Venyxos Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 [After monkeying around with the Gear wheel in your Equipment interface more, I can confirm two points which make most of my elaboration unnecessary... 1st, you can drag and drop items in this interface to organize things much more quickly (as informed in later comments! thanks again!). 2nd being as long as there is no conflict among the items you're attempting to equip, you can equip as many things as you'd like - if you have an empty slot higher in the wheel, particularly in the hotkey slots, you won't have the "add new item" spot on the end of the wheel, which is likely what led me to believe there is some kind of cap to how many items you can equip to your Gear/Emote wheels... Therefore, my suggestion can be reduced to: could there be some customizable categories you can add to your gear wheel like items, but when selected, open another gear wheel with the items you added to it - like say a bait wheel. The additional wheels could "borrow" hotkey assignments for punching through them quickly if the category is assigned to a hotkey spot. Also, either way, adding Gear/Emote "Loadouts" would be clutch - then players could have multiple bag sets (like a mission set, a hunting/gathering set, just dance moves, etc) - Thanks!]The gear wheel/gear in general is so close, but still so far... While the spiral design and hotkeys serve their purpose, the system could be vastly improved without changing much about the functionality and presentation. (how much work for Devs that would be, I couldn't even speculate) Suggestion: Dial-A-Tool 1st - Keep the existing "rotary-selection" for gear/vehicles and emotes - plus the the sub-gear interface IN a mission, while you're actively using the gear [see fishing/hunting usage in free roam]... If anything, add to other gear (like a Sim/Codex Scanner Swap or a drop trap key, as if bait, instead of having Sim Traps as a whole separate item) (also, bear in mind, those no simple way to hotkey baits and what not if you're farming hunts or fishing - not without redoing your gear wheel at least twice) 2nd - Make it so you can drag and drop or otherwise reorder stuff into different locations (vs replacing them one by one like an old CD/DVD rack you keep alphabetized when equipping from arsenal to your gear wheel) 3rd - I suggest categorizing -ALL- gear into various toolboxes and/or kits - so for everything a place and a place for everything A - Ex: All Specters in one, All Fishing Poles/Bait in another (not separate poles), Both Scanners/Traps in their own, Vehicles, Dragon Keys, Anti-Toxins, Health Kits and so on... (you should still be able to open these categories to look what you have, tag a favorite, assign a specific item vs category, etc... from the Arsenal > Gear interface) B - So with virtually everything tucked under a Category - even odd balls, like the Mining Lasers currently - you could then select gear after selecting a category... C - Thus "dialing up" your gear to deploy or utilize... 1 - So you would first select the main category from the first wheel, then the item you want in a secondary wheel (with possibly more) ...not a whole lot different (except for being seamless) from picking a fishing pole, then picking your bait once the fishing interface is up during a free roam mission ...you still needed two wheels to access your bait, unless you set up your gear wheel around fishing, using up a large portion of spots just for your tackle 2 - consider "Health Kits/Squad Deployables aka 'pizzas'/Stims" - Lets say all 20-somthing items are under one main category - "Medical" or whatever... ...to select a Large Squad Health Pizza you would "dial" Medical > Pizza > Health > Large ...to select a Calcify Stim you would "dial" Medical > Stim > Calc ...to select your K-Drive, Heavy Weapon, Archwing, Necramech, or Air Support you would "dial" Vehicle > whichever of those things... ...so each category would be somewhat different and each item a different sequence you would "dial" 3a - To maintain the "Hot Key" function of favorite items, simply make a favorites list... ...pushing Hotkey 1 would equip Favorite 1, Hotkey 2 equips Favorite 2... EZ PZ ...which could be a category or specific item ...this is more or less exactly how the hotkeys work now, except its the "top slots" of the rotary menu... 3b - HOWEVER! I propose this instead: a - making the favorites list a category: Favorites (or like, Bat-Belt) b - keeping a similar, hotkey 1 = SLOT 1, hotkey 2 = SLOT 2, and so on, up to the current 12 we have c - make each category, regardless of how many 'levels' deep, such as with the Large Squad Health Pizza Example, organized so 1 is 1, 2 is 2, so on - makes sense, right? lol d - players can order their toolkits to either "rotary dial" or "T12 dial" their equipment... EXAMPLE - Hotkey dial a Large Squad Health Pizza!! - I set my Medical category (with the stims, pizzas, and health kits in it - maybe some other stuff) set to spot 1... - Within the Medical category, I set my Health kits to 1 for solo use and Pizzas to 2 for Squad use... - Within Pizzas, I set Health toppings to 1; and then within Health, I set Large to 1, Medium to 2, etc... - So using only Hotkeys I press 1-2-1-1, which maybe/maybe not flicks thru the gear menu as fast as I can push them and boom, out pops the pizza... - To order a small, I press 1-2-1-3, since that's what I assigned it to... Of course, DE should have practical defaults but this is why an easy to reorder feature is crucial --- Now, if I used my mouse to rotary dial, I would have pressed my Gear Wheel Hotkey, I'd have just selected the appropriate wedge - 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st (rotary IS slower) EXAMPLE - Using Favorites as a Category!! - Running with the Large Squad Health Pizza Example, sequence included above, I could just as easily use my "Favorites Belt" to select the appropriate pizza... - Let's say I set my Favorites Belt to 1st Category - Hot Slot 2 (remember, I set my Medical to slot 1, 1st category, in the above example - we're going to use that sequence again) - Within my Favorites Belt, I set Large Squad Health Pizza to 1, and set the sub-category for Squad Health Pizzas of all sizes to slot 2 - ...Cause with Favorites, I can assign whatever I want to wherever I want, right? - So now! I can dial, all with the same uber-simple system, a Large Squad Health Pizza 3 different ways: - The above 1-2-1-1 using the Medical Category - Simply push 2-1 for Favorites > Large Squad Health Pizza - Push 2-2-1 for Favorites > Squad Health Pizza > Large - or just as easily hit 2 for a medium... 