Jump to content

Was it really necessary to force Liches into Railjack?


(PSN)Krikenemp

Recommended Posts

Just making this post half an hour into waiting for a party member to figure out how to board the galleon so I can fight my lich. All these changes to "make the Lich process faster"? I could have killed a second one and maybe a third in the time it's taken me to catch up my railjack and wait for other people to figure out how all these needlessly complicated and undocumented mechanics work. It feels really bad having to do all this extra stuff to access content that I already had access to before, in addition to this additional step being highly unintuitive. I don't care that it connects Railjack to other game content, I can't even DO the content at this point.

This singular change is nothing but disruptive to the lich process and extremely frustrating. Please take this into consideration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's not the games fault if you waited until the last minute.

What are you talking about?

That wouldn't change the fact that I've been in this mission for 45 minutes now waiting for one person to figure out how to board. Or that it feels like killing liches takes significantly longer now, when it's supposed to be faster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Krikenemp said:

What are you talking about?

That wouldn't change the fact that I've been in this mission for 45 minutes now waiting for one person to figure out how to board.

"could have killed a second one and maybe a third in the time it's taken me to catch up my railjack and wait for..."

Just in case you forgot what you said.

Try a lich solo or try recruit chat. That's normal procedure for an experienced player, which this new content is for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"could have killed a second one and maybe a third in the time it's taken me to catch up my railjack and wait for..."

Just in case you forgot what you said.

Thanks, now try reading everything else in my post, and then maybe give some thought to a helpful response. Why so much hostility to well-meaning criticism of the game based on poor player experience? Is this how you "help" frustrated community members?

I haven't seen anyone doing anything lich-related in recruit besides murmur farm all weekend. I spent a lot of time getting "no available squads" today trying to join randoms. Want to invite me right now and show me how easy and quick it is, or are you just here to sass?

38 minutes ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

I like the new Kuva Lich Rj mission.

Seems like the problem you had was playing with Randoms 

That's my point, I didn't HAVE to rely on randoms figuring out how to do this stuff before. 1. It wasn't hard to figure out how to even get to your lich, 2. I could kill them solo pretty easily, which it seems like you can't do with Railjack because of how it's inherently designed for group play. This change seems like an attempt to connect Railjack to other content but if it's going to drag down said content, I'd rather it stay disconnected. It already mixes in archwing and normal mission tilesets. The minuscule murmur reduction does not make up for this unneeded step when we could just kill them after getting all the murmurs.

FYI, we had to tell the random to leave the party so we could finish because they just couldn't figure it out. I really wanted to help them join us but we already spent a long time talking them through and dropping waypoints. I'm just saying this seems a little unnecessary if they actually want to streamline the lich hunting process. I don't see how it being merely a cosmetic change for players who don't struggle with it offsets the additional struggle it adds for others. It also feels bad to have access to previously available content revoked when it's not for balancing purposes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's a good question. i don't know either.

the Railjack part isn't even unique, different, or otherwise interesting in any way. since it isn't, it feels pointless.
if it was unique or different, then it would be more okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... Liches in a Railjack mission was shown in the Tennocon...

... People asked to have whatever happened in Tennocon properly delivered as such....

... DE tied the final battle against Liches into Railjack missions...

... People did not like having whatever happened in Tennocon properly delivered as such...

 

... Seriously. Just accept it as it is, its less stressful that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just do the showdown missions for the liches solo, I am not sure why people feel the need to use a group. I am a total RJ noob still, only started doing RJ when the crew members came out cause I didn't wanna group it even though I PUG almost everything else. And guess what? My command intrinisics are only rank 5 across the board, I think I got one up to rank 6, I barely qualify to go to the lich proxima nodes for my showdown missions. 

My RJ has been forma'd once (the plexus thing) and isn't even at max level right now. My mod collection for it is weak. 

I barely know what I am doing and my crew is not yet fully optimized, and yet apart from probably being slower than a lot of more experience and better equipped RJ players, I still find the whole thing laughably easy to do on my own. So I honestly don't understand why people gotta go group up when RJ is such a pain to do with randoms in a group in the first place. Just use crew members instead, and save yourself a headache or two or three or five thousand. 

TL;DR: When going for a specific goal, in a mission with so many things prone to get messy with randoms, don't play with randoms, and you'll save yourself time and frustration. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's a good question. i don't know either.

the Railjack part isn't even unique, different, or otherwise interesting in any way. since it isn't, it feels pointless.
if it was unique or different, then it would be more okay.

