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Is there any reason why not many people play Protea?


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3 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

She came out halfway through last year, and had decent usage rates regardless. Not really sure what you mean by not many people using her, unless you mean why there isn't one every single mission.

Also, one reason people have for using her can be put on any Warframe. Her 4th ability is one that also had received a fair bit of complaints/criticism, and for most people, it isn't useful for most mission types.  Other than shield generation, she just has damage, and there's already options for Warframes that do damage and has utility. It then becomes a matter of what method of dealing damage do people enjoy, or is effective for the given relevant content. Her not being speed oriented also limits how often she would be used. 

Well maybe server comes to play but here in Asia, I barely see any Protea at all, but a 98% chance there's at least one wukong player in the team. The rest of the team may vary between maybe Wisp, Saryn, Umbra, or Gauss, but most of the time a Wukong is gonna be there. I'm not even exaggerating when I say I get a team of 3 wukong primes a lot.

And well if people only play her for the dispensary then they're missing out. Also if speed is a factoring choice, I really should be seeing Titania more cause she's the pinnacle of rushframe for me.

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with protea, its a matter of preference why some are played and some not, changes from player to player.

i personally use protea often for mobile defense and defense on occasion, there are far too many frames that fit many mission types

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15 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

She's gonna have a deluxe? Oh boy where can I see it?!

Here:

jf38nsnr6vb71.jpg

17 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

I do enjoy melee frames from time to time as well. Hack and slashing enemies from up close is indeed very satisfying. And though I am currently in love with Protea, Garuda is still my "main" frame. I also like to play Wukong based on his Primal Fury with tons of power strength (sorry Kuva Bramma/Nukor wielding clone Wukong players!).

And oh boy Gauss is super fun to play as well.

I feel the same way about Valkyr.

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1 minute ago, ReddyDisco said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with protea, its a matter of preference why some are played and some not, changes from player to player.

i personally use protea often for mobile defense and defense on occasion, there are far too many frames that fit many mission types

Well imo she can easily fit any mission types (except for maybe spy, rescue, and capture) but to each their own I guess. Which makes me wonder why some people only and I mean ONLY bring Wukong to every single mission there is. Yes even Eidolon Hunts. There's no way 98% of the entire Warframe Asia playerbase only enjoy one playstyle: playing with one hand.

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Here:

jf38nsnr6vb71.jpg

 

Oh my goodness it is gorgeous. Was this one from the twitch tennocon stream? No wonder I haven't seen it yet.

Okay that's it I'm going to have to not play for 2 days to get them discounts to buy more plats, lol.

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3 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Well maybe server comes to play but here in Asia, I barely see any Protea at all, but a 98% chance there's at least one wukong player in the team. The rest of the team may vary between maybe Wisp, Saryn, Umbra, or Gauss, but most of the time a Wukong is gonna be there. I'm not even exaggerating when I say I get a team of 3 wukong primes a lot.

And well if people only play her for the dispensary then they're missing out. Also if speed is a factoring choice, I really should be seeing Titania more cause she's the pinnacle of rushframe for me.

DE didn't share stats based on region, they're just able to be split by MR. I also know at one point some people from China was spamming forums about nerfing Gauss since he was everywhere. On NA, I don't see them that often outside of rush missions. No different to how I almost never see Saryn outside of ESO/Defense. Waframe usage also varies by content. During SS DE showed usage for the event, and some Warframes had higher usage than normal. When SP came out, I pugged all the nodes, and almost every run it was 3x Khora, with me being the only non-Khora. She ended up used a lot for it which led to them trying to nerf her.

Wukong's Cloud Walker is easier mobility. Most missions are rushing from A to B. A lot of people don't bullet jump well, don't like AW in hallways, and don't like insanely increased movespeed buffs [complaints over Volt's 2 and high str Wisp].

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)thowed said:

I use her all the time.  You were "joking" but that one reason is the answer to your question.

Yeah sad. There's 46 frames like someone else mentioned but I barely see any diversity in frames played, it's always gonna be the damn monke again and again. I mean if they're gonna play Wukong at least make him use his staff. No joke I've been on a team with 3 wukong primes with the same exact loadout: Kuva Zarr, Kuva Nukor, Kronen Prime.

It was an Eidolon hunt mission.

