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Should Warframe have a pity system?


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34 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

impatience

It toked me roughly 3 years to do ~100 hydrolist captures of which only 2 arcane graces dropped and single energizer 

37 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

greed

Not sure were is this greed is coming from , you sure you understood what I was saying ? wanting to own something isn't greed .

 

38 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

FOMO

There is nothing to miss out on , eidolons and their arcanes aren't going anywhere , wanting to own said arcanes and realizing the grind for them isn't FOMO

 

39 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Just because it exists in the game does not mean you automatically get to acquire it in the time you deem as correct, or ever, really.

Then tell me how much time the player has to spend to acquire something like arcanes ? 

Arcanes were introduced first in raids which were released over 6 years ago , in that time span before SS and OV a had not managed to max out single arcane I wanted and I got was scraps and few pieces of ones I did not want .

If 5 year time span is to soon or as you put it "time I deem as correct" then tell me what is the appropriate time investment for a player to obtain such items .

46 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Your own brain chemistry is the issue, not eh drop rates.

You sure about that ?

Arcanes as drops from eidolons which are time gated , gear gated , player skill gated ( more skilled player more runs per night ) , low chance RNG gated and require multiple copy's of the same item to rank up isn't a concerning grind ?

OV is even worse , while its not timed gated it is cluttered along side with every other arcane in rotation C .

How about another rare item like legendary core from sorties , its drop chance is 0.18% from activity that you can do once a day and on top its a single use item . I ever got it once from sortie .

How about perfect riven roll which only cost you around of 5608 rolls , about 20 million kuva , if that isn't brutal to you I don't know what is .

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Is it possible to update the original post to define what is being talked about. I had to scroll down to see OP explain it only after being asked by the second post. It would just be helpful is all.

I would really like it if you can scrap your drops to get a material that can be traded for the drop you wanted. Each planet or proxima could have it's own material for that. It would make the rng less painful. The rng in the game is too much. That much reliance on low drop rates makes the game miserable.

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4 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

If made too easy all the time, there'd be no pressure provided to incentivize plat purchases.  
 

 

Fair.  The grinds that I'd like to see eased a bit are actually ones that can't be bypassed with plat, though.  I'd love a pity/Orphix style store for choosing the next weapon my larvling or candidate will spawn with.  And I wish we had some sort of pity system for holokeys too.

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14 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Basing everything on pure RNG is bad game design.  For example riven rolls can be 100% pure RNG. It is like gambling. Same goes for other optional stuff as well.

But essential drops, like prime parts should have a pity system. 

Bad RNG like the riven system should have a pity system. Rolling 100 times not getting a desired roll is insulting.

Lich system should have this too. Like really who wants a 25% elemental Kuva Liches? Absolutely no one.

Prime parts already have it in the form of player trading.

 

 

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Too many ppl are jumping to conclusion that pity system = errything ezpz, achieable in a day thing.

 

In most cases, it is not how it works and it is not what ppl ask for.

 

It is to protect ppl from extremely S#&$ty luck cases like having to do an extra week of almost non stop farming compared to usual, making them more willing to play the game instead of burning out.

 

For example relic system def doesn't need it. Chance to get 'lowest' thing to get is very high, you most likely just want it once, you can easily re-try. There are so many ways to gather relics and open them as of now.

 

Kuva weapons? Sthing like pity system to guarntee certain weapon after couple dozen fails would be nice. Current Larva farm is unfun but ruthlessly time-consuming and trading experience is also qutie shoddy with ppl who don't answer for hours, ppl who haven't still got their Liches yet, ppl who don't have Lich trading station, ppl refusing to name out prices etc (all from my personal experience)

 

Arcanes def could use it. Eidolons and Orphix are game modes that are very poorly explained in-game, have tons of bugs and is quite hard to play solo unless you have a lot of experience. Having 'fails' over and over is un-fun and so is farming hundreds of plats for one arcane.

There doesn't really need be a complex thing as we already have an useless item connected to these farms in name of Eidolon Shard. (Normal one.) Quill from Cetus could have a vendor like Little Duck with Anomaly Shards, trading certain amounts of Eidolon Shards for Arcanes.

If indeed 'having access to all' is so much of issue or whatever, one could easily restrict certain ones behind Quill standing so it would mean to access it players need to do some Eidolon hunts themselves. 

