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Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?


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TL:DR  (so you can catch up without reading every posting)

The Kuva/Sisters weapons need 5 forma each to get to level 40
DE removed the formas from Plague Star when they moved it to the invested planet


Anytime they will add another weapon to the Kuva/Sisters system the chances that you roll this one weapon and can spawn it becomes lower and lower, while we need more and more forma (mechs and railjack just as another example).

Adding the 4 parts Ambassador drop in a C rotation of railjack survival is a big waste of time (if you ask me)
I wonder if the future weapons that are mainly there for older players to get more MR will become more and more grindy like this (same as before.... just lower dropchance with doing railjack first).

I enjoy the game, but i start to feel that they think that "make stuff take longer to get" = more content and i feel disrespected by this
I would bet that we will get Mech/Archgun arcanes from Railjack Orphix in the future, because nobody plays it... so they will create a grindy reason for us to play it

 

Why is this a problem?

We have:
19 Kuva weapons
8 Sister weapons
4 Weapons that you buy for holo keys
2 Mechs

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day and start to craft formas as it is... at it will get harder and harder.
This doesnt include the dojo weapons that also need 1 forma each, Forma for Warframe builds, basic weapons, the storyline weapons like the Paracesis and builds on Pets/sentinels.

And again: They removed the forma from the Plaque Star event... so please dont tell me that they know that they create a bottleneck here sp people buy forma with plat. This part doesnt effect old players that have lots of plat and forma saved up, but new players will need to spend plat on forma, because they are limited to building 1 forma per day. All this is going on while they work on a mobile client (and we all know how free microtransaction games on mobile work... "if you want to play.. just use some premium or wait till the timer is done". Before it was fair but i dont like where this is going. I have plat and forma saved up... but new players will buy or suffer. I think those changes have been made to drain the plat pool and make people spend more money to buy plat.

 

 

For me (as a player that deleted basic frames once he got the primes) I also started to get really mad once i noticed that i have to pay 100 000 standing to cephalon simaris if i want another chroma that i need for the helminth system. This doesnt effect anyone and YES i could "just do a 2 hour survival and scan those targets to get lots of standing" but this isnt the average player... i just feel that Warframe goes into the direction of "lets see how much plat we can get our players to spend to skip things, if we just make it annoying enoth".

 

----------------------

Original Post:
Hi,

I would like to ask you guys how you feel about some things in Warframe (mainly if you think that DE respects you and your time?), but let me first tell you where I'm at right now:

I started to play Warframe about 3 years ago and took a 1 year "break" where i just did the quests and non prime stuff.
With this update I farmed up and spend some plat on the things that didnt drop... now I only miss the the Ambassador, 2 holokey weapons and the new arcanes that are not the "melee kills give you primary damage".
I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).


I enjoy playing melee Oberon (phoenix helps to see if people are failing and if we should leave) in survival
I play Mesa on open worlds and in defence
I play a lot of Frost in defence and excavation

Waiting for Baruuk and hildryn prime
-------------

Lets talk about the "problems" that warframe has and why i feel unhappy even while having fun:  (i really wonder how people see it. please also tell us your MR so we see how much of the grind you've done. What didnt you do and why?)

 

RAILJACK:
Coming back i somehow like but also dislike the new Railjack system, because it's just "do the same stuff that you did since you started to play the game... but now you have to kill ships before you can do the normal mission AND if someone leaves it will mess things up.
The new survival, that people join and leave after 5 or 10 minutes, but you need to stay 20 for the rare Ambassador parts but if SOMEONE wants to leave the whole party has to leave, so you have to do it solo or buy the weapon for plat.

I changed some things about my builds and with 700 energy, arcane energize and with the "prothea mana bubble dispencer" from the helminth system.. the seekers come out well.
The problem that i noticed is that with the pilot and one person in the big gun... the other two almost never both do the 2 stations. If we have someone on the big gun... most of the time i solo both before the other 3 are even done with killing the ships.
I'm not bragging here i just want to give feedback here, because if the pilot and the gunner dont fire seekers even 3 people are super slow and to go "out and back in" to kill the radiators isnt fun and i think that's why most people dont want to do it and camp in the railjack.