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10 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

1. Isn't that basically the problem for most other frames out there that aren't built for extreme tankiness? That is why you get mobile, stay on the move and dodge shots instead of taking them head on, if you're standing still of course you're dead meat, no matter which frame you use (except maybe Nidus). Besides, her shield is very spammable and can replenish almost 2k shield within less of a second. When it comes to toxin, again your health dispenser is your main source of healing and you're most likely gonna have a few of that laying about because you barely take damage from any other source. Also, if you notice you're almost dead, just retreat early and you'll get all your health/shields back by the time you reach your safe point in which you trigger your anchor so you can take a breather for a bit. Unless we're talking about level 9999 enemies, but then again what really is the point of balancing around level 9999 content?

2. Her turrets do AOE damage and each enemy hit (or from what I observed so far) increases their multiplier, meaning if there's a hecking ton of enemy in front of them, you can get up to 24x multiplier, which means 2400% increase in AoE damage and that can be very destructive. Plus it deals heat damage and has a pretty high status proc so it can quite reliably hit the heavier units as well. Also you still have your guns to supplement her damage. You can also jacks up her duration to make them maintain their max damage longer, and there's her passive of increasing strength by 100% every 4th ability cast.

3. Again, if you need strength, just cast your dispenser on the 4th cast and if you build even with 150% STR, it really makes a difference in drop frequency.

Also just curious, what are the current meta frames as of now? What do people demand from frames? I notice not many frames can even dent high level enemies with their abilities alone (though Protea surprisingly can), so maybe I'm thinking Khora for her CC but iirc her ensnare is the subsume ability so you can slap that on pretty much everyone else (better yet, for Protea to help up her turret ramp up that damage faster). Do people nowadays consider frames good by their capabilities of dealing with level 9999 enemies?

1. Not really, frames that can stun, turn invisible, or remove enemy weapons of some sort that aren't tanky don't have that issue. Ash being one of them with his armor strip mod. And while yes her abilities are spammable, the energy cost will come back to bite you in the end. Your health dispenser isn't always going to save you since either A. it doesn't give enough health or B. it will give you energy instead of health because your energy is lower than your health. Also, most of the time enemies will spawn in your way or if you retreat you could get cornered. While yes, staying mobile is the best option (even for tanky frames) there are just times were that isn't an option. enemies like Bombards have AOEs that can knock you down if you get too close. Corpus units have a lot of automatic weapons that fire at just the right speed that they are basically impossible to dodge and there is so many of them that retreating is your only option, but you could also be retreating into another group of enemies that will finish you off. Not only that, all of these abilities have annoyingly long cast times. All of which don't give any immunity frames or buffs right out the gate. The turrets takes a second or two too lock on. The dispenser doesn't give items right away. The 4th ability takes a while to start and you can  get killed before you activate it. And her 1 your have to throw, then wait for it to activate for a few seconds. I'm not talking about level 9999, I'm saying that I've had these issues with Steel Path enemies in survival alone (where I test most Warframe abilities) and if you get Violence, who can straight up cancel your abilities and make them not available for a few seconds or until you kill them, then you are just dead meat, done and done. Or Stalker, who can do the same thing. That, and a lot of acolytes have stun mechanics, do hefty damage, or can just bypass your abilities altogether.

2. They can do AOE damage, if your enemies are so close together that they are clipping into one another. While yes they can do AOE damage, they aren't doing constant damage. I've tested it out in Simulacrum and found that if the enemies are somewhat spaced out, they take no AOE damage and the Turret splits up its shots in between multiple enemies (honestly I'd think it'd be pretty cool or neato if you could pick a target for the turrets and have them split between three targets so they can focus on the bigger enemies instead of trying to get the butcher stuck in a wall)

3. That means you'd have to cast 3 other abilities to place down 1 ability. So that can be up to 75 energy for her lowest energy ability then add another 75 to that. While in the long term that isn't a lot of energy, starting off the mission you really need to have that dispenser down already to gain more energy, have health an ammo already there just in case you need it. Even then I've seen people have 300% strength(I basically rely on mods to get me above 300% strength) and I still only sometimes get doubles. That is with her passive active btw.

My best guess for meta is Warframes that can tank a lot of damage (Inaros, Wukong), can disable or disrupt their enemies (Ash, Banshee, Loki), or can do a lot of damage (Saryn, Excal and so on).

Basically crowd control is the game right now. Something Protea very obviously lacks. Three turrets is 150 energy and they can all target the same enemy at once, while yes, killing that enemy, but also it's the level 105 infested charger and not the Ancient Disrupter that can magic their hook into you and drain your energy to 0 while dragging you closer to 1 hit kill you.

