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No wonder some Deluxe skins feel like they belong to a different frame. Protea's was a Mag concept.


Jarriaga
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This concept art (Posted in January) belongs to the artist who designed "Protea's" upcoming deluxe skin:

warframe_skin_brainstorming__ardent_six_

The red one is Equinox, and the blue one is Mag according to the artist. It seems it was eventually re-tooled (Mostly in the helmet) into what is now Protea deluxe.

While most deluxe skins feel like the base frame itself is unrecognizable, the theme of the skin can often be used to link them.... Except for:

- Limbo getting a Sentient skin instead of Revenant, the former Sentient-themed frame (Now just Eidolon-themed). Curiously, Volt is getting a Sentient skin instead of saving it for Caliban in the future.

- Excalibur getting a nomadic traveler "Zen" skin instead of Baruuk (Weird missed opportunity there by not exploring a "futuristic medieval European knight" concept for the frame named Excalibur).

- Harrow getting an ethereal skin instead of Limbo. You know, the frame that can travel across planes of existence and died in the process of doing so?

- Ash getting a necromancer/mummy skin instead of Nekros/Inaros. He looks like an undead Mortal Kombat character. I don't see a hint of ninja/assassin there unless all hooded figures represent assassins.

- Revenant getting a Lunala skin instead of Sevagoth (Ember's and Revenant's are clearly gender-swapped Solgaleo and Lunala; Ember neatly embodies the Sun, but Revenant does not represent the Moon over Sevagoth. Else, Equinox with these 2 skins being each aspect).

It's a rather curious development that indicates there's something in the pipeline that ultimately decides how a skin is going to be used. Otherwise, we would be getting a Mag skin (Even if it doesn't fully fit either) considering the skin was created with Mag in mind.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Mag already has a deluxe skin so I don't think it's a big deal that it was given to Protea instead,the skin itself doesn't seem to have a theme other than ,,elegant and regal'' which is a pretty generic theme can fit quite a few warframes. If it wasn't for the helmet I would've assumed that's Saryn.

Edited by V2lkyr
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Just now, V2lkyr said:

Mag already has a deluxe skin so I don't think it's a big deal that it was given to Protea instead,the skin itself doesn't seem to have a theme other than ,,elegant and regal'' which is a pretty generic theme can fit quite a few warframes

Already having a deluxe skin didn't stop DE from making a new one for some other frames (Nyx, Nova, Ash, Excalibur) despite others having none at the time (Mirage). 

I don't use Mag or Protea, so I have no horse in that race. But I do find it rather curious that the artist's original intent is going elsewhere and I wonder if it happened before for other frames with skins that don't fit their themes. 

4 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I think DE saw the orb and thought "Hey, we have a female frame that throws orbs, maybe we should use this for her?" and thus it became a Protea skin.

Personally, I can't complain. It will be nice to see a cool skin on a frame I already play a lot.

Quite funny if that is actually what happened. I would give up on the notion of future frames having skin consistency if that's the case.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Already having a deluxe skin didn't stop DE from making a new one for some other frames (Nyx, Nova, Ash, Excalibur) despite others having none at the time (Mirage). 

I don't use Mag or Protea, so I have no horse in that race. But I do find it rather curious that the artist's original intent is going elsewhere and I wonder if it happened before for other frames with skins that don't fit their themes. 

Quite funny if that is actually what happened. I would give up on the notion of future frames having skin consistency if that's the case.

 

I'll admit I am pretty salty that they're giving frames multiple deluxes while forgetting about others,so I do support the decision of making it a Protea skin more.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb Jarriaga:

 

I don't use Mag or Protea, so I have no horse in that race. But I do find it rather curious that the artist's original intent is going elsewhere and I wonder if it happened before for other frames with skins that don't fit their themes. 

 

This happens all the time in character design, for pretty much anything. Designs are often put in a 'drawer' and pulled out when needed.

But I actually can't agree that the Deluxe skins don't fit their theme. Might be that I read them differently, since I come out of a specific branch of character design (not better, mind you, just different) but I usually can see how they fit together with their base theme.

