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Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?


WingR84

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Quite literally every other game I've played that has anything remotely similar to Warframe be it an MMO, Diablo clone, or even something like Borderlands have all respected my time LESS than Warframe has.

Seriously the level of grind we have is nothing compared to what most, if not all, grind games offer. And never have I even heard of one where the items you get remain, or can be forced to be, relevant long into the game's life/late-game. Everything else either gets things powercreeped alongside content to the point that your previous hours of investment are no longer relevant or you're constantly getting stop-gap gear that serves no point other than getting to the next set of gear.

 

None of that is to say that those games are bad or that Warframe is perfect (there are many issues in WF's progression causes by this after all). But as far as "respecting" previous time investments Warframe is in it's entirely own league to anything I've experienced close to this genre. 

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Respect is not required, respect is gradually earned.

I can't relate respect to a certain player(s) because technically the DE doesn't have time to hear all the voices everywhere.
The DE can respect rules and directives attached to most players as this is a public community and everything that is public cannot be binding in between.

Edit: I can hear you, nice topic guy

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I feel like they try to respect our time but may have overlooked certain things that lead to frustration. I don't necessarily think they're doing anything wrong in this regard because sometimes ideas with the best intentions don't go as planned. Especially when you're dealing with millions of players with differing playstyle and opinions. 

A lot of players burn through content really quickly and then haven't got much to do and I do really feel like they've been trying to address that. So in that regard I can definitely say they're trying to respect our time in some sense so that we have content to play for longer.I honestly think they're almost there in giving us meaningful content that has solid replayability with reasonable time to complete.

There are some areas I think need attention, for example the kuva weapon pool being too large and corrupted key grind being a bit too grindy. But, as a whole I think Warframes in a pretty good state right now and is getting better as it goes (hiccups aside). 

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Less and less as time goes on and they continue to push the boundaries of what is acceptable time waste in their game. The ambassador, for example, is not respectful in the slightest, and to me is a a ridiculous amount of grind on a table with no worthwhile rewards other then the ambassador itself.

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I never understood people demanding respect from games specifically designed to waste time.

I learn though and done feeling cheated with terrible grinds so I deal with it and RNG by playing the market and rid myself of artificial difficulty. Just play smart, have fun and amass platinum always

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Even if DE owes us nothing and we simply feel obligated to respect, I think it is important how the relationship (or rather the perception of the relationship) is established.

Imagine you are conducting a business transaction in Star Trek. You are dealing with:

  • a Ferengi, your first opinion is "of course they're going to try to rip me off" and you start with a set expectation of that. Or
  • a Vulkan, you first think "Vulkans can't lie! This is going to be an honest transaction" and you relax your guard.

Of course the idea is completely racist. Vulkans have the potential capability to be just as or even more cunning merchants than any Ferengi.

So you get ripped off by both merchants. Which one hurt your pride more?

superman running GIF

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Yes, your time investment is respected better in warframe compared to another games with power/level. You reached the power to take hits from gods and just scoff it out like it's nothing and able to slay gods/giants in one shot in warframe? It will stay that way unless DE buffs the boss or nerf the power instead of being obsolete after a few months just because the power/level cap is increased on the next content addition. Also, no randomness with rarity/tier/star/quality/etc so you get one weapon, that's it, no more hamster wheel grinding just to get that Outstanding Tier 5 Legendary 5 star gear and poof, your item is useless when the new level cap introduced. Back to grinding again

Now

10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

i got really mad once i ran out of those tokens to open the portals to get the last weapon that i needed. It does feel A LOT better than the Corpus Lichs, but i cant get over if you didnt pick up the tokens you will have problems in the future... and i'm sure they will release more weapons, so the chance that you will get the last needed weapon will get lower and lower. And i've seen people complaining about having to do 100+ runs for one Kuva weapon, so how do you feel about farming up those tokens if you dont need to do anything that would spawn the guy that drops them?

Pretty sure you can simply run a mission on Pluto for a guaranteed Zenith Granum Crown every run so you can rinse and repeat without worrying to run out of tokens. Also, when you do sister mission, the base level is higher than Pluto so a treasurer holding a Zenith Granum Crown is guaranteed. You would have more than needed by running those sister missions and killing every single treasurer appearing

10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

i couldnt do more than 2 lichs per day, because it sucked the life out of me.