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6 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

It toked me roughly 3 years to do ~100 hydrolist captures of which only 2 arcane graces dropped and single energizer 

Not sure were is this greed is coming from , you sure you understood what I was saying ? wanting to own something isn't greed .

 

There is nothing to miss out on , eidolons and their arcanes aren't going anywhere , wanting to own said arcanes and realizing the grind for them isn't FOMO

 

Then tell me how much time the player has to spend to acquire something like arcanes ? 

Arcanes were introduced first in raids which were released over 6 years ago , in that time span before SS and OV a had not managed to max out single arcane I wanted and I got was scraps and few pieces of ones I did not want .

If 5 year time span is to soon or as you put it "time I deem as correct" then tell me what is the appropriate time investment for a player to obtain such items .

You sure about that ?

Arcanes as drops from eidolons which are time gated , gear gated , player skill gated ( more skilled player more runs per night ) , low chance RNG gated and require multiple copy's of the same item to rank up isn't a concerning grind ?

OV is even worse , while its not timed gated it is cluttered along side with every other arcane in rotation C .

How about another rare item like legendary core from sorties , its drop chance is 0.18% from activity that you can do once a day and on top its a single use item . I ever got it once from sortie .

How about perfect riven roll which only cost you around of 5608 rolls , about 20 million kuva , if that isn't brutal to you I don't know what is .

"Player skill gated"?  LOL what?  My friend, that's not a thing.  Having rewards require players improving their "skills"/gameplay to obtain is not a flaw... that's literally how all video games work.

"Top score on PONG was locked behind Player Skill Gating!  UNFAIR!"   I mean...

As for the rest of this fallacy-filled rant, the game is FREE.  The company does not guarantee ANY income off of new or existing players... they give up ALL their goods at NO cost in the HOPES that players will then invest later on.  They purposely implement systems like "Foundry Times" and "Standing Limits" to help incentivize purchases because OTHERWISE THEY'D HAVE TO CHARGE FOR THE GAME/DLC.   

DE is a BUSINESS.  It employs 300+ employees.... they depend on the income from a FREE game to keep the lights on, to pay legal fees, rent for office space and equipment, etc.. that isn't cheap.  They can't just release a fancy Excal helmet and HOPE that's "enough".   

You may not like wait times... or RNG... but they're essential.  Otherwise, we all download WF, we play it, we grind it, we beat it quickly, and we leave... and DE gets nothing from us as compensation.   That sound like a better business model to you?  (rhetorical question)

4 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

Is it possible to update the original post to define what is being talked about. I had to scroll down to see OP explain it only after being asked by the second post. It would just be helpful is all.

I would really like it if you can scrap your drops to get a material that can be traded for the drop you wanted. Each planet or proxima could have it's own material for that. It would make the rng less painful. The rng in the game is too much. That much reliance on low drop rates makes the game miserable.

Platinum.  The "material" you're describing is "Platinum".  You can trade prime items you DON'T want, and even non-prime items like Ayatan, Pet Imprints, Mods, etc, for "the drop that you wanted".

4 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Fair.  The grinds that I'd like to see eased a bit are actually ones that can't be bypassed with plat, though.  I'd love a pity/Orphix style store for choosing the next weapon my larvling or candidate will spawn with.  And I wish we had some sort of pity system for holokeys too.

Trades exist.  They aren't perfect because they're run by humans, which aren't perfect either... but they exist.  Why do we need "pity", which is an RNG forgiveness system, when we can skip RNG and just trade for EXACTLY what we want?

1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

Bad RNG like the riven system should have a pity system. Rolling 100 times not getting a desired roll is insulting.

Lich system should have this too. Like really who wants a 25% elemental Kuva Liches? Absolutely no one.

Prime parts already have it in the form of player trading.

 

 

Rivens can be bought/traded, though.  You don't HAVE to roll for what you want... you can just ask for it.   Is Trade a pain in the arse? Of course.  But that doesn't change the fact that it is a valid solution to the "issue".  

Also, same applies for Liches. 

Furthermore, a "good roll" is rather subjective.  I don't have "god roll" rivens, and yet I've handled every piece of content the game has thrown my way without issue.  Heck, I don't USE rivens on most of my gear.  Rivens are a fun bonus, but are by no means "mandatory" for getting stuff done....  

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17 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

Relics def don't need pity system.

 

However Tenet Melee and Holokeys def could use it or allow trading.

 

Just anything at this point really.

