Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

While I understand what you're conveying it is still a loot shooter aka farming simulator so if you don't do the time you don't get the goodies.

But it is Leisure time, not Work time, there is big difference IMO.

Some of the posters here try to act as if DE owes them something for teh time they play.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

 

I won't go into too much detail because this p2w discussion is already kinda off topic and a borderline semantic discussion at this point, but I disagree with you guys. There's no "official" industry definition for p2w, specially with how devs try to dillute the term, disguise the mechanics and rebrand it as something else more acceptable. But to me "p2w" or whatever the name is these days doesn't only relate to pvp. It feels way more unhealthy in pvp, but even in WF you'd still see people buy 50k plat god roll sniper rivens to 6x3 eidolons with them immediately after the tridolons released. I mean, who cares, I certainly don't, but that's definitely some sort of "winning" in the game. And even if I have to level the gear I bought with plat I still gained a TON of time, it isn't just the actual mission node grind, I bypassed MR restrictions and Star Chart progression that would probably take me weeks to get to by playing the game normally. And then I can just level that meta gear quickly (with the boosters I also bought) and steamroll the entire Star Chart effortlessly. 

I mean, Warframe as a game is designed and tuned around these microtransactions. Just like every other f2p game. The XP gain and loot drops are 100% tuned based on bosters of all kinds, the increasing forma requirements of recent gear definitely have a monetary reason to be as well. Same for low drop chances gated behind multiple rotations. They see sales going up when they do these things, and they need these sales to keep the business running. It is what it is. It just doesn't feel so bad in Warframe because you can farm plat in game, in other games you'd need real cash most of the time.

Then your definition is wrong since it is a term that got coined to explain PvP monetization directly, because PvE terms simply didnt suffice. It was no longer about just progressing and skipping, it was suddenly about an actual advantage over other players in competative settings i.e PvP. And it is a quite official definition within the industry, it is just that the players apply it to nearly everything these days that involve in-game purchases.

None of what you talk about involves anything of a "winning" nature, so the actual PvE related terms that P2W originated from should be used.

[SenorClipClop]

I feel like generally, the idea of whether or not the game or its devs "respects me" already crosses some kind of line. It's putting too much of your own stakes and personal worth into... into a video game. Except as a joke or as part of an application to work for DE, I would never put "reached MR30 in Warframe" on a resume, as it's not really an accomplishment beyond personal interest and enjoyment in the game. I don't have a relationship with this game like it's some kind of living person, and I don't have a direct relationship with its creators. They just make something I like.

I feel like when someone starts taking for granted this idea of respect from a video game, at least on a personal level, it's time for a bit of self-reflection.

[Wolfdoggie]

As someone who wants Hydroid to be good; no, no I do not. I spent a lot of forma and Helminth resources trying but it's just out of my hands and requires their intervention to proceed further, but they refuse.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I only feel respected by DE when it disrespects other players. I only feel disrespected when other players feel respected. The inner conflict makes me feel alive! 

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

When it comes to time:

No, not really. The reason behind this is the amount of forma weapons, frames, and so on need just to be viable. That and the recent release of Yareli shows that they don't exactly care all that much about a player's time. Same goes for Sevagoth and Xaku. Sevagoth and Xaku both had decent kits, Xaku got even better after the tweaks to it. But it doesn't change that they need a lot of forma (around 3-4) just to make them viable.

If you don't buy their forma bundles, then you will have to wait 3-4 days just for the forma, which takes as long to build a Warframe itself in most cases. Then spend a long time farming xp for them to level them up. While I know it's more of an annoyance than anything else and it's trivialized mostly by playing Hydron or another map. It's just a constant annoyance that keeps getting more and more annoying as time goes one. Which is why I've stopped playing new frames when they come out and don't even bother considering to put forma on them. Same goes for the weapons.

The farming for some stuff is just unfair and more than just a bit annoying. 40 keys to get one weapon. that's 8 missions in Pluto and 7 in the Veil. In a Railjack (for some reason mine is so buggy I can't even play it without experiencing a crisp 20fps). The Ambassador is just a joke so far, or so I've been told. Galvanized mods are only for end-game players (so wasn't a gun buff).