Maybe because it's not supposed to be grinded out in a day or two? Sometimes I'm questioning the mental state of those who to the point of grinding more than 5 liches/sisters a day. Take it easy, the lich/sister doesn't have to die in one day after they rise

10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?
I was somehow lazy and didnt forma many things, so i have about 100 forma saved up, but i'm out of forma BPs and now i have to open relics just to farm them AND login every day to build them.
It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

You don't have to login to build them, we have warframe app to build and claim from your phone. Pushing steam numbers? You haven't seen other games that push steam numbers harder with massive grind of layers of RNG, RNG based power progression, and worse, limiting how much you can get a week/day so come back tomorrow to grind again

10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

i feel that DE doesnt want me to enjoy the game but to go and play "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater"

You don't have to play that "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater", with the consequence of not able to obtain Yareli BP and Kompressa without buying. Two items wouldn't kill you, right? And you can trade for platinum to get around it if you don't enjoy but let me tell you one thing : K-Drive is pretty fun and easy to grind standing through a little practice on the pipe behind the elevator or that one ring area where you can slide on the ring

10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Give me something that i can finally jump into those bubbles and ignore nullifiers.

You know, you can shoot them from distance or permanently disable it by shooting the drone before jumping in to hack them or take the risk and lose your ability for a split second before you hack the nullifier to pieces. Also, I believe we have those people that need to be stripped away from their power as "challenge" and "difficulty" so I don't think we'll get that thing to ignore nullifiers considering we have so many things to ignore the battle and still win

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They are fair Devs. If a content suck@ss then it f**king sucks for everyone and it cannot be bypassed by paying. Mostly we just don't understand what's going on in their mind because they make really dumb designs time to time but other than that Warframe has the best business models and most of the game don't feel like a complete rip-off.

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10 hours ago, WingR84 said:

The arcanes that prog from primary kills (Primary Merciless - 5 or 7p) are more expensive than the once that up your primary damage after melee kills (Primary Dexterity- 1 or 2p).
You cant do melee in the Legendary1 test so you need the more expensive once to up your damage with those new arcanes in this test.

People farm those for Steel anyway so the prices should go down... soon you should get all the arcanes for 1p, because people want the Steel to buy Kuva

For one you don't need fancy Arcanes to do the L1 MR Test, did you not watch my video I posted? you mentioned the test in your first post, I did that to show you it's not hard to do and without the fancy new weapon Arcanes, (which weren't even around back then) the weapons don't need them for it.

Why buy the Arcanes anyway, waste of plat if you play the game mode, but I guess for some it's still too hard, I play Steel Path so they drop everytime an Acolyte spawns in and then dies, while I'm just playing normally.

 

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12 hours ago, WingR84 said:

I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).

LOL I practiced it cos I'm not Legendary yet and beat it with an Ignis Wraith. Perhaps you just need to play the game a bit more, rather than buy everything with plat. Previous threads you have made suggest you simply prefer to buy your way through the game so I'm not suprised you haven't bothered to attempt the test yet. 

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12 hours ago, WingR84 said:

My problem isnt that i dont like playing Warframe: I had fun playing Frost on excavations today and i enjoy Jailjack with a good group.
The problem that i see is that i feel that DE doesnt want me to enjoy the game but to go and play "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater" while Youtubers start to leave the game and people say "they're burned out". You CAN play for free but i feel people dont delete their lvl40 weapons and primes, so lvl40 weapons = more plat spend on slots and the forma drain also brings money if people buy Forma OR you spend time farming Forma BPs and hope that a voidfisher/storm that you enjoy is up.

Have you ever thought of maybe playing one of the other 1000s of games that are out there? If you don't enjoy it, why are you playing?

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vor 57 Minuten schrieb Slayer-.:

 

For one you don't need fancy Arcanes to do the L1 MR Test, did you not watch my video I posted? you mentioned the test in your first post, I did that to show you it's not hard to do and without the fancy new weapon Arcanes, (which weren't even around back then) the weapons don't need them for it.

Why buy the Arcanes anyway, waste of plat if you play the game mode, but I guess for some it's still too hard, I play Steel Path so they drop everytime an Acolyte spawns in and then dies, while I'm just playing normally.

 

I think the problem here is that you dont understand how i play the game.

I like harder survivals, but not all the time and i pref excavations to open relics with frost over smashing e e e e e e e e e e e e or using a gamepad with a prime range guandao+ range riven to walk up and down the time for hours.

I also always sell the new prime stuff and the "rebuy" it like 1 month down the road, but if i can get the new arcane damage boost by spending some plat.. then i dont mind doing that.