Why?  You can literally buy EXACTLY what is in the Tenet shop with holokeys.  There's no RNG in that purchase.  You know EXACTLY the cost upfront, and exactly the product upfront.

Pity Systems are not for purchases, they're for gatcha rolls... which this isn't.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Why?  You can literally buy EXACTLY what is in the Tenet shop with holokeys.  There's no RNG in that purchase.  You know EXACTLY the cost upfront, and exactly the product upfront.

Pity Systems are not for purchases, they're for gatcha rolls... which this isn't.

You do know Holokeys aren't guaranteed drops right? That's the layer of RNG.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Platinum.  The "material" you're describing is "Platinum".  You can trade prime items you DON'T want, and even non-prime items like Ayatan, Pet Imprints, Mods, etc, for "the drop that you wanted".

Nah. Bye.

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6 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Fair.  The grinds that I'd like to see eased a bit are actually ones that can't be bypassed with plat, though.  I'd love a pity/Orphix style store for choosing the next weapon my larvling or candidate will spawn with.  And I wish we had some sort of pity system for holokeys too.

So... 
1. We have the guarantee that the larvling won't spawn same weapon twice in a row.  We ALSO have TRADING.  I'm not saying trading is the best thing ever, but it's FREELY available and GUARANTEES you EXACTLY what you want.   Why would you want a "pity" system instead?  That doesn't apply to guaranteed items, only guaranteed rarities.  All Kuva Weapons are the same rarity, so that wouldn't work, anyway.

2. If people could "guarantee" what weapon they'd get, they'd just rush that in a weekend and spend the next month or 3 complaining about "Content Drought" again.  Wish it weren't the case, but... it's been shown to be such time and again.

3. Holokeys are fine.  Things aren't meant to be done in a single day/week, respectfully.  Maybe they could add Holokeys to one other mode (or Survival rotations in RJ or something), but for now, it's a brand new system and it functions well enough that most players in my clan and on my stream have all the Tenet melee, mostly at full or near-full %.  I'm not saying everyone shares that "luck".  I have one viewer in particular that despises the grind for them, which is valid as their personal experience... but it is not objectively so.

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3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You do know Holokeys aren't guaranteed drops right? That's the layer of RNG.

That is the ONLY rng, and those missions are easy enough to repeat/grind.  It's also not RNG you PAID for, and thus the "pity systems" don't apply, as those are to guarantee "something" after having paid or used premium currency otherwise gained in x amounts of attempts at dice rolls/summons.  

Play the mission often enough, you'll get plenty of them. 

Could the weapons be tradeable?  Maybe... would be more complicated than that, though.  For now, don't sweat it.  DE has typically greatly reduced the grind on any number of systems/items over time after feedback (which, to be clear, this post in GENERAL DISCUSSION is not).  It's another reason I never rush to the finish line when content first drops.

But right now, the system is working well enough that people ARE able to farm the keys...   So it's not "broken".   I personally think adding them to rotations of RJ Survival Fissures might be fair, tbh, but I'll leave that to the professionals.

Just now, Redfeather75 said:

Nah. Bye.

Great response.  Solid conversation.  You sure helped change my perspective, and the perspective of any devs reading this, with such an insightful reply.  /s

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1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

3. Holokeys are fine.  Things aren't meant to be done in a single day/week, respectfully.  Maybe they could add Holokeys to one other mode (or Survival rotations in RJ or something), but for now, it's a brand new system and it functions well enough that most players in my clan and on my stream have all the Tenet melee, mostly at full or near-full %.  I'm not saying everyone shares that "luck".  I have one viewer in particular that despises the grind for them, which is valid as their personal experience... but it is not objectively so.

No they are NOT fine. I and maybe a lot of people will be content if the amount were reduced by 50%, but make the drops guaranteed. DE already time gated the shop by adding a weekly rotation and 2 layers of RNG, which is the element type and element. No need to add another layer of RNG to even spend on the shop on top of it.

You can hoard all the holokeys you want, but you still cannot reach 60% elementals on all Melee after at least around 1-10 weeks. Can take even longer if you are looking for a specific element.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:



As for the rest of this fallacy-filled rant, the game is FREE.  The company does not guarantee ANY income off of new or existing players... they give up ALL their goods at NO cost in the HOPES that players will then invest later on.  They purposely implement systems like "Foundry Times" and "Standing Limits" to help incentivize purchases because OTHERWISE THEY'D HAVE TO CHARGE FOR THE GAME/DLC.   

