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Sisters of Parvos: Hotfix 30.5.5


[DE]Megan
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13 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I can't speak to endless missions for farming acolytes, but I think the daily incursions should just have a guaranteed spawn within one minute of starting it, or within 10-20 seconds of completing the objective.  The current system rewards AFK solo play, logging in and staring at your phone for a few minutes before heading off to complete the capture.  Not saying I do this, but it's what the system is incentivizing.  And we've all probably experienced that "should we / shouldn't we" ambiguity in public matchmaking as people decide whether to wait near extraction for an acolyte to spawn.  

 

It's a crappy system that is effectively penalizing people with good loadouts / game knowledge who complete these missions efficiently.

You can replay incursions -- that's part of the problem. Granted, you can't double dip with the end of mission rewards of steel essence, but they can't put timers on the acolytes that are shorter on incursions because then they would need to essentially lock players from redoing them.... somehow.

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On 2021-07-29 at 12:08 PM, [DE]Megan said:

 

Fixes:

  • Fixed Galvanized Mods offering increased damage from Status on target not reliably working on numerous weapons.

No you did not. Please play test your fixes and your game in general. 
 

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Those bugs need to be fixed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. The Akarius bug has been there for more than a year, when will you even make a “plan” to fix it?
Your attitude towards those game experience harmful bugs really disappointed me.

Edited by ArchWu5
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11 hours ago, Lokanahta said:

You can replay incursions -- that's part of the problem. Granted, you can't double dip with the end of mission rewards of steel essence, but they can't put timers on the acolytes that are shorter on incursions because then they would need to essentially lock players from redoing them.... somehow.

Thank you for this.  It was new information for me.  I guess I should have known.

 

DE would need to figure out a way to stop people from replaying these missions.  I think their current method of discouraging replays is just to block the rewards, but like you say, that only works on the end of mission rewards, not on acolyte drops.  I think they could figure it out.  A few RJ updates ago, DE had a way of kicking out my friend as the mission launched if he hadn't broken down enough wreckage.  It has to be within their power to prevent replays of incursions.

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2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

DE would need to figure out a way to stop people from replaying these missions.  I think their current method of discouraging replays is just to block the rewards, but like you say, that only works on the end of mission rewards, not on acolyte drops.  I think they could figure it out.  

With Arbitrations being alerts that disappear when completed, they sure could cook something up.

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

A few RJ updates ago, DE had a way of kicking out my friend as the mission launched if he hadn't broken down enough wreckage.

I'm p sure this is just down to internet connection, as I've joined missions with 80+ items in my scrap (50+ over the amount). 

I think the limit only applied to items you've inspected or repaired/equipped, hence it telling you that it'll take up a salvage slot if you inspect/repair anything. 

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5 hours ago, DarknessNightshade said:

 

I'm p sure this is just down to internet connection, as I've joined missions with 80+ items in my scrap (50+ over the amount). 

I think the limit only applied to items you've inspected or repaired/equipped, hence it telling you that it'll take up a salvage slot if you inspect/repair anything. 

It's a system they changed in one of their RJ overhauls.  It used to be that if you weren't host and had too much wreckage, it would start to load and then kick you out.  They've made it more forgiving (and reasonable) in recent updates.

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On 2021-07-31 at 8:31 PM, OniGrimm said:

Well duh. I want them to straight up admit:-"We don't want you to to have an ability to efficiently grind Steel Essence."

Well that is funny. You are not satisfied with the explanation because it, what? Because it is not worded as a direct insult to the exploiters?

Let me burst your bubble real quick mate, Sabotage never was More efficient than Survival for Steel Essence farm. Spawns are the same, timers are the same.

The ONLY, SINGULAR difference that all of you exploiters conveniently omit, is that you cannot Fail a Sabotage, because all of you stay After you have completed the objective. On the other hand Survival is Fail-able if you do not pay attention. Do you know that that makes you? No, it doesn't make you smarter, it is not even more Efficient than Survival, so what will it be then?

I will tell you, all of you that farmed Steel Essence in Sabotage for hours, instead of Survival, are just too scared to go to a real mission, where you have to use 2 extra braincells to achieve the same result. Steel path enemies always spawn as for 4 people so there is 0 difference in that too, except, in Survival they scale with time, so once again, you are scared of an actual fight :D

DE worded the "fix" saying "AFKs" instead of "exploiters" and yall jumped on that saying "but i moved and was killing stuff", trying to sound like a smartypants, as if them wording it wrong has anything to do with the actual problem.