3c - A blend... Where its assumed your top "first/main wheel" selections ARE your favorites, and you can simply stick a specific item or bookmark to a category wherever you wish on at least the first gear wheel opened upon pressing the gear wheel hotkey or entering the gear wheel editor through your arsenal menu... You could even allow more than 12 items on the "main wheel" just like you do now which can only be manually dialed up on the rotary menu (basically, if any menu has more than 12 items in it, you would have to allow for it to be manually selected with the gear wheel, otherwise, you could navigate the whole thing with existing keybinds)... 4 - the same could be done with emotes, categories like dancing, martial arts, communication, event, etc NOTES!! - Dragon Keys -should- have an activation menu (0-4 active keys) every time you go to ready up for a mission which has them no differently than Void Relics - whether this system or anything like it is implemented or not. - The same could be done for any similar gear, thus removing the requirement for a lot of "gear assignment" entirely such as Apothics, Antitoxins, Pherliac Pods, etc - Going to Earth? Pick an Apothic... Doing an Earth Sabotage - Pick an Anti-Toxin too... Now you no longer have to clog your gear/remember to select/change one - Or allow players to pick IN the mission instead of before, like with Apothics and Antitoxins... - Do all these different kinds of keys which affect niche drops sounds a bit clunky? Perhaps it is and needs to be revisited altogether... - OR have a subset of categories that do not appear on your mission gear wheel for things like Apothics and what have you, which allow you to toggle which are active and/or "equipped" and they just apply when you do a mission involving them (so dragon keys only bog you down on Diemos)... Loosely Related Gear Suggestions: - Specters - For added control over your specters -maybe make them "carry" that gold ball (looks like a Harry Potter Snitch/Pokeball) and when you tell them to "hold position" - they drop it, allowing you to pick up and place it where you want them to stand or carry it back to them and allowing you to choose "Follow" again... -and/or have them respond to your map markers - Load-Out Pods/Care Packages: Expensive Deployables with long cooldown timers which allow you to swap out your loadout or companion - perhaps simply reviving them... - One option is you pre-select "swaps" for your equipment slots... A primary to replace your primary, a melee to replace you melee, a companion to replace your companions - Another is their more like the Equipment Menu itself that could be deployed with a number of pre-selected loadouts - your warframe steps in, the loadout contained steps out... - Both - Rail Jack strafing runs and bombing sorties --- why not call in some indirect fire support from your Rail Jack (expensive consumable with a long mission cooldown timer) - GRENADES! Maybe change some secondary weapons to gear selections - like throwing knives, bomblets, mines, traps, etc - Go nuts... Vauban is just the Exalted mine guy now (and still the ultimate Specter - willing to do any mission for you, micro-managing his traps with ease!) Also, there is absolutely no reason why Gear can't be modded - after all, K-Drives, Archwings, etc all have mods - More Visors/Scanners - And maybe change them from a piece of gear which you equip like a weapon, make them toggled modes which just run if turned on... - Like X-ray goggles which shows the level semi-translucent and your enemies nearly invisible simply for finding secret rooms and lockers; or ignoring enemies and sprinting from A to B... - Night Vision - something that makes JUST darker areas brighter (I know you have the light mechanics factored in already, Devs!) - Sometimes adjusting brightness/contrast or the built in flashlight just don't cut it - you either have crazy glare or flattened color palettes (I play 45 Brightness, 65 Contrast) - Maybe just have the Codex scanner fulfill this function (the green filter ALMOST does it naturally) - Sunglasses - something that makes JUST brighter areas darker... - The Simaris Scanner could fulfill this function (the orange filter ALMOST does it naturally) - Thermal - something that highlights traps, area of effect conditions, spawning doors vs sealed, invisible enemies, etc - stuff that shows "hidden" gameplay mechanics - Select Tracking Assignments from your Codex... - It would be cool if we could set visual cues for seeking specific enemies, resources, or even mission objectives and map markers similar to tracking a simaris target or a free roam hunt - Even basic pointers and/or map/UI blips and cues would be really neat - Targeting - Like a sniper scope you could use for any weapon, or binoculars... Maybe even simply give people the option to play first person? - Situational Awareness - A visor mode which incorporates your mission details, like runtime, loot collected, enemies slain, likelihood of a special spawn into your normal HUD - Target Data - Like the simaris scanner, but why not make this an "Inspect Player" function, which allows you to see all the "Link Look in Chat" and "Link Config in Chat" buttons on someone - Or if an NPC, your player stats on it - how many killed, what drops from it and in what frequency, etc - [edit] Oh! And an Echolocator - renders the game in a dark grey scale and turns up the volume - add lil volume equalizes, pings from noise sources, and pointers - boom: play via the sounds of Warframe! Useful in hunt missions or locating hidden caches and what have you. - A deployable Ludoplex to challenge your friends to Frame Fighter in the middle of a Defense farm while Specter Vauban Prime does your Mission Objective for you!! JK lol - A towel - because you should always bring one Thanks for reading! -V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turritopsis_Dohrnii Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Venyxos said: 2nd - Make it so you can drag and drop or otherwise reorder stuff into different locations Pretty sure you can do this - but not inside of a mission. Otherwise, great suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen77 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 And then I started scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling........ I honestly have no clue, maybe you have good points in there, but not today, best of luck with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 maybe it's how it's worded, but this sounds way more complex than what we already have. with the current system, you put something in a slot, memorize it, and then just go to that slot on the gear wheel and press a button. simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said: maybe it's how it's worded, but this sounds way more complex than what we already have. with the current system, you put something in a slot, memorize it, and then just go to that slot on the gear wheel and press a button. simples. So the it works now is you go through a list of about 70 items which can be assigned to about 2 dozen gear slots... It's not limitless but I forget the cap. Anyhow, many of these items are conditional, such as keys, antitoxins for Earth Sabotage missions, etc... Others are redundant - like the mining lasers and fishing tackle. The mining lasers become obsolete and you only need one, but other things like fishing poles can become a mess if you wanna have hot keys for fish farming. Some types of equipment, you just have literally dozens of variations... Like specters and squad deployables... You can assign a bunch of different ones to different slots for variety, You can always argue just equip the biggest/best to a slot and forget about it, but its just a shame that a ton of really cool gameplay features are effectively buried in poor organization or simply being obsolete... Beyond that, its annoying when you forget to equip a key or forget to unequip them or similar... If they categorized their equipment, and utilized sub-gear selection like you see in hunting and fishing, we could easily have all these small take em or leave em gameplay mechanics at our disposal... Otherwise, my system isn't tremendously different than how it exists, and as I presented it, you could just as easily "put something in a slot, memorize it, and then just go to that slot on the gear wheel and press a button." as one does now - however, you could just as easily organize your gear wheel to quickly rotate specters; pop different squad deployables more readily; not give up half your gear hotkeys to vehicle assignments... things like that And either way, the gear selection menu in the arsenal menu is a mess - everything from pherliac pods to archwing launchers to health kits... its like where DE sticks whatever feature they didn't make an orbiter node for, lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroX4 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Venyxos said: The gear wheel/gear in general is so close, but still so far... While the spiral design and hotkeys serve their purpose, the system could be vastly improved without changing much about the functionality and presentation. (how much work for Devs that would be, I couldn't even speculate) Suggestion: Dial-A-Tool 1st - Keep the existing "rotary-selection" for gear/vehicles and emotes - plus the the sub-gear interface IN a mission, while you're actively using the gear... If anything, add to other gear (like a Sim/Codex Scanner Swap or a drop trap key, as if bait, instead of having Sim Traps as a whole separate item) 2nd - Make it so you can drag and drop or otherwise reorder stuff into different locations (vs replacing them one by one like an old CD/DVD rack you keep alphabetized when equipping from arsenal to your gear wheel) 3rd - I suggest categorizing -ALL- gear into various toolboxes and/or kits - so for everything a place and a place for everything A - Ex: All Specters in one, All Fishing Poles/Bait in another (not separate poles), Both Scanners/Traps in their own, Vehicles, Dragon Keys, Anti-Toxins, Health Kits and so on... (you should still be able to open these categories to look what you have, tag a favorite, assign a specific item vs category, etc... from the Arsenal > Gear interface) B - So with virtually everything tucked under a Category - even odd balls, like the Mining Lasers currently - you could then select gear after selecting a category... C - Thus "dialing up" your gear to deploy or utilize... 1 - So you would first select the main category from the first wheel, then the item you want in a secondary wheel (with possibly more) ...not a whole lot different (except for being seamless) from picking a fishing pole, then picking your bait once the fishing interface is up during a free roam mission ...you still needed two wheels to access your bait, unless you set up your gear wheel around fishing, using up a large portion of spots just for your tackle 2 - consider "Health Kits/Squad Deployables aka 'pizzas'/Stims" - Lets say all 20-somthing items are under one main category - "Medical" or whatever... ...to select a Large Squad Health Pizza you would "dial" Medical > Pizza > Health > Large ...to select a Calcify Stim you would "dial" Medical > Stim > Calc ...to select your K-Drive, Heavy Weapon, Archwing, Necramech, or Air Support you would "dial" Vehicle > whichever of those things... ...so each category would be somewhat different and each item a different sequence you would "dial" 3a - To maintain the "Hot Key" function of favorite items, simply make a favorites list... ...pushing Hotkey 1 would equip Favorite 1, Hotkey 2 equips Favorite 2... EZ PZ ...which could be a category or specific item ...this is more or less exactly how the hotkeys work now, except its the "top slots" of the rotary menu... 3b - HOWEVER! I propose this instead: a - making the favorites list a category: Favorites (or like, Bat-Belt) b - keeping a similar, hotkey 1 = SLOT 1, hotkey 2 = SLOT 2, and so on, up to the current 12 we have c - make each category, regardless of how many 'levels' deep, such as with the Large Squad Health Pizza Example, organized so 1 is 1, 2 is 2, so on - makes sense, right? lol d - players can order their toolkits to either "rotary dial" or "T12 dial" their equipment... EXAMPLE - Hotkey dial a Large Squad Health Pizza!! - I set my Medical category (with the stims, pizzas, and health kits in it - maybe some other stuff) set to spot 1... - Within the Medical category, I set my Health kits to 1 for solo use and Pizzas to 2 for Squad use... - Within Pizzas, I set Health toppings to 1; and then within Health, I set Large to 1, Medium to 2, etc... - So using only Hotkeys I press 1-2-1-1, which maybe/maybe not flicks thru the gear menu as fast as I can push them and boom, out pops the pizza... - To order a small, I press 1-2-1-3, since that's what I assigned it to... Of course, DE should have practical defaults but this is why an easy to reorder feature is crucial --- Now, if I used my mouse to rotary dial, I would have pressed my Gear Wheel Hotkey, I'd have just selected the appropriate wedge - 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st (rotary IS slower) EXAMPLE - Using Favorites as a Category!! - Running with the Large Squad Health Pizza Example, sequence included above, I could just as easily use my "Favorites Belt" to select the appropriate pizza... - Let's say I set my Favorites Belt to 1st Category - Hot Slot 2 (remember, I set my Medical to slot 1, 1st category, in the above example - we're going to use that sequence again) - Within my Favorites Belt, I set Large Squad Health Pizza to 1, and set the sub-category for Squad Health Pizzas of all sizes to slot 2 - ...Cause with Favorites, I can assign whatever I want to wherever I want, right? - So now! I can dial, all with the same uber-simple system, a Large Squad Health Pizza 3 different ways: - The above 1-2-1-1 using the Medical Category - Simply push 2-1 for Favorites > Large Squad Health Pizza - Push 2-2-1 for Favorites > Squad Health Pizza > Large - or just as easily hit 2 for a medium... 