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Kuva Chakkhurr Too many Negatives


Drasiel
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The kuva chakkhur is a neat weapon, potentially it has a lot power with really high crit chance, decent status, high damage, bonus damage on headshot, and small aoe damage. However it has so many negatives that it's hard to deal with.

Negatives:

  1. It's a rifle despite behaving like a sniper: low zoom, no innate punch-through and no additional bonus' for multiple shots
    1. I acknowledge that the small aoe can make up for the punch through in certain situations.
  2. Despite being a rifle it uses special ammo and has a tiny pool (11mag 55 pool)
  3. The longest reload of any semi auto rifle (almost an entire second longer than the next runner up: latron)
  4. Slow fire rate and massive recoil (slowest fire rate of every semi auto rifle)
  5. It's a projectile weapon. Yes you heard that right the hyper focused on headshots slow ponderous monster that is the chakkhur is using a projectile, meaning any spazzing out of the enemy you have lined up your shot on ruins it.

This is a mastery 15 kuva weapon of an under utilized weapon class why does it need so many negatives? I can live with most of it but I'd really like to see a couple minor buffs: Leave the ammo pool small but let it use rifle ammo and please make it hitscan.

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Well chakkhurr is my favorite rifle now. I completely disagree with you.

1. It has AoE. It doesn’t need punc-through, or it will brake it’s aoe  ability.

2. Low ammo pull+special ammo type is DE way to crouch strong weapons. Use mutators mods, this gun cries loud about wanting to have Vigilante Supplies in its exilus slot. 

3. That’s pity, true. But it’s fair imo.

4. It’s created perfectly  for Internal Bleeding.

5. I was using +Projectile speed in riven + mod. And it is almost 0 difference. Of course you won’t snipe on 150 meters, but you can hit heads at 50 meters easily .

You just not build it right. It’s not sniper rifle, it’s solid medium-close range rifle with great crowd controls and slash procs. I actually like using it with Heavy Caliber, killing trash crowds in Steel Path with few shots, sniping heads to heavies after.

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49 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

Well chakkhurr is my favorite rifle now. I completely disagree with you.

1. It has AoE. It doesn’t need punc-through, or it will brake it’s aoe  ability.

2. Low ammo pull+special ammo type is DE way to crouch strong weapons. Use mutators mods, this gun cries loud about wanting to have Vigilante Supplies in its exilus slot. 

3. That’s pity, true. But it’s fair imo.

4. It’s created perfectly  for Internal Bleeding.

5. I was using +Projectile speed in riven + mod. And it is almost 0 difference. Of course you won’t snipe on 150 meters, but you can hit heads at 50 meters easily .

You just not build it right. It’s not sniper rifle, it’s solid medium-close range rifle with great crowd controls and slash procs. I actually like using it with Heavy Caliber, killing trash crowds in Steel Path with few shots, sniping heads to heavies after.

It behaves like a sniper rifle with out the class advantages for that type of weapon and all of the downsides. It was never created for internal bleeding as the mod didn't exist when the stats were set for this gun, it's a happy accident at best that it works with it and you'd probably still get better functionality out of hunter munitions because the crit rate reaches over 100% and the gun doesn't have forced impact procs.

Riven's should not be taken into account for the balancing of a weapon. Sure you can hit enemies for headshots at 50m if the ai doesn't decide they need to swap directions back and forth randomly the second you hit fire. This is a precision weapon focused on headshots making it a projectile instead of hitscan is a weird decision at best and self sabotage of the weapon's purpose at worst.

I'm not saying it's a bad weapon, I wouldn't be making a post if I didn't like it, I'm saying it's not good enough for it's mastery level, difficulty to obtain, and weapon category.

Would making the weapon hitscan suddenly make it the best primary to choose? would anyone except weirdos like us who like to aim at enemies use it over the Vastly more powerful and easier to use explosives that proliferate at high end play? No neither of my suggested changes would do that, all it would do is make it slightly more enjoyable to use the weapon. Why wouldn't you at least want it to be hitscan?

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15 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

That problem is the class and their role more than the Chakkurr.

This is the truth.

Rifles (semi and auto) are in a really bad place within ranged gameplay. AOE has bypassed all other weapons so significantly that decent semi/auto rifles are pretty basic by comparison.

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5 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's got too many negatives.  And it's got about double the DPS of the next best semiauto rifle.  Plus AoE.

That problem is the class and their role more than the Chakkurr.

You are correct that it has double the base damage of the next highest damage rifle: the Grinlock. However, it's pretty damn important to point out that the mastery level of the grinlock is 7 Half of the chakkhurr's mastery.

If you are comparing the chakhuur to explosives and "bow" weapons it comes 26th in base damage.

Would allowing the Chakkhurr  to be hitscan unbalance this gun?

