Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?

[OwlOfJune]

I think WF is fantastically player-friendly in many ways, for example sharing relics and being able to earn platinum through trade.

 

But in some cases, they make a thing completely dependent on chance and when players are expected to do it repeatedly, their lack of time/fun calculations is off. 

For example, one part of Harrow being in a forgotten awful game mod, Kuva weapons all sharing same chance with no way of player input, Holokeys being not determined drop, putting Oberon behind long level RJ missions etc.

 

They REALLY should look into the 'anti-frustration' token system where players earn a bit of certain currency whenever they fail to loot, making it possible after certain amount of fails players can have a way to guarantee a 'success' (like most of mobile gacha games do, due to Chinese regulation... Which they would be wise to follow regarding their acquisition)

Which, btw, they DID already implant in perfect way in Orphix Venom event with many players appreciating it.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I mean that's debatable since Warframe offers a ton of things that are very similar to the farm/XP benefits you get from those items, but ultimately I agree with you for the part I highlighted. I played BDO (and other similar games) primarily for endgame pvp, and having those p2w items (or how they like to call it, pay to progress or pay for convenience) in a pvp environment feels a lot more unhealthy than it does in Warframe that is a 99% pve game. But let's not fool ourselves. If you were new to WF and had basically nothing, you could just swipe your credit card to get a bunch of stuff like meta frames, weapons, boosters, potatoes, vehicles, etc. You can even bypass MR restrictions with prime access and bundles afaik. That's as p2w as anything else, it's just no one cares because it's a pve game. 

P2W cannot exsist in PvE games because there is no one to win over. And another big difference is that the xp is finite in WF and there is no actual benefit with leveling a bunch of items for mastery, except the benefit of personal satisfaction. In games like BDO and ArchAge for instance, anything you buy that gives you power over other players is nothing but P2W since it helps you get the upper hand through payment and in the end a bigger chance at winning over someone. That just cannot be translated to a PvE only game where purchases are only there to let people skip things on a personal level, while also robbing themselves of gameplay time while doing it. You just dont gain anything over someone else, since the person that doesnt pay likely enjoys the gameplay loop instead. In those cases it comes down to priorities only, while in PvP games it comes down to having to spend to be on equal footing with others.

It isnt that no one cares because it is a PvE game, it simply just isnt P2W in the first place. The term has just gotten so watered down because people throw it around and apply it to anything these days. In reality those people mean the games use pay-to-skip or pay-to-get-ahead or pay-to-progress. Those arent interchangable with P2W but they can lead to P2W in games where you are actually able to win over someone that isnt paying.

Have you ever once felt that someone has won over you in WF because they payed?

[D3thpool]

50/50

I heavily dislike being forced to play gamemodes/gadgets or dont get to play them at all. Several layers of rng on top of rng still being in the game which makes the gameplay feel like a chore at times. The unwillingness of fixing or reworking content for years and rather abandon it alltogether. Refusing to listen to the bulk of feedback being offered (looking at the lich/sisters weapon rng etc)

[WingR84]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Let's flip this around for fun. Perhaps I should feel disrespected by DE because they allow lazy players like you OP to gain resources that I've spent the time to go and farm by simply spending plat? By the same logic that would mean they don't respect my time investment and that makes a "poor consumer experience" <- that bit still cracks me up.

I just wonder what you do with all the multiple sets that you got while you farmed your primes. I got my plat from that, so i traded... it's not like i spend 1000 euro to skip something (that in case it kills content for me. and not for you..no clue why you attack me here again). 

i guess we could also argue if farming the same enemys on the same tilesets (space ships) is "new content" when you combine Railjack with survival. I just dislike doing the Railjack part to then have a teammate leave after 5 minutes of survival (that forces the whole group to leave) if you have to stay 20 minutes to even get the chance for the weaponpart.

Farming the Octavia part in the wrack was ok, because i could use the drops to builds the invested dojo weapons... but this railjack survival? Only if it would give me new stuff that i can use to craft bigger health or energy reg or something else that is worth my time.

----------

and by the way... i guess you missed the point where i complained about DE giving out stuff with Events that others farmed for (Arcanes from Orphix for example) or the time i spend hunting Malice and the others to gain my Argon Scope that now isnt hard to get anymore. Yes, this is one of the things that started my anger with DE and if you would read what i wrote you would also see how annoyed iam about them adding the new mods and arcanes on stuff that i just finished farming.