LICHS:
I liked the new sisters and their weapons, but i got really mad once i ran out of those tokens to open the portals to get the last weapon that i needed. It does feel A LOT better than the Corpus Lichs, but i cant get over if you didnt pick up the tokens you will have problems in the future... and i'm sure they will release more weapons, so the chance that you will get the last needed weapon will get lower and lower. And i've seen people complaining about having to do 100+ runs for one Kuva weapon, so how do you feel about farming up those tokens if you dont need to do anything that would spawn the guy that drops them?
The big problem here is that people that are coming back have to play basic missions again to get the tokens... but new players dont, because they had the chance to pick them up while going from MR1-MR30.

Can someone people explain me why i:
1) need to farm something to open a portal
2) do a mission
3) have a spawn with a weaponchance
4) farm/get the symbols (that come from random drops from requiem relics)
5) fail over and over till you got the right symbols
6) to then go on a railjack mission to kill something
7) to then use 5 forma to level the item 5 times to reach level 40.

This isnt only a long text... that is what you do without thinking about it and in the end i couldnt do more than 2 lichs per day, because it sucked the life out of me.


The Forma "problem":
Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?
I was somehow lazy and didnt forma many things, so i have about 100 forma saved up, but i'm out of forma BPs and now i have to open relics just to farm them AND login every day to build them.
It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

 

Do you feel respected by DE here?
-Farming 5 forma BPs takes time
-Building them takes you about 5 days... and then you dont use the weapon anymore, because you level up the nextone
 

I guess we will get a lot more of those "level to 40" weapons in the future (because of the points that mods need) and you better make sure that you stock up on forma BPs and login every day to build them.

My problem isnt that i dont like playing Warframe: I had fun playing Frost on excavations today and i enjoy Jailjack with a good group.
The problem that i see is that i feel that DE doesnt want me to enjoy the game but to go and play "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater" while Youtubers start to leave the game and people say "they're burned out". You CAN play for free but i feel people dont delete their lvl40 weapons and primes, so lvl40 weapons = more plat spend on slots and the forma drain also brings money if people buy Forma OR you spend time farming Forma BPs and hope that a voidfisher/storm that you enjoy is up.

The bugged Arbi galvanized mods are nice...  i like the new arcanes, but what about:
-More base engergy, life, armor, base combo and other things if you skill your operator (will we ever get more operator skills?)
-Give me something that i can finally jump into those bubbles and ignore nullifiers. (please give us some tech like that in the new war. You cant use many frames without energy or their skills, so why is this a thing in lategame?)

 

In the 2 part Warframe doku (on youtube) Rebecca said "Warframe needs to update fast to stay relevant".
I hope that you watch the doku about your own game again and try to remember that "how to keep users logged in" doesnt equal fun in gameplay.


Oh... and one more thing:
I deleted frames like base Chroma once you released Chroma prime. The helminth system is nice, but why do i have to pay 100 000 stading to rebuy chroma or why do i have to refarm base Trinity if i mastered her 2 years ago? I farmed that stupid encounter 70-100 times (took me 2 months with 2-4 fights per day), because the systems didnt want to drop.... it was traumatizing and i dont want to do it again! The way you try to make me replay old stuff is what makes me feel that you dont respect your players time anymore (that was one of the points of "SkillUp". How can a prime part be more easy to get than a normal version? Just let me feed primes to helminth...

Once again: Just because you make me replay old stuff again to get usertime on steam.... doesnt mean that i enjoy the content. I really hope that the fight against the Sentients will come soon (2 more nightwaves i guess?!?)

Edited by WingR84
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It's a video game.

Made for ephemeral entertainment.

If a game is fun, I play it.

If a game is not fun, I don't play it.

Never, not once, has the idea popped into my head that a game maker needs to 'respect' me in anyway, I don't honestly understand why a person would think about such a thing.

If the game is fun, play it, if not, don't.

Corporations don't have feelings or outlooks, they are paper-based.

As for the developers as people, how on earth could they take the time to expend emotional output on each player?

The entire idea of a game, a collection of binary code and art, can 'respect' me as a person is just not something I see as rational.

If you don't get the dopamine hit you need in the way and time you need it form this game, go play another.

Edited by Zimzala
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I don't know. Sometimes I get angry, but I play another game called elder scrolls onliine and the combat team there just changes stuff all the time and don't even keep things along the same nature. An expensive damage item becomes a gain resource item. A pain in the butt to get cool hybrid set becomes a curse set. I realized stuff like that doesn't care about what players spent time on. So I guess it could be worse here.

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  • WingR84 changed the title to Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?
vor 23 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)C11H22O11:

If I didn't feel respected I guess I wouldn't be playing

But are you MR1 or Legendary 1?