She's amazing for the base game and in some cases (depending heavily on the Sortie) Sortie missions. Energy reduction will probably kill her since she is too heavily dependent on her abilities to survive (personally why I like running Tanky frames since they don't always have to spam their abilities to stay alive and can just focus on the killing part)

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Protea is one of my 3 go to frames together with Lavos and Revenant.

Protea and Lavos for Steel Path and then Revenant for most sister/lich stuff. Protea is used when I just wanna hang back and blow stuff up and Lavos when I wanna melee stuff and face tank. Vauban has also started to creep in as a regular for Steel Path when I feel like just hanging and nuking. Using Gloom instead of Protea's regular 4.

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59 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Well, there's enough time to play a couple of them instead of picking Wukong all the time.

Wukong is this game's Diablo 2 Teleport.  He's got an ability that lets you safely and easily skip content to get where you need to go.  He's also easy to acquire, comes with a bodyguard, is difficult to kill, and even has an exalted weapon (which yes, advanced players often won't bother with, but for a newer player the built in catalyst is absolutely critical).  I love Cloudwalker, but I'm not going to pretend it is anything other than the best ability in the game.

 

As for your original question, Protea is difficult to acquire, finnicky to build, and has a 4th ability that is so unreliable and discordant with the flow of the game that it's almost never worth using.  I'm one of the weirdos that hasn't replaced it with Larva or another Helminth ability.  I try to find uses for it, but it bugs out too much for it to be useful.

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2 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

DE didn't share stats based on region, they're just able to be split by MR. I also know at one point some people from China was spamming forums about nerfing Gauss since he was everywhere. On NA, I don't see them that often outside of rush missions. No different to how I almost never see Saryn outside of ESO/Defense. Waframe usage also varies by content. During SS DE showed usage for the event, and some Warframes had higher usage than normal. When SP came out, I pugged all the nodes, and almost every run it was 3x Khora, with me being the only non-Khora. She ended up used a lot for it which led to them trying to nerf her.

Wukong's Cloud Walker is easier mobility. Most missions are rushing from A to B. A lot of people don't bullet jump well, don't like AW in hallways, and don't like insanely increased movespeed buffs [complaints over Volt's 2 and high str Wisp].

Well I'd take a team of 3 Khoras any day any time. Also in my personal experience, no, the frame usage per mission type doesn't change. The most common is still Wukong they vary in MR from 5 all the way to (the rank after MR30). At least Gauss is fun to play and he can give a bit of crowd control or armor strip. He requires active playstyle. Most Wukongs I play stay idle in objective, let their clone do their work, then cloud away to extraction, which I assume is done with one hand, while the other does who knows what, probably browse Tiktok or something. 

Also Protea is a decent support frame so having 3 of her is way better than having 3 Wukong Primes. 

Heck no I'd take a team of 3 Yarelis over 3 Wukong Primes.

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6 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Well imo she can easily fit any mission types (except for maybe spy, rescue, and capture) but to each their own I guess. Which makes me wonder why some people only and I mean ONLY bring Wukong to every single mission there is. Yes even Eidolon Hunts. There's no way 98% of the entire Warframe Asia playerbase only enjoy one playstyle: playing with one hand.

so this is about why ppl use wukong and not other other frames?

He's fast with cloudwalker

He's tanky and has 3 free lives

He's got semi afk clone

He's cheap for new players to buy

He's versatile

He's Monke

Honestly Wukong is just efficient at doing this fast and surviving any mission, and its also a region thing in asia wukong is more popular as a cultural icon

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4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Protea is one of my 3 go to frames together with Lavos and Revenant.

Protea and Lavos for Steel Path and then Revenant for most sister/lich stuff. Protea is used when I just wanna hang back and blow stuff up and Lavos when I wanna melee stuff and face tank. Vauban has also started to creep in as a regular for Steel Path when I feel like just hanging and nuking. Using Gloom instead of Protea's regular 4.

Gloom was.. uhh was it Revenant's? I forgot, havent' messed up with subsuming all that much. Might have to try this one myself.

Oh and on a side note can you give a quick tip on Lavos? I also like his abilities but have no idea how to "properly" use him aside from maybe spam viral with viral rush and then catalyzing everyone. 

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3 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Gloom was.. uhh was it Revenant's? I forgot, havent' messed up with subsuming all that much. Might have to try this one myself.