Yes.

If it was 100% chance to spawn it in RJ (other spawns on random planets lower) when you have 3 mods & order THEN it would be fine. Now you just need another kill because someone wanted it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned, the Capital Ship fight for Liches was part of the initial concept as unveiled at the original Tennocon. This isn't something they shoehorned into Railjack recently just because. HOWEVER:

IMO, they should only get their Capital Ship battle if they reach rank 5, and you still haven't found the correct combo. And once they have their Capital Ship, it should always be there to fight at any time.

If you manage to get their combo prior to Rank 5, you've beat the system, good for you. No need to force the entire chain of events, because the Lich never gained enough rank/status/influence among the Grineer to get their Capital Ship prior to rank 5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

As mentioned, the Capital Ship fight for Liches was part of the initial concept as unveiled at the original Tennocon. This isn't something they shoehorned into Railjack recently just because. HOWEVER:

IMO, they should only get their Capital Ship battle if they reach rank 5, and you still haven't found the correct combo. And once they have their Capital Ship, it should always be there to fight at any time.

If you manage to get their combo prior to Rank 5, you've beat the system, good for you. No need to force the entire chain of events, because the Lich never gained enough rank/status/influence among the Grineer to get their Capital Ship prior to rank 5.

Agreed. I mean how stupid it felt that time when I actually lucked out into having a Rank 1 Lich and Rank 1 Sister killed on the same day, yet still I had to do the RJ final showdown both times... I mean, Vala talks about promotion every time you get the requiem mods wrong on a sister - what kind of promotion?! They seem to be at the top from rank 1! DO they get better sandwiches at the Corpus cantine?! Oh, and btw - that time I had a rank 1 Sister kill - I also had to kill the specters before fighting the sister, so not even that is tied to rank...

Edit: Holy *Clem*, I just remembered that Steeve mentioned on TennoCon 2019 that the Lich Reb was facing "has grown so powerful that it has it's own capital ship now". Doesn't that imply that they are supposed to eventually get there, as opposed to having ships right away?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Players when RJ comes out: Railjack is too detached from the game! we don't cneed another game-mode that doesn't bring us anything!

 

Players when DE tries to merge the modes: Nooooo! it's too much! 

It's almost like players are not a collective hive-mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Players when RJ comes out: Railjack is too detached from the game! we don't cneed another game-mode that doesn't bring us anything!

 

Players when DE tries to merge the modes: Nooooo! it's too much! 

Not everyone likes RJ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, quxier said:

Not everyone likes RJ.

Can't wait to see these people whine about it when TNW comes out and discover how RJ intensive the quest will be. lol

i can already see it...

"it's too hard" 

"They shred my RJ!"

"RJ bad!" 

better to get ready with the popcorn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

It's a check on their list of "2019 not yet delivered promises". 

Many of which are things that they rightfully cut in the first place, mind you. Sometimes people demand things that shouldn't have been cut, which is one thing. Other times, people ask for cut content that, in reality, they'll never use or like.

Like did you know you can hack turrets and doors now just like the 2018 demo? And of course, the Lich system wasn't as described... but as described it'd take you a month or two of grind to grab a Lich's weapon. And of course, if the whole group can adjust the railjack's performance on the fly, that's going to lead to arguments and/or wanton trolling when somebody decides to turn off everyone's guns in the middle of a firefight for the lulz.

 

Like DE are for sure not perfect, especially about delivering content, but sometimes the content they show off looks a lot cooler than it'd actually be to play. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Can't wait to see these people whine about it when TNW comes out and discover how RJ intensive the quest will be. lol

i can already see it...

"it's too hard" 

"They shred my RJ!"

"RJ bad!" 

better to get ready with the popcorn.

Some last updates have heavily focus on "boring stuffs": RJ, mechs. New war trailer shown us very slow gameplay. Corpus might be interesting to play but Gineer was like another game. Tenshin is the only one that "resembles" frames.

If this is how they want game look then... some of use won't play it anymore. We might be in minority.

 

42 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Like DE are for sure not perfect, especially about delivering content, but sometimes the content they show off looks a lot cooler than it'd actually be to play. 

