Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, Sinekanter said:

In the end DE is not disrespecting us, they are expecting something from us-that we 'pay' for the service they provide either by time investment or with money. It is the most basic thing; a service is provided and you give something in return. But the mere thought of being expected to do something seems to be the issue here, if I see all these 'they expect me to wait!', 'they expect me to play the game!' posts in here.

If the service is not to your liking, you can leave, you are not legally bound to it.

 

Amen. And vice versa nobody has a gun to our head demanding we play their game. That's squarely on the shoulders of the OP and he's either too misguided or too proud to see/admit it

[Graavarg]

3 hours ago, WingR84 said:

...

If you are a new player that doesnt have 100+ forma saved up then you can forma 1 item per day OR you have to buy extra forma with plat.
...

We have:
19 Kuva weapons
8 Sister weapons
4 Weapons that you buy for holo keys
2 Mechs

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day and start to craft formas as it is... at it will get harder and harder.
This doesnt include the dojo weapons that also need 1 forma each, Forma for Warframe builds, basic weapons, the storyline weapons like the Paracesis and builds on Pets/sentinels.
...

You are kind of stating the point and missing it at the same time.

Warframe is going on it's 8th year, that is roughly 2500 possible Forma from "build one Forma a day". Your stated amount of 165 Forma is only a half year's play, doing "one Forma a day", which is available to everyone and everyone can also easily do, with a fairly small time investment (get relic - do void fissure - build in foundry).

The argument is about "time". Not about the time and effort spent in game play, but about the long-term investment in the game. Where so many games (and the IRL overall) focuses on instant gratification, Warframe and DE has kept the focus on longevity. Warframe is the game equivalent of the proverb that it is not the goal that matters, it is the road you travel to get there. And if you accept that premise you can get all the content in this glorious game completely free. But not "quickly".

Since we are all impatient and we all have real lives, stuff can be sped using money. At the same time DE/Warframe needs money to keep going. So from a philosophical viewpoint it is actually our impatience that keeps Warframe going. Paying for playing can't get any fairer than that. And unlike a lot of other game developers DE does not fall into the trap of maximizing profit by allowing players to buy "everything". If you want that you HAVE to play the game. As an old skool gamer (got started on a VIC-20) I truly respect that. So many good games and devs have been destroyed by "grofit".

What you seem to want (if I understand your post correctly) is a faster way forward in Warframe. What others have tried to point out is that your reasoning is wrong, that is not "Warframe". You are not alone, my guess is that most vets sitting on Forma, Nitain, Kuva etc. "stockpiles" have gone through this philosophical argument over and over: "is this really worth it". Those that are still playing the game have decided that it is. And that the sensible thing to do is use your game time to stockpile "stuff", over time.

The short version: making everything easier, faster or more "buyable" would destroy what Warframe have become over it's 8 years of beta (🙂). The "grind", while unbearable at times, is an inherent part both of the game itself and of the "Warframe experience" as a whole. Sometimes it is too easy, sometimes it seems senseless ("holokeys...  aaargh!").

If you like the game and accept that you will play Warframe on-and-off for years to come, you are also assured of getting "everything" and doing "everything". It just takes time, real world universal time, and a little effort.

[Butterfly85]

Play the damn game or don't. If a grind is too crappy for you, then don't do it.

It's free to play, of course DE are going to have things in place to monetise, but at least in this game EVERYTHING that advances mastery and progression is obtainable without spending a penny, if you're willing to work for it, or wait for it.

The only things that are strictly money only are some cosmetics.

How many other free to play games can say that?

[Keiyadan]

well the grind is nothing i regards of respect thats how the dev their game but the feeling to try to contact support / forums or any person that says he will take care about a problem and after years nothing happens that makes me kinda sad.

guess i need to spend more money to be heared or somehting likewise..

[DarknessNightshade]

9 hours ago, WingR84 said:

The point is that DE makes it harder grind so you will spend plat over doing it by yourself.

So...you're upset that a game company wants to make money from something you can spend time to get for free?

I'm not sure if you skimmed over my previous comment or not, but there are reasons behind what DE do and how they do it is up to them, and how much time you spend doing it is up to you.

It's free to play, you can get forma for free, you can choose not to grind and pay for the time skipped instead, which is how every fair free to play game operates.

I feel being respected for your time spent for the game is more a personal limit, sure the game company has to care about the players opinions to a certain extent, but not to the point they're answering to every whim and demand of said players, there's a line to be drawn.