Why would i farm this again to get another adoptation or rolling guard? That is part of the plat that brouht me those new mods and arcanes. Same with the missing prime parts that i brought with drops that i got in the past or while farming for the new stuff.

[Zimzala]

28 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

and by the way... i guess you missed the point where i complained about DE giving out stuff with Events that others farmed for (Arcanes from Orphix for example) or the time i spend hunting Malice and the others to gain my Argon Scope that now isnt hard to get anymore. Yes, this is one of the things that started my anger with DE and if you would read what i wrote you would also see how annoyed iam about them adding the new mods and arcanes on stuff that i just finished farming.

and by the way ... this is entirely a You problem.

This is simply how games like this work, all of them IME, GaaS games over time make things easier to acquire.

If your envy of what others are capable of getting is the issue, then no game code today can fix that.

[WingR84]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Zimzala:

If your envy of what others are capable of getting is the issue, then no game code today can fix that.

If i have anything.... how would i envy others? Whats wrong in your head?

It's more that i feel sad for you that you seem to see me as the problem here, because i pref RL over doing so many runs to get 3 weapon parts to get an item that gives 3000MR exp.
I mean you really must have a lot of time to kill (very ironic that the people who defend this waste of time have so many postings here).

 

[Squick]

There are certainly much worse games in terms of player advancement for time spent in game.

 

That being said, the grind for tenet melees is so bad I'm not going to do it. Ambassador takes so long you're better off running fissures to farm the plat to buy it. I'm not against some grind, but they really need to reduce some of the RNG in the last few patches. More control over lich / sister weapons, more control over end of mission rewards (at least for holokeys), less totally useless endo rewards in tier c survival, etc.

[Danielw8]

2 minutes ago, Squick said:

There are certainly much worse games in terms of player advancement for time spent in game.

 

That being said, the grind for tenet melees is so bad I'm not going to do it. Ambassador takes so long you're better off running fissures to farm the plat to buy it. I'm not against some grind, but they really need to reduce some of the RNG in the last few patches. More control over lich / sister weapons, more control over end of mission rewards (at least for holokeys), less totally useless endo rewards in tier c survival, etc.

Did you try void storms with a decent squad. I was getting at least 40 every hour, i bought like 7 melee already.

[Slayer-.]

30 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

Did you try void storms with a decent squad. I was getting at least 40 every hour, i bought like 7 melee already.

What's the Valence Fusion percentage like with them, is it slow to get to 60%

[TheArmchairThinker]

11 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I mean that's debatable since Warframe offers a ton of things that are very similar to the farm/XP benefits you get from those items, but ultimately I agree with you for the part I highlighted. I played BDO (and other similar games) primarily for endgame pvp, and having those p2w items (or how they like to call it, pay to progress or pay for convenience) in a pvp environment feels a lot more unhealthy than it does in Warframe that is a 99% pve game. But let's not fool ourselves. If you were new to WF and had basically nothing, you could just swipe your credit card to get a bunch of stuff like meta frames, weapons, boosters, potatoes, vehicles, etc. You can even bypass MR restrictions with prime access and bundles afaik. That's as p2w as anything else, it's just no one cares because it's a pve game. 

There's a difference with paying in warframe, you don't get strong instantly like what this Tenno said

11 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

I've played game that started promising. Paid gear only offered like 5% bonus stat or so. Until the publisher grew impatient and introduced very OP "cosmetic" (with no level limitation whatsoever) in a lottery system. You get like 40000% stat boost with it and can one-punch a lvl 50 monster and tank their attacks with little to no damage at all with a lvl 1 character that's how stupid it was. 

Even if you swipe your credit card, there's no difference between bought one and grinded one in warframe, you only skip a little part of it which is a negligible grind to get the weapon (considering resources are littering the map every time you do a mission). Unless you can show me that you can one-hit kill level 50 infested (for their bare flesh and no armor for lowest bar) straight after you buy the item and no grinding involved, that doesn't fall into p2w area.

Meta frames and weapons don't make you instantly strong when you still need to get affinity or you end up with 0 capacity for mods, and mods to make the frame and weapon strong. Potatoes don't help when you still have 0 capacity from being new and have basically nothing to begin with and vehicles still need affinity to get more powerful so where's the part of winning there? Skipping the grind that everyone can do in a day or two, or casually doing it while playing the game? I don't think that's winning. Even if we bring PvP into this, gears you buy have no difference in stat so you don't have any advantage over free players compared to other games where paid items have increased stats compared to free ones

[Danielw8]

5 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

What's the Valence Fusion percentage like with them, is it slow to get to 60%

Slow? 3 of 4 those melee was aviable to buy with 50%+  in this rotation is agendus, day one exec? And another one with magnetic. If you call holokeys grindy and hard to get you are lost honestly, kuva lich and ambassador is heavy grind, not tenet weapons aviable in store

[Slayer-.]