Sabotage was never meant to be an endless mission, some even have 4 minute timer after objective completion, why do you think that is? Do you just assume that, because there is no time limit, it is endless? If there was, you were going to cry that you don't get acolyte to spawn on time....

Could the problem be solved in another way? Yes, ofc, DE should have never allowed Sabotage enemies to keep spawning infinitely after the objective is done, just how the Capture enemy spawns dry up after you get the target. The thing is, there is so much that could have been done to prevent this before even Steel Path existed, DE just Chose to look the other way. That doesn't mean you should abuse it!

You got your loot, do not complain you need to actually play the game as intended for once, just how a bank robber does not complain that they should let him go and steal from the bank again. You are not smart, just scared.

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Hey DE what's wrong with this picture?

I was in Arbitration Survival Infested on Deimos, I thought YES I'll get some more vitus Essence like in the past with this mission, sadly I was wrong. :sad:

  1.  I was in there 1 hour and 29 seconds, not the 1h 28m 40s the game shows on the left.
  2.  It wasn't until the 50 minute mark that a drone dropped 1 vitus essence with a booster = 2. I know some math lol
  3.  At the 56 minute mark another 1 dropped, that equals 2 +booster = 4 total so far, at the 1 hour mark I headed for extraction still with just 4 Vitus essence.
  4.  I got 10 vitus essence as an end of game reward, I'm blessed. 

DE you told us you were upping the vitus essence drop by introducing more drones, yes I saw a container ship load of drones, but nope not a single drop until the 50 minute mark.

DE you want to add new items into an old game mode, I don't mind, at least make it work, I'm old and playing that long for a pitiful 4 vitus essence is an insult to me and to RNG.

54 minute mark.

Warframe_54_minute_mark_2_vitus.png 

As I left at 1 hour 29 seconds mark.

Warframe_1_hour_mark_4_plus_round_reward 

Not happy to say the least. :facepalm::facepalm: 

Do I need to add this to a bug report or even a ticket? because SOMETHING is way off with your figures for how the system works out rewards.

RNG blah blah blah pfft. 

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2 minutes ago, SplitzyPrime said:

Took you guys way too long, too bad I quit.

Good luck on your game. Be better developers, instead of ones that ignore the playerbase.

Bye. Forever.

Don't be like that, it's a great game, regardless of my post above yours, I reckon it's a well thought out game, yes it has bugs and annoyances a lot of the time but it's the game I play and their are a lot worse ones out there. 

Cya, have fun in the next game you try. 👍

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1 hour ago, Do_High_Go said:

...

You got your loot, do not complain you need to actually play the game as intended for once, just how a bank robber does not complain that they should let him go and steal from the bank again. You are not smart, just scared.

 

So, I can get behind a lot of what you are saying...then I read this last paragraph and have to face palm.

 

The short of this is that DE stated at the jump that Steel Path was only going to be game mode where the rewards were 100% cosmetic.  Great.  They offered only a small amount of Steel Essence, dropped randomly, from eximus units at a very low rate.  This meant that earning the rewards was a pain, but having them was a display that you were capable of doing the high level content.  Great.

 

Then DE started to make riven shards a thing, and have non-cosmetic rewards hidden in the Steel Path.  Not as promised.  Moreover, people discovered exploits to efficiently farm Steel Essence.  Not great.  Their response was not to fix the level geometry, but to further break their own AI.  Now you have issues farming, and the response was not to evaluate why people would do this, but to intentionally break their own systems to prevent people from "exploiting" things to get a decent amount of a drop.

 

Now we stand with a guaranteed drop from the Acolytes...but they seem to be on a random spawn.  If you finish a mission too early they won't spawn.  If you complete the objectives even waiting won't generate a spawn.  If it's a bad day the Acolyte could spawn, and one shot you.  So....our primary method for farming is a maximum of 25 units per day to complete 5 random missions, and 2 per acolyte if they spawn.  So....the game is designed to be played solo, and solo players determined that there was a way to compensate for the bad design.  They had a single player mission, that you could get to the point of spawning acolytes, without fearing completing it.  What was broken, and what about this was "playing the mission in a way DE did not intend?'