3c - A blend... Where its assumed your top "first/main wheel" selections ARE your favorites, and you can simply stick a specific item or bookmark to a category wherever you wish on at least the first gear wheel opened upon pressing the gear wheel hotkey or entering the gear wheel editor through your arsenal menu... You could even allow more than 12 items on the "main wheel" just like you do now which can only be manually dialed up on the rotary menu (basically, if any menu has more than 12 items in it, you would have to allow for it to be manually selected with the gear wheel, otherwise, you could navigate the whole thing with existing keybinds)... 4 - the same could be done with emotes, categories like dancing, martial arts, communication, event, etc NOTES!! - Dragon Keys -should- have an activation menu (0-4 active keys) every time you go to ready up for a mission which has them no differently than relics whether this system or anything like it is implemented or not. - You -could- do the same for any similar gear, thus removing the requirement for a lot of "gear assignment" entirely such as Apothics, Antitoxins, Pherliac Pods, etc - Going to Earth? Pick an Apothic... Doing an Earth Sabotage - Pick an Anti-Toxin too... Now you no longer have to clog your gear/remember to select one - Or allow players to pick IN-mission, where various mission specific keys and what have you are kept... - Do all these different kinds of keys which affect niche drops sounds a bit clunky? Perhaps it is and needs to be revisited altogether... - OR have a subset of categories that do not appear on your mission gear wheel for things like Apothics and what have you, which allow you to toggle which are active and/or "equipped" and they just apply when you do a mission involving them... Loosely Related Gear Suggestions: - Specters - For added control over your specters -maybe make them "carry" that gold ball (looks like a Harry Potter Snitch/Pokeball) and when you tell them to "hold position" - they drop it, allowing you to pick up and place it where you want them to stand or carry it back to them and allowing you to choose "Follow" again... -and/or have them respond to your map markers - Load-Out Pods/Care Packages: Expensive Deployables with long cooldown timers which allow you to swap out your loadout or companion - perhaps simply reviving them... - One option is you pre-select "swaps" for your equipment slots... A primary to replace your primary, a melee to replace you melee, a companion to replace your companions - Another is their more like the Equipment Menu itself that could be deployed with a number of pre-selected loadouts - your warframe steps in, the loadout contained steps out... - Both - Rail Jack strafing runs and bombing sorties --- why not call in some indirect fire support from your Rail Jack (expensive consumable with a long mission cooldown timer) - GRENADES! Maybe change some secondary weapons to gear selections - like throwing knives, bomblets, mines, traps, etc - Go nuts... Vauban is just the Exalted mine guy now (and still the ultimate Specter - willing to do any mission for you, micro-managing his traps with ease!) Also, there is absolutely no reason why Gear can't be modded - after all, K-Drives, Archwings, etc all have mods - More Visors/Scanners - And maybe change them from a piece of gear which you equip like a weapon, make them toggled modes which just run if turned on... - Like X-ray goggles which shows the level semi-translucent and your enemies nearly invisible simply for finding secret rooms and lockers; or ignoring enemies and sprinting from A to B... - Night Vision - something that makes JUST darker areas brighter (I know you have the light mechanics factored in already, Devs!) - Sometimes adjusting brightness/contrast or the built in flashlight just don't cut it - you either have crazy glare or flattened color palettes (I play 45 Brightness, 65 Contrast) - Maybe just have the Codex scanner fulfill this function (the green filter ALMOST does it naturally) - Sunglasses - something that makes JUST brighter areas darker... - The Simaris Scanner could fulfill this function (the orange filter ALMOST does it naturally) - Thermal - something that highlights traps, area of effect conditions, spawning doors vs sealed, invisible enemies, etc - stuff that shows "hidden" gameplay mechanics - Select Tracking Assignments from your Codex... - It would be cool if we could set visual cues for seeking specific enemies, resources, or even mission objectives and map markers similar to tracking a simaris target or a free roam hunt - Even basic pointers and/or map/UI blips and cues would be really neat - Targeting - Like a sniper scope you could use for any weapon, or binoculars... Maybe even simply give people the option to play first person? - Situational Awareness - A visor mode which incorporates your mission details, like runtime, loot collected, enemies slain, likelihood of a special spawn into your normal HUD - Target Data - Like the simaris scanner, but why not make this an "Inspect Player" function, which allows you to see all the "Link Look in Chat" and "Link Config in Chat" buttons on someone - Or if an NPC, your player stats on it - how many killed, what drops from it and in what frequency, etc - [edit] Oh! And an Echolocator - renders the game in a dark grey scale and turns up the volume - add lil volume equalizes, pings from noise sources, and pointers - boom: play via the sounds of Warframe! Useful in hunt missions or locating hidden caches and what have you. - A deployable Ludoplex to challenge your friends to Frame Fighter in the middle of a Defense farm while Specter Vauban Prime does your Mission Objective for you!! JK lol - A towel - because you should always bring one Thanks for reading! -V Sorry im too lazy to read that whole wall of text But reading some of it i didnt see it so i present u with my idea i once had If u hold gear wheel button you cant click RMB to switch to emotes wheel Why not just RMB for emotes wheel and LMB to gear wheel 1, 2, 3, 4, ,5............ And there would be no need for spiral anymore And we could organize stuff to be in exactly same place always just on different wheel And most of what you propose would be needless Not that i think your ideas are bad i just think what i propose fixes most of it at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 5 hours ago, ZeroX4 said: Why not just RMB for emotes wheel and LMB to gear wheel 1, 2, 3, 4, ,5............ And there would be no need for spiral anymore And we could organize stuff to be in exactly same place always just on different wheel And most of what you propose would be needless Not that i think your ideas are bad i just think what i propose fixes most of it at once I think we more or less have the same idea truthfully, and your idea helps illustrate mine - Follow me: If we had gear broken down into categories (like Medical, Keys, Specters, Vehicles, Fishing, Hunting, Etc) we likely wouldn't need the 3 curls deep "spiral" we currently have... Most categories would just present a 12 item or less list on a rotary menu which console and PC players alike may use to select gear manually OR simply punch a hotkey for... (like, tons of games have radial selectors - generally for gamepad/controller sticks... Think Gears of War inventory, thats also a radial menu) In other words, like we're both saying (more or less), if they categorized gear into sub-menus, you wouldn't need to spiral through -anything- and still have your entire gearset (more than ever actually) available during a mission... You could just as easily have RMB/LMB shifters (which like you say, they currently have already) but that doesn't necessarily maintain having hotkeys per se without additional considerations... For example, with your idea, maybe the tab you jump to could be hot-keyed somehow In my OP ramble... (which closes with an additional ramble on gear ideas I think would be neat to add to the existing gear since I believe our idea would make it easier for players to organize and utilize their gear and therefore, could field a larger array of equipment - nothing would be "buried" necessarily) ...I go on to explain how you could simply have primary, secondary, tertiary wheels - none of which need to have a "spiral" and/or take the "wheel" you're looking at beyond 12 items or categories - 12 being the number of hotkeys a keyboard has across its top row and therefore the number of existing gear/emote hotkeys we have as keybindings... Basically, instead of a spiral (which you could absolutely still have for redundancy, or possibly out of necessity with certain categories, like specters), just break them into increasingly more specific wheels or rotary menus... Or as you say, different "pages" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroX4 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 51 minutes ago, Venyxos said: I think we more or less have the same idea truthfully, and your idea helps illustrate mine - Follow me: If we had gear broken down into categories (like Medical, Keys, Specters, Vehicles, Fishing, Hunting, Etc) we likely wouldn't need the 3 curls deep "spiral" we currently have... Most categories would just present a 12 item or less list on a rotary menu which console and PC players alike may use to select gear manually OR simply punch a hotkey for... (like, tons of games have radial selectors - generally for gamepad/controller sticks... Think Gears of War inventory, thats also a radial menu) In other words, like we're both saying (more or less), if they categorized gear into sub-menus, you wouldn't need to spiral through -anything- and still have your entire gearset (more than ever actually) available during a mission... You could just as easily have RMB/LMB shifters (which like you say, they currently have already) but that doesn't necessarily maintain having hotkeys per se without additional considerations... For example, with your idea, maybe the tab you jump to could be hot-keyed somehow In my OP ramble... (which closes with an additional ramble on gear ideas I think would be neat to add to the existing gear since I believe our idea would make it easier for players to organize and utilize their gear and therefore, could field a larger array of equipment - nothing would be "buried" necessarily) ...I go on to explain how you could simply have primary, secondary, tertiary wheels - none of which need to have a "spiral" and/or take the "wheel" you're looking at beyond 12 items or categories - 12 being the number of hotkeys a keyboard has across its top row and therefore the number of existing gear/emote hotkeys we have as keybindings... Basically, instead of a spiral (which you could absolutely still have for redundancy, or possibly out of necessity with certain categories, like specters), just break them into increasingly more specific wheels or rotary menus... Or as you say, different "pages" NEVER EVER propose something that will limit you or any1 else If we would have wheel 1 2 3 4 5... we could make categories ourselves while we could use up the space as we please If we had categories some of us would be locked with 1 or 3 empty wheels And for crying out loud even button in the center to switch wheels or 1 2 3 4 buttons above wheel would do the trick I dont really care i just feel what have now is like here u have big bag throw your crap into it and gtfo There are so many addons or crap like that in windows mac chrome firefox or whatever else to organize our crap i dont understand why warframe cant have one Anyway i dont wanna say your idea is bad i just say it could be implement in a better way Categories is not bad idea but if i need like only 2 keys in keys category then i waste 10 other slots for it If we can arrange it at will while having different sets of wheels which we could cycle trough that would solve more problems than u presented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Holy wall of text batman! While I understand the intention is better inventory management / easy access to essential tools. I do not think this is necessarily simpler than what we already have. There are 9 hotkeys , I rarely use more than 4 in a mission (of course others may be more gear heavy users). So having to remember a 4 digit code , which is easy to accidentally get wrong in a button press heavy game like warframe, would only frustrate me. Say if I