16 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

Slow? 3 of 4 those melee was aviable to buy with 50%+  in this rotation is agendus, day one exec? And another one with magnetic. If you call holokeys grindy and hard to get you are lost honestly, kuva lich and ambassador is heavy grind, not tenet weapons aviable in store

Ok so you can keep an eye on the roll bonus, nice, I've done nothing with them yet.

[Danielw8]

4 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Ok so you can keep an eye on the roll bonus, nice, I've done nothing with them yet.

Exactly farm 40holo now for agendus

[-CdG-Zilchy]

17 hours ago, WingR84 said:

I just wonder what you do with all the multiple sets that you got while you farmed your primes. I got my plat from that, so i traded... it's not like i spend 1000 euro to skip something (that in case it kills content for me. and not for you..no clue why you attack me here again). 

i guess we could also argue if farming the same enemys on the same tilesets (space ships) is "new content" when you combine Railjack with survival. I just dislike doing the Railjack part to then have a teammate leave after 5 minutes of survival (that forces the whole group to leave) if you have to stay 20 minutes to even get the chance for the weaponpart.

Farming the Octavia part in the wrack was ok, because i could use the drops to builds the invested dojo weapons... but this railjack survival? Only if it would give me new stuff that i can use to craft bigger health or energy reg or something else that is worth my time.

----------

and by the way... i guess you missed the point where i complained about DE giving out stuff with Events that others farmed for (Arcanes from Orphix for example) or the time i spend hunting Malice and the others to gain my Argon Scope that now isnt hard to get anymore. Yes, this is one of the things that started my anger with DE and if you would read what i wrote you would also see how annoyed iam about them adding the new mods and arcanes on stuff that i just finished farming.

Why would i farm this again to get another adoptation or rolling guard? That is part of the plat that brouht me those new mods and arcanes. Same with the missing prime parts that i brought with drops that i got in the past or while farming for the new stuff.

Well.. seeing as they're fk all and I don't care about plat I sell them for ducats. 

Sounds to me like you just dislike a lot of the game. If that were me, I'd do the smart thing and find a game I do enjoy more parts of. 

By the way... I guess YOU missed the obvious sarcasm in my post that clearly a lot of other people understood. I have no sympathy for lazy players such as yourself mate. You're playing a farming simulator, if you don't like that, you should find another game that you do enjoy. But don't think for 1 second that you're owed anything for playing a Free2play game. Just... stop with that nonsense. You come across as entitled, maybe you are, maybe you aren't. But that's the persona that you're projecting to people on here.

[Krankbert]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

I have no sympathy for lazy players such as yourself mate.

It's a video game, mate. Nobody is lazy and nobody has any work to do.

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, WingR84 said:

and by the way... i guess you missed the point where i complained about DE giving out stuff with Events that others farmed for (Arcanes from Orphix for example) or the time i spend hunting Malice and the others to gain my Argon Scope that now isnt hard to get anymore. Yes, this is one of the things that started my anger with DE and if you would read what i wrote you would also see how annoyed iam about them adding the new mods and arcanes on stuff that i just finished farming.

So you started getting angry when DE made items more available through less niche content when your main complain is that player time isnt respected by DE? And why pinpoint Orphix as an easier way to obtain Arcanes? You need alot more more done to get to the point where you can actually do Orphix, since you need both the little bastard and the mech to access it. If anything you should have been fuming because of Scarlet Spear in that case.

I mean you are a walking talking paradox atm.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 2021-07-27 at 8:19 AM, WingR84 said:

I would like to ask you guys how you feel about some things in Warframe (mainly if you think that DE respects you and your time?),

Well OP, your asking the wrong players. Of course the majority of the players here will say “yes absolutely DE respects my time” or be completly passive about the question but the players you need to talk to are all the players that have left the game. And you probably won’t find them hanging out in this echo chamber called the WF forums. I will say more players have ultimately left rather than stayed and they might say “No DE doesn’t respect my time”; is probably all you need to know. 
 That said good luck in your quest to find the answers you’re looking for because you won’t find them here. 

[--END--Rikutatis]

18 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

P2W cannot exsist in PvE games because there is no one to win over.

