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Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?


WingR84

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15 hours ago, WingR84 said:

mainly if you think that DE respects you and your time?

Short answer: Yes and no. Went over the issue in forums years ago, don't want to state it again. Have you seen this Chinese phase before? “别人把你卖了,你还帮别人数钱” & "你永远叫不醒一个装睡的人" - Google is a fantastic tool for those who need a hint.

There are many very smart people in this forum, you can figure it out from the posts they make. They either fall into either one or both of those categories.

As for people like myself, the developers at DE are merely our trade partner. We follow their arrangements, daily logins whatever to fulfill whatever objectives they have, in exchange for playing for free. We owe DE nothing and DE owe us nothing.

i really wonder how people see it. please also tell us your MR so we see how much of the grind you've done. What didnt you do and why?

MR 13 only recently (I started playing when we are using void keys instead of relics). I didn't grind, my star chart is incomplete, only Mercury is completed, Eris untouched. Loki Prime, Fang Prime, Trinity Prime, Vectis Prime, Ash Prime, I didn't farm for it (Twitch drops), Ivara Prime like Oberon, just showed up in my inventory (I am still using Ivara not prime). No Railjack. Many quests (including latest 2 open world) undone. Why I didn't do the normal quests is like what you mentioned, primes are easier to get to me (since I don't really care if I get them or not)

Normal Warframes in my collection, Ember, Rhino (sold), Limbo, Nyx (sold), Mag-starter WF(sold). "Farmed" Limbo(no potato) to farm (not really much of a farm, got parts rather quickly) Ivara, don't know why, maybe just need to have an adrenaline rush. Normally don't play anything above T2, looking for fun, not challenge. I find it funny to find challenge in a game, because games no matter how "challenging" can never compared to what life has in store for you. So exactly what kind of challenge are people looking for in this game? How well one coordinate eyes and fingers?

I also don't understand the complains about undying Warframes, it says "Mission Failed" not "Warframe Died", so why the obsession over it. It's the 21st Century, "Super Warframe Bros"? Or maybe we should put the lore in, DIED like Mirage, wipe out Warframe, farm again?

My current plan right now is to get void fissures, get relics, open relics, get prime parts (whatever they might drop, no matter).

 

15 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Do you feel respected by DE here?

If it is forma specific, I have no opinion. My advice to you is this, if you feel that you are not respected, you can just do a fair trade with them as written above if you really like this game. I find it amusing that one will want to give his/her hard earned money (Ok, maybe for some, making money is easy or you know get from someone else.) to an establishment that you feel doesn't respect you.

 

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

The last topics he made that stick in the memory was asking why he couldn't buy Umbra forma with plat and had to instead go and earn it from Nightwave, before they added Steel Path. And the other one was why he couldn't buy some of the Deimos resources with plat and had to go mine it instead. So that should give you a good idea.

Very ironic that some people here say that DE does respect "you", because you (in this case I) can skip stuff that you dont like with plat... and how you hold that against me, because i prefer to play the parts of the games that i enoy and dislike forced content?

I dont have a problem with playing the game, but i dislike it when they have XX kuva weapons and then always add more, so the chance for me to spawn the correct one gets lower and lower with every patch.

 

I also wrote that i dont mind them adding nightwave, but i dislike playing assasination and mobile defence missions to get nightwave standing to then get one Umbra Forma, because at the same time i could open relics (something that i enjoy) and just buy it from the marked. Is this really so hard to understand that i dont mind you wasting your life on stuff that i dont like if it brings you joy... but that i just dont want to do 200 missions that then give me Umbra Forma?

And the Dimos part was about me not understanding the towers. I still dont understand/care what the symbols do and like the people wrote it on the topic... just use do one thing and hope it's the right one. With a booster i was able got get enoth resources. This doesnt mean that i liked it... and i still dislike mining and fishing on every open world map.

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4 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

I dont have a problem with playing the game, but i dislike it when they have XX kuva weapons and then always add more, so the chance for me to spawn the correct one gets lower and lower with every patch.

the disrespect...adding new stuff to do and farm to keep you interested in the game? UGH. HOW DARE THEY?!

6 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

I also wrote that i dont mind them adding nightwave, but i dislike playing assasination and mobile defence missions to get nightwave standing to then get one Umbra Forma, because at the same time i could open relics (something that i enjoy) and just buy it from the marked. Is this really so hard to understand that i dont mind you wasting your life on stuff that i dont like if it brings you joy... but that i just dont want to do 200 missions that then give me Umbra Forma?