So...are you psychic?  Do you know what DE intends?  That's a heck of a super power, given that they introduce things like the Galvanized mods and they are broken on implementation...so playing "how they intend" is pretty much a bad joke.

 

 

So.....how do we rectify this? 

Point one is simple.  DE could do what they said, and have more Acolyte spawns.  If people didn't have to wait five minutes for a spawn they wouldn't be searching for ways to minimize the miserable grind.  DE did promise this....and didn't deliver.

Point two is next.  How about instead of more RNG they offer a path for single players to grind?  You know, three potential spawns for non-infinite missions is basically admitting that this is their intended reward level... if they didn't have basic issues with their spawn rates.  Great...6 Steel Essence for grinding, or 5 for doing the daily mission set.  

Finally, point three.  Let us fight Acolytes specifically rather than as a semi-random spawn.  This will remove the people who want to play solo from having to grind timers...and if they put basic requirements in place they could actually force these missions to last longer than their five minute timer.  Yes, it'd be more efficient for solo players, but teams capable of grinding endless missions would be rewarded with more opportunities.  

 

What is not a solution?  Well, egotistical responses claiming to understand what DE intended, and then basically calling those who are frustrated with bad design and failures to deliver on promises are somehow dishonest or otherwise unreasonable.  Yeah.  The constructive argument is that DE could have made an incentive, and you start there.  The issue is that you then wind up disappearing into your own assumptions...and that failure invalidates a lot of good points at the finish line.  Ouch.

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Please continue to polish the Archmelee magnetism. In regular AW missions it is highly disorientating, imprecise and makes melee as mindless as it can be.
I don't know where I am basically, but if I mash the button, I will hit something while porting through / into / across half the map in one swing.
This is as bad as it gets.

Archmelee & Mod Extend suggestion: Make it have the magnetism in RJ only or connect it to the toggle in the controls menu. I think it was called "aim assist".

Edit: Dear DE, when I want back into my Necramech, I aim at it.  If I want just back into my frame, I don't. I don't want to be placed into whatever is closest. Happened during a Plains trip and I sure as hell don't want any more of these "we're making it easier for you / think for you" situations.

Edited by Silescere
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33 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Hey DE what's wrong with this picture?

I was in Arbitration Survival Infested on Deimos, I thought YES I'll get some more vitus Essence like in the past with this mission, sadly I was wrong. :sad:

  1.  I was in there 1 hour and 29 seconds, not the 1h 28m 40s the game shows on the left.
  2.  It wasn't until the 50 minute mark that a drone dropped 1 vitus essence with a booster = 2. I know some math lol
  3.  At the 56 minute mark another 1 dropped, that equals 2 +booster = 4 total so far, at the 1 hour mark I headed for extraction still with just 4 Vitus essence.
  4.  I got 10 vitus essence as an end of game reward, I'm blessed. 

DE you told us you were upping the vitus essence drop by introducing more drones, yes I saw a container ship load of drones, but nope not a single drop until the 50 minute mark.

DE you want to add new items into an old game mode, I don't mind, at least make it work, I'm old and playing that long for a pitiful 4 vitus essence is an insult to me and to RNG.

54 minute mark.

Warframe_54_minute_mark_2_vitus.png 

As I left at 1 hour 29 seconds mark.

Warframe_1_hour_mark_4_plus_round_reward 

Not happy to say the least. :facepalm::facepalm: 

Do I need to add this to a bug report or even a ticket? because SOMETHING is way off with your figures for how the system works out rewards.

RNG blah blah blah pfft. 

 

So...the RNG thing is an explanation.  It also isn't.  Let me put just a few things to that...assuming 50 minutes, with 3 drone kills per minute, the chance of not getting a spawn is 0.94^150....or 9.314*10^-5.  That's 0.00009 or 9 in 10,000 instances.  That is of course assuming you kill one drone every 20 seconds.  While this is a possibility, I do have a certain amount of consternation regarding their RNG.

 

Let me expand.  Recent events have led me to believe that their RNG generator is absolutely busted.  This would rather easily allow you to get these cases to happen, and more frighteningly would be impossible to detect without a rather large data set.  