DE is a BUSINESS.  It employs 300+ employees.... they depend on the income from a FREE game to keep the lights on, to pay legal fees, rent for office space and equipment, etc.. that isn't cheap.  They can't just release a fancy Excal helmet and HOPE that's "enough".   

You may not like wait times... or RNG... but they're essential.  Otherwise, we all download WF, we play it, we grind it, we beat it quickly, and we leave... and DE gets nothing from us as compensation.   That sound like a better business model to you?  (rhetorical question)

 

Foundry wait times are fair by my book, stading system is fair to as it is steady grind that doesnt relly on RNG or low drop chance. 

 

Playing activity for 5 years and not getting specific thing, now thats a problem and redicuoles. 

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6 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

So... 
1. We have the guarantee that the larvling won't spawn same weapon twice in a row.  We ALSO have TRADING.  I'm not saying trading is the best thing ever, but it's FREELY available and GUARANTEES you EXACTLY what you want.   Why would you want a "pity" system instead?  That doesn't apply to guaranteed items, only guaranteed rarities.  All Kuva Weapons are the same rarity, so that wouldn't work, anyway.

2. If people could "guarantee" what weapon they'd get, they'd just rush that in a weekend and spend the next month or 3 complaining about "Content Drought" again.  Wish it weren't the case, but... it's been shown to be such time and again.

3. Holokeys are fine.  Things aren't meant to be done in a single day/week, respectfully.  Maybe they could add Holokeys to one other mode (or Survival rotations in RJ or something), but for now, it's a brand new system and it functions well enough that most players in my clan and on my stream have all the Tenet melee, mostly at full or near-full %.  I'm not saying everyone shares that "luck".  I have one viewer in particular that despises the grind for them, which is valid as their personal experience... but it is not objectively so.

 

Again, you fall right into narrow view of 'pity system means making it rush-able within short time', which it is NOT what it is asked for. It is to prevent failing dozens upon dozens of times and not getting anything. The guarantee drop does not need be short/easy. Just a safety measure. 

 

Pity system is not to replace trading. I am not sure why you get that idea from.

There can be lots of limitations to stop it from abusable. For example, they could allow determined Kuva Lich with specific weapon, but only allow it once per week. Time-gated item gains are common enough in this game. Or put it behind a certain quest/standing.

 

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7 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

So... 
1. We have the guarantee that the larvling won't spawn same weapon twice in a row.  We ALSO have TRADING.  I'm not saying trading is the best thing ever, but it's FREELY available and GUARANTEES you EXACTLY what you want.   Why would you want a "pity" system instead?  That doesn't apply to guaranteed items, only guaranteed rarities.  All Kuva Weapons are the same rarity, so that wouldn't work, anyway.

2. If people could "guarantee" what weapon they'd get, they'd just rush that in a weekend and spend the next month or 3 complaining about "Content Drought" again.  Wish it weren't the case, but... it's been shown to be such time and again.

3. Holokeys are fine.  Things aren't meant to be done in a single day/week, respectfully.  Maybe they could add Holokeys to one other mode (or Survival rotations in RJ or something), but for now, it's a brand new system and it functions well enough that most players in my clan and on my stream have all the Tenet melee, mostly at full or near-full %.  I'm not saying everyone shares that "luck".  I have one viewer in particular that despises the grind for them, which is valid as their personal experience... but it is not objectively so.

1) Trading does help, you're right.  I still don't think it's good enough to justify the absurdity of Cassini spam's current state.  If they ever add more lich weapons, it's only going to get worse.  I like hunting liches, but the joy wears off fast when you're stapled to that REPEAT MISSION button, looking for the right lich.  If a pity system or store is inappropriate, there are dozens of threads around the forums suggesting suitable alternatives, like putting specific weapons behind specific game modes or planets.

2) I get what you're saying about "content drought" complaints, but there comes a point when the grind is so bad that it deters players from engaging with the content at all, which leads to even more disengagement than players rushing through an entire update in a day/week.  Also, with crossplay coming, we as a community are going to need to get over the whole "content drought" thing.  It's either that, or this bloated, buggy game becomes even more unplayable with every update.

3) Holokeys are not fine.  Not when there's already RNG and time gating related to getting your ideal tenet melee weapon.  It's such a not fine system that I just grabbed the ones that were on offer and will not be attempting to max them out.  I have engaged with the system enough to get the MR I want out of it, but I'm not engaging with it further due to the absurdity of the grind.  See point 2.  I'm hoping they don't release more before making some changes to holokey acquisition.