So the problem here is not that DE is disrespecting you.

the problem here is that you feel entitled to whine about everything you don't like to do. 

Just because you don't like to do assassinations, mobile defence, fishing or whatever you dislike doesn't mean that DE should not put said quests in the game.

 you're not the center of the wolrd. you don't matter. 

And don't use the pitiful "It'S fOrCeD cOnTeNt!1!111!!" because it isn't. 

you don't have to do nightwave, you don't have to build your railjack, you don't have to get the lich weapons, you don't have to farm arcanes, you don't have to farm steel essence. 

You choose to do those things. 

so...at the end of the day...again, if you don't like to do those things put a list of pros and cons and if the cons are more than the pros...GET OFF THE GAME. 

DE is not forced to please you, me, anyone in this thread or the world. 

DE puts in the game what they think people AT LARGE, will like. not me or you. 

you're not the majority of the community. you are a sand particle in a desert. 

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You should understand what you are getting into, WF is an absolute time-sink and don't expect to get anything out of it, because its a casino game, there is no reward for effort or skill. Most missions are just wait on a timer for another chance of a roll. If you really have a problem with it - you should quit and save your time. It should be clear to everyone that WF is specifically designed to waste your time.

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

the disrespect...adding new stuff to do and farm to keep you interested in the game? UGH. HOW DARE THEY?!

So the problem here is not that DE is disrespecting you.

the problem here is that you feel entitled to whine about everything you don't like to do. 

Just because you don't like to do assassinations, mobile defence, fishing or whatever you dislike doesn't mean that DE should not put said quests in the game.

 

at this point i stoped reading, because you make up things to "prove" your point, while quoting the text where i said the exact opposite right above it.

 

vor 33 Minuten schrieb WingR84:

I also wrote that i dont mind them adding nightwave, but i dislike playing assasination and mobile defence missions to get nightwave standing to then get one Umbra Forma, because at the same time i could open relics (something that i enjoy) and just buy it from the marked.  Is this really so hard to understand that i dont mind you wasting your life on stuff that i dont like if it brings you joy... but that i just dont want to do 200 missions that then give me Umbra Forma?


This part is about the mission option to buy Umbra Forma (they now added a way to buy them that doesnt force me to do nightwave... that problem is now gone for me, so why the hell do we even argue about this, because i was mad abou them adding Umbra forma and THE ONLY WAY to get them was to log in every week and do as many Nightwave Missions as you could. They made changes.... it doesnt matter anymore.

 

The towers are still stupid, but since they added other missions I just did the towers and marked them if something dropped (so the team could pick it up) while they did the "defend the area" quest with Mesa. I think you hand to grind it because of the invested version of the wisp that you needed to build the necramechs and the invested Kitguns.

I still dont understand why that "invested wisp" thing has the highest chance to drop on the first two missionsteps (plus it's a bronze reward, so you cant finish the mission with the bonus, because then you get silver drops... so not helping to defend the area was the better way to get that sili.... how ever that thing is called).

 

vor 37 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

GET OFF THE GAME. 

Why dont you get of this thread here?

 

vor 39 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

DE puts in the game what they think people AT LARGE, will like. not me or you. 

says he while ignoring all the points i made (for example removing forma from Plaque Star while adding more items that need you to forma them, so ppl buy more forma)

 

vor 41 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

you're not the majority of the community. you are a sand particle in a desert. 

I've noticed a while ago that most people are not able to see the way DE is changing the way we play Warframe and that they keep testing out how people are willing to go with the grind. People did respond with "i dont care" OR "just use plat to skip the grind" (what i'm doing... but they yell at me because they dont even understand what i'm talking about). The Third way people responded was "yes, i've noticed... and i hate it".

The people that are part of the third group gave me the answers that i was looking for... the rest sadly wasnt able to understand the question and chose to insult me, because i "attack their pressures DE".

 

You can play Warframe for free, you can go very, VERY far, but that wasnt the point of the topic here... it's about the question if you feel that the time needed to unlock lategame items (like the Ambassador) is worth it. So far nobody wrote about the new Kuva weapons ( i got them fast) or how long it took to get all the Sisters weapons and how they think it will be in the future, once the Sisters and Queens get more weapons.

Let me ask you... how many times have you played Railjack Orphix?
1 time to unlock the tile?