However:

Is the game fun?

More often than not, yes, it is very fun. I enjoy doing the killing, I enjoy doing the sweet ninja moves and stuff.

I enjoy being able to customize my weapons (even though I am very much annoyed at the forma situation as there is basically never enough forma), Warframes, Necramechs, and so on. There is something for everyone in this game which is why I think it's gotten so much popular than other games like Destiny. It has a lot of customization, weapons, Frames, and things to do.

Farming can be made enjoyable at some points.

Ragdolls in this game can be amazing.

Gunplay is fun before and after the melee nerf.

That and the amazing time many Warframe players can have when playing with others. Socialize in clans.

So, when it comes to time, not really, but as a person who plays it a lot despite that, I feel respected in the ability that I can make choices all on my own without always having my hand held by someone. I can use whatever I get after I complete a quest whenever I want to and however I want to. If I waste it, it's on me.

Note:

I have no hatred towards the devs. While I may not like all the decisions they make, they're still trying, at least I think, to make a game that people can enjoy and make a place where people can talk and explore.

Notes 2:

I'm also a relatively new end game player, as I have played for around 3 years edging I believe on my 4th year. My main gripes aren't just about the issues I've faced but also the issues other, newer players or players who are midway through the game will face as time goes on. To me, it seems not to respect the time of the newer players or midgame players as much to little at all. While somewhat giving time to the endgame players who already have everything they need to succeed in their mission.

Mind you, that's not a bad thing, being prepared and all that, just feels like it's taking even more time for newer players to get to the status older players have now. I started around the time of The War Within, so there wasn't all these arcane farming from Eidolons, raids were still a thing, and the best thing in the world was my Tigiris Prime that deleted most enemies from the game just by sneezing at them. Nowadays there is so many things for new players that either they need to do or heavily imply they should do just to get to where I was when I first started the game. But this is just from experience and I can be wrong, not everyone plays the same way I do or enjoys what I enjoy. Which is why this game is so fun to play.
 

[SoulEchelon]

On 2021-07-27 at 8:45 AM, CurseOfFilth said:

Not after the way they tried to force k-drive into the game. It wasn't popular for a reason.

Rreeeeally? One series of optional sidequests for an optional warframe that you can instead just buy with plat by trading prime parts is forcing k-drive? The series of quests takes at MOST an hour. That too much time for you? Reeeeeeeeeeeeally?

 

Anyways, on topic:

 

Everything so far from the latest update hasn't been hard at all for me to obtain as an endgame player (MR30). Yes, having to redo missions to get the lich/sister to spawn with the weapon you want can get tedious, but right after you do get it, the recent lich/sister changes has made it much faster to farm them. Even adding the Railjack mission at the end hasn't extended it that much. Not to mention, the oull word is very, very helpful to make this even faster. Being able to force a lich/sister fight is also very useful. I've gotten one weapon a day, and that's been only playing for a small handful of hours here and there. Got all the tenet sister weapons without even hardcore-ing the game. With how powerful they are, I'm actually worried they're TOO easy to get.

Tenet melee weapons aren't as hard as the community said it was to get either. Yeah the holograph drops could do with a rework - maybe randomize the amount you get so you at least obtain some with each run. But it didn't take long for me and a friend of mine to get enough for a weapon. 

Galvanized mods, Arcanes, and the primary/secondary arcane adapters are also not that hard to get (again, as an endgame player, seeing as these are endgame items, that should go without saying). Steel Essence is very easy to get now. Just do your dailies. While doing the dailies, wait for acolytes to spawn. Bam - arcanes. Not getting the arcane you want? Trade the ones you don't want for the ones you do.

Arbitrations aren't that bad either. Go public, use your clan, have friends, or go it alone with a tanky frame. Keep in mind Galvanized mods are supposed to be the strongest stuff around for primary/secondaries, so they are going to require at least some effort in getting them. Still didn't take me long to get. I have all of them already, with very, very little time commitment and only a handful of arbitrations.