I feel like if Forma is your primary issue with the game, make another thread, suggest a potential fix and why you think it'd benefit the game, "Is my time respected" is a very broad question and you won't get the feedback you want to that specific issue.

[GwinKyblood]

well well, i got all formas 4free 
i dont need use them in meme weapons or build every single new weapon xDDDD so i saved many for sisters weapons xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Zimzala]

9 hours ago, WingR84 said:

It's about how it will become in the future... not how it is right now

Some of us prefer to live in the current reality and live in the now.

The future is uncertain and tomorrow is not guaranteed.

9 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I think it's funny watching people say "the forums full of simps" "they don't respect us" etc cos you're all missing the real point and that is... Why the hell should we expect it?

The mere fact so many posters think the 'simp' thing has value shows me their POVs are worthless, to be honest, that's schoolyard level llama drama from people who think attacking someone's sexuality is 'an argument' to support their case.

[Angwah]

For the most part, yes, I do feel DE respects player time investment. Generally speaking the grind in Warframe, compared to other MMO-variants is actually pretty light. There is a caveat however, it is light on average and too prone to becoming frustrating, but that has little to nothing to do with the late-game unlocks, forma and whatnot. 

By now I have been subjected to all the grinds the game has to offer, many more than once (looking at you, Helminth!) though none of what I will say needs this sort of gameplay experience as it has all been discussed here many times. If you stick with the game forma you basically get for free while doing stuff you were going to do anyway. You are going to crack eggs and get the blueprints. You are going to trade and/or buy plat, at the very least for slots. A bundle of pre-built forma are cheap if at some point your 1/day stock runs dry and for whatever reason you absolutely refuse to wait. 

This is in no way disrespecting you. The game is pretty upfront about being pay-to-skip. Except, you don't even to use real-life money for that, which is pretty generous in its genre.

However, while some grinds have been shortened, it also can not be denied that as the game grows older, the time-investment asked from new players has grown as well. Unlike other MMO type games the amount of time between utter noob to end-game has not really been recalibrated, nor is there gear/leveling/whatever threadmill to periodically 'reset' the playing field. Stuff just keeps getting added, layer after layer.

The amount of super-high capacity mods is ever-increasing, so they need more formas and endo. There are arcanes for everything. There is Helminth. There is focus schools. All of this stuff, including the weapons worth having is locked behind max rank in syndicates or game modes such as Arbitrations, Liches, SP or RJ, which take time to access in the first place, let alone 'farm' and gear up in.

In short, unless you find yourself a good Clan, leaving solo is utterly pointless if you want to find a game where you can contribute something beyond your mere presence spawning more enemies/affinity, not making them wait at the extraction point or bringing an extra egg to crack, and it will be like that for a long, long time. And actually at the point where you could contribute something to a public squad, well, all you'll care about is their eggs, their presence spawning more enemies/affinity and not having to wait at the extraction point. 

Which leads to the following unpopular opinion: DE respects player time too much. It prevents them from making necessary changes. 

Also can't be denied that the game really does have too many are badly implemented RNG grinds, i.e. odds too low, time required to roll on the table too high and/or sequential layers of RNG. The overwhelming majority of these also boil down to running a single mission repeatedly. Of course, RNG being RNG there will always be uncooperative loot-tables, especially in the aforementioned badly implemented RNG where you end up with an entire evening of play-time ad nauseam repeating the same mission and having made zero progress because either the odds are too low or the time it takes to get a roll is too high. Yes, at those times it feels like the game has wasted your time, even if in the long run it evens out and you'll get lucky breaks. Kuva larvlings are another example of a system has broken down with the expanded loot table and the odds getting too low. The variance is insane, from minutes to an hour or more, just to establish the Lich's weapon and start the hunt. 

Would definitely not say no to more grinds with 'progress bars' systems (tokens/rep/whatever else) instead of RNG which can and at some point will leave on the wrong extreme of the distribution curve.

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, WingR84 said:

You are not limited by the forma BP but by the time you need to build them. If you are a new player that doesnt have 100+ forma saved up then you can forma 1 item per day OR you have to buy extra forma with plat.