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12 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

 

 

Again, you fall right into narrow view of 'pity system means making it rush-able within short time', which it is NOT what it is asked for. It is to prevent failing dozens upon dozens of times and not getting anything. The guarantee drop does not need be short/easy. Just a safety measure. 

 

Pity system is not to replace trading. I am not sure why you get that idea from.

There can be lots of limitations to stop it from abusable. For example, they could allow determined Kuva Lich with specific weapon, but only allow it once per week. Time-gated item gains are common enough in this game. Or put it behind a certain quest/standing.

 

I'm not misunderstanding the meaning of a "pity system".  I'm quite familiar with them.  

YOU are misunderstanding what people are telling you in response. 

Pity Systems are for WHEN THERE IS NO OTHER MEANS BY PREMIUM CURRENCY TO ACQUIRE HIGH RARITY ITEMS AT RANDOM.  It helps guarantee that at least ONE of the random rolls in x rolls will be SOMETHING of value.

In Warframe, ALL prime drops, lich weapons/ephemera, etc, can be TRADED FREELY with other players, even WITHOUT plat if you just trade items for items.  There is NO NEED to have more "random rolls" to get a rare item because it can be gotten at ANY time without premium currency.  You can farm other items, too, that are easier to obtain, and trade those for plat, with which you can GUARANTEE said item.

If you get a lich for the 10th time in a row that you DON'T WANT... check who DOES want them (because someone else is having the same bad RNG with THAT weapon/ephemera), and offer a TRADE.   It's not EASY or FAST, per se, but it IS GUARANTEED.

You clearly do not understand what it takes to completely change the code of an implemented system just to add such traits, or you wouldn't even propose it.  

Coding isn't just "switch on, switch off".  An 8 year old game is VERY complex, and there's tons of strings all pulling on others.  It's not only not worth the risk, but what you're proposing is wholly unnecessary.

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10 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

1) Trading does help, you're right.  I still don't think it's good enough to justify the absurdity of Cassini spam's current state.  If they ever add more lich weapons, it's only going to get worse.  I like hunting liches, but the joy wears off fast when you're stapled to that REPEAT MISSION button, looking for the right lich.  If a pity system or store is inappropriate, there are dozens of threads around the forums suggesting suitable alternatives, like putting specific weapons behind specific game modes or planets.

2) I get what you're saying about "content drought" complaints, but there comes a point when the grind is so bad that it deters players from engaging with the content at all, which leads to even more disengagement than players rushing through an entire update in a day/week.  Also, with crossplay coming, we as a community are going to need to get over the whole "content drought" thing.  It's either that, or this bloated, buggy game becomes even more unplayable with every update.

3) Holokeys are not fine.  Not when there's already RNG and time gating related to getting your ideal tenet melee weapon.  It's such a not fine system that I just grabbed the ones that were on offer and will not be attempting to max them out.  I have engaged with the system enough to get the MR I want out of it, but I'm not engaging with it further due to the absurdity of the grind.  See point 2.  I'm hoping they don't release more before making some changes to holokey acquisition.

1. Suitable alternatives HAVE been posted elsewhere, and may even be considered by devs.  But the point in THIS thread is regarding "pity systems", so those don't apply here.  This also isn't in Feedback, so really... it's all a bit moot to begin with.

2. I do agree that the community needs to get over their "content drought" drama, but until they do DE is stuck between that mess and the plethora of fixes pending.  Doing both is going to slow them down.  Doing one or the other is going to get backlash, too.  It's a no-win for them.  I'm not trying to "white knight", but I truly believe much of this community lacks proper perspective on what it is to be a game developer, and how the "customer" is NOT "always right". 

3. Holokeys, I have no doubt, will be tweaked.  As they stand now, the issue isn't so much "WILL I get enough", but rather "Will I get enough IN X AMOUNT OF TIME?"  The rotation of the shop DOES pose an issue with that, but barring that, the system is fine for LONG-term gameplay.  I find the issue IME tends to stem moreso from players setting arbitrary limits on their grind that don't otherwise exist (i. e.:  I NEEED to farm ALL the weapons THIS WEEK).   But yes, the shop rotation, whilst in and of itself not a bad thing, and the holokeys in and of themself being fine, DO run into some issues when combined.  I just don't see it as some apocalyptic issue that some on these forums seem to insist it is. 