This describes my experience with RJ. I've seen people "wowing" at some tennocon or something but I've seen it as very boring thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, quxier said:

This describes my experience with RJ. I've seen people "wowing" at some tennocon or something but I've seen it as very boring thing.

My honest opinion?

The Railjack we have is more fully featured than what was shown off at Tennocon, and substantially more exciting to play. When you look at a lot of the 'wow' moments that people had, they were things like 'Wow you can fire a laser at the ship to blow it up' which, fair, that part of Volatile is fun. But things like hacking from the ship is just a friendship door, 'fish squad' would mean waiting around for someone else to maybe do a thing on the plains or venus or something.

 

Railjack's biggest concern is the lack of RAILJACK. It feels like for every step forward, DE takes one step back. Like, Corpus Railjack. The objectives are mostly of the mobile defence sort, but the traditional defences have short timers and something happens with each one - with the Freightlinkers you're blowing it up one car at a time behind you, with the overshields you're detaching segments of the station underneath. If you mess up and don't get out, you get ejected into space, into your archwing. That's so rad! I'd love to see a more fleshed-out version of that same concept, maybe using the fact you get ejected to make the Grineer's point of interest loop more fun (since you wouldn't need to run back to the door if you're solo, just jump out the station in real time). 

But that's, like. Five minutes of the mission. And then there's no interaction with the Railjack. And sometimes you get a mostly-kinetic mission type like Volatile, sure. But Railjack hasn't evolved from what was shown off at Tennocon. And quite frankly, what was shown off at both Tennocons was a very basic form of a far more interesting concept.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

The Railjack we have is more fully featured than what was shown off at Tennocon, and substantially more exciting to play.

Maybe it's more exciting but it's still worse than normal mission. IMHO even worse than archwing.

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Railjack's biggest concern is the lack of RAILJACK.

IMHO, they should just put few RJ missions that consist ONLY of RJ. Cool space fights and things like this. They could even (spoiler for some) make RJ assasination from that infested ship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, quxier said:

Maybe it's more exciting but it's still worse than normal mission. IMHO even worse than archwing.

I want to make something clear - there's a difference between what I consider Railjack to be conceptually and what it is.

 

Conceptually, Railjack is... well it's silent cartographer from Halo. It's battlefront 2 (the old one). It's Titanfall 2. It's this rarely-done genuine blend of vehicle combat and ground combat that manages to facilitate so many possible gameplay opportunities, more than anything Warframe's standard loop could on its own. Because it's not just the space aspect, and I think that's why DE changed the name of the update to 'Empyrean'. The Railjack is only part of the process. It's why Archwing doesn't work properly either - DE didn't stick the landing with it being a part of the game.

But that's what it could be. Railjack as it currently exists is separate, divided on a far more fundamental level than just not having as much stuff to do as the rest of the game. Adding in void fissures (through void storms) doesn't change the fact that, of Railjack's three main updates (Empyrean, Scarlet Spear, Call of the Tempestarii) only one has even tried to make whole missions that consist of jumping around between objectives. None of them have had the Railjack have any objectives or interactions past simple 'shoot a targets' and Scarlet Spear's 'hide the railjack' exploit was so important because otherwise the player who had to stay on board had nothing to do except dodge countless poorly-scaled enemies and the mission would take longer to boot. With how missions are designed, the Railjack typically serves as more of a burden.

 

Whereas conceptually the Railjack offers so many possibilities, how it's been used has only seemed to limit them. For pete's sake it's a spaceship that enemies and players can boath board in real time, and there are mission objectives players can fly in and out of in real time. There's so many cool gameplay possibilities that space provides!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Conceptually, Railjack is... well it's silent cartographer from Halo. It's battlefront 2 (the old one). It's Titanfall 2. It's this rarely-done genuine blend of vehicle combat and ground combat that manages to facilitate so many possible gameplay opportunities, more than anything Warframe's standard loop could on its own.

I don't know what you are talking about. I've checked Halo & T2 but I see just a shooter.

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Whereas conceptually the Railjack offers so many possibilities, how it's been used has only seemed to limit them. For pete's sake it's a spaceship that enemies and players can boath board in real time, and there are mission objectives players can fly in and out of in real time. There's so many cool gameplay possibilities that space provides!

So boarding a ship... that's like Pirate game. Completely different game... and it's... sorry... boring.

I'm not sure what are other possibilities that "could" work with current tech etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...