There is a big difference between the grind when you still have many things to do and the time when DE says "ok... now you do a Hoverboard tutorial with a story that you cant skip" or when you deleted chroma 2 years ago and then they go like "ok, if you want that ability for the helminth system then you need 100 000 standing for cephalon simaris.

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29 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Hi,
I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).

L1 I found it easy, go try it, some of the earlier ones made me go hard to do them, you'll look like a MR 1 again though, I hear some players quit when they see the '1' in a pub game, so I guess they don't respect me. 🤣

I respect everyone, even if they don't deserve it. 🤔

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I don't need any respect from DE. And I consider the idea that because I choose to use my time to play Warframe DE should somehow be beholden to me and owe me things completely absurd. DE owes me nothing.

However, I've had a lot (actually a huge amount) of fun with Warframe without having to pay a cent, so if anyone owes someone something I feel that I'm the one that owes DE. Which also has made it a lot easier to occasionally buy stuff, I feel like I'm just paying a little back for everything that I've got (and getting some slots or cosmetics in the process).

Nothing of the above means I that I love everything about the game, or think that Warframe is perfect. I decidedly don't. But absolutely everything in Warframe is still free, and the need to max everything (which I also suffers from) is a problem on a personal level. If it is to be considered a problem at all.

Having to re-farm & build all the non-prime frames (yeah, I also sold them as soon as I got a prime version) was surprisingly more fun than I expected (I had almost forgotten some of the missions even existed). And putting all the warframes into the Helminth was, again, my own obsession, not DE's. Even so I did (and still do) think that DE handled the recent Helminth upgrade unfairly, by allowing some players to gather and use standing that other players are locked out from. Not a big thing, but basically unfair (which is surprising coming from DE).

I am currently chilling through Tenet weapons, using my own "special rules": unless I already have the weapon at 60% I am "forced" to select the candidate. The reason for this is simply "a lich/sister a day keeps the boredom away", and if I rushed through all the Tenets I would end up in a place I've been many times before: with nothing meaningful to do in Warframe.

Speaking of "meaningful", the only thing I think DE really messes up is the cap on the number of riven slots. Being maxed out on riven slots is the greatest inhibitor in Warframe for me, and I've now been at 181 for a couple of months (stupidly refusing to transmute/destroy another riven). Just allow one riven slot per maxed unique weapon in the player's arsenal and be done with it, as this would theoretically allow for tinkering with every bloody weapon in the game. If there is a need to stop whales stock-piling "hot" rivens, just set a weapon-type cap (max 3 or 5 for any specific weapon), not a dumb-ass, game-destroying "total cap". Still, I would not say this is DE "disrespecting" the time I've used to play Warframe, rather it is DE disrespecting my wish to use even more time to play Warframe (tinkering with rivens and weapons).

Edited by Graavarg
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Sure warframe has many problems but i keep playing because the pros outweigh the cons, i don't play often and try not to do everything on day 1 of any new update. like eating a wedding cake in one sitting and then suffering from constipation afterwards

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Gerade eben schrieb Slayer-.:

I respect everyone, even if they don't deserve it. 🤔

With all given respect.... the legendary1 test wasnt the point.... it's about where the grind is going. Now they do the same "locked behind something" systems again... but this time you have to do a railjack mission before you have to grind to wave C before you get the dropchance.

 

It's not harder... it just takes longer

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3 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Hi,

I would like to ask you guys how you feel about some things in Warframe (mainly if you think that DE respects you and your time?), but let me first tell you where I'm at right now:

I started to play Warframe about 3 years ago and took a 1 year "break" where i just did the quests and non prime stuff.
With this update I farmed up and spend some plat on the things that didnt drop... now I only miss the the Ambassador, 2 holokey weapons and the new arcanes that are not the "melee kills give you primary damage".
I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).


I enjoy playing melee Oberon (phoenix helps to see if people are failing and if we should leave) in survival
I play Mesa on open worlds and in defence
I play a lot of Frost in defence and excavation
Waiting for Baruuk and hildryn prime


-------------

Lets talk about the "problems" that warframe has and why i feel unhappy even while having fun:  (i really wonder how people see it. please also tell us your MR so we see how much of the grind you've done. What didnt you do and why?)

 

RAILJACK:
Coming back i somehow like but also dislike the new Railjack system, because it's just "do the same stuff that you did since you started to play the game... but now you have to kill ships before you can do the normal mission AND if someone leaves it will mess things up.
The new survival, that people join and leave after 5 or 10 minutes, but you need to stay 20 for the rare Ambassador parts but if SOMEONE wants to leave the whole party has to leave, so you have to do it solo or buy the weapon for plat.