 

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1 hour ago, SpiritTeA said:

2. Low ammo pull+special ammo type is DE way to crouch strong weapons. Use mutators mods, this gun cries loud about wanting to have Vigilante Supplies in its exilus slot. 

Or just Carrier... well I use Carrier for 99% stuffs.

1 hour ago, SpiritTeA said:

1. It has AoE. It doesn’t need punc-through, or it will brake it’s aoe  ability.

I would say this but it doesn't always explode (or it's not visible?). I don't know what causes it. Things like sonicor has huge, visible and guaranteed explosions.

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51 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

It was never created for internal bleeding as the mod didn't exist when the stats were set for this gun, it's a happy accident at best that it works with it and you'd probably still get better functionality out of hunter munitions because the crit rate reaches over 100% and the gun doesn't have forced impact procs.

When did this change happen? Last I used it the gun has force impact procs on both shot and aoe. With Internal Bleeding and old SChamber it almost always caused atleast one good sized bleed proc per shot. Was the whole reason I used it most when I first tried SP. Now it should be even more insane with GChamber and Arcanes.

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one of the coolest primary reload animations in the game however sometimes doesn't seem to work so I press the mouse button twice to confirm the reload(this is bad for my repetitive strain injury)

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1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

it's a happy accident at best that it works with it and you'd probably still get better functionality out of hunter munitions because the crit rate reaches over 100% and the gun doesn't have forced impact procs.

This is false, there is guaranteed impact procs on both hit and explosion as the fire rate is under 2.5 that is two 70% chances at a slash proc but sure, use HM if you want lol.

Both hit and explosion also roll status separately, so a base gun with only internal bleeding and say 60/60 toxin and cold can get 2 impact procs, 2 slash procs and 2 viral procs per hit.

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19 minutes ago, quxier said:

Or just Carrier... well I use Carrier for 99% stuffs.

I would say this but it doesn't always explode (or it's not visible?). I don't know what causes it. Things like sonicor has huge, visible and guaranteed explosions.

It does not appear to have a visual explosion, all I've ever seen is damage numbers pop up nearby. I'd actually argue it's a plus that there isn't a giant flash of particles blocking everything from sight but it does make it harder to tell what's going on with it.

12 minutes ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

When did this change happen? Last I used it the gun has force impact procs on both shot and aoe. With Internal Bleeding and old SChamber it almost always caused atleast one good sized bleed proc per shot. Was the whole reason I used it most when I first tried SP. Now it should be even more insane with GChamber and Arcanes.

 

Just now, L3512 said:

This is false, there is guaranteed impact procs on both hit and explosion as the fire rate is under 2.5 that is two 70% chances at a slash proc but sure, use HM if you want lol.

Both hit and explosion also roll status separately, so a base gun with only internal bleeding and say 60/60 toxin and cold can get 2 impact procs, 2 slash procs and 2 viral procs per hit.

All right I guess I'm wrong. Wish information was like this was easier to learn in game.

None of this changes that the Chakkhur is strong but grossly unwieldy for a rifle and on the weak end for a launcher. Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if it was hitscan?

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I honestly love the chakurr, its one of my favourite weapons. I love that it's a projectile based rifle that behaves kinda like a sniper. If it were hitscan I wouldn't really like it.

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2 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

None of this changes that the Chakkhur is strong but grossly unwieldy for a rifle and on the weak end for a launcher. Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if it was hitscan?

 

I do like it but it is in a unique position for sure. It's like DE made a pretty powerful rifle with more than a few downsides for fear of it being OP, so the end result is a pseudo sniper without the benefits of that class, TOF, mini launcher with slow reload. Saying that it is  pretty fun to use personally.

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44 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

It does not appear to have a visual explosion, all I've ever seen is damage numbers pop up nearby. I'd actually argue it's a plus that there isn't a giant flash of particles blocking everything from sight but it does make it harder to tell what's going on with it.

But do you get this effect all the time (explosion)?

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I used the Chakkhurr as my primary weapon for a long time. If you have it modded well, try equipping it on Wukong (Prime), summoning the twin and seeing if you can get to any enemies with melee before the twin takes them out 😁. With 100 accuracy the twin seldom misses, even though it's projectile. Also great for dealing with the flying enemies in PoE. You'll hear the warp in sound, hear the twin fire and hear the death sound before you've even worked out which way they are coming from!

 

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1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

You are correct that it has double the base damage of the next highest damage rifle: the Grinlock.

Actually I was comparing sustained DPS vs. the P. Grinny.  The difference in base damage is more pronounced--I'm guessing you're not accounting for the target getting hit by both the projectile and its AoE?

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

Would allowing the Chakkhurr  to be hitscan unbalance this gun?