 

 

The thing leading me to believe this is that:

  1. I received 3 Tenet Flux Rifle sisters in a row.  With 8 possible weapons, that's a 2 in 1000 likelihood (.125^3).  Not exactly likely.
  2. I have 24 arcane body guards.  The remainder are 17, 13, 13, and 13.  Each of these drops as 5%.  As rewards occur as A-A-B-C, the three easiest to earn should be body guard, pistoleer, and tanker.  The two hardest would be primary charger and blade charger, given they only appear in B and C rotations.  That's 17 tanker, 13 pistoleer, 24 body guard, 13 blade charger, and 13 primary charger.  That's pretty screwed up.
  3. 10% is the drop rate for a fully enriched relic.  I've literally run through 30 relics without a single rare, then manager to get two or three in a row.  That's entirely possible...but happens with such frequency that it seems less reasonable the longer I play.

 

 

So... at this point I'd like to understand their RNG engine.  It appears as though instead of being a true chance, there's some shaping.  That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest....but if they admitted this it'd likely be a scandal.  The kind of scandal that would require actual action....so we'll never get an answer.  Please note that I haven't seen DE answer the allegations which were made regarding their "randomly selected" weekly helminth selections....so I'd put money on never getting an honest answer.  Welcome to DE.

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16 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

So...the RNG thing is an explanation.  It also isn't.  Let me put just a few things to that...assuming 50 minutes, with 3 drone kills per minute, the chance of not getting a spawn is 0.94^150....or 9.314*10^-5.  That's 0.00009 or 9 in 10,000 instances.  That is of course assuming you kill one drone every 20 seconds.  While this is a possibility, I do have a certain amount of consternation regarding their RNG.

 

Let me expand.  Recent events have led me to believe that their RNG generator is absolutely busted.  This would rather easily allow you to get these cases to happen, and more frighteningly would be impossible to detect without a rather large data set.  

 

 

The thing leading me to believe this is that:

  1. I received 3 Tenet Flux Rifle sisters in a row.  With 8 possible weapons, that's a 2 in 1000 likelihood (.125^3).  Not exactly likely.
  2. I have 24 arcane body guards.  The remainder are 17, 13, 13, and 13.  Each of these drops as 5%.  As rewards occur as A-A-B-C, the three easiest to earn should be body guard, pistoleer, and tanker.  The two hardest would be primary charger and blade charger, given they only appear in B and C rotations.  That's 17 tanker, 13 pistoleer, 24 body guard, 13 blade charger, and 13 primary charger.  That's pretty screwed up.
  3. 10% is the drop rate for a fully enriched relic.  I've literally run through 30 relics without a single rare, then manager to get two or three in a row.  That's entirely possible...but happens with such frequency that it seems less reasonable the longer I play.

 

 

So... at this point I'd like to understand their RNG engine.  It appears as though instead of being a true chance, there's some shaping.  That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest....but if they admitted this it'd likely be a scandal.  The kind of scandal that would require actual action....so we'll never get an answer.  Please note that I haven't seen DE answer the allegations which were made regarding their "randomly selected" weekly helminth selections....so I'd put money on never getting an honest answer.  Welcome to DE.

All I see is it really sucks when I do a mission like that and only come out with 2 Vitus essence for an hours work, oh yeah a booster gave me 4 before end of mission reward. 😱 As Kamahl once said, why are people so unkind

Come on DE I'm looking at you, your RNG is sending me crazy.  NpS4c.gif

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12 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

All I see is it really sucks when I do a mission like that and only come out with 2 Vitus essence for an hours work, oh yeah a booster gave me 4 before end of mission reward. 😱 As Kamahl once said, why are people so unkind

Come on DE I'm looking at you, your RNG is sending me crazy.  NpS4c.gif

i did 30 min and got 16 Vitus

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1 hour ago, master_of_destiny said:

I have 24 arcane body guards.  The remainder are 17, 13, 13, and 13.  Each of these drops as 5%.  As rewards occur as A-A-B-C, the three easiest to earn should be body guard, pistoleer, and tanker.  The two hardest would be primary charger and blade charger, given they only appear in B and C rotations.  That's 17 tanker, 13 pistoleer, 24 body guard, 13 blade charger, and 13 primary charger.  That's pretty screwed up.