I changed some things about my builds and with 700 energy, arcane energize and with the "prothea mana bubble dispencer" from the helminth system.. the seekers come out well.
The problem that i noticed is that with the pilot and one person in the big gun... the other two almost never both do the 2 stations. If we have someone on the big gun... most of the time i solo both before the other 3 are even done with killing the ships.
I'm not bragging here i just want to give feedback here, because if the pilot and the gunner dont fire seekers even 3 people are super slow and to go "out and back in" to kill the radiators isnt fun and i think that's why most people dont want to do it and camp in the railjack.


LICHS:
I liked the new sisters and their weapons, but i got really mad once i ran out of those tokens to open the portals to get the last weapon that i needed. It does feel A LOT better than the Corpus Lichs, but i cant get over if you didnt pick up the tokens you will have problems in the future... and i'm sure they will release more weapons, so the chance that you will get the last needed weapon will get lower and lower. And i've seen people complaining about having to do 100+ runs for one Kuva weapon, so how do you feel about farming up those tokens if you dont need to do anything that would spawn the guy that drops them?
The big problem here is that people that are coming back have to play basic missions again to get the tokens... but new players dont, because they had the chance to pick them up while going from MR1-MR30.

Can someone people explain me why i:
1) need to farm something to open a portal
2) do a mission
3) have a spawn with a weaponchance
4) farm/get the symbols (that come from random drops from requiem relics)
5) fail over and over till you got the right symbols
6) to then go on a railjack mission to kill something
7) to then use 5 forma to level the item 5 times to reach level 40.

This isnt only a long text... that is what you do without thinking about it and in the end i couldnt do more than 2 lichs per day, because it sucked the life out of me.


The Forma "problem":
Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?
I was somehow lazy and didnt forma many things, so i have about 100 forma saved up, but i'm out of forma BPs and now i have to open relics just to farm them AND login every day to build them.
It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

 

Do you feel respected by DE here?
-Farming 5 forma BPs takes time
-Building them takes you about 5 days... and then you dont use the weapon anymore, because you level up the nextone
 

I guess we will get a lot more of those "level to 40" weapons in the future (because of the points that mods need) and you better make sure that you stock up on forma BPs and login every day to build them.

My problem isnt that i dont like playing Warframe: I had fun playing Frost on excavations today and i enjoy Jailjack with a good group.
The problem that i see is that i feel that DE doesnt want me to enjoy the game but to go and play "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater" while Youtubers start to leave the game and people say "they're burned out". You CAN play for free but i feel people dont delete their lvl40 weapons and primes, so lvl40 weapons = more plat spend on slots and the forma drain also brings money if people buy Forma OR you spend time farming Forma BPs and hope that a voidfisher/storm that you enjoy is up.

The bugged Arbi galvanized mods are nice...  i like the new arcanes, but what about:
-More base engergy, life, armor, base combo and other things if you skill your operator (will we ever get more operator skills?)
-Give me something that i can finally jump into those bubbles and ignore nullifiers. (please give us some tech like that in the new war. You cant use many frames without energy or their skills, so why is this a thing in lategame?)

 

In the 2 part Warframe doku (on youtube) Rebecca said "Warframe needs to update fast to stay relevant".
I hope that you watch the doku about your own game again and try to remember that "how to keep users logged in" doesnt equal fun in gameplay.


Oh... and one more thing:
I deleted frames like base Chroma once you released Chroma prime. The helminth system is nice, but why do i have to pay 100 000 stading to rebuy chroma or why do i have to refarm base Trinity if i mastered her 2 years ago? I farmed that stupid encounter 70-100 times (took me 2 months with 2-4 fights per day), because the systems didnt want to drop.... it was traumatizing and i dont want to do it again! The way you try to make me replay old stuff is what makes me feel that you dont respect your players time anymore (that was one of the points of "SkillUp". How can a prime part be more easy to get than a normal version? Just let me feed primes to helminth...

Once again: Just because you make me replay old stuff again to get usertime on steam.... doesnt mean that i enjoy the content. I really hope that the fight against the Sentients will come soon (2 more nightwaves i guess?!?)

If people truly don't like the game or feel their time is respected, they wouldn't play the game. Unless they don't even respect themselves so they just keep playing whilst not feeling respected by DE, then we they just have a conundrum. 