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5 minutes ago, Sinekanter said:

This happens all the time in character design, for pretty much anything. Designs are often put in a 'drawer' and pulled out when needed.

But I actually can't agree that the Deluxe skins don't fit their theme. Might be that I read them differently, since I come out of a specific branch of character design (not better, mind you, just different) but I usually can see how they fit together with their base theme.

I'd honestly appreciate your insight there, particularly the ones that puzzled me the most. Namely, the Limbo and Harrow ones.

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13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It looks more like Protea than Mag to me. Especially when you consider the "workname" Protea went under that was connected to female house "servants" of the turkish(?) empire. And that deluxe skin up there really captures such vibes.

That's fair, but the Artist envisioned her as Mag. In addition, if name etymology was a consideration for deluxe skins then Excalibur would have gotten something vastly different. Same goes for Ash ("Koga" means "Old River"; nothing to do with cinders or ashes), and it would have been inexcusable for Limbo not getting Harrow's deluxe considering the ethereal nature of the skin as if it was split/trapped in between different planes of existence.... Like in Limbo.

It's all very inconsistent, with different rules applying at different times while being ignored some other times. That is what I have a problem with.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Maybe, and I know crazy idea but hear me out... maybe that the vanilla skins are there to take care of the themes, and that the delux skins are there just to look cool, freed from the limitation of the themes. 

I know I know, very tough concept to grasp, but give it a minute, it'll make sense eventually

Edited by Fallen77
Typo / brainfart
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11 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Maybe, and I know crazy idea but hear me out... maybe that the vanilla skins are there to take care of the themes, and that the delux skins are there just to look cool, freed from the limitation of the skins. 

This. I personally never cared whether or not a skin 'complies' with a warframe's theme. If it looks cool, I'll use it, simple as that.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Jarriaga:

I'd honestly appreciate your insight there, particularly the ones that puzzled me the most. Namely, the Limbo and Harrow ones.

Sure, I'd love to share, but I am going to a house viewing, so it might take me a bit to answer. 

I will try to give a well thought out answer later.

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22 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Maybe, and I know crazy idea but hear me out... maybe that the vanilla skins are there to take care of the themes, and that the delux skins are there just to look cool, freed from the limitation of the skins. 

I know I know, very tough concept to grasp, but give it a minute, it'll make sense eventually

That is very well a possibility, but it is a hard pill to swallow if you like a WF explicitly because of its theme. It makes the deluxe feel alien and disconnected.

At that point might as well make a transmog system for all skins if the theme doesn't matter.

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19 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

This explains why the new Ember Deluxe was missing her feet, sorta like Wisp...

DE do like weird feet designs,I don't think it was supposed to be a Wisp skin (plus the steam workshop is filled with Wisp skins so she has a ton coming anyway)

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2 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

That's fair, but the Artist envisioned her as Mag. In addition, if name etymology was a consideration for deluxe skins then Excalibur would have gotten something vastly different. Same goes for Ash ("Koga" means "Old River"; nothing to do with cinders or ashes), and it would have been inexcusable for Limbo not getting Harrow's deluxe considering the ethereal nature of the skin as if it was split/trapped in between different planes of existence.... Like in Limbo.

It's all very inconsistent, with different rules applying at different times while being ignored some other times. That is what I have a problem with.

But the artist was OK with handing over the idea and agreed on its use for Protea. And I'm not focusing on the name as such, I'm simply saying that it very much fits that idea of Protea. Just as her default skin fits it, especially with the "harem" mask. All in all if you hadnt pointed out it was Mag, it wouldnt even have crossed my mind. And it isnt so much the name either as the actual theme for Protea which gave her the placeholder name prior to release. Ash still has his ninja theme, which fits all of his skins, just as Excals swordsman theme is present in his skins in some way.

The concept in the pic leads my thoughts to Protea, Trinity, Banshee, Nyx and possibly Garuda. It gives me zero Mag vibes.