The arbitration rewards cycle is different, you get rewards as A-A-B-B-C-C-C-C-C-C-C... (unless it's a disruption arbitration).

Assuming you do significantly more than 4 rotations per run, you will get anything but bodyguard the more of them you do, and the C rotation is way more overweighted. On the contrary, if you only do 4 rotations (or fewer), Bodyguard is the most likely to drop, and all others are roughly equal. All others are also roughly equal if you go past 4 rotations.

Not trying to disprove the point in your post, I entirely agree it seems like the game's RNG seems to be working weird (lord farming parts for Protea, Khora, Ambassador and as a honorable mention Harrow systems are a pain, and I also remember what Cortege was like on release), but there's an explanation behind that specific point.

obligatory pls tweak ambassador drops kthx

Edited by Firmatorenio
mixed up morgha and cortege
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6 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

So, I can get behind a lot of what you are saying...then I read this last paragraph and have to face palm.

 

The short of this is that DE stated at the jump that Steel Path was only going to be game mode where the rewards were 100% cosmetic.  Great.  They offered only a small amount of Steel Essence, dropped randomly, from eximus units at a very low rate.  This meant that earning the rewards was a pain, but having them was a display that you were capable of doing the high level content.  Great.

 

Then DE started to make riven shards a thing, and have non-cosmetic rewards hidden in the Steel Path.  Not as promised.  Moreover, people discovered exploits to efficiently farm Steel Essence.  Not great.  Their response was not to fix the level geometry, but to further break their own AI.  Now you have issues farming, and the response was not to evaluate why people would do this, but to intentionally break their own systems to prevent people from "exploiting" things to get a decent amount of a drop.

 

Now we stand with a guaranteed drop from the Acolytes...but they seem to be on a random spawn.  If you finish a mission too early they won't spawn.  If you complete the objectives even waiting won't generate a spawn.  If it's a bad day the Acolyte could spawn, and one shot you.  So....our primary method for farming is a maximum of 25 units per day to complete 5 random missions, and 2 per acolyte if they spawn.  So....the game is designed to be played solo, and solo players determined that there was a way to compensate for the bad design.  They had a single player mission, that you could get to the point of spawning acolytes, without fearing completing it.  What was broken, and what about this was "playing the mission in a way DE did not intend?'

So...are you psychic?  Do you know what DE intends?  That's a heck of a super power, given that they introduce things like the Galvanized mods and they are broken on implementation...so playing "how they intend" is pretty much a bad joke.

 

 

So.....how do we rectify this? 

Point one is simple.  DE could do what they said, and have more Acolyte spawns.  If people didn't have to wait five minutes for a spawn they wouldn't be searching for ways to minimize the miserable grind.  DE did promise this....and didn't deliver.

Point two is next.  How about instead of more RNG they offer a path for single players to grind?  You know, three potential spawns for non-infinite missions is basically admitting that this is their intended reward level... if they didn't have basic issues with their spawn rates.  Great...6 Steel Essence for grinding, or 5 for doing the daily mission set.  

Finally, point three.  Let us fight Acolytes specifically rather than as a semi-random spawn.  This will remove the people who want to play solo from having to grind timers...and if they put basic requirements in place they could actually force these missions to last longer than their five minute timer.  Yes, it'd be more efficient for solo players, but teams capable of grinding endless missions would be rewarded with more opportunities.  

 

What is not a solution?  Well, egotistical responses claiming to understand what DE intended, and then basically calling those who are frustrated with bad design and failures to deliver on promises are somehow dishonest or otherwise unreasonable.  Yeah.  The constructive argument is that DE could have made an incentive, and you start there.  The issue is that you then wind up disappearing into your own assumptions...and that failure invalidates a lot of good points at the finish line.  Ouch.

 I get that you have your ideas of how to rectify the situation, but selectively misinterpreting my phrasing, will not telegraph your good intentions very well.

In my last paragraph, by saying "actually play the game as intended" I was referring to Sabotage missions not being intended to be endless, after all, if they were supposed to be endless, we would at least have sabotage rotations and new objectives, right?  I do not think i was wrong to deduce Sabotage was indeed not intended to be endless, and that is what I meant. The people that want endless long mission can always go to Survival, because it is clear it was intended to be used that way.