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Many games have streak breakers/bad luck protection. Most players don't need it, but it prevents outliers from having a miserable experience, so it's not a terrible idea.

I know I would've liked bad luck protection last week when I did fifteen frigging void storms in a row and got no holokeys. 

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5 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Many games have streak breakers/bad luck protection. Most players don't need it, but it prevents outliers from having a miserable experience, so it's not a terrible idea.

I know I would've liked bad luck protection last week when I did fifteen frigging void storms in a row and got no holokeys. 

Honestly 'bad luck protection' is what OP should have led with. 'Pity System' just sounds bad in general.

 

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22 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:


1. We have the guarantee that the larvling won't spawn same weapon twice in a row.

This was introduced 14 days after liches came out, almost two years ago. With 6 new weapons since then it only serves to annoy people.

There are people that abort cassini runs for hours trying to get certain weapons, how is that good for anyone?

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

If you get a lich for the 10th time in a row that you DON'T WANT... check who DOES want them (because someone else is having the same bad RNG with THAT weapon/ephemera), and offer a TRADE.   It's not EASY or FAST, per se, but it IS GUARANTEED.

Sad news for you if think anyone is trading a low roll kraken for anything let alone new kuva weapons. Something about supply and demand I guess.

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

3. Holokeys, I have no doubt, will be tweaked.  As they stand now, the issue isn't so much "WILL I get enough", but rather "Will I get enough IN X AMOUNT OF TIME?"  The rotation of the shop DOES pose an issue with that, but barring that, the system is fine for LONG-term gameplay.  I find the issue IME tends to stem moreso from players setting arbitrary limits on their grind that don't otherwise exist (i. e.:  I NEEED to farm ALL the weapons THIS WEEK).   But yes, the shop rotation, whilst in and of itself not a bad thing, and the holokeys in and of themself being fine, DO run into some issues when combined.  I just don't see it as some apocalyptic issue that some on these forums seem to insist it is. 

At this point I'd say holokeys are a failure in the context of DE saying they were looking at making void storms more rewarding. They removed void traces and replaced it with essentially a one and done currency, which will be worthless to everyone once they have those 4 weapons. Maybe making those weapons tradable will create a small plat niche but the drop tables are worthless otherwise. Personally I'd say the 4 day shop rotations are too slow as well. 

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

2. I do agree that the community needs to get over their "content drought" drama, but until they do DE is stuck between that mess and the plethora of fixes pending.  Doing both is going to slow them down.  Doing one or the other is going to get backlash, too.  It's a no-win for them.  I'm not trying to "white knight", but I truly believe much of this community lacks proper perspective on what it is to be a game developer, and how the "customer" is NOT "always right". 

Blame the whole community, great idea. Ever think that maybe the people shelling out so they have everything ASAP probably tend to throw a fair chunk of money at DE? Add in the  vocal minority that's everywhere and you'll always have people complaining about something.  Customers are the people that pay your wages and this makes them by definition "always right". Now of course there are bad customers and businesses should act in their own interests rather than trying to please everyone.

 

So two questions to understand the context of your comments.

1. How many liches/sisters have you completed?

2. What do you think of this?

Veil/Lu-Yan (Volatile)
Rotation A
400 Endo Common (42.86%)
Vidar Engines Mk Iii Uncommon (21.43%)
Vidar Reactor Mk Iii Uncommon (21.43%)
Axi O5 Relic Rare (4.29%)
Axi A13 Relic Rare (4.29%)
Axi N7 Relic Rare (5.71%)
Rotation B
400 Endo Common (34.29%)
Vidar Shield Array Mk Iii Uncommon (17.14%)
Zetki Engines Mk Iii Uncommon (17.14%)
Vidar Plating Mk Iii Uncommon (17.14%)
Axi T7 Relic Rare (5.71%)
Axi G6 Relic Rare (5.71%)
3X Riven Sliver Rare (2.86%)
Rotation C
600 Endo Uncommon (31.25%)
Ambassador Blueprint Uncommon (16.67%)
Zetki Reactor Mk Iii Uncommon (12.50%)
Zetki Shield Array Mk Iii Uncommon (12.50%)
Zetki Plating Mk Iii Uncommon (12.50%)
Axi C6 Relic Rare (6.25%)
Axi I1 Relic Rare (6.25%)
3X Riven Sliver Rare (2.08%)
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1 hour ago, L3512 said:

This was introduced 14 days after liches came out, almost two years ago. With 6 new weapons since then it only serves to annoy people.