Why would i grind the steel path? I have about 200 000k Kuva and lots of steel from clearing the starmap, so i can buy anything for a while. I'm not into grinding kuva to roll rivens that then get nerfed. I also brought the new arbi mods, because i pref to run railjack missions for holo keys over waiting for a good arbi that gives me endo... while i have enoth endo to max out 20 prime mods (after i upgraded those new once... and i still could go to mars and trade in sculptures)

 

And by the way... this is DE. They will release more stuff later at some point that will force me to replay the same stuff anyway, so i might as well avoid it to not hate the gamemode even more once they release something that forces me to run arbi, because it's a drop from a rotation, like a weapon BP that you cant trade.

 

This is the probem here... i dont trust DE anymore, because ANYTIME i was done with something they come up with a reason to make me play that gamemode again, so i end up with lots of stuff that i dont need, while new players get the new things AND they still need the old stuff. You know... like when we farmed the spiders on Orb Valis and once anyone was done... they added ephemeras. Or how they like to punish you if you missed the Void trader or a launch and have to grind orokin towers for weaponparts.

 

I just missed the new gunblade and the prisma machete, because youtubers quit and i didnt know. I mean i could've read the marketing mail about Tennocon, but i was busy with my girl that weekend and now i have to buy it with plat OR i will have to face a terrible grind once they add it into the game and this is a terrible "consumer experience"

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vor 25 Minuten schrieb WingR84:

 I just missed the new gunblade and the prisma machete, because youtubers quit and i didnt know. I mean i could've read the marketing mail about Tennocon, but i was busy with my girl that weekend and now i have to buy it with plat OR i will have to face a terrible grind once they add it into the game and this is a terrible "consumer experience"

Do you also complain to your local supermarket about a terrible consumer experience, when you miss the super sale and they won't give you things for cheap when you go there weeks after?

You didn't check your Email, or any official ressource, and now DE is bad because they might make you work (aka play the game) to get the promotional item for free?

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29 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

I mean i could've read the marketing mail about Tennocon, but i was busy with my girl that weekend and now i have to buy it with plat OR i will have to face a terrible grind once they add it into the game and this is a terrible "consumer experience"

Judge Judy Reaction GIF by Agent M Loves Gifs

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Excuse me I'm not acquainted with the gif you've chosen to use. This has created a terrible consumer experience for me and I'm going to leave you a 1 star rating. I just don't feel like you respect my time.

At this point I am questioning if OP is asking for respect or entitlement.

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14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).

It's already easy. None of the tests that require killing have enemies with high enough HP for it to matter. If abilities were allowed, you could afk with Celestial Twin and finish the test.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

The big problem here is that people that are coming back have to play basic missions again to get the tokens... 

I don't see ow the tokens are an issue for any non-new players. The guy that drops them isn't new. I don't even do the Revamped Corpus stuff other than if it was tied to SP Dailies, and I had nearly 100 of them. Add on the fact you can get one back when you spent one, plus while farming murmurs you end up getting multiple of them. I pointlessly waste my tokens on rescuing the npcs otherwise the amount I have keeps going up.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?
I was somehow lazy and didnt forma many things, so i have about 100 forma saved up, but i'm out of forma BPs and now i have to open relics just to farm them AND login every day to build them.
It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

The forma "problem" is only a "problem" for the people that are somehow "completionists" but don't want to put in the time to keep their status.

Most of the player base doesn't care about their MR, as is evident by the fact everything in the game at max requires mid-range MR. Even reaching MR 30 and LR1 provided virtually 0 rewards, and the incentive from going up was lowered a while ago.

The only issue I take with the 5 formas is I can't just use 5 at once and just level the weapon with an inflated affinity requirement. Going to the arsenal several times is the annoyance, but that's a "first world problem" type of thing.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

-Farming 5 forma BPs takes time
-Building them takes you about 5 days... and then you dont use the weapon anymore, because you level up the nextone

Liches/Sisters are content aimed at people towards the end of the game, by then you could easily sell stuff for plat and buy a bundle, or many bundles. Newly released items, even primes, sell for an inflated price before dropping. There's also been cases of things being easy several hundred plat or thousands. These are prices using WF Market, and not even wasting time ripping people off in trade chat.

Even then, 5x days to effectively max a weapon is not a long time, especially not when you're mainly waiting for a timer, and not actually grinding for 5 days. Try playing any other game that involve "mastering" any gear, good luck maxing them out in 5 days without playing the game for 24 hrs a day for 5 days.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

while Youtubers start to leave the game and

If only that would quit, instead of saying they did and never do. They're the ones DE listen to and are responsible for some garbage ideas. They're no different to "celebreities", they are out of touch with the general population and should be ignored.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

I hope that you watch the doku about your own game again and try to remember that "how to keep users logged in" doesnt equal fun in gameplay.