A new player should not spend forma on things in the first place, so your point is moot. There is zero reason to spend forma on anything that early on. By the time a new player should consider spending forma they have a big enough pile saved up. Main focus early on is simply mastering things and progressing, you dont need things to have forma in order to do that. At most you spend a few on one certain loudout for when you are going to farm anything, and at that point you wont have many high cost mods either to consider.

[Squick]

On 2021-07-28 at 9:11 PM, Danielw8 said:

Did you try void storms with a decent squad. I was getting at least 40 every hour, i bought like 7 melee already.

 

The only way you were getting 40 in an hour was with absolutely insane luck. I've done over 20 runs and I managed to get a single drop of holokeys, so I'm just not doing that grind.

[3rdpig]

I don't remember ever asking DE to respect me or my time and I doubt at any point they told me they did. For me Warframe is a time sink, a form of escapist fare. Getting things too quickly means I'll run out of reasons to play and I'll need to find a new time sink. While there are times that I feel that DE makes acquiring new items too slow or the process too onerous, in most cases they've given me an out, I can pony up some money and get it right now. But each time I do that I end up with the feeling of "Look how much play time I just stole from myself" and promise never to do it again. 

It's kind of like eating dinner too fast when I was a kid. I could be done in a few minutes and everyone else took much longer. Dad wouldn't let me leave the table so I'd have to sit there with nothing to do until everyone was done. I learned to eat slowly if for no other reason than to control the boredom.

[Tsukinoki]

14 hours ago, WingR84 said:

Just because you say "i did it... and it wasnt that hard" has nothing to do with how it will become IF THEY ADD MORE WEAPONS to this system.
I'm talking about how it will become in the future... not how it is right now.

What do you think howmany runs you will need if they add 20 more sister weapons? How fast will you run out of tokens to open the portal?
We will hit korean MMORPG levels of grind, but at least we can trade those.... IF you can find one that sells you the new super rare weapon that anyone wants.

So basically you want to now change this thread into full on slippery slope fear mongering instead of actual reasoning?
Seriously?

You're all over the place.
And you are seriously trying to throw a lot of this onto the argument of "BUT THINK OF THE NEW PLAYERS!!!!!"?
I mean honestly new players don't have to even think about the "problems" you are coming up with for a long time.  And once they are looking at the "problems" you are facing, guess what?  They will have had time to build forma and farm resources and everything else.
Its not like a "new" player is going out and farming sisters and liches and panicing over hundreds of forma.

 

Also your comment on "how fast will you run out of tokens to open the portal?" shows how disconnected from reality you are.
In reality you will never run out of the tokens.
Why?  Because if you run the portal on Pluto you will have the token guy spawn in the mission (100% guarantee of him spawning BTW) giving you the same token you just spent.
If you spend one token to open the void and get one token later in the mission you have a net loss of zero tokens....meaning you can keep that up literally forever without worrying about running out of the tokens.....but you would only know that if you've actually sat down and tried to play through seriously instead of this fear mongering and coming up with reasons why you are being "disrespected".

[Danielw8]

8 hours ago, Squick said:

 

The only way you were getting 40 in an hour was with absolutely insane luck. I've done over 20 runs and I managed to get a single drop of holokeys, so I'm just not doing that grind.

 

I exactly dont know, but makes a huge difference solo/random squads vs something decent. This is what i have at this moment

Tenet Exec: 48% Toxin                   
Tenet Grigori: 59% Electric             
Tenet Livia: 46% Heat                   
Tenet Agendus: 58% Heat             

And being super honest i went all in to sisters content (and i have all weapons with 60%),  whatever you see there are like 5  hours of gameplay or something.

As an example doing duos with a clanmate, we did 2/2.30 min runs.. when i play with randoms my runs are 5 or 6 min, this means my chance to get holokeys compared to general players are double or triple.

PD: Im not good doing speedruns, also consider having an active/efficient gameplay makes a huge difference, just an example, i see many randoms playing inaros/tanky warframes and killing with melee for void traces in railjack missions

[TheArmchairThinker]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

In reality you will never run out of the tokens.

In fact, you can end up having more. Sister mission node on corpus ship will guarantee a treasurer with Zenith Granum Crown so you do them and you end up having a surplus of it, provided you don't do the Granum Void with it right away

[Slayer-.]

10 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

In fact, you can end up having more. Sister mission node on corpus ship will guarantee a treasurer with Zenith Granum Crown so you do them and you end up having a surplus of it, provided you don't do the Granum Void with it right away

I have that many Zenith Granum Crowns I'll never run out, everytime when I was on a higher Corpus ship I'd kill the Treasure for the spoils, guess I was a forward thinker by doing that, now I'm swimming in them. 