So yes, I feel with this update, DE does respect my time and effort. I've gotten everything I wanted so far, and know exactly how to get everything else. 

[WingR84]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb SoulEchelon:

So yes, I feel with this update, DE does respect my time and effort. I've gotten everything I wanted so far, and know exactly how to get everything else. 

And here we go again... the next person that worte a lot but ignored that my point is the forma grind and the problem that anytime they add a new sister/kuva weapon it will be harder to get because the pool is bigger.

 

Maybe i should add this as TL:DR

[SoulEchelon]

7 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

And here we go again... the next person that worte a lot but ignored that my point is the forma grind and the problem that anytime they add a new sister/kuva weapon it will be harder to get because the pool is bigger.

 

Maybe i should add this as TL:DR

A: I did point out that grinding progenitors for a specific weapon can be tedious. 

B: You asked everyone's thoughts about DE respecting the player's time in general. Just because you have no defense towards what I've pointed out doesn't suddenly mean none of it matters.

C: Forma drops like candy. I have a huge stock of it purely from doing anything relic related. It's also extremely cheap in the market. If by some crazy reason you can't get enough of it from farming relics, you can sell the relics you did get and buy them from there. Also, the kuva/tenet weapons don't need to be fully maxed out to have the best builds. You don't even need to max them out to get max rank. I've already perfected the builds of multiple of this update's kuva/tenet weapons and I don't even play that much.

This all just sounds like getting angry about grind in a game about grinding. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

31 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

And here we go again... the next person that worte a lot but ignored that my point is the forma grind and the problem that anytime they add a new sister/kuva weapon it will be harder to get because the pool is bigger.

 

Maybe i should add this as TL:DR

Or, you know, edit the title.

”Why forma makes me upset and why bigger numbers are bigger.”

[WingR84]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb SoulEchelon:

: Forma drops like candy. I have a huge stock of it purely from doing anything relic related. It's also extremely cheap in the market. If by some crazy reason you can't get enough of it from farming relics, you can sell the relics you did get and buy them from there.

Here is the funny thing.... this is my point.
The point is that DE makes it harder grind so you will spend plat over doing it by yourself.

Removing formas from Plaque Star while moving it to the invested planet is just one example...
And new players are low on forma, so they will have to buy plat forma to drain the marked from plat.
More and more unvaults... so the expensive items drop in price, so people BUY PLAT and then the items that they need.

 

Did you ever notice that the prices on consols are lower than on PC, because PC has more plat and that is why they pay you more than on consoles?
I'm selling all my stuff now... because the prices will drop more and more, but hey... if you dont understand it then it doesnt matter... just keep on doing what you doing.

I also have about 150 forma saved up, but for the new players Warframe will be like a mobile game with microtransactions... while they release a mobile client.
It's good to be wealthy in Warframe now, because the future will drain the plat out of the system and it will become harder and harder to get, while they will make more money than ever before... and you stand here clapping for it....

[Demoonic]

Yeah I mean, I've been playing for just under eight years without taking any substantial breaks, and always enjoy my time spent with the game. If you don't have fun playing a game then why bother with it?

[LillyRaccune]

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

Rreeeeally? One series of optional sidequests for an optional warframe that you can instead just buy with plat by trading prime parts is forcing k-drive? The series of quests takes at MOST an hour. That too much time for you? Reeeeeeeeeeeeally?

I read your post in Sheogorath's voice. It was awesome!

[Sinekanter]

Dude, you have been jumping back and forth between 'reasons' why you feel 'disrespected' by DE the entire time. One time its forma, then it is beeing forced to use K-Drive, then it is them not giving you promotional items after the event ended. As soon as you realize that people are calling you out for your bad reasoning, you latch onto another or even a new made up one. 

I never had issues with Forma. I started playing the game again on a new acount when I had nearly no money to spend on video games. So I farmed Forma via Relics. The game is easy enough that you can play it without using Forma until that option of getting it becomes available.

I get the feeling that you are just so used to throwing Plat at the game that the thought of actually working for ingame stuff seems unbearable to you.