 

9 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Even if you swipe your credit card, there's no difference between bought one and grinded one in warframe, you only skip a little part of it which is a negligible grind to get the weapon (considering resources are littering the map every time you do a mission).

I won't go into too much detail because this p2w discussion is already kinda off topic and a borderline semantic discussion at this point, but I disagree with you guys. There's no "official" industry definition for p2w, specially with how devs try to dillute the term, disguise the mechanics and rebrand it as something else more acceptable. But to me "p2w" or whatever the name is these days doesn't only relate to pvp. It feels way more unhealthy in pvp, but even in WF you'd still see people buy 50k plat god roll sniper rivens to 6x3 eidolons with them immediately after the tridolons released. I mean, who cares, I certainly don't, but that's definitely some sort of "winning" in the game. And even if I have to level the gear I bought with plat I still gained a TON of time, it isn't just the actual mission node grind, I bypassed MR restrictions and Star Chart progression that would probably take me weeks to get to by playing the game normally. And then I can just level that meta gear quickly (with the boosters I also bought) and steamroll the entire Star Chart effortlessly. 

I mean, Warframe as a game is designed and tuned around these microtransactions. Just like every other f2p game. The XP gain and loot drops are 100% tuned based on bosters of all kinds, the increasing forma requirements of recent gear definitely have a monetary reason to be as well. Same for low drop chances gated behind multiple rotations. They see sales going up when they do these things, and they need these sales to keep the business running. It is what it is. It just doesn't feel so bad in Warframe because you can farm plat in game, in other games you'd need real cash most of the time.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Well OP, your asking the wrong players. Of course the majority of the players here will say “yes absolutely DE respects my time” but the players you need to talk to are all the players that have left the game. And you probably won’t find them hanging out in this echo chamber called the WF forums. I will say more players have ultimately left rather than stayed and they would say “No DE doesn’t respect my time”; is probably all you need to know. 
 That said good luck in your quest to find the answers you’re looking for because you won’t find them here. 

I never said I think DE respects my time, I and many others said that it's ridiculous to expect them to do so.

[Sinekanter]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb (XBOX)YoungGunn82:

Well OP, your asking the wrong players. Of course the majority of the players here will say “yes absolutely DE respects my time” but the players you need to talk to are all the players that have left the game. And you probably won’t find them hanging out in this echo chamber called the WF forums. I will say more players have ultimately left rather than stayed and they might say “No DE doesn’t respect my time”; is probably all you need to know. 
 That said good luck in your quest to find the answers you’re looking for because you won’t find them here. 

And he won't find the answers with players who left either. Because after leaving it is always easier to just call the game company bad instead of admitting that maybe you chose the wrong game for yourself or felt entitled to something the devs don't owe you and quit when they didn't give it to you. 

Also, quite funny to call the forums an echo chamber when people constantly argue about the smallest things. Echo chamber has just become another buzz word to discredit the opinion of others, I guess.

[LillyRaccune]

This whole thread feels like a trap. The OP already revealed the entire basis of the thread was their fault. They chose not to personally watch TennoCon. They are just trying to cultivate animosity against the dev. Such behavior is against the guidelines (https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/).

The conversation is just deteriorating from here.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, Krankbert said:

It's a video game, mate. Nobody is lazy and nobody has any work to do.

While I understand what you're conveying it is still a loot shooter aka farming simulator so if you don't do the time you don't get the goodies.

[DarknessNightshade]

On 2021-07-27 at 4:19 PM, WingR84 said:

It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

Companion app is a thing, you can build and claim formas (and literally anything you can build in the foundry) on it and not have to login to warframe itself at all. All logins give you is unique primed mods, some cashes/sigils and a few weapons with infinite punchthrough.

Though it's lacking proper modding support and not serving much beyond being a reminder for planet cycles and quests, updates, hotfixes and stuff.

 

On 2021-07-27 at 4:19 PM, WingR84 said:

In the 2 part Warframe doku (on youtube) Rebecca said "Warframe needs to update fast to stay relevant".
I hope that you watch the doku about your own game again and try to remember that "how to keep users logged in" doesnt equal fun in gameplay.

Player retention is a problem all games face, regardless of game genre, there's many ways DE have combated this with daily login rewards, regular events with rewards you can't get elsewhere, new warframes every so often, new quests, etc. With COVID having taken way a lot of DE's freedoms to create stuff, they've been severely limited in what they can do, New War has supposedly been in development for nearly 2 years at this point.