[Tsukinoki]

34 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

In fact, you can end up having more. Sister mission node on corpus ship will guarantee a treasurer with Zenith Granum Crown so you do them and you end up having a surplus of it, provided you don't do the Granum Void with it right away

Yep.

If you're engaged with the sister system then its a functionally infinite resource that will never go away.
You have to be purposefully avoiding the treasurer in order to run out of the Zenith crowns...which is 100% on the player for letting it get to that point.

It just shows how the OP is just hear to doom and gloom and fear monger about a slippery slope....and for no real clear reason why since his reasoning changes so often in this thread.

[Graavarg]

To me it seems pretty clear that what DE actually tried to achieve with the lich/sisters system change was to increase co-op play. This includes introducing the new "end mission", which was put in Railjack space.

And after having run X sisters and lichs I think the new system also delivers. Co-op for the normal lich/sister "grind" play has increased dramatically, and it is quite uncommon to have to do the final mission alone. You can still run the mission solo if you prefer, but currently co-op is generally better. So from an "enabling co-op" viewpoint the changes have been an outstanding success.

A lot of comments seem to miss that the new "end mission" nodes are part of this new system, not a made-up addition "forcing us to use Railjack" or an extra mission "forcing us to grind more". It's main purpose is to simply allow us to take down lichs/sisters together. Of course it could have been a new "starmap node" instead, but since lichs and sisters hang out on starmap planets during the grind phase I think it makes sense to put the final mission somewhere else, and since this is a space ninja co-op game and Railjack space is currently "under development"... 

[Aquapisces]

At least they upgrade and fix bugs.

[Keiyadan]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Aquapisces:

At least they upgrade and fix bugs.

they upgrade i still waiting for bug fixes that a years in the game and tryed everything to make them know but well

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

On 2021-07-27 at 8:19 AM, WingR84 said:

TL:DR  (so you can catch up without reading every posting)

The Kuva/Sisters weapons need 5 forma each to get to level 40
DE removed the formas from Plague Star when they moved it to the invested planet

Anytime they will add another weapon to the Kuva/Sisters system the chances that you roll this one weapon and can spawn it becomes lower and lower, while we need more and more forma (mechs and railjack just as another example).

Adding the 4 parts Ambassador drop in a C rotation of railjack survival is a big waste of time (if you ask me)
I wonder if the future weapons that are mainly there for older players to get more MR will become more and more grindy like this (same as before.... just lower dropchance with doing railjack first).

I enjoy the game, but i start to feel that they think that "make stuff take longer to get" = more content and i feel disrespected by this
I would bet that we will get Mech/Archgun arcanes from Railjack Orphix in the future, because nobody plays it... so they will create a grindy reason for us to play it

 

Why is this a problem?

We have:
19 Kuva weapons
8 Sister weapons
4 Weapons that you buy for holo keys
2 Mechs

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day and start to craft formas as it is... at it will get harder and harder.
This doesnt include the dojo weapons that also need 1 forma each, Forma for Warframe builds, basic weapons, the storyline weapons like the Paracesis and builds on Pets/sentinels.

And again: They removed the forma from the Plaque Star event... so please dont tell me that they know that they create a bottleneck here sp people buy forma with plat. This part doesnt effect old players that have lots of plat and forma saved up, but new players will need to spend plat on forma, because they are limited to building 1 forma per day. All this is going on while they work on a mobile client (and we all know how free microtransaction games on mobile work... "if you want to play.. just use some premium or wait till the timer is done". Before it was fair but i dont like where this is going. I have plat and forma saved up... but new players will buy or suffer. I think those changes have been made to drain the plat pool and make people spend more money to buy plat.

 

 

For me (as a player that deleted basic frames once he got the primes) I also started to get really mad once i noticed that i have to pay 100 000 standing to cephalon simaris if i want another chroma that i need for the helminth system. This doesnt effect anyone and YES i could "just do a 2 hour survival and scan those targets to get lots of standing" but this isnt the average player... i just feel that Warframe goes into the direction of "lets see how much plat we can get our players to spend to skip things, if we just make it annoying enoth".