I have the feeling that we will get some new items in the future that come from Railjack Orphix... and the dropchance will be so low that those items will become very expensive.
The only question is... will they be usefull Arcanes or not?

Arcanes for archguns? For the mechs?
I would farm them and enjoy it, but oh boy.... you can be sure that sooner or later they will big an event before it becomes usefull (orphix event where you can buy the arcanes) and show the finger to those who grinded it out (and this is what i'm talking about... the respect for those who chose to grind)

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1 hour ago, WingR84 said:

Very ironic that some people here say that DE does respect "you", because you (in this case I) can skip stuff that you dont like with plat... and how you hold that against me, because i prefer to play the parts of the games that i enoy and dislike forced content?

I dont have a problem with playing the game, but i dislike it when they have XX kuva weapons and then always add more, so the chance for me to spawn the correct one gets lower and lower with every patch.

 

I also wrote that i dont mind them adding nightwave, but i dislike playing assasination and mobile defence missions to get nightwave standing to then get one Umbra Forma, because at the same time i could open relics (something that i enjoy) and just buy it from the marked. Is this really so hard to understand that i dont mind you wasting your life on stuff that i dont like if it brings you joy... but that i just dont want to do 200 missions that then give me Umbra Forma?

And the Dimos part was about me not understanding the towers. I still dont understand/care what the symbols do and like the people wrote it on the topic... just use do one thing and hope it's the right one. With a booster i was able got get enoth resources. This doesnt mean that i liked it... and i still dislike mining and fishing on every open world map.

This is a farming game, you don't seem to enjoy farming unless it's the way YOU WANT TO FARM. That's a YOU problem, not the game. Most of your complaints boil down to "I can't be bothered understanding this" or "I don't like doing that" so just don't, that's fine. But don't cry that you can't skip something with plat because it just makes you come across as an angry toddler throwing a tantrum. I'll bet you leave 1 star reviews online for shops you visited as well. Games have progression in them, you don't seem to understand or like that. Too bad.

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5 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

The towers are still stupid, but since they added other missions I just did the towers and marked them if something dropped (so the team could pick it up) while they did the "defend the area" quest with Mesa. I think you hand to grind it because of the invested version of the wisp that you needed to build the necramechs and the invested Kitguns.

Towers were, are and will be an extra method of farming, it's not the principal way to farm stuff on Deimos. 

So....what are you talking about? you want to do one tower and get all that you need? lol

6 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Why dont you get of this thread here?

Because it's a public thread and i can and will laugh at the entitled kids that think they know better than developers. 

9 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

The people that are part of the third group gave me the answers that i was looking for... the rest sadly wasnt able to understand the question and chose to insult me, because i "attack their pressures DE".

Ah yes. the "i don't like your opinion so you must me a Softwere house shill". 

11 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

it's about the question if you feel that the time needed to unlock lategame items (like the Ambassador) is worth it. So far nobody wrote about the new Kuva weapons ( i got them fast) or how long it took to get all the Sisters weapons and how they think it will be in the future, once the Sisters and Queens get more weapons.

Oh, you mean the weapon that had the drop rate bugged untill...last week? yeah, you couldn't even drop it if you were in coop. and now it's fixed.

or do you mean the lich/sister weapons that you can now farm 5 times faster than before? 

12 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Let me ask you... how many times have you played Railjack Orphix?
1 time to unlock the tile?

I actualy enjoy Orphix. lol 

Again...just because YOU don't like it, it doesn't mean that everyone else thinks like you.

OR FOR THAT MATTER, SHOULD.

14 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Arcanes for archguns? For the mechs?
I would farm them and enjoy it, but oh boy.... you can be sure that sooner or later they will big an event before it becomes usefull (orphix event where you can buy the arcanes) and show the finger to those who grinded it out (and this is what i'm talking about... the respect for those who chose to grind)

Again, make a list of pros and cons. 

if the cons are higher, pack it up buddy.

for you mental health. 

 

Getting mad because DE makes an event to facilitate the farming of arcanes is just lame...

if you feel that way and you don't like to farm them the normal way, wait for said event end do the arcanes with the rest of the people. 

by the way...it's called an "event" for a reason.

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4 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

What is this nonsense. Respected? As if the dev owes me personally? What the... lol. I know the newer generations think the world is all about them, but this is getting a bit much eh.

Well it's not "respect" in a personal sense. More like "does your time and love into this game actually mean something to the devs or they treat you like a total moron in an abusive relationship" sense. At least that's what I think OP meant.