[SoulEchelon]

57 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Here is the funny thing.... this is my point.
The point is that DE makes it harder grind so you will spend plat over doing it by yourself.

It's like you didn't even read. It's not hard to grind forma. At all.

Forma is from either bronze or silver tier in relics. If you're an endgame player, you should have a stockpile of relics by now and even if you don't, they're all easy to farm themselves.

You can trade stuff for plat easily. Here's a protip - you know those Ayatan sculptures you've been ignoring? Socket them and sell them. Very, very easy plat. I haven't put actual cash in the game for months, yet I'm sitting on about 1k plat just from randomly selling sculptures and prime parts every once in awhile.

If I remember correctly, you can get forma from Nightwave as well.

It seems DE actually did a bad thing when they released Plaguestar and allowed players to get forma so easily. You got spoiled rotten to the point that an incredibly easy to farm endgame resource is supposedly "hard to grind" now.

Oh, and also I like how suddenly you're going "OH BUT THE NEW PLAYERS!" when you SPECIFICALLY were talking about the late game. It's even in your freakin' title! New players can farm relics just as well as old players, and can easily get forma that way if they need it....which they generally won't if they're new and still doing the starchart. Seriously dude, forma is not hard to come by. Find another hill to die on.

[WingR84]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb SoulEchelon:

It's like you didn't even read. It's not hard to grind forma. At all.

Forma is from either bronze or silver tier in relics. If you're an endgame player, you should have a stockpile of relics by now and even if you don't, they're all easy to farm themselves.

No, i did read it, but you dont understand it

You are not limited by the forma BP but by the time you need to build them. If you are a new player that doesnt have 100+ forma saved up then you can forma 1 item per day OR you have to buy extra forma with plat.

How much plat people pay you in trades is limited to how much plat is in the system

In the future you and me will have our stock of forma and the plat we save up now... but new players will have a harder time saving up and will have to spend RL money to get plat... that is what will happen if we will not get more "finished forma" to drop (i think you can get them as a super rare drop on lua?)

We have:
19 Kuva weapons
8 Sister weapons
4 Weapons that you buy for holo keys
2 Mechs

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day and start to craft formas as it is... at it will get harder and harder.
This doesnt include the dojo weapons that also need 1 forma each, Forma for Warframe builds, basic weapons, the storyline weapons like the Paracesis and builds on Pets/sentinels.

And again: They removed the forma from the Plaque Star event... so please dont tell me that they know that they create a bottleneck here sp people buy forma with plat.

[SoulEchelon]

32 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

No, i did read it, but you dont understand it

 

Nope. You didn't read it. Wanna know why I know you didn't read it? Because you're stating things I've already given answers to multiple times. And quite frankly? I'm tired of dealing with someone who's too thick headed to read. And if you actually DID read it? Then you're the one who "dont understand it".

Continue dying on your hill.

[WingR84]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SoulEchelon:

I'm tired of dealing with someone who's too thick headed to read.

same here... i explained to you and you just dont get it. You talk nonsense that has noting to do with the thing that i'm talking about, because it's about the Formas and how this will effect the ingame economy.

 

You can build one forma per day and this limits players that dont have plat or saved up forma. You cant say "just sell prime stuff and buy it" because if anyone does this the supply of plat is the ingame economy will ruin prices, so you will have to sell 6 trash items to get 1 plat. Please explain to me how forma isnt the limiting factor.

If you have 19 kuva weapons you have a 5,26% chance for the last weapon that you need.
If they add 31 more weapons you have a 2% chance
Once they have 100 kuva weapons you have a chance of 1% to spawn the lich with the weapon that you want

Just because you say "i did it... and it wasnt that hard" has nothing to do with how it will become IF THEY ADD MORE WEAPONS to this system.
I'm talking about how it will become in the future... not how it is right now.

What do you think howmany runs you will need if they add 20 more sister weapons? How fast will you run out of tokens to open the portal?
We will hit korean MMORPG levels of grind, but at least we can trade those.... IF you can find one that sells you the new super rare weapon that anyone wants.