have energy in 1223 , if I accidentally press 1233 I may get something like a spectre , or god forbid , a beacon. So now i am screwed two ways. The only thing I partiallly agree with is seperating the gears into deployables and , passive context sensitive inventory so it doesn't appear in the gear wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, ZeroX4 said: NEVER EVER propose something that will limit you or any1 else If we would have wheel 1 2 3 4 5... we could make categories ourselves while we could use up the space as we please If we had categories some of us would be locked with 1 or 3 empty wheels And for crying out loud even button in the center to switch wheels or 1 2 3 4 buttons above wheel would do the trick I dont really care i just feel what have now is like here u have big bag throw your crap into it and gtfo There are so many addons or crap like that in windows mac chrome firefox or whatever else to organize our crap i dont understand why warframe cant have one Anyway i dont wanna say your idea is bad i just say it could be implement in a better way Categories is not bad idea but if i need like only 2 keys in keys category then i waste 10 other slots for it If we can arrange it at will while having different sets of wheels which we could cycle trough that would solve more problems than u presented I'm not proposing any kind of limit - if anything, more options (I rambled but I explained how people could use their gear wheel/hotkeys exactly as they do now) I'm not saying have wheels 1,2,3... I'm saying have the gear wheel as it is now, but instead of specific items, you would select a category (but could assign favorites) which brought up a wheel with the actual items in it (realistically no different than pushing RMB to bring up emotes)... If you only have 3 items in that category, it would appear just like your gear wheel does now if you only stuck three items in it The big bag has a rather shallow bottom due to the miscellaneous nature of the gear wheel (notice its where DE sticks anything the Orbiter doesn't have a console for) DE will never allow addons (and I don't think we necessarily need them - it would not solve the issue my idea attempts to resolve: more items which are easier to access) I appreciate you responding and giving me an opportunity to elaborate further! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroX4 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Venyxos said: I'm not proposing any kind of limit - if anything, more options (I rambled but I explained how people could use their gear wheel/hotkeys exactly as they do now) I'm not saying have wheels 1,2,3... I'm saying have the gear wheel as it is now, but instead of specific items, you would select a category (but could assign favorites) which brought up a wheel with the actual items in it (realistically no different than pushing RMB to bring up emotes)... If you only have 3 items in that category, it would appear just like your gear wheel does now if you only stuck three items in it The big bag has a rather shallow bottom due to the miscellaneous nature of the gear wheel (notice its where DE sticks anything the Orbiter doesn't have a console for) DE will never allow addons (and I don't think we necessarily need them - it would not solve the issue my idea attempts to resolve: more items which are easier to access) I appreciate you responding and giving me an opportunity to elaborate further! :D Look simple logic so we understand each other Category = only that kind of items in that section IF you dont get what is wrong with it go fishing on any open world and look at bootom right you have 3 categories And then start to wonder do you need 3 categories or you could use one where you could arrange everything at your own will? Put all most used crap in 1st circle and things you dont use but MAYBE you will someday will in other rings which you could switch at will Instead of switch back and forth just to switch 2 common items u use most of the time from 2 different categories I dont say categories are bad i just say they would limit our choices If we would have sets of gear wheels and we could arrange them at will nothing would be lost and we could easily adjust it to our needs and every1 would be happy And on top of that nothing would prevent me you or any1 else to make dedicated wheels to some categories Instead of forcing categories we could do them ourselves Simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said: Holy wall of text batman! While I understand the intention is better inventory management / easy access to essential tools. I do not think this is necessarily simpler than what we already have. There are 9 hotkeys , I rarely use more than 4 in a mission (of course others may be more gear heavy users). So having to remember a 4 digit code , which is easy to accidentally get wrong in a button press heavy game like warframe, would only frustrate me. Say if I have energy in 1223 , if I accidentally press 1233 I may get something like a spectre , or god forbid , a beacon. So now i am screwed two ways. The only thing I partiallly agree with is seperating the gears into deployables and , passive context sensitive inventory so it doesn't appear in the gear wheel. I do have the tendency to ramble, lol I agree, reading through it likely makes this seem more complex than the "Miscellaneous Equipment" slot the Gear Wheel essentially functions as... However, all I'm really suggesting is making categories so we don't need to assign things to the gear wheel, they would already be there and all you have to do, if you want, is assign favorites or re-order it - which is realistically how it already works BUT! You must remember to add/subtract various items; or swap them, like specters if youre into that... On PC, there are 12 hotkeys... While per mission, you may only use a few, unless you wanna revisit your gear wheel frequently - which has no built in re-order feature; just swap one item from another, which if its equipped elsewhere, will remove it from the previous spot - OR simply ignore all kinds of gear at your disposal, than you're going to need every single slot they allow (specifically the wide array of specters available which can be a true force multiplier under certain circumstances - try Specter Vauban on any mission type for example)... In other words, while you might only use 4 pieces of equipment on a mission - to have what you want for EACH mission type, you would have to revisit your gear wheel, which is truly a pain in its current state unless you just don't care about order... Bear in mind, most players might use SIGNIFICANTLY more equipment - 6 pieces per mission perhaps - if they had all their gear available ready to utilize... If you miskey, you miskey - That issue TOTALLY already exists and I regularly misclick gear which has no hotkey as I "spiral" through my slots... I've 100% popped an Arch-Wing or Specter instead of say a Deployable messing around with the spiraling (which changes the positioning of items btw as you rotate through) near the bottom of my bag - moot point, not screwed... "The only thing I partiallly agree with is seperating the gears into deployables and , passive context sensitive inventory so it doesn't appear in the gear wheel." - lol, thats literally my entire idea minus all the elaboration, so I guess I'm glad you agree?? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said: Look simple logic so we understand each other Category = only that kind of items in that section IF you dont get what is wrong with it go fishing on any open world and look at bootom right you have 3 categories And then start to wonder do you need 3 categories or you could use one where you could arrange everything at your own will? Put all most used crap in 1st circle and things you dont use but MAYBE you will someday will in other rings which you could switch at will Instead of switch back and forth just to switch 2 common items u use most of the time from 2 different categories I dont say categories are bad i just say they would limit our choices If we would have sets of gear wheels and we could arrange them at will nothing would be lost and we could easily adjust it to our needs and every1 would be happy And on top of that nothing would prevent me you or any1 else to make dedicated wheels to some categories Instead of forcing categories we could do them ourselves Simple as that You must have completely overlooked what I was saying about being able to sort and/or assign favorites (which in all fairness, I don't blame you for skimming the OP, lmao), so that you could do exactly what you're proposing, while I could do what I'm proposing, whereas someone could do it the old way - all w/ the exact same system which would look so much like it already does, most people would probably forget how it "used to be" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroX4 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Venyxos said: You must have completely overlooked what I was saying about being able to sort and/or assign favorites (which in all fairness, I don't blame you for skimming the OP, lmao), so that you could do exactly what you're proposing, while I could do what I'm proposing, whereas someone could do it the old way - all w/ the exact same system which would look so much like it already does, most people would probably forget how it "used to be" lol Maybe so But let me tell you this If your category system works like for examples keys go to keys pizzas go to pizzas deployment stuff go to deployment stuff ALL BY DEFAULT BUT you have option to add items to WRONG category i would be all in for it Or lets say button to sort crap out by its category and then arrange it at will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said: Maybe so But let me tell you this If your category system works like for examples keys go to keys pizzas go to pizzas deployment stuff go to deployment stuff ALL BY DEFAULT BUT you have option to add items to WRONG category i would be all in for it Or lets say button to sort crap out by its category and then arrange it at will I believe we are now on the same page, as much as one can be on internetz forumz - Happy Hunting, Tenno :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 22 hours ago, Venyxos said: Vauban is just the Exalted mine guy now "Now"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: "Now"? LMAO - fair enough! I more meant that other Warframes could have very similar traps/grenades/throwables (like a magazine of "castanas") instead of him being the -only- one w/ traps... Like, in my mind, he's the "exclusive" traps guy whereas titania is the exalted arch-wing lady, excaliber the exactled sword guy - all warframes can archwing/use swords in certain/most circumstances, but only exalted frames can do their thing literally as often as energy permits, bahahaha "Now"? - Crack me up, lololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Venyxos said: I do have the tendency to ramble, lol I agree, reading through it likely makes this seem more complex than the "Miscellaneous Equipment" slot the Gear Wheel essentially functions as... However, all I'm really suggesting is making categories so we don't need to assign things to the gear wheel, they would already be there and all you have to do, if you want, is assign favorites or re-order it - which is realistically how it already works BUT! You must remember to add/subtract various items; or swap them, like specters if youre into that... On PC, there are 12 hotkeys... While per mission, you may only use a few, unless you wanna revisit your gear wheel frequently - which has no built in re-order feature; just swap one item from another, which if its equipped elsewhere, will remove it from the previous spot - OR simply ignore all kinds of gear at your disposal, than you're going to need every single slot they allow (specifically the wide array of specters available which can be a true force multiplier under certain circumstances - try Specter Vauban on any mission type for example)... In other words, while you might only use 4 pieces of equipment on a mission - to have what you want for EACH mission type, you would have to revisit your gear wheel, which is truly a pain in its current state unless you just don't care about order... Bear in mind, most players might use SIGNIFICANTLY more equipment - 6 pieces per mission perhaps - if they had all their gear available ready to utilize... If you miskey, you miskey - That issue TOTALLY already exists and I regularly misclick gear which has no hotkey as I "spiral" through my slots... I've 100% popped an Arch-Wing or Specter instead of say a Deployable messing around with the spiraling (which changes the positioning of items btw as you rotate through) near the bottom of my bag - moot point, not screwed... "The only thing I partiallly agree with is seperating the gears into deployables and , passive context sensitive inventory so it doesn't appear in the gear wheel." - lol, thats literally my entire idea minus all the elaboration, so I guess I'm glad you agree?? lol I can only speak for myself but i should probably clarify what i mean in detail, i do not use consumables (health , energy , ammo, spectres) frequently