You, like everyone else that complains, never bother to explain what "fun gameplay" even means. The point of "feedback" isn't to just list what you don't like, you're supposed to explain why x is disliked, and what the alternative to it is. Although, the vast majority of "feedback" is just a wall of complaints with absolutely no alternative mentioned.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

I deleted frames like base Chroma once you released Chroma prime. The helminth system is nice, but why do i have to pay 100 000 stading to rebuy chroma or why do i have to refarm base Trinity if i mastered her 2 years ago? I farmed that stupid encounter 70-100 times (took me 2 months with 2-4 fights per day), because the systems didnt want to drop.... it was traumatizing and i dont want to do it again! The way you try to make me replay old stuff is what makes me feel that you dont respect your players time anymore (that was one of the points of "SkillUp". How can a prime part be more easy to get than a normal version? Just let me feed primes to helminth...

You don't "have" to. You can either bypass it with plat via trading, or you know, do the sensible thing and not bother. You aren't really rewarded for sacrificing a Warframe for an ability you're likely never going to use. Someone that's played for a while would have the resources to easily get duplicates back, or already have multiple duplicates of a variety of Warframes.

This is another "completionist" attitude without the full attitude of one.

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Once again: Just because you make me replay old stuff again to get usertime on steam.... doesnt mean that i enjoy the content. I really hope that the fight against the Sentients will come soon (2 more nightwaves i guess?!?)

Are you playing Warframe, or what?

Almost all "new" content is literally old content with new rewards tied to it. What difference does it make if DE releases survival #1,000 with new rewards, or shoves the new reward behind an already existing node? New mission types are rarely added to the game, and even the Railjack update only added one new mission type with the rest being existing missions copy/pasted.

Even a good portion of "new" guns and melee weapons are old weapons with slightly altered appearances with altered stats, and sometimes an alternate fire mode copied from another weapon. This even extends to "new" mods, some of them are just buffed versions of existing mods and even the arcanes are the same as already existing Warframe arcanes but "new" for weapons only with extra stats when they're max rank. They could have easily taken the already existing arcanes, and added the bonus at max rank.

 

Other than that, expecting "respect" from a development studio that exists for the purpose of producing profit is beyond silly. Generating a positive income is required and not optional. This amounts to either selling skins on a frequent schedule like League does, or creating problems and selling solutions. DE doesn't release cosmetics often enough and relies on selling solutions. Most games either sell solutions, or they sell gambling [loot boxes/Surprise! Mechanics].

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4 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Even if DE owes us nothing and we simply feel obligated to respect, I think it is important how the relationship (or rather the perception of the relationship) is established.

Imagine you are conducting a business transaction in Star Trek. You are dealing with:

  • a Ferengi, your first opinion is "of course they're going to try to rip me off" and you start with a set expectation of that. Or
  • a Vulkan, you first think "Vulkans can't lie! This is going to be an honest transaction" and you relax your guard.

Of course the idea is completely racist. Vulkans have the potential capability to be just as or even more cunning merchants than any Ferengi.

So you get ripped off by both merchants. Which one hurt your pride more?

superman running GIF

This is a really fantastic analogy (for those of us who are star trek fans!).

The idea being that DE try really hard to present themselves as friendly, and so it hurts extra much when we get burned.

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40 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

I think the problem here is that you dont understand how i play the game.

I like harder survivals, but not all the time and i pref excavations to open relics with frost over smashing e e e e e e e e e e e e or using a gamepad with a prime range guandao+ range riven to walk up and down the time for hours.


Why would i grind the steel path? I have about 200 000k Kuva and lots of steel from clearing the starmap, so i can buy anything for a while. I'm not into grinding kuva to roll rivens that then get nerfed. I also brought the new arbi mods, because i pref to run railjack missions for holo keys over waiting for a good arbi that gives me endo... while i have enoth endo to max out 20 prime mods (after i upgraded those new once... and i still could go to mars and trade in sculptures)

This is the probem here... i dont trust DE anymore, because ANYTIME i was done with something they come up with a reason to make me play that gamemode again, so i end up with lots of stuff that i dont need, while new players get the new things AND they still need the old stuff. You know... like when we farmed the spiders on Orb Valis and once anyone was done... they added ephemeras. Or how they like to punish you if you missed the Void trader or a launch and have to grind orokin towers for weaponparts.

 

I just missed the new gunblade and the prisma machete, because youtubers quit and i didnt know. I mean i could've read the marketing mail about Tennocon, but i was busy with my girl that weekend and now i have to buy it with plat OR i will have to face a terrible grind once they add it into the game and this is a terrible "consumer experience"

Everybody plays the game how they want, I'm not judging you or care how you play the game.