Oh and on a side note can you give a quick tip on Lavos? I also like his abilities but have no idea how to "properly" use him aside from maybe spam viral with viral rush and then catalyzing everyone. 

Gloom is Sevagoth's ability, it slows down enemies and allows for health steal.

I'd personally say play with the Cedo if you're able too, it's basically an extra passive ability he has since it goes with his other abilities so well. 

I know you're not asking me but I'd like to help if I can.

Edited by (XBOX)ScooterLaroo
small word error
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1 minute ago, ReddyDisco said:

so this is about why ppl use wukong and not other other frames?

He's fast with cloudwalker

He's tanky and has 3 free lives

He's got semi afk clone

He's cheap for new players to buy

He's versatile

He's Monke

Honestly Wukong is just efficient at doing this fast and surviving any mission, and its also a region thing in asia wukong is more popular as a cultural icon

I kinda brought Wukong in to discuss diversity. Since everyone was saying Protea is not enjoyable to their playstyles (which I assume is gonna vary from person to person) I was wondering why everyone and their damn mothers only bring Wukong everywhere. I do like him to but I prefer his whack-a-jack style with Primal Fury and go ham on enemies. Besides, the Sun Wukong I know is an agile, hyperactive combatant with a heart of a trickster, yet what I'm seeing is "idle on objective while my clone blows everything up with this super OP rocket launcher". I mean just slap a Rhino Specter with the same weapon set if that's what they want, it's not like they're expensive to crap and unlike his clone they can also do their own skills. A Rhino Specter is actually a fine tank and CC ally. Heck no, a Protea turret can do that too! They only need to press the skill button a bit more.

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18 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

Gloom was.. uhh was it Revenant's? I forgot, havent' messed up with subsuming all that much. Might have to try this one myself.

Oh and on a side note can you give a quick tip on Lavos? I also like his abilities but have no idea how to "properly" use him aside from maybe spam viral with viral rush and then catalyzing everyone. 

On Lavos I just run a very high ranged build with decent high strength, swapping out vial rush for Roar while using all 3 umbral mods. The range really helps him with CD reduction, far more than efficiency, his #4 also ends up at a rediculous 70m+ range. Just make sure to stay at 100% duration in order to not shorten the duration of all your statuses.

Growing Power, Primed Sure Footed

Umbra Fiber, Umbra Vit, Umbra Int, Blind Rage, Overextended, Stretch, Adaptation and then the last one is Augur Reach iirc.

edit: And if I remember right, my overextended is 1 from max and adaptation sits at a cost of 8 in order to fit the rest of it.

edit2: Avenger and Grace as arcanes.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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6 minutes ago, AzureScion said:

I kinda brought Wukong in to discuss diversity. Since everyone was saying Protea is not enjoyable to their playstyles (which I assume is gonna vary from person to person) I was wondering why everyone and their damn mothers only bring Wukong everywhere. I do like him to but I prefer his whack-a-jack style with Primal Fury and go ham on enemies. Besides, the Sun Wukong I know is an agile, hyperactive combatant with a heart of a trickster, yet what I'm seeing is "idle on objective while my clone blows everything up with this super OP rocket launcher". I mean just slap a Rhino Specter with the same weapon set if that's what they want, it's not like they're expensive to crap and unlike his clone they can also do their own skills. A Rhino Specter is actually a fine tank and CC ally. Heck no, a Protea turret can do that too! They only need to press the skill button a bit more.

Wukong's clone shares the mods and I think arcanes that are on the weapons, Specters don't, they are just the base variant of the weapon, warframe, and their abilities.

Protea's turret is not a good CC or AOE ability. It constantly switches targets and there is obvious fall-off with the CC damage. That, and since it only does fire damage it isn't good against proto-shields, aka the entirety of the Corpus.

Wukong is often used because he can clear hordes of enemies quickly and effectively while being able to actually take a hit and not crumple to dust because their shield is gone.

Protea heavily relies on her abilities just to stay alive. Take away her energy, she's dead. The same can't be said for Wukong, Inaros, Hildryn, or even Lavos. 