I don't think so--not in the context of melee weapons and launchers.  Although it's not an improvement I'd choose.

Again though, my view is it performs extremely well for its class (and MR).  I'm all for improvements to the class, and I wouldn't mind  Chakkhurr  rising with the tide.

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if it was hitscan?

Effective, yeah, absolutely.   Enjoyable?  No, not for me.  

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)crashteddy03 said:

I used the Chakkhurr as my primary weapon for a long time. If you have it modded well, try equipping it on Wukong (Prime), summoning the twin and seeing if you can get to any enemies with melee before the twin takes them out 😁. With 100 accuracy the twin seldom misses, even though it's projectile. Also great for dealing with the flying enemies in PoE. You'll hear the warp in sound, hear the twin fire and hear the death sound before you've even worked out which way they are coming from!

Had I been a few minutes earlier, I would've written this post. The only thing I would've added is a mention of the guaranteed Impact proc on every enemy in its AoE, which coupled with the fire rate results in that sweet 70% Internal Bleeding. Add to that with the new Galvanized Multishot and you have yourself a not-quite-hitscan bazooka in the shape of an oversized walking stick that just annihilates.

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3 hours ago, quxier said:

But do you get this effect all the time (explosion)?

I honestly can't say for certain. I've been sure with some body shots that there isn't an explosion but it's possible the enemies are just outside of the explosion range. It seems to be more consistent that I 100% get explosions when I also get headshots, I've never noticed a headshot not triggering an explosion.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)crashteddy03 said:

I used the Chakkhurr as my primary weapon for a long time. If you have it modded well, try equipping it on Wukong (Prime), summoning the twin and seeing if you can get to any enemies with melee before the twin takes them out 😁. With 100 accuracy the twin seldom misses, even though it's projectile. Also great for dealing with the flying enemies in PoE. You'll hear the warp in sound, hear the twin fire and hear the death sound before you've even worked out which way they are coming from!

 

 

2 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Had I been a few minutes earlier, I would've written this post. The only thing I would've added is a mention of the guaranteed Impact proc on every enemy in its AoE, which coupled with the fire rate results in that sweet 70% Internal Bleeding. Add to that with the new Galvanized Multishot and you have yourself a not-quite-hitscan bazooka in the shape of an oversized walking stick that just annihilates.

Saying the weapon performs best in the hands of an aimbot AI isn't the best recommendation for it remaining as is. Couple that with the fact that AI doesn't reload and just stops firing every once in a while, has infinite ammo, and quite often ignores a weapons firerate, you're essentially handing wuclone a much better gun than you get to use.

 

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Actually I was comparing sustained DPS vs. the P. Grinny.  The difference in base damage is more pronounced--I'm guessing you're not accounting for the target getting hit by both the projectile and its AoE?

I don't think so--not in the context of melee weapons and launchers.  Although it's not an improvement I'd choose.

Again though, my view is it performs extremely well for its class (and MR).  I'm all for improvements to the class, and I wouldn't mind  Chakkhurr  rising with the tide.

Effective, yeah, absolutely.   Enjoyable?  No, not for me.  

No I wasn't, just the base damage.

The chakkhurr is in such a weird place. Has all a snipers negatives none of the positives. Can behave as a launcher but it's damage is too low to be considered in that category while still suffering the severely diminished ammo pool of the class. Has the worst quality of life stats of the entire semi auto rifle line but is still a better option than 90% them.  Designed for precision yet projectile.

I can understand and respect why someone would find the projectile enjoyable but I will never like it. The fact that the ai will inconsistently just do 180 degree turns for no reason even to the point of spinning in a circle is absolutely infuriating when it turns what should have been a headshot into a shoulder shot or a miss. The only thing that gets around the behaviour is hitscan. This happens with unalerted enemies and it doesn't matter if you lead the shot when they abruptly and with no logic spaz out. I would be a lot more forgiving of this quirk of the ai and the projectile nature of the chakkhurr if the reload, ammo type, and the fire rate weren't so punishing for a missed shot.

 

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11 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

I can understand and respect why someone would find the projectile enjoyable but I will never like it.

Yeah, I feel the same way about a distinctive attribute of a lot of other weapons that would otherwise be appealing to me.   Sometimes I grow to like them anyway--throwable mines being probably the biggest example.  But a lot of the time I just decide they're not for me and move on to any of the myriad other options this game offers.

Although...according to the wiki, it's got the second highest projectile speed in the game after the Lanka. So have you tried the Chakkhur with flight speed?  I haven't, but I know with the Daikyu--which has a lot less flight speed to multiply--Terminal Velocity makes a really significant difference.  If that's not enough, there's also rivens.  Although I'd play around with it and Zephyr's Jet Stream before making that kind of investment.