which i have mapped to 2 , 4 , 6 , 8 in case of "oh S#&$" moments, i mostly use the scanner, tranq rifle , fishing rod, mining tool which i have mapped to numpad 1 , 3, 7 , 9. i have 5 set to my heavy archgun, I have rarely mistyped any of these (cause of how they are mapped as well as the travel between them) and the result is instantaneous so i can instantly correct myself as well. If i have to dial a sequence , i can make many more mistakes and it takes more time, as is apparent to me by looking at my chat in the course of a mission eg: "stpo its alreadt dead" , "wait teh acloyte is spwaning" cause i want to get back to playing and stop typing. I do not want my "oh S#&$" gear to take me more than one key press to activate and increase the chances of me making "tactical typos" ,as per your suggestion all gear items will have an "address" attached to them which makes it very easy to try and pick an item i do not want and is also rare (i never map rare items to hotkeys). you want to create separate categories for items (like skyrim inventory , magic , weapon and ability selection) which i am ok with , i am not ok with your dial a tool approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venyxos Posted August 1, 2021 Author Share Posted August 1, 2021 14 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said: I can only speak for myself but i should probably clarify what i mean in detail, i do not use consumables (health , energy , ammo, spectres) frequently which i have mapped to 2 , 4 , 6 , 8 in case of "oh S#&$" moments, i mostly use the scanner, tranq rifle , fishing rod, mining tool which i have mapped to numpad 1 , 3, 7 , 9. i have 5 set to my heavy archgun, I have rarely mistyped any of these (cause of how they are mapped as well as the travel between them) and the result is instantaneous so i can instantly correct myself as well. If i have to dial a sequence , i can make many more mistakes and it takes more time, as is apparent to me by looking at my chat in the course of a mission eg: "stpo its alreadt dead" , "wait teh acloyte is spwaning" cause i want to get back to playing and stop typing. I do not want my "oh S#&$" gear to take me more than one key press to activate and increase the chances of me making "tactical typos" ,as per your suggestion all gear items will have an "address" attached to them which makes it very easy to try and pick an item i do not want and is also rare (i never map rare items to hotkeys). you want to create separate categories for items (like skyrim inventory , magic , weapon and ability selection) which i am ok with , i am not ok with your dial a tool approach. So you could still do exactly what you do now with the proposed system, but to grab buried items you would also have the ability to punch a sequence in addition to navigating the gear wheel... Face it, the spiral nature, and limited capacity given the miscellaneous nature of "gear" in general, while neat is clumsy... They don't have to throw it out, but they've added so much stuff to the gear wheel they REALLY need to re-evaluate how its all managed. It's not broken per se, but its clearly an after thought, and everything that gets dumped there seems to become one too... Railjack comes out - no new Arch-wing (not a complaint, just pointing out Gear is where content goes to die except for some niche utility. Even Arch-wings are some tack-on feature outside of a vehicle for free-roam and exiting your railjack) - we don't even notice obvious how big the holes in the content are anymore. Anyway, to get back on track, in my proposal you could still hotkey: "(health , energy , ammo, spectres) frequently which i have mapped to 2 , 4 , 6 , 8... ...use the scanner, tranq rifle , fishing rod, mining tool which i have mapped to numpad 1 , 3, 7 , 9... ...5 set to my heavy archgun" ...Through a favorites/assignment/reorder/customization feature they would HAVE to include for this to work (and I mean, they already have it - its just one category you dump everything into) It's just all your "Categories" would get pushed down in your list low enough that the hotkey bindings don't apply to them (you may have hotkeys for your first 12 gear and first 12 emotes on their respective wheels as it stands now, and I don't think that should change because Keyboards aren't going to - top row has 12 keys, leave it at 12 - I use my numpad, including * - + too)... But! Say you're like, "Oh man, I wish I could pop out Specter X because it would be hilarious" or whatever your reason is, you could pull up your gear wheel, spiral back to your Specter Box and pick the one you want from it... You spiral to Specter Box, click it, the first 12 are your new hotkeys or you could manually select them by spiraling to the one you want --- Currently, you would have had to manually equipped the Specter you wanted before you started in the first place. Maybe to a hotkey assignment... Maybe not. And all that is ignoring you could/should be able to do your own categories with such a proposal In other words, if its a specter you KNOW you want to have ready to just throw down like bam with a hotkey, you would assign it to your first wheel to the hotkey where a category would be by default... Like, as I explained above, just because your specter is now in a category which can be selected as a whole, it's important that players be able to hotkey specific items - ZERO dialing... Like we've both said now, who wants to pop a beacon or flare when they wanted a health pop or heavy weapon? I just can't stand how cumbersome the gear wheel is now; how much they offer as gear which you ultimately have to leave behind for necessities (like vehicles, basic keys, etc) - in particular flavor items. Flares, fireworks, etc - Who actually wants to give up space on their wheel just to get half way thru a mission and realize they unequipped an antitoxin or apothic for a red flare... And swapping stuff in and out rapidly becomes a chore... You CAN at least drag and drop stuff around which someone else in this thread mentioned previously but still - I feel like if they gave it a little attention, it could -reeeally- flesh out some side features automatically. 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Venyxos Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share Posted August 3, 2021 On 2021-07-30 at 7:45 PM, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said: Pretty sure you can do this - but not inside of a mission. Otherwise, great suggestions! This is 100% accurate, thank you :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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