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10 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

fair question.

if only warframe wasn't a farming based game. 

The difference within the same farming based genre can be huge. Warframe is THE online game with the best business model I've ever played and the farming in this game really is in the minimal level if one ever played any Korean MMORPG. A lot of mandatory equipment has like 1/125861581209 chance to drop or simply locked behind a paid wall. And they tend to put the most rewarding content (mostly more powerful equipment) behind these mandatory equipment. DE actually made once extremely valuable items (Prime Chamber being the best example) available to the whole playerbase which is really rare if not the only case in the game industry. How DE handles the farming and their game development though is another story.

If Warframe is a Korean game all the prime equipment will be paid only, platinum is not tradeable, skins and cosmetics are plat only, arcanes will be much rarer and exilus adapters and potatoes will be paid only. Maybe half of the warframes (or any other than the 3 starters) will be plat only.

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18 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Well it's not "respect" in a personal sense. More like "does your time and love into this game actually mean something to the devs or they treat you like a total moron in an abusive relationship" sense. At least that's what I think OP meant.

Yea. That's still being personally offended by a dev that makes a game for a group rather than an individual. Now if DE made this game just for me by my specifications and they didn't deliver well, then I'd be upset. Man, I miss the 90s, where people would criticize a game, but not feel personally offended by everything.

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vor 27 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

I actualy enjoy Orphix. lol 

Again...just because YOU don't like it, it doesn't mean that everyone else thinks like you.

OR FOR THAT MATTER, SHOULD.

Dude i start to think that you have ADHD... my question was "did you play RAILJACK Orphix more than just for unlocking the tile?" and not if you enjoy it or not.

I didnt say that i dont like it... stop accusing me of things that i never said to then use it as a reason to insult me

vor 27 Minuten schrieb (PSN)max141064:

Again, make a list of pros and cons. 

if the cons are higher, pack it up buddy.

for you mental health. 

 

Getting mad because DE makes an event to facilitate the farming of arcanes is just lame...

if you feel that way and you don't like to farm them the normal way, wait for said event end do the arcanes with the rest of the people. 

by the way...it's called an "event" for a reason.

I just told you the reason why i started to skip stuff, because i feel it's not worth the time. Why should i farm the steel parth if people that farm kuva on the SP fortress and prices will drop to 1p in the future, because the supply will be way higher than the demand? I've a degee in industrial managment and worked in purchase... i cant get this out of my head and buy/sell based on the marked.

Once i noticed how the system works i started to question any release if it's worth grinding or if i should just spend plat  (the make or buy qustion in managment)

I farmed the first Sister weapons and brought the last one (out of portal tokens and chance for a drop was to low... just not worth the time)
I had luck with the Kuva weapons but for the very last one i thought to myself after 20 runs.... F it... i just buy it for plat that i will get back while i open relics in Voidstorms. Hell, i'm better of standing in the dojo selling stuff than doing another run to get another low chance to get the last weapon that i need.

 

Over all i also dont get it why people like you are so toxic about the way other people play the game.
I like to have the option to skip stuff that i dont like... doesnt mean that i always do it (depends on how hard the grind is and the price to skip it).


But i'm sure you can explain me:
Why should I grind the new arcanes (that will drop to 1p at one point, because people farm for kuva) if i dont need any kuva?
Why should I play Arbi again if i have all the mods from there if i can just sell 1 or 2 vaulted frames that i farmed in a gamemode that i enjoy?

Why shouldnt I focus all my playtime on doing voidstorms and hope for holokeys and just buy the 1 remaining meso oder lith drop, because people play Axi Voidstorms.
Now i can level my gear while farming Holokeys and because i do melee the arcanes that i brought for 2p works fine for me. What i do need is forma BP (A LOT)... and those dont drop while playing Steel Path or Arbi

 

Anyway... it's annyong here and in the end it doesnt matter, because i will have enoth portal tokens for future Sister Weapons and i will have the forma for them as well.
But let me tell you that IF they will add stuff that will drop for the Orphix missions and once people have that they come out with the "Orphix event" i will post a link to this if people complain about it.

Not because i dont want to play... but because I'm annoyed by how DE has changed from content to "lets combine 2 missions so it takes longer and call it content" to make more plat and "if you ignore the RL you can get an extra good deal right now" events.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Marvelous_A:

Well it's not "respect" in a personal sense. More like "does your time and love into this game actually mean something to the devs or they treat you like a total moron in an abusive relationship" sense. At least that's what I think OP meant.

