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Should Warframe have a pity system?


Zahnny
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Define "Pity System"

Certain games, the most notable that I can think of being Genshin Impact has a Pity System which helps players if they have bad luck.

In their version, every 10 rolls garuntees one 4 star character. Every 90 rolls garuntees one 5 star character, unless you obtain them before hitting the pity threshold. Either way, it will then reset your Pity upon either criteria being met.

Essentially for certain things like Arbitrations, if you're having extremely bad luck, if your luck is so bad, it'll accumulate and give you it past a certain point.

Edited by Zahnny
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EDIT: nvm, misunderstood the context of 'pity' and posted before the message above showed up. Getting better drops after a long serious of garbage loot sounds good. Not sure DE would go for that, though.

Edited by Berserkerkitten
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Players have requested various forms of "let me pick my hard-to-get reward". Your Pity System suggestion wouldn't be so bad, but DE would need to start rating the rarity of drops. They already have enough trouble just organizing items by level of importance...

 

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So, "Bad Luck Protection" or "Duplicate Protection" as it's more commonly known in terminology.

We've asked for this. In-fact, we had a system for this for a little while in the Kuva Lich system before you could see and consciously choose what weapon you get. However, it seems many people, including the dev team, believe that means people will get what they want sooner and consequentially stop playing sooner.

Personally, I'd rather get and play with the thing I wanted to get in mission types I want to play than play a mission type I don't like to constantly see that I didn't get the thing I wanted. It's why I don't play the Lich system much anymore. I can choose my weapon, yeah ok. Playing the mission 93 times to see the same two weapons that I specifically don't want in a vain attempt to get the one I do was a good way to make me close the game and play something else for two months.

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36 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Certain games, the most notable that I can think of being Genshin Impact has a Pity System which helps players if they have bad luck.

In their version, every 10 rolls garuntees one 4 star character. Every 90 rolls garuntees one 5 star character, unless you obtain them before hitting the pity threshold.

Essentially for certain things like Arbitrations, if you're having extremely bad luck, if your luck is so bad, it'll accumulate and give you it past a certain point.

Incidentally, game modes with dedicated currencies and a vendor (SP and Arbys) already have the infrastructure for a similar system. Which would be being able to buy the item that won't drop. That said, the exchange rate for those items would likely be padded a bit more then the (surprisingly reasonable) prices for the stuff currently in those vendors. 

  

25 minutes ago, (PSN)theelix said:

We've asked for this. In-fact, we had a system for this for a little while in the Kuva Lich system before you could see and consciously choose what weapon you get.

Just gonna say, duplicate protection on Liches took one single weapon off the roster per roll, at best the effect was marginal and you could just as easily flip flop between two weapons forever, it really was not the cure-all that people think it is. There's also an equally important system (Valence Fusion) that encourages you to get duplicates. (that ended up being more then "Just gonna say")

Edited by rapt0rman
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The problem is: how would you determine what a user wants: a duplicate like with lich weapons? or do they want to finish their collection? You cant decide it on a global level. The best suggestion I saw what that every mission would spawn more lichlings - each rolling a different weapon so the choice if wider. But thats only the lich stuff.

How about rivens? How could you tell what a specific player wants? Sure, there are meta followers that just want the biggest numbers, but some of us want some utility on that too. A god roll for one is not so god to another. Giving increasing chances for a specific stat combination on rivens wouldnt work. I myself have posted a riven rework idea that would in short allow you to break rivens into parts and put back a riven with specific stats you wanted provided that you had rolled them on other rivens and broken them into those parts.

What Im getting at, Warframe is too multidimentional for a simple pity system to work and a be a positive change for players, in many cases it could be a major drawback.

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

Different games make money in different ways.

People don’t realize that players set the market in large part.

Of course players set the market and of course people realise that. It’s high school level economics. We, the players are the consumer. We are the active force in value determination. I mean what else could it even be?

 

....Clem?

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51 minutes ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Of course players set the market and of course people realise that. It’s high school level economics. We, the players are the consumer. We are the active force in value determination. I mean what else could it even be?

 

....Clem?

But do they all realize it in the context of the OP?

A pity system is about addressing and balancing PAYING customer retention against revenues that result from avoiding a negative consequence…

More players that lack sufficient motivation to pay to support the business model is failure.

Too small a pool of PAYING players due to harsher RNG is failure.

Now DE has done a decent job of offsetting this with digital art (cosmetics) we are willing to pay for and a diverse, multitude of hierarchical structures that grant timesink and gameplay advantages when you pay with real money…

…without detrimental impact (to a certain extent, arguably) to core gameplay that made WF great…

But those two competing forces never go away.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I searched and it's basically gacha system where you get the SSSS+ Ex character/item after a certain amount of pulls so that the gacha doesn't look too scummy.

Don't see where exactly this could be applied in Warframe

It has been around since before that though. Many MMOs for instance use token systems in addition to drops, so even if your luck is terrible, you'll eventually get the items you are seeking. In WF that could be implemented easily on liches and sisters for instance by giving a token for each "larvling" downed, so at x amount of tokens you could pick up a weapon prog from a vendor with an element of your choice with a hidden % value. Which would also mean if you luck out midway through the farm for the right weapon you'll still eventually end up with the option to skip a grind session for one.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Don't see where exactly this could be applied in Warframe

One idea someone posted long ago (I think Wisp had just been released) was the ability to craft five frame components into any other component. Basically if you had a ridiculous string of luck where you got eleven neuroptics blueprints in a row, you could craft five into a chassis blueprint and five into a systems blueprint

I presume the idea didn't apply to Primes, since they use the relic system. There's also no telling how it would work with basically any other random drop (craft fifty Dreads into Broken-War?)

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I searched and it's basically gacha system where you get the SSSS+ Ex character/item after a certain amount of pulls so that the gacha doesn't look too scummy.

Don't see where exactly this could be applied in Warframe

Kuva weapons, Arcanes drops (both Eidolon and Orphix), Khora parts, Corrupted Holokeys.... 

 

A lot of worse-than-usual farms (which completely depends on luck but has long time commitment to finish) could certainly use such implantations.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

What is so rare that you would need it? 

Legendary cores from sorties

Arcane grace and energizer from eidolons and OV

Rare prime part from relics 

Certain stats role for rivens

 

Basically anything that involves RNG and has very low chance .

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The pity system is based off spending premium or semi premium currency's on lottery and lootbox's, WF does not have a system like this so it really doesn't apply. The grind in WF may feel crappy at times but its 1000x better than lootbox/lottery 

Edited by minininja77
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I would rather have a better token system similar to what we had for orphix.

You have a chance to get lucky , or you could get tokens after each mission which you can eventually exchange for what you want (amongst other things).

Would be an interesting immersion exercise too I think if it is done right.

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46 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

Legendary cores from sorties

Arcane grace and energizer from eidolons and OV

Rare prime part from relics 

Certain stats role for rivens

 

Basically anything that involves RNG and has very low chance .

Of course you picked the most sought after and rare items in the game. No surprise there.

Were the 2 events handing out arcane energizes like candy not enough for you? Need faster plat?

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