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As far as deluxe skins go, I feel as though DE pushes whatever skins they may like onto a specific 'frame, regardless of whether or not there's some consistency with the theme. It also feels as if some of these concepts were accepted on the basis of "it looks nice" without even considering the functionality (Zephyr Harrier, Excalibur Zato), or whether or not it actually looks like it belongs in the same game. 

 

At least they seem to be over Liger's forced Asian aesthetic (for now...)

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7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Limbo getting a Sentient skin instead of Revenant, the former Sentient-themed frame (Now just Eidolon-themed). Curiously, Volt is getting a Sentient skin instead of saving it for Caliban in the future.

I was gonna say "Limbo Limina was Caliban before Caliban was a thing" lol, and why is it that he just can't seem to get a good volt skin? his proto skin was awful, the new one looks meh, and none of the Tennogen for him is that great either. where in the blue flying void is a thunder-god themed skin for him?!!!

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Excalibur getting a nomadic traveler "Zen" skin instead of Baruuk (Weird missed opportunity there by not exploring a "futuristic medieval European knight" concept for the frame named Excalibur).

Vauban's Deluxe took the Knight theme, but it's closer to a steampunk'd Renaissance-era knightly armor than a traditional Crusades/medieval-era armor, but I still like it. and Excal already has more than enough skins, I'll gladly wait 5 years or more while other frames that need attention get it.

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Harrow getting an ethereal skin instead of Limbo. You know, the frame that can travel across planes of existence and died in the process of doing so?

to be fair, Harrow's Priest themes do invite a more ethereal option, and I really like his Reliquary skin. I use the Armor pieces on a ton of different fashion loadouts, they add something without being too bulky, and suit a lot of different frames.

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Ash getting a necromancer/mummy skin instead of Ash/Inaros. He looks like an undead Mortal Kombat character. I don't see a hint of ninja/assassin there unless all hooded figures represent assassins.

all hooded figures = Assassins as far as pop culture goes. no joke, my mother thinks every person in a videogame who wears a hood makes it an Assassin's Creed game.... I think it was also meant to be more death-themed, in relation to his Leverian Story, which arrived at the same time and depicts Ash as being worshipped by the Scoria (an assassin training school) as an incarnation of Death. his deluxe Syandana is called the Cremata, and has ashes falling from it constantly: clearly a reference to cremation.

personally I tend to prefer them sticking to the theme of a frame, but sometimes when they do something else, the results can be quite nice, like with Nidus Phyrke and Harrow Reliquary. I just wish Volt got something that didn't look like molded plastic....

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Il y a 20 heures, Jarriaga a dit :

That is very well a possibility, but it is a hard pill to swallow if you like a WF explicitly because of its theme. It makes the deluxe feel alien and disconnected.

At that point might as well make a transmog system for all skins if the theme doesn't matter.

Oh yeah, you love warframe as a all BECAUSE mag as a magnetic skin (or any x frame has y theme), that is explicitly why you play the game in the first place.

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35 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Oh yeah, you love warframe as a all BECAUSE mag as a magnetic skin (or any x frame has y theme), that is explicitly why you play the game in the first place.

Not the skin per se, the theme. It's explicitly the reason why I play Valkyr for example and not Mesa. The "angry berserker" vibe in her animations and armored look. I can associate a raging bull or a cat or demon with that, but not a bunny or a ballet dancer or a cowboy. Thus, Mesa has never interested me, and she never will no matter how cool she looks and/or how powerful she is because she's a gunslinger. Archetypes are a huge driving force for choosing your character in fighting games and your class in an MMO.

Sure, you an argue "If you don't like it don't buy it" but that doesn't address the fact that development time and resources were spent on said deluxe instead of a different theme-friendly design to begin with, and that  said theme-friendly design could now take years to come because DE are not going to add 2 deluxe skins for the same frame in a close time frame. After all, Pablo said that they are not reworking frames this year because time spent reworking a frame means time not working on something else, and this is true for deluxe skin design and modeling as well. 

I don't play Mag or Protea, so I don't have a horse in that race. I do however like consistency, and if themes don't matter then might as well make it a transmog if the theme and identity are meaningless and worthless when compared to coolness.

Edited by Jarriaga
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