 

It's about how it will become in the future... not how it is right now

[LillyRaccune]

46 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

I've been pretty lazy. I don't forma my lich-sis weapons. Until I do, that means I'm only getting 3/4ths of the maximum mastery rank points out of them. I can live with that.

I'm not going to talk about Plaque Star. I wish the built formas would come back too.

Forma and time are DE's business model, their cash cow. As far as other business practices go, I think they are respecting our time. In fact, back in Update 27.3 (2020-03-24) DE changed the build time for formas from 24 hours down to 23 hours. That's a down-right nice thing they did!

It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

In previous posts I suggested that DE was not respectful of players, but that is only in relation some nerfs. Not the time/forma topic. Now that I think about it, DE gave me free forma when they nerfed Kuva Nukor. That was pretty sweet too! In that situation they definitely respected my time already invested into the Nukor.

5 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

Once they have 100 kuva weapons you have a chance of 1% to spawn the lich with the weapon that you want

Oh that. Well hopefully DE will come up with a solution to that, when it becomes a problem. Lots of players are already frustrated with it, they have made suggestions to combat that one part of the RNG. Who knows? Maybe DE will take their suggestions.

Until then, trying to rally discontent on purpose is not healthy. You could try to do what has been done in this post (below): make an essay, state the problem and potential solution. Then whenever there's a riot on the forums, you can just share the thread and have the comfort of a big "I told you so" essay that DE ignored for years.

Just like you, this player is concerned about the future of the game as more content gets added to it.

If you do decide to go the essay route, I suggest you consolidate your ideas into your opening post. Not many humans can bare to read through comments that may- or may-not have any new information to contribute.

[vegetosayajin]

3 hours ago, WingR84 said:

And here we go again... the next person that worte a lot but ignored that my point is the forma grind and the problem that anytime they add a new sister/kuva weapon it will be harder to get because the pool is bigger.

 

Maybe i should add this as TL:DR

This has nothing to do with respect, the game is made to make you play longer (like any game tbh).
It does it job perfectly.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

I'm not going to talk about Plaque Star. I wish the built formas would come back too.

This sounds interesting, is it a war to save the Tenno's teeth?

 Sorry Lilly I couldn't resist such a great typo 😛

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I think it's funny watching people say "the forums full of simps" "they don't respect us" etc cos you're all missing the real point and that is... Why the hell should we expect it?

[LillyRaccune]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

This sounds interesting, is it a war to save the Tenno's teeth?

 Sorry Lilly I couldn't resist such a great typo 😛

LOL! No worries. I'm actually doing it on purpose

When I first heard the name Plague Star I thought, "oh cool! There's an asteroid full of infested on a collision course for a planet. Time to be a hero!" After I started participating and learned it's just a recycled boss, I started complaining about it to my PS4 clan. On PS4 the auto-complete kept suggesting that I wanted the word plaque, so I just rolled with it.

Plaque Star is meant to be an affectionate insult. Like the kind you give to your least favourite uncle that keeps trying to be friendly at parties.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

LOL! No worries. I'm actually doing it on purpose

When I first heard the name Plague Star I thought, "oh cool! There's an asteroid full of infested on a collision course for a planet. Time to be a hero!" After I started participating and learned it's just a recycled boss, I started complaining about it to my PS4 clan. On PS4 the auto-complete kept suggesting that I wanted the word plaque, so I just rolled with it.

Plaque Star is meant to be an affectionate insult. Like the kind you give to your least favourite uncle that keeps trying to be friendly at parties.

Ha! Nice. Bonus points for the cute kitty. 😍

[Sinekanter]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

I think it's funny watching people say "the forums full of simps" "they don't respect us" etc cos you're all missing the real point and that is... Why the hell should we expect it?

In the end DE is not disrespecting us, they are expecting something from us-that we 'pay' for the service they provide either by time investment or with money. It is the most basic thing; a service is provided and you give something in return. But the mere thought of being expected to do something seems to be the issue here, if I see all these 'they expect me to wait!', 'they expect me to play the game!' posts in here.

If the service is not to your liking, you can leave, you are not legally bound to it.