There are people that abort cassini runs for hours trying to get certain weapons, how is that good for anyone?

 

Sad news for you if think anyone is trading a low roll kraken for anything let alone new kuva weapons. Something about supply and demand I guess.

 

At this point I'd say holokeys are a failure in the context of DE saying they were looking at making void storms more rewarding. They removed void traces and replaced it with essentially a one and done currency, which will be worthless to everyone once they have those 4 weapons. Maybe making those weapons tradable will create a small plat niche but the drop tables are worthless otherwise. Personally I'd say the 4 day shop rotations are too slow as well. 

 

Blame the whole community, great idea. Ever think that maybe the people shelling out so they have everything ASAP probably tend to throw a fair chunk of money at DE? Add in the  vocal minority that's everywhere and you'll always have people complaining about something.  Customers are the people that pay your wages and this makes them by definition "always right". Now of course there are bad customers and businesses should act in their own interests rather than trying to please everyone.

 

So two questions to understand the context of your comments.

1. How many liches/sisters have you completed?

2. What do you think of this?

-snip-

I'm aware.  I've played this game much more than you have. I've been here awhile.  That a lootpool grows is not, in and of itself, "wrong" or "broken".  It's only a problem if your goal is "get all the things right now".  That is clearly not what the devs intend for THEIR game.

The devs made it possible to spawn a lich on a PLETHORA of nodes.  That y'all keep choosing "the easiest" or "the fastest" is YOUR problem. The devs didn't say "Welp, you HAVE to use Cassini" or "Welp, you NEED to do things in the most uninteresting, uninspired way possible".  That's YOU choosing to do so... so you can stop blaming them for your choices.

I never actually said anyone should trade any low roll anything, for one, so stop putting words in my mouth and creating false arguments that don't exist.  On that note, though, I very much WOULD trade for a low roll Kuva weapon if I had no luck in getting it to drop and I needed it to complete mastery.  The elemental damage is MORE than enough to make it strong, not to mention the 40 Mastery Ranks on it to fit just about anything on it.  I can also valence fuse it to power it up over time, so I can get it now, master it, and then power it up when I get lucky in the future. 

Again, the RUSH to get it maxed, in a game that doesn't require it, is a challenge/quote YOU set, not the devs.

And no, the customer is NOT always right.  I've got 25 YEARS of experience through various positions/jobs in the Service industy... even running several of my own businesses.  The customer is always allowed input and feedback, but they do NOT RUN my company.  If every customer that had a lightbulb pop off in their brains told a business how to run itself, everything would be free, and every supermarket would be a madhouse.  

A business has their own goal, their own mission statement.  They put forth a service or product, and they make a promise.  It is the customers' choice to engage with said product/service, and to decide whether or not to continue using it.  If the customer chooses, they can endorse the product by paying for it, or they can reject the product by discontinuing their use.  If they have been wronged by it, that is to say, they have had an experience with said product that differentiates from the businesses' guarantees and promises, then they may file complaints or request refunds etc...  but it is NOT the customers' place to redefine a business or product.

That is not to say the customer is not essential to running a business... of course they are!  But that does not make their opinions into facts, and it does not give them OWNERSHIP of someone else's business property.   

DE owns Warframe and they CHOOSE to SHARE it with us, at ZERO charge, no less.  That doesn't make it, or them, perfect, but it IS theirs to do with what they wish.  You don't own them, and you don't own Warframe.  


1. What's the point of the question?  Given the RNG, and IRL factors, I fail to see how the number of times I've engaged with one specific niche system within a huge game full of other systems has anything to do with the validity of the statements I've made regarding business practices or the definitions of pity systems and their place in games such as Warframe.  Don't be building strawmen.

2. I think it's fine.  I regularly play RJ.  Loved it since it launched.  Excited for where it's headed.  I've never had an issue with the droprates.  Again, how is this of relevance?

Literally nothing you've replied with has ANYTHING to do with the points I've made.  In fact, it completely misses everything I pointed out... specifically "T R A D E" exists, and it allows for FREE EXCHANGE OF PREMIUM CURRENCY.  That's not a THING in most any other MMO, let alone one with Lootboxes and RNG.  Pity does not apply here.