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19 minutes ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

1. Not really, frames that can stun, turn invisible, or remove enemy weapons of some sort that aren't tanky don't have that issue. Ash being one of them with his armor strip mod. And while yes her abilities are spammable, the energy cost will come back to bite you in the end. Your health dispenser isn't always going to save you since either A. it doesn't give enough health or B. it will give you energy instead of health because your energy is lower than your health. Also, most of the time enemies will spawn in your way or if you retreat you could get cornered. While yes, staying mobile is the best option (even for tanky frames) there are just times were that isn't an option. enemies like Bombards have AOEs that can knock you down if you get too close. Corpus units have a lot of automatic weapons that fire at just the right speed that they are basically impossible to dodge and there is so many of them that retreating is your only option, but you could also be retreating into another group of enemies that will finish you off. Not only that, all of these abilities have annoyingly long cast times. All of which don't give any immunity frames or buffs right out the gate. The turrets takes a second or two too lock on. The dispenser doesn't give items right away. The 4th ability takes a while to start and you can  get killed before you activate it. And her 1 your have to throw, then wait for it to activate for a few seconds. I'm not talking about level 9999, I'm saying that I've had these issues with Steel Path enemies in survival alone (where I test most Warframe abilities) and if you get Violence, who can straight up cancel your abilities and make them not available for a few seconds or until you kill them, then you are just dead meat, done and done. Or Stalker, who can do the same thing. That, and a lot of acolytes have stun mechanics, do hefty damage, or can just bypass your abilities altogether.

2. They can do AOE damage, if your enemies are so close together that they are clipping into one another. While yes they can do AOE damage, they aren't doing constant damage. I've tested it out in Simulacrum and found that if the enemies are somewhat spaced out, they take no AOE damage and the Turret splits up its shots in between multiple enemies (honestly I'd think it'd be pretty cool or neato if you could pick a target for the turrets and have them split between three targets so they can focus on the bigger enemies instead of trying to get the butcher stuck in a wall)

3. That means you'd have to cast 3 other abilities to place down 1 ability. So that can be up to 75 energy for her lowest energy ability then add another 75 to that. While in the long term that isn't a lot of energy, starting off the mission you really need to have that dispenser down already to gain more energy, have health an ammo already there just in case you need it. Even then I've seen people have 300% strength(I basically rely on mods to get me above 300% strength) and I still only sometimes get doubles. That is with her passive active btw.

My best guess for meta is Warframes that can tank a lot of damage (Inaros, Wukong), can disable or disrupt their enemies (Ash, Banshee, Loki), or can do a lot of damage (Saryn, Excal and so on).

Basically crowd control is the game right now. Something Protea very obviously lacks. Three turrets is 150 energy and they can all target the same enemy at once, while yes, killing that enemy, but also it's the level 105 infested charger and not the Ancient Disrupter that can magic their hook into you and drain your energy to 0 while dragging you closer to 1 hit kill you.

She's amazing for the base game and in some cases (depending heavily on the Sortie) Sortie missions. Energy reduction will probably kill her since she is too heavily dependent on her abilities to survive (personally why I like running Tanky frames since they don't always have to spam their abilities to stay alive and can just focus on the killing part)

So what I gathered from this is, she's a problem because she's an ability based frame, correct? I mean that kinda makes sense if we're fighting bosses with ability nullifying traits, but sometimes being *very* mobile and having a good gun can solve that problem. Though I do agree I feel "safer" when battling a boss if I use a tankier frame (or Titania) but if they have ability nullifying, which frame can really negate them? Armor is basically pointless in very high level content and they can oneshot any frame regardless. With Protea though, the amount of time you get after shieldgate procs will give you enough to cast another shield grenade, hopefully able to bring you back to full shield. As for CC, I think her 1 (tap, not hold) does okay CC, but I'm gonna have to test that one again, not much argument I can give on this. Also if the main problem is energy or health and the situation is dire, you can always slap a pizza and while her turret might not be as reliable, you still have your gun to take out priority targets like arbitration drones, ancient healers, or nullifiers first. That's also what you do with tanky frames, let your frame's tankiness sustain you while you barrage your enemies with your gun. Protea's turrets act as an excellent damage supplement that completely wipe out the lesser mobs that you can't bother to take one by one. 

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17 minutes ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

Gloom is Sevagoth's ability, it slows down enemies and allows for health steal.

I'd personally say play with the Cedo if you're able too, it's basically an extra passive ability he has since it goes with his other abilities so well. 

I know you're not asking me but I'd like to help if I can.

Aye I'll take every tip I can get. I'm not exactly at the endgame-endgame point yet (aka MR30 with thousands of plats and every frame owned) so I'm trying to absorb as many information I can.

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