P.s I use combo's I don't spam e e e e e e e e e e e e, mouse keyboard here old school, to match old me. :tongue:

Good for you, I play Steel Path because I like it, not to farm Kuva or Essence, I have heaps of Essence from the when DE compensated the players who had cleared the starchart in the early days, again thank you DE for that.

I've always said don't rush into new content, wait awhile for all the bugs and such to be ironed out, but I still do it, I'm a sucker for punishment. :facepalm:

So you have trust issues, I don't know why you would think you'd need to trust DE they are a gaming company and will do what they want, yes we complain at times but it's their game.

You missing out on the new gunblade and the prisma machete, because youtubers quit, is a bit sad, you revolve around watching youtube streamers to get things instead of keeping up to date from within the game, oh well everyone to their own I guess. :wink:

 

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The phrasing of this question is odd to me. DE is a business, a business involved with video games, a type of entertainment. It has multiple goals, one is to make money, and tied into that is provide an experience enjoyable enough so to facilitate profit. They know they can't interest everyone, so its about trying to appeal to select certain people, in various ways. People or players also have competing interests and preferences. If we frame it as 'respect' we create a situation where some of us may feel respected by a decision, where as others feel disrespected. Its in their best interest to be enjoyable to people. Importantly... people have to be decent at recognising when and how their personal enjoyment is reflective of a games current climate and its necessity to change per that individuals preferences VS others. Since there will have been plenty of times that you did enjoy Warframe, when someone else didn't and vice versa. 

Also the phrasing also seems a way to frame individual personal dissatisfaction as more than it actually is. Its not "personally I am not interested in the game anymore, but I used to be, so I feel a bit frustrated, I wish the game suited my individual needs more, but it might not, so I want to vent" to... DE doesn't respect me, maybe it doesn't respect you either? Maybe DE doesn't respect US!!" Maybe if the balance of your enjoyment towards a game, leans towards the negative, it might be time for a break? Not that venting and criticism isn't okay, venting and criticism are important, sometimes people conflate the two though. Intent or not, its a common type of rhetoric that attempts to give more weight and urgency to issues we have. 

I think it's really important to consider how we individually and collectively frame our issues, criticism, praise, objections and complaints, in general, but specifically with Warframe, since, naturally thats the focus of the thread. It gives our feedback more sincerity, when we know how to seperate our frustrations from criticism/praise, and we are more open about our own personal preferences which do often overlap with others, but also diverge too. Not all our views are always the most popular, but also the most popular views aren't always the best... and actually delving into the specifics requires thoughtfulness and consideration that is often blurred and slowed by hyperbole and exaggeration. Right now I have my own criticisms and issues with the game, but right now, I am on a positive upswing. In the past I have been bored of the game, and turned interest elsewhere, and I suspect that will happen again too. If I ever felt like the game was sucking my desire to play, I just wouldn't play. 

Oh and MR31/Leg 1 is a pretty chill/easy Challenge. You don't need any of the new Arcanes for it. Only possible issue might be if the enemies get super lucky and stun lock you off the map, if you are using a frame with no immunity to that/no PSF. Even then though... Good luck! 

 

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Hmm , after 4 years playing the game and being at the max possible mastery , i think DE earned enough respect from me to keep playing it at least.

Does DE respect my time? yes , thats why platinum exists , to save me time and skip the grind mostly if i so choose.

Does DE respect my investment? A bit of a slippery slope , i dont find PA to be worth it, so i wait for some discount on regular plat instead which is worth it.

Lets not forget that its still a business and they need to make money.

But honestly , i do not need respect i need consistency and some actual planning from DE when releasing updates and features. Maybe lay off the multi layered RNG sauce while they are at it.

I dont like everything DE has done , but i am still here , so they have gotten a fair amount right as well.

 

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Just quickly, Wing, the mission you do to spawn a sister is also the mission where you get tier 3 Granum crowns.

In my experience, it’s not really feasible to run out. As every attempt is +1 -1. So I’m not sure exactly what you’re doing wrong, but the solution to that problem already exists and has nothing to do with DE respecting your time.

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1 hour ago, Sinekanter said:

At this point I am questioning if OP is asking for respect or entitlement.

The last topics he made that stick in the memory was asking why he couldn't buy Umbra forma with plat and had to instead go and earn it from Nightwave, before they added Steel Path. And the other one was why he couldn't buy some of the Deimos resources with plat and had to go mine it instead. So that should give you a good idea.

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