Yes, you get it.. thanks!

I hate if to farm and once i have anything.... athey add another thing to the rotation that has a lower dropchance than anything that droped before (the boss that dops hilden for example)

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2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

...

If Warframe is a Korean game all the prime equipment will be paid only, platinum is not tradeable, skins and cosmetics are plat only, arcanes will be much rarer and exilus adapters and potatoes will be paid only. Maybe half of the warframes (or any other than the 3 starters) will be plat only.

 

Are you talking about mobile korean MMOs or actual PC/console korean MMOs? Because what you said is not true at all and hasn't been for like, maybe almost a decade now?

There might still be some super shady outlier asian/korean MMOs that still do these extreme p2w practices, but I spent the past several years playing 3 big asian/korean MMOs, basically all of which are considered to have sketchy progression/monetization (the most famous one everyone will have heard is Black Desert Online) and let me tell you, none of them did those extreme things you are talking about.

There's never, ever "paid only" gear. You can farm for all the gear in game, but it's usually very grindy and sometimes you have the option to pay to skip (or speed) the grind - exactly like WF does. Even skins and cosmetics you have options in game to earn some good ones, usually there's some RNG involved (loot box style), but you can absolutely get free cosmetics. Ofc the paid ones are usually much better - again, exactly like WF does. I know cosmetics is personal and subjective, but by far my best skins in WF are prime accessories ones (I have prime misa, edo and a bunch of other ones).

Progression is never tied to "paid only" in those games, just like gear isn't. Money just makes it faster (although sometimes that isn't even the case, you just have to deal with the uber grind). The one thing those games do that is usually worse than western MMOs is tying progression to RNG systems. Like the enhancement system in BDO, kuf2 and many others. You have to gather and spend resources to upgrade your gear, but the upgrade is done through a roll, that can either succeed or fail. I find that horrible, main reason I burned out on BDO. And you know what WF does that is exactly the same? Rivens. 

As I said in my other post in this thread, the one saving grace WF has that makes it different from those other asian MMOs is allowing players to trade and farm platinum (premium currency). Some games allow limited forms of this, like one of the games I played allowed you to trade for some premium items, so if you farmed in game currency, you could trade with other players for the premium items you needed, like battle passes. But it's usually limited. Warframe gives players almost unlimited access to platinum. That is, IMO, what makes WF's monetization model a LOT more fair and player friendly. But it's the only thing, honestly. 

I'm not even saying Warframe or even these korean MMOs are wrong to do business this way. I get it. "Free hooks" with microtransactions are the business norm nowadays. Heck, I've used that in my own business and it works. But we also need to put this into perspective here. Warframe is grindy AF, just as grindy as those other korean MMOs the media likes to bash so much. As someone else said above WF is basically a casino game, designed  to keep you addicted through reward dopamine hits. I'm just old enough to remember a time when we played games because it was fun to shoot the bad guys and finish a level, not because we had to chase a 5% drop chance on C rotation for ONE part of a multi-part weapon craft. 

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1 hour ago, WingR84 said:

Yes, you get it.. thanks!

I hate if to farm and once i have anything.... athey add another thing to the rotation that has a lower dropchance than anything that droped before (the boss that dops hilden for example)

It's quite easy. Regardless of what the dev does. You should own up to your decision to put time into something. Externalizing the blame for your time investment is a bad habit. Game changes should not affect your feeling about prior investment. Because that simply means you depend things you do on others. Even if it's something no one has anything to do with. Like I said. Own up to your own decision. It makes your life with this stuff much easier.

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1 hour ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

 

Are you talking about mobile korean MMOs or actual PC/console korean MMOs? Because what you said is not true at all and hasn't been for like, maybe almost a decade now?

There might still be some super shady outlier asian/korean MMOs that still do these extreme p2w practices, but I spent the past several years playing 3 big asian/korean MMOs, basically all of which are considered to have sketchy progression/monetization (the most famous one everyone will have heard is Black Desert Online) and let me tell you, none of them did those extreme things you are talking about.

Pets, cosmetics (normal and camo suit), maids, butlers, weapon upgrade tools and so on were part of BDO and straight P2W. Some of those items didnt become tradable until far later down the line. And they went for silly prices. It also take it to a further level of sketchyness due to BDO being full blown PvP where level difference matters a crapton in combat outcome between players due to the under the hood hit/miss system tied to the otherwise regular 3rd person arpg looking combat. Pretty much anything that lets you avoid downtime in grinding or increases your xp efficinecy is p2w in that game.