I respectfully deny that an "assumption" of mine about something that is supposed to be common sense, can invalidate even half of what I said.

Exactly because I Do Not understand what DE intends, I refrained of adding 4 paragraphs of possible solutions. It is pointless in the end, we don't work at DE and our ideas, as good or bad as they may be, are mostly (but maybe not completely) wasted.

I have observed many people bombarding the Forum with every single possible idea, and the following permutations of those ideas, and then when DE takes an action, those people claim they gave the idea, which is the most silly thing I have ever seen, as if saying every word in the dictionary once means you gave an author the basis for his book and now you are due credit.

Well, egotistical responses claiming to understand how a game system works, and then proceeding to propose removing the "strong baddie comes out of nowhere and slaps you in the mission" and making it, basically from what i understand, a standalone Boss fight is, what? Disappearing in your own assumptions of how the game mode was meant to be, or rather should i say, proposing to make it how You wish it was, disregarding established ideas that can be extrapolated with common sense. I cannot put my finger on which is worse.

Also i would like to add, there is quite a big difference between, failing to exploit-proof a game system, and releasing buggy not working content. One requires careful adjustment of existing values, the other, creating those values and hooking them up in the system.

I am Not a programmer, but i have dabbled and studied coding, so I know i thing or two about how those stuff work. Not that you need to understand coding prior to being able to grasp what was the purpose of something and what wasn't.

You seem to enjoy using complicated words to burn someone using a point originating from your poor reading comprehension, only to promote your ideas sandwiched between bigoted writing. There was nothing of constructive value in what you said since it is full of hypocrisy.

Being frustrated with bad design is one thing, being mad that you are not allowed to exploit further - a completely different thing, I hope you can perceive that.

Maybe I was not clear enough, but even then, Your entire point was that I assumed what the intention was, Yet You Assumed what My Intention Was. Hypocrisy!

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7 hours ago, Firmatorenio said:

The arbitration rewards cycle is different, you get rewards as A-A-B-B-C-C-C-C-C-C-C... (unless it's a disruption arbitration).

Assuming you do significantly more than 4 rotations per run, you will get anything but bodyguard the more of them you do, and the C rotation is way more overweighted. On the contrary, if you only do 4 rotations (or fewer), Bodyguard is the most likely to drop, and all others are roughly equal. All others are also roughly equal if you go past 4 rotations.

Not trying to disprove the point in your post, I entirely agree it seems like the game's RNG seems to be working weird (lord farming parts for Protea, Khora, Ambassador and as a honorable mention Harrow systems are a pain, and I also remember what Cortege was like on release), but there's an explanation behind that specific point.

obligatory pls tweak ambassador drops kthx

To answer this...I run random groups.  Most of them fail at the 4-6 rewards cycles period...meaning that most of the time I get 2 A and 2 B with maybe a couple of Cs assuming I'm lucky.  This is where I was coming from.

 

I don't discount this...and acknowledge that you're not arguing.  I simply want to explain where I'm coming from to come to my weightings on A and B being as they were.

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On 2021-07-29 at 7:09 PM, Inquizitor said:

Alt fire of certain weapons are quite annoying in certain scenarios and cant be disabled. This is most significant with weapons like Tenet Diplos, when one just wants to use "aimed/scoped" fire for more accuracy, and this lock-on thing kicks in unwantedly, this mechanic should instead work the same way that Sepulcrum works (Toggle homing on/off). Same thing for the guided projectile of Tenet Envoy. Also Kuva Quartakk, aimed mode switches fire (and Quatz).
I propose that these alt fire type modes are instead optional and are toggled ON/OFF with respective "alt fire button" for better consistency. All weapons that switches fire mode entirely should be on toggle (Stradavar Prime, Argonak, Tiberon Prime, Hind, Zarr and other weapons as such are perfect examples of how it should work). Normal/Kuva Seer should be given optional scope mechanic (same thing like you can change zoom levels on sniper rifles). Alt fire of weapons that does not directly affect the primary fire firing mechanism and are used instantly are also fine as is (such as instant burst functions of Pandero, Kuva Kraken, Kuva Detron, or detonations of projectiles like Bramma, Talons, Kulstar, etc.).

This so much ! 

