  Sure, they could offer more, but... if you have limited funds, and you have to CHOOSE whether to put a valuable portion of your dev team on creating NEW CONTENT for a system that has SO MUCH NEGATIVE BACKLASH from your community... would you spend the money on it?  Or would you push for more productive, well-received updates instead?   (rhetorical question.  You do the latter).

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23 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The questline itself as far as the story is concerned wasn't that bad.  Not great, not awful, kind of neat, and as always had fantastic art.  My complaint was glitchiness and boring mechanics.  I HAD invested a good bit into Kdrive before this was released.  I collected all the mods and had a tricked out board that looked the way I wanted it, though not named because they don't let you name them without plat anymore. 

I've said this many times before, but my main complaint about Kdrives and why I despise them isn't that they aren't fun.  It's that they're fun until that artificial instability, poor physics and collision detection suck all the fun right out of it.  They're unfinished and that makes them trash to me.  The quest wasn't hard and didn't take me very long, but like Kdrives themselves was still frustrating because of how many times things didn't work how they were supposed to.  Same trick, same animation, same controller input, didn't count several tricks multiple times.  Yet I could clear the point req on races in a single pass with ease for each page.  I'm sure I just need to git gud and it's not bugs in bugframe though lol.

I wouldn't want an MR increase on archwings because I firmly believe that you cannot make something good by making something else worse.  They honestly just need to finish them and polish them up.  

Not being the "best" doesn't make something objective "trash", though.  That's a false dichotomy.  There's a wide range of quality between "best" and "trash". js

There's no denying they need some polish, but as I said in another comment... time and money are limited, staffing is limited...  As DE, with limited resources, they choose constantly between upgrading systems they WANT to work, systems that have public support and they KNOW will be a positive ROI, and systems that have a NEGATIVE public response (however undeserved), and that tell them it'd be a waste of limited resources... best ignored or put off until they've accomplished bigger tasks.

DE is, at the end of the day, a business.  It can't always do what everyone wants or likes.  It does what keeps the lights on, and keeps their devs employed.  Fine-Tuning K-Drives might be on that list, but I'd assume it's been relegated to "good enough" after people such as those on these forums tearing it a new one in response to Yareli and her questline.

Also, wouldn't be making Archwings "worse".  It'd be delaying the use of AW Launchers, only.  You still have space missions with AW early on, you still have RJ... just using them on the planet would be put off until a bit higher MR to give K-Drive room to breathe as a point of "progression".  Otherwise, why skate when you can fly?  That'd be the obvious issue.

 

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I found the quest to be a pretty good tutorial for k drives. I had ignored them before the quest, but now I think they are fun. No way I’m grinding for vent kids standing on purpose, but I’ll do races and tricks just because it’s fun to do. I bought a k drive for 33 plat. It’s an acceptable way to get players to spend plat - the price is very fair.

Some of the tricks were buggy in that they didn’t register points unless I started a combo with something else first. But that didn’t really matter.

 My biggest problem with k drives is that the buttons do different things than normal parkour. So if I think, I want to extend my jump a little bit, I have to use a different button combination than when I'm trying to do the same thing in parkour. So it fails on functionality. Maybe I just need to rebind the controls.

Edited by dudefaceguy
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