 

I play the content I want, when I want, for as long as I am enjoying the game. It's just a fun way to kill free time for me, till other things interest me more or busy life takes over once again. 

 

 

Edited by (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK
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2 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

But are you MR1 or Legendary 1?

There is a big difference between the grind when you still have many things to do and the time when DE says "ok... now you do a Hoverboard tutorial with a story that you cant skip" or when you deleted chroma 2 years ago and then they go like "ok, if you want that ability for the helminth system then you need 100 000 standing for cephalon simaris.

Not the person you are responding to but:

I am LR1
And I don't really see a huge difference in the two.
I actually am a collector and had to farm up a second chroma to sacrifice to helminth so that I could keep my normal and prime variants...and it wasn't bad at all.
Simaris rep is an easy farm if you know how to do it quickly so it wasn't hard to do at all.  And in the end it was your choice to delete chroma.

And I don't mind the yareli quest that much.  Boring but not too bad.

 

In the end I don't think DE has to respect our time...but it does so anyways and not in that terrible of a manner either.
Could it be better? Definitely.
Is it horrible and they treat us horrible?  Not at all.
In the end this is a fun game to play and have fun with.  If you don't then that's on you really.

DE doesn't treat us horribly like some other games, and while they could do better its not like it would be a massive improvement so I don't see anything to whinge and cry about.

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42 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

please also tell us your MR so we see how much of the grind you've done. What didnt you do and why?)

reminds me of that pay to win MR30 who only have 700 hours in his playtime...

 

anyway, i 5000% agree with this guy:

38 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

If I didn't feel respected I guess I wouldn't be playing

people who keep playing even though they don't feel respected, doesn't have enough respect for themselves.

respect yourself and buy FFXIV.

 

or sekiro, breath of the wild, god of war, witcher 3, whatever floats your boat.

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5 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

With all given respect.... the legendary1 test wasnt the point.... it's about where the grind is going. Now they do the same "locked behind something" systems again... but this time you have to do a railjack mission before you have to grind to wave C before you get the dropchance.

 

It's not harder... it just takes longer

The Kuva Lich grind has blown out to more time because the murmurs are still slow to get, then you have to end fight them twice now.

The holokeys are just life zapping with that grind, other grinds you sort of get conditioned to them but some of the grinds lately are bordering on insanity.

Getting new weapons that need 5 Forma for MR seems to be an awesome business model by DE to get players who are in a hurry to buy more.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Soy77:

respect yourself and buy FFXIV.

 

or sekiro, breath of the wild, god of war, witcher 3, whatever floats your boat.

I sometimes play with Unreal Engine 4 and have fun with that. FF14 isnt for me... i enjoy parts of Warframe but i feel that DE wants to force me to play stuff like Hoverboardraces...

Or when they add something new to make me grind the same thing again, like Nightwave that made you play stuff that you dont need to get to the Umbra Forma.
I can tell you... i would pref to do Mot survivals or some excavations.... but i really dont want to go after the profit taker or do 5 missions on one of the open worlds... or farm stuff so i can kill the grove guy that MAYBE drops a mod that looks nice but hat zero use, because other stuff is 10x better.

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So, to answer your question, I do feel validated as a player, more so than by many, many other developers. 

Yes, you do have a point, some grind is very excessive and especially Forma and affinity have always been kind of a problem child and very much worth their own discussion.
Thing is, DE makes a LOT of profit with boosters, Forma and catalysts and I can very much understand that, despite a lot of demand by the community, they are not going to change this. Warframe is Free 2 Play after all and unlike other games you can somewhat earn the special currency at a somewhat decent pace. 

Finally, the main gameplay loop is just very fun and the art team did a beautiful job, that it rarely feels super tedious.

Yes, I think DE very much values our time, even though quite a few things are left to discussion and to improve, but most of the time we complain, it's because we want Warframe to become the best game it can be, because DE consists of some of most decent people in the industry, and if they not deserve to have a close to perfect game, I think almost no one has.

Edited by (PSN)c1234567890alvi
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1 час назад, WingR84 сказал:

I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).

is there a connection i am missing?

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1 hour ago, WingR84 said:

DE respects you and your time?

Yes.

The only place where I feel the time investment is off is for the lich/sister weapons. It is just bad design the way it is set up and has been so since liches were released. I'm not sure how many larvlings I've killed currently to try and get a second Kuva Zarr to upgrade my current one. It wouldnt be so bad if the content you grind to get the right weapon wasnt so trivial and boring at this point.