 

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2 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

 I get that you have your ideas of how to rectify the situation, but selectively misinterpreting my phrasing, will not telegraph your good intentions very well.

In my last paragraph, by saying "actually play the game as intended" I was referring to Sabotage missions not being intended to be endless, after all, if they were supposed to be endless, we would at least have sabotage rotations and new objectives, right?  I do not think i was wrong to deduce Sabotage was indeed not intended to be endless, and that is what I meant. The people that want endless long mission can always go to Survival, because it is clear it was intended to be used that way.

I respectfully deny that an "assumption" of mine about something that is supposed to be common sense, can invalidate even half of what I said.

Exactly because I Do Not understand what DE intends, I refrained of adding 4 paragraphs of possible solutions. It is pointless in the end, we don't work at DE and our ideas, as good or bad as they may be, are mostly (but maybe not completely) wasted.

I have observed many people bombarding the Forum with every single possible idea, and the following permutations of those ideas, and then when DE takes an action, those people claim they gave the idea, which is the most silly thing I have ever seen, as if saying every word in the dictionary once means you gave an author the basis for his book and now you are due credit.

Well, egotistical responses claiming to understand how a game system works, and then proceeding to propose removing the "strong baddie comes out of nowhere and slaps you in the mission" and making it, basically from what i understand, a standalone Boss fight is, what? Disappearing in your own assumptions of how the game mode was meant to be, or rather should i say, proposing to make it how You wish it was, disregarding established ideas that can be extrapolated with common sense. I cannot put my finger on which is worse.

Also i would like to add, there is quite a big difference between, failing to exploit-proof a game system, and releasing buggy not working content. One requires careful adjustment of existing values, the other, creating those values and hooking them up in the system.

I am Not a programmer, but i have dabbled and studied coding, so I know i thing or two about how those stuff work. Not that you need to understand coding prior to being able to grasp what was the purpose of something and what wasn't.

You seem to enjoy using complicated words to burn someone using a point originating from your poor reading comprehension, only to promote your ideas sandwiched between bigoted writing. There was nothing of constructive value in what you said since it is full of hypocrisy.

Being frustrated with bad design is one thing, being mad that you are not allowed to exploit further - a completely different thing, I hope you can perceive that.

Maybe I was not clear enough, but even then, Your entire point was that I assumed what the intention was, Yet You Assumed what My Intention Was. Hypocrisy!

 

Let's keep this snappy.  You seem to have criticism, then do what you say is unreasonable.  Let's keep that in our back pocket.

 

If you state that you "should play the game as intended," and finish by the assertion that people "are surprised that bank robbers are not invited back into banks" then you've got some very deep issues about what you are assuming about other players.

Likewise, programming knowledge means nothing.  I can do basic programming...but that means absolutely nothing.  It's a diversion from the reality.  The reality is that companies like DE have a QA department to test for stuff that s broken...and they either are incompetent or they are not given the time to do any real testing.  This is my point with the galvanized mods...and despite this you want to claim knowledge of intent.

 

 

You're welcome to continue to argue this...my intention was only to highlight that while I agreed with most of what you said, you killed your argument at the finish line with statements which were at best conjecture.  At worst, and from the tone, they seem to be hatred for other players who do not have psychic gifts or the ability to divine what a publisher desires.

To extend your own example, I programmed an x-y table to create a circle.  It created a mostly circle, but due to internal rounding errors it didn't start and end in the same spot.  If you walked in on the project, given the poor definition of the x-y table, it was maybe possible to make out a circle....but it could also have been a geometric spiral.  You assign intent to a system...and it doesn't match with the actual mechanics.  Your argument would have been infinitely better divorced from that last paragraph.

 

 

 

Instead of taking this, you want to argue.  Fine.  You win.  Next time I'll let somebody less reasonable fight with you.  My intention was to highlight that DE lied about the systems, and your assignment of blame to players was backwards when the fix was something in DE's reach.  That seems to be unfair...so I acquiesce.  You get the final word...and I look forward to the eventual flame war that will inevitably follow.  It's a necessary next step, when failures by the developer are laid upon the players.

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14 hours ago, SplitzyPrime said:

Took you guys way too long, too bad I quit.

Good luck on your game. Be better developers, instead of ones that ignore the playerbase.

Bye. Forever.

If you quit then stop trolling the forums....

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