 

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48 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

The chakkhurr is in such a weird place. Has all a snipers negatives none of the positives. Can behave as a launcher but it's damage is too low to be considered in that category while still suffering the severely diminished ammo pool of the class. Has the worst quality of life stats of the entire semi auto rifle line but is still a better option than 90% them.  Designed for precision yet projectile.

If/when it works with galvanized aptitude it should impressively overkill most normal units, but personally I think it's how you view it/it's purpose. To me it's like a big game rifle with a bonus explosion that I use to shoot thralls and such. Projectile speed is not slow enough to be problematic and terminal velocity is a nice improvement that still requires a bit of skill to play. This is a game with hordes and where Aoe radius can reach nearly 14m with P firestorm though so single target guns do have disadvantages.

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43 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, I feel the same way about a distinctive attribute of a lot of other weapons that would otherwise be appealing to me.   Sometimes I grow to like them anyway--throwable mines being probably the biggest example.  But a lot of the time I just decide they're not for me and move on to any of the myriad other options this game offers.

Although...according to the wiki, it's got the second highest projectile speed in the game after the Lanka. So have you tried the Chakkhur with flight speed?  I haven't, but I know with the Daikyu--which has a lot less flight speed to multiply--Terminal Velocity makes a really significant difference.  If that's not enough, there's also rivens.  Although I'd play around with it and Zephyr's Jet Stream before making that kind of investment.

 

I've used flight speed with the Daikyu, I've only used the lanka for headless opponents that don't have damage caps like the orphix'. I'm still a couple forma away from getting flight speed on the thing, the ammo and reload problem are the first up for quality of life mods. The daikyu doesn't suffer as much from a non headshot as the chakkhurr does, losing that additional 50% bonus damage on headshot hurts. There aren't a lot of precision weapons to move on to sadly. The chakkhurr was the first one in a long time that felt like it had potential to be something fun and enjoyable. Unfortunately for me the projectile just ruins it. The last precision gun I had a lot of fun with was the aklex prime.

warframes recent design philosophy for secret damage caps on the enemies it makes the most sense to bring slow heavy single hit weapons to bear on has been a major bummer.

11 minutes ago, L3512 said:

If/when it works with galvanized aptitude it should impressively overkill most normal units, but personally I think it's how you view it/it's purpose. To me it's like a big game rifle with a bonus explosion that I use to shoot thralls and such. Projectile speed is not slow enough to be problematic and terminal velocity is a nice improvement that still requires a bit of skill to play. This is a game with hordes and where Aoe radius can reach nearly 14m with P firestorm though so single target guns do have disadvantages.

What  the design of the gun tells me is : it's intended to be a headshot focused because you get 50% extra damage on a headshot built into the gun. The slow firerate and long reload say it's supposed to focus on accuracy. The fact that it's a long barrel causing a substantial dead zone in front of you says it's medium to long range. At medium to long range the projectile speed will become a problem when the ai derps out which is often.

Even shunting it's purpose down to only mid/close range and ignoring the massive bonus from headshots the gun has too many rough points. It's the first gun where it feels like it desperately needs the 3 major QOL mods: relaod/holster reload, flight speed, and ammo mutation. It's almost painful when there are so many other weapons that outpace it in ease of use, convenience, and performance.

Edited by Drasiel
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8 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Saying the weapon performs best in the hands of an aimbot AI isn't the best recommendation for it remaining as is. Couple that with the fact that AI doesn't reload and just stops firing every once in a while, has infinite ammo, and quite often ignores a weapons firerate, you're essentially handing wuclone a much better gun than you get to use.

Strawmanning our arguments to only being about the gun in the hands of an aimbot AI isn't a particularly good way to counter what we brought up. The AI does in fact reload, sometimes more often than necessary, and ammo is not a problem for you because Vigilante Supplies is one of the best Exilus mods for your average gun due to the crit alone. The fact that monkey bro always aims for enemies while you can put your shots in the middle of crowds for optimal AoE coverage means that you don't have to be an aimbot to take advantage of the Chakkhurr. Arguably, you as a player perform better with the weapon than the AI!

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

My biggest problem is Chakkhurr is the fact that it’s explosion drop off is so incredibly low for such a small explosion radius. It just makes me question why bother making it explosive at all if it’s forcing you to use it as a single target weapon.

The less explosion drop-off the better, though - makes the damage more uniform from AoE center to edge. Chakkhurr is sitting at 70% damage at the edge of its 2.9m radius, so it sits at around the same drop-off % as the Secura Penta at that edge. S.P may have like twice the radius but the damage falls off to 40%, and Chakkhurr can take much better advantage of Internal Bleeding due to its forced Impact proc across its AoE and low enough fire rate to hit the 70% Bleed chance. This Slash machine is far from a single target weapon.

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