I would be fine with a longer lich/sister encounter once they are spawned and a far shorter system to spawn the actual weapon we want. Since the lich/sister part is far more interesting than running capture over and over.

Also: Their love for 5 forma things isnt so much for you to get "max mastery" from the item, it is to get a bonus to your item, an extra 2 levels per forma for more capacity. You dont need to take the item to 40 for mastery, since the normal mastery "max" is still achieved at 30, the rest is just bonus mastery. It isnt like pets where you need to level them twice in order to be able to master them and get the actual mastery points.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb (PSN)c1234567890alvi:

Yes, I think DE very much values our time, even though quite a few things are left to discussion and to improve, but most of the time we complain, it's because we want Warframe to become the best game it can be, because DE consists of some of most decent people in the industry, and if they not deserve to have a close to perfect game, I think almost no one has.

You almost got my point... but then drifted away.

 

They make money with the boosters and the slots, but not with the keys i need for the portal that lets me spawn the sister lich..... that is just wasted time, just like the whole "lets add railjack infront of the missions that we had for years.... and then do the same thing".

The Ambassador is locked behind drops on wave C of survival... but this time you also have to do railjack

This "new" gameplay is just an extra waste of time added ontop.
Adding new Kuva weapons just mean that you chance for THAT ONE WEAPON that you need will get lower and lower with every new release... and in case of pavos this means that you need to farm those portal keys and this means that you have to run missions on Corpus Ships to get those.

 

 

It's not about beeing "free 2 play" (Warframe totally is F2P) but the grind to unlock new things gets more and more crazy and THAT is my point here...
And in case of forma it might become so hard that you will not be able to save up enoth forma before the releases so that you will have to buy forma.

this wouldnt make it pay2win (because it's PvE and you cant "win" in PvE) but we would than be at the point where you cant keep up without plat AND THEN the system would change, because we would have a "plat sink" if the demand for plat would become higher and higher while the demand for prime stuff would go down

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The one thing that makes me want to play Warframe over other games is DEs involvement with their gaming community. Yes, sometimes they listen to the community and sometimes they don't, but compared to other game makers they are miles ahead in community engagement.

The regular streams, the developments updates, the constant 'freebie drops' - whether that is through livestreams, prime gaming (which I don't have) or in-game alerts - all contribute to a game where i feel like the developers give a damn about the person playing it.

I will agree that some of the late game content is now hidden behind massive time investment and the gods of RNG. It's annoying, but I'll slowly work my way through the content in the limited time I have. If it gets too much, I'll buy stuff for platinum like I already have. For context here, I'm a free-to-play player but I've built up a good reserve of platinum through farming and trading prime parts/sets over the 3 years I've been playing.

I hear your comments about having to re-farm all the frames for the Helminth system. Like you, I sell off the normal frame/weapon when I get the primed version. But it didn't take me very long (about a month I think) to farm almost all of the normal frames a second time. Some of that was luck (Harrow, Ivara) and some was persistence (Wisp). I think I have just Grendel and Trinity left now - the Trinity fight I'll attempt every once in a while and at some point the missing part will drop.

I did take a two month break when I got bored of the game and I highly recommend doing the same if the game is frustrating you.  Wait for the next major update, or even the one after, then come back and take another look.

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Kel_Silonius:

is there a connection i am missing?

The arcanes that prog from primary kills (Primary Merciless - 5 or 7p) are more expensive than the once that up your primary damage after melee kills (Primary Dexterity- 1 or 2p).
You cant do melee in the Legendary1 test so you need the more expensive once to up your damage with those new arcanes in this test.

People farm those for Steel anyway so the prices should go down... soon you should get all the arcanes for 1p, because people want the Steel to buy Kuva

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Yes and no.

I understand the necessity of grinding and play time in order to retain players for longer periods. I generally enjoy my play time, else I would have quit long ago.

The problems are in some outlier weapons and items that take unreasonable amounts of time for what it's worth. The latest example would be the Ambassador rifle, which requires rotation C in a specific railjack survival. Other examples would be Braton Vandal in wave 8 of ESO and the infamous 8 piece Equinox drops from Tyl Regor. The first two have extremely low chances in a drawn out mission type. Getting that last equinox day part after 70+ runs felt ludicrous compared to simpler 3-4 piece frame farms.

I'll also mention the Tenet melee that only rotate after several days. This week, 2 out of 4 are at 25% element bonus, which is the lowest possible. I might have to farm out several copies in order to just hit a 60% bonus. Getting 40 holokeys is enough of a chore as it is.

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