 

----------------------

Original Post:
Hi,

I would like to ask you guys how you feel about some things in Warframe (mainly if you think that DE respects you and your time?), but let me first tell you where I'm at right now:

I started to play Warframe about 3 years ago and took a 1 year "break" where i just did the quests and non prime stuff.
With this update I farmed up and spend some plat on the things that didnt drop... now I only miss the the Ambassador, 2 holokey weapons and the new arcanes that are not the "melee kills give you primary damage".
I could do the Legendary 1 test, but I think I should wait for the price of the "kills up primary damage" arcanes and then it should be easy (why hurry?).

I enjoy playing melee Oberon (phoenix helps to see if people are failing and if we should leave) in survival
I play Mesa on open worlds and in defence
I play a lot of Frost in defence and excavation

Waiting for Baruuk and hildryn prime
-------------

Lets talk about the "problems" that warframe has and why i feel unhappy even while having fun:  (i really wonder how people see it. please also tell us your MR so we see how much of the grind you've done. What didnt you do and why?)

 

RAILJACK:
Coming back i somehow like but also dislike the new Railjack system, because it's just "do the same stuff that you did since you started to play the game... but now you have to kill ships before you can do the normal mission AND if someone leaves it will mess things up.
The new survival, that people join and leave after 5 or 10 minutes, but you need to stay 20 for the rare Ambassador parts but if SOMEONE wants to leave the whole party has to leave, so you have to do it solo or buy the weapon for plat.

I changed some things about my builds and with 700 energy, arcane energize and with the "prothea mana bubble dispencer" from the helminth system.. the seekers come out well.
The problem that i noticed is that with the pilot and one person in the big gun... the other two almost never both do the 2 stations. If we have someone on the big gun... most of the time i solo both before the other 3 are even done with killing the ships.
I'm not bragging here i just want to give feedback here, because if the pilot and the gunner dont fire seekers even 3 people are super slow and to go "out and back in" to kill the radiators isnt fun and i think that's why most people dont want to do it and camp in the railjack.

LICHS:
I liked the new sisters and their weapons, but i got really mad once i ran out of those tokens to open the portals to get the last weapon that i needed. It does feel A LOT better than the Corpus Lichs, but i cant get over if you didnt pick up the tokens you will have problems in the future... and i'm sure they will release more weapons, so the chance that you will get the last needed weapon will get lower and lower. And i've seen people complaining about having to do 100+ runs for one Kuva weapon, so how do you feel about farming up those tokens if you dont need to do anything that would spawn the guy that drops them?
The big problem here is that people that are coming back have to play basic missions again to get the tokens... but new players dont, because they had the chance to pick them up while going from MR1-MR30.

Can someone people explain me why i:
1) need to farm something to open a portal
2) do a mission
3) have a spawn with a weaponchance
4) farm/get the symbols (that come from random drops from requiem relics)
5) fail over and over till you got the right symbols
6) to then go on a railjack mission to kill something
7) to then use 5 forma to level the item 5 times to reach level 40.

This isnt only a long text... that is what you do without thinking about it and in the end i couldnt do more than 2 lichs per day, because it sucked the life out of me.

The Forma "problem":
Did you notice their new love for "forma this 5 times to get max MR exp" and "forma this many times or you cant get a build on it"?
I was somehow lazy and didnt forma many things, so i have about 100 forma saved up, but i'm out of forma BPs and now i have to open relics just to farm them AND login every day to build them.
It's not that big of a deal to login every day, because i dont really have to play, but the way DE forces me to login to push their steam numbers

 

Do you feel respected by DE here?
-Farming 5 forma BPs takes time
-Building them takes you about 5 days... and then you dont use the weapon anymore, because you level up the nextone
 

I guess we will get a lot more of those "level to 40" weapons in the future (because of the points that mods need) and you better make sure that you stock up on forma BPs and login every day to build them.

My problem isnt that i dont like playing Warframe: I had fun playing Frost on excavations today and i enjoy Jailjack with a good group.
The problem that i see is that i feel that DE doesnt want me to enjoy the game but to go and play "Rocky Hoverboard pro skater" while Youtubers start to leave the game and people say "they're burned out". You CAN play for free but i feel people dont delete their lvl40 weapons and primes, so lvl40 weapons = more plat spend on slots and the forma drain also brings money if people buy Forma OR you spend time farming Forma BPs and hope that a voidfisher/storm that you enjoy is up.