While the battle pass (nightwave) and login rewards for quick rewards are nice, yeah it can get stale, because there's just so many items you have to grind per mastery rank, when collecting everything is the ultimate goal, it doesn't feel very rewarding vs time invested, where with MR 4 all you have to do is level up one warframe and a few weapons, if that, sitting at MR 25, every weapon maxed is just another notch on the rifle at this point, it doesn't feel as rewarding the longer you invest time into the actual core gameplay loop.

On 2021-07-27 at 4:19 PM, WingR84 said:

The new survival, that people join and leave after 5 or 10 minutes, but you need to stay 20 for the rare Ambassador parts but if SOMEONE wants to leave the whole party has to leave, so you have to do it solo or buy the weapon for plat.

This problem can just be solved by finding likeminded players in your clan or recruitment chat, not every player who jumps into a public lobby is gonna stay till late waves for rewards when all they want is the node cleared for mastery/achievement purposes.

On 2021-07-27 at 4:19 PM, WingR84 said:

I deleted frames like base Chroma once you released Chroma prime. The helminth system is nice, but why do i have to pay 100 000 stading to rebuy chroma or why do i have to refarm base Trinity if i mastered her 2 years ago?

The point is that simaris collects quest related objects people have deleted for slots or other such reasons early on, it'd be nice if those frames had a slot or weapon attached, but you gotta recognise DE is a company that has to make revenue, so you can either pay to skip the grind (a warframe is like £7 if you have a discount for me), or do the time to get the reward again.

It's not really meant to be something to increase player retention, but rather an option to those who might not be able to get those weapons and frames otherwise.

On 2021-07-27 at 4:19 PM, WingR84 said:

Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?

Again, this is a variation of "you can pay to skip the grind, or you can invest the time", not all builds need 5 forma to be viable, but usually for popular/powerful weapons, those are gonna be gated towards time spent anyway, if you could make a gamebreaking build right off the bat, I feel it'd be too easy, the liches especially need to be gated behind later missions, as early players get stuck with high level missions on a planet just cus they didn't know what they were getting into or thought "Ooo free weapon" when they stabbed their thrall.

DE does listen to feedback regarding forma though, as with Necramechs had their capacity changed somewhat to allow you to not have to forma every slot to fit a mod in each slot, they reduced the build time by an hour (which doesn't seem like much of an improvement but I'll take it), etc.

 

At the end of the day, how much time you invest into the game is up to you, DE is very (even moreso than most companies) with their free-to-play formula, though the core mastery rank loop definitely needs to be looked at to make it so 1) you either get more ranks, thus "feels" more rewarding per time invested, while nightwave exists to give you a secondary objective, it doesn't contribute much in terms of progression 2) add some sort of EXP consumable item so you don't have to jump into ESO for the 900th time just to get to rank up 210 times for one weapon.

[DarknessNightshade]

1 hour ago, LillyRaccune said:

This whole thread feels like a trap. The OP already revealed the entire basis of the thread was their fault. They chose not to personally watch TennoCon. They are just trying to cultivate animosity against the dev. Such behavior is against the guidelines (https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/).

The conversation is just deteriorating from here.

The actual comment was that they missed Tennocon and every given chance to watch it because "they were busy" with IRL stuff, and chose to make that a complaint.

While they might've missed an email, Warframe also has a Twitter, literally everyone partnered with warframe was reminding everyone about Tennocon, the game gave you an alert about Tennocon several weeks before it came about, literally everyone and their mom came to watch the stream (over 300,000 people watching at the same time), and somehow it's DE's fault that he can't get a gun for free they'll probably add to the game later on down the line (for free...), if you were in any way shape or form involved in the Warframe community, you would've been told at least once it was gonna happen.

I can understand about being upset about Loki Prime though, DE themselves promised they'd monitor the prime vault and see which frames were more sought after, which ones appeared less (Loki still hasn't been unvaulted for nearly 3 years at this point, the market price was pretty ridiculous for a time), and I've made comments elsewhere on it myself, though, and was the only non founder prime frame I was missing for years.

Though, I do agree with the statement that the thread should be closed, as there doesn't seem to be much healthy conversation going on.

 

[(PSN)Unstar]

Yeah this entire thread was a trap.  OP asked other Tenno about their opinions, and then when the opinions didn't match their own, OP decided to get hostile and in people's faces about it, including making personal attacks.  It's no surprise the thread is currently in the state it is, and it should have been closed long ago.