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53 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Pets, cosmetics (normal and camo suit), maids, butlers, weapon upgrade tools and so on were part of BDO and straight P2W. Some of those items didnt become tradable until far later down the line. And they went for silly prices. It also take it to a further level of sketchyness due to BDO being full blown PvP where level difference matters a crapton in combat outcome between players due to the under the hood hit/miss system tied to the otherwise regular 3rd person arpg looking combat. Pretty much anything that lets you avoid downtime in grinding or increases your xp efficinecy is p2w in that game.

I've played game that started promising. Paid gear only offered like 5% bonus stat or so. Until the publisher grew impatient and introduced very OP "cosmetic" (with no level limitation whatsoever) in a lottery system. You get like 40000% stat boost with it and can one-punch a lvl 50 monster and tank their attacks with little to no damage at all with a lvl 1 character that's how stupid it was. 

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If I don't feel respected by DE, it's because of things like missing feedback pointing out essential flaws with the new ranged arcanes and galvanized mods.

Spending time in the game, especially a game so grind-focused as Warframe, is par for the course.

Though it always bothers me when there's a small or non-existent plat bypass for something quite hard on the grind side. If I'm grinding up Liches or Sisters to max out my weapon and I'm not having fun doing it, I'd probably rather pay to, at least, get past the murmur fuss. But I can't. And I don't wholly get why that shortcut doesn't exist. Most people in that kind of "hate it but suffer through it" are more likely to burn out the more extreme it is, so I don't see it helping player retention. And it misses out on a possible revenue enticement. Not to mention the lack of consistency when plat bypasses exist in plenty of other areas...

That's just me, though.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb RazerXPrime:

It's quite easy. Regardless of what the dev does. You should own up to your decision to put time into something. Externalizing the blame for your time investment is a bad habit. Game changes should not affect your feeling about prior investment. Because that simply means you depend things you do on others. Even if it's something no one has anything to do with. Like I said. Own up to your own decision. It makes your life with this stuff much easier.

Well, i have the electric ephemera.. it droped while i helped a friend to get the frame..... or was it because i killed that spider for nightwave? I dont remember...

It sure is my decision if i want to farm it or not and how much i want it, but the hardest part about this is my thinking here, because my brain keeps telling me "if it would've been able to drop while i farmed for something else.... i might had gotten it".

In case of old, deleted base frames that i cant use for the helminth system the feeling is even worse, because I had it and deleted it, because I thought i would've the better version and there is no logical need to keep them. The fact that i deleted the extra blueprints, because i wanted to clean up the forge, because i cant hide things that i mastered.... that is the icing on the cake that triggers me the most.

 

I dont think that new players are happy when i join their group and blast their boss down before they even see the boss....  but that's another topic.
I might do the rest one day if someone needs help, but with Chroma that i can only cant with standing.... that one really makes me mad, because i want to try that buff on my mesa

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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Pets, cosmetics (normal and camo suit), maids, butlers, weapon upgrade tools and so on were part of BDO and straight P2W. Some of those items didnt become tradable until far later down the line. And they went for silly prices. It also take it to a further level of sketchyness due to BDO being full blown PvP where level difference matters a crapton in combat outcome between players due to the under the hood hit/miss system tied to the otherwise regular 3rd person arpg looking combat. Pretty much anything that lets you avoid downtime in grinding or increases your xp efficinecy is p2w in that game.

I mean that's debatable since Warframe offers a ton of things that are very similar to the farm/XP benefits you get from those items, but ultimately I agree with you for the part I highlighted. I played BDO (and other similar games) primarily for endgame pvp, and having those p2w items (or how they like to call it, pay to progress or pay for convenience) in a pvp environment feels a lot more unhealthy than it does in Warframe that is a 99% pve game. But let's not fool ourselves. If you were new to WF and had basically nothing, you could just swipe your credit card to get a bunch of stuff like meta frames, weapons, boosters, potatoes, vehicles, etc. You can even bypass MR restrictions with prime access and bundles afaik. That's as p2w as anything else, it's just no one cares because it's a pve game. 

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Let's flip this around for fun. Perhaps I should feel disrespected by DE because they allow lazy players like you OP to gain resources that I've spent the time to go and farm by simply spending plat? By the same logic that would mean they don't respect my time investment and that makes a "poor consumer experience" <- that bit still cracks me up.

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