The bugged Arbi galvanized mods are nice...  i like the new arcanes, but what about:
-More base engergy, life, armor, base combo and other things if you skill your operator (will we ever get more operator skills?)
-Give me something that i can finally jump into those bubbles and ignore nullifiers. (please give us some tech like that in the new war. You cant use many frames without energy or their skills, so why is this a thing in lategame?)

 

In the 2 part Warframe doku (on youtube) Rebecca said "Warframe needs to update fast to stay relevant".
I hope that you watch the doku about your own game again and try to remember that "how to keep users logged in" doesnt equal fun in gameplay.

Oh... and one more thing:
I deleted frames like base Chroma once you released Chroma prime. The helminth system is nice, but why do i have to pay 100 000 stading to rebuy chroma or why do i have to refarm base Trinity if i mastered her 2 years ago? I farmed that stupid encounter 70-100 times (took me 2 months with 2-4 fights per day), because the systems didnt want to drop.... it was traumatizing and i dont want to do it again! The way you try to make me replay old stuff is what makes me feel that you dont respect your players time anymore (that was one of the points of "SkillUp". How can a prime part be more easy to get than a normal version? Just let me feed primes to helminth...

Once again: Just because you make me replay old stuff again to get usertime on steam.... doesnt mean that i enjoy the content. I really hope that the fight against the Sentients will come soon (2 more nightwaves i guess?!?)

A question to ask is: would I recommend this game to friends and family members?

The answer is an equivocal no. Warframe is a constant, endless grind that is meant to give content artificial longevity. The game does not respect me nor my time. There are other games, shows, and forms of entertainment that respects my time while DE and Warframe do not.

Since someone already used FF14 as an example, I will add another example of my own of a company who respects me and my time:
 

 

[Berserkerkitten]

Eeeeeh. You know? Eh. I don't care about MR. I'm not interested in owning and maxing out every single item in the entire game. I use and upgrade the weapons and 'frames I like, I play the content I enjoy and that's that. I've completed the story content that's there so far, I can hold my own in Steel Path, I've got a decent mech and railjack, and if I absolutely, desperately wanted to, I suppose I could grind out liches or sisters for specific weapons. But I don't have to, so I'm happy. I think I'd go insane if I felt the need to 100% everything. I like Warframe, but I don't need it to replace my life.

[Strelgar]

If you feel disrespected by the way something is being provided for you, then you also feel entitled. 

[(XBOX)Madinogi]

Only Game i have ever felt absolutely Disrespected by its developers. 

is Destiny 2. 

 

Bungie HATES their playerbase, so much so they introduced the WORST system ever concieved in gaming imo. 

Sunsetting. that crap pissed me off so much, and even to this day the game is suffering horribly from the effects of its implentation even tho its been removed Months ago. (Mostly)

[NecroPed]

Just now, (XBOX)Madinogi said:

Only Game i have ever felt absolutely Disrespected by its developers. 

is Destiny 2. 

 

Bungie HATES their playerbase, so much so they introduced the WORST system ever concieved in gaming imo. 

Sunsetting. that crap pissed me off so much, and even to this day the game is suffering horribly from the effects of its implentation even tho its been removed Months ago. (Mostly)

I got issues with destiny that I wont get into but there are many developers out there who don't respect their players.

EA removed single player games from my library because they were no longer supported after not being able to launch them due to origin literally stopping it from launching, disabling their launcher made it work for a day before they removed it after support tried to get me to format and buy new hardware and would not refund my purchase. 

Bioware made SWTOR f2p and locked 90% of my earnt currency (earnt while subscribing) behind a paywall and removed a large amount of paid stuff from my account when making it a free account, with no ability to contact support at the time without being a paid subscriber (unless I wanted to wait 4-6 hours on the phone from Australia to the USA).

We honestly have it pretty damn good here as far as free to play games go, and even compared to a lot of paid games. 

[(XBOX)LonelyRanker]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Madinogi said:

Only Game i have ever felt absolutely Disrespected by its developers. 

is Destiny 2. 

 

Bungie HATES their playerbase, so much so they introduced the WORST system ever concieved in gaming imo. 

Sunsetting. that crap pissed me off so much, and even to this day the game is suffering horribly from the effects of its implentation even tho its been removed Months ago. (Mostly)

go on youtube and lookup warframe rebecca calls players losers, or lookup the montages of her laughing at other players lifes, its really messed up but really funny to the point sometimes its an accident and other times its just not even held back