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28 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I'm aware.  I've played this game much more than you have. I've been here awhile.  That a lootpool grows is not, in and of itself, "wrong" or "broken".  It's only a problem if your goal is "get all the things right now".  That is clearly not what the devs intend for THEIR game. Not sure if you've noticed in all your playtime but DE generally slowly revises old content so how can you say they won't change it or what their intentions are?

The devs made it possible to spawn a lich on a PLETHORA of nodes.  That y'all keep choosing "the easiest" or "the fastest" is YOUR problem. The devs didn't say "Welp, you HAVE to use Cassini" or "Welp, you NEED to do things in the most uninteresting, uninspired way possible".  That's YOU choosing to do so... so you can stop blaming them for your choices. Considering I never said this was me personally you seem to be ------------------------------------⬇️

I never actually said anyone should trade any low roll anything, for one, so stop putting words in my mouth and creating false arguments that don't exist

 

37 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

And no, the customer is NOT always right.  I've got 25 YEARS of experience through various positions/jobs in the Service industy... even running several of my own businesses.  The customer is always allowed input and feedback, but they do NOT RUN my company.  If every customer that had a lightbulb pop off in their brains told a business how to run itself, everything would be free, and every supermarket would be a madhouse.  

A business has their own goal, their own mission statement.  They put forth a service or product, and they make a promise.  It is the customers' choice to engage with said product/service, and to decide whether or not to continue using it.  If the customer chooses, they can endorse the product by paying for it, or they can reject the product by discontinuing their use.  If they have been wronged by it, that is to say, they have had an experience with said product that differentiates from the businesses' guarantees and promises, then they may file complaints or request refunds etc...  but it is NOT the customers' place to redefine a business or product.

That is not to say the customer is not essential to running a business... of course they are!  But that does not make their opinions into facts, and it does not give them OWNERSHIP of someone else's business property.   HMMM massive tangent. If the opposite of right is wrong, how can someone be wrong for purchasing your goods or services? Or is your philosophizing like your reading comprehension? 

DE owns Warframe and they CHOOSE to SHARE it with us, at ZERO charge, no less.  That doesn't make it, or them, perfect, but it IS theirs to do with what they wish.  You don't own them, and you don't own Warframe.  ? Clingy whiteknighting here lol, Insert "leave Brittany alone.gif"?

Seriously though, why would I own them?

 

38 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

1. What's the point of the question?  Given the RNG, and IRL factors, I fail to see how the number of times I've engaged with one specific niche system within a huge game full of other systems has anything to do with the validity of the statements I've made regarding business practices or the definitions of pity systems and their place in games such as Warframe.  Don't be building strawmen. Ah the strawman, this forum does seem to love throwing that out. I only ask because I thought you hadn't gotten around to doing any yet?

2. I think it's fine.  I regularly play RJ.  Loved it since it launched.  Excited for where it's headed.  I've never had an issue with the droprates.  Again, how is this of relevance?

Honestly? just curious, I personally think It's a complete waste of time being basically 85% endo for rotation A and B and 70% for C.

Literally nothing you've replied with has ANYTHING to do with the points I've made.  In fact, it completely misses everything I pointed out... specifically "T R A D E" exists, and it allows for FREE EXCHANGE OF PREMIUM CURRENCY.  That's not a THING in most any other MMO, let alone one with Lootboxes and RNG.  Pity does not apply here.

Well your points were addressed directly, completely misses trade exists? That's sort of obvious though.

 

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On 2021-08-01 at 9:20 PM, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Again, though... the game is NOT "pure RNG".  Certain isolated systems are, sure, but not the entirety of the game.

ESPECIALLY not "Prime Drops".  You ALWAYS get SOMETHING when you crack a relic.  Not always what YOU want, but if you're smart, you TRADE it to OTHERS who DO want it, and in exchange, get what YOU want.

Basically, after so many relic runs, you either have what you want, or you have wares to sell to get it.  That isn't "pure RNG", it just requires a bit of effort and thought.  We don't need a "pity" system.

Being able to trade unwanted things in for things you want doesn't change the fact that majority of the game is based on pure RNG. There are some guaranteed rewards or stuff you can get with ducats, but nearly everything else relies on pure chance.

On 2021-08-01 at 9:20 PM, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

And you not enjoying the grind/gameplay isn't the same as it being flawed.  Fun is subjective.  You might not enjoy what the rest of players do, and vice versa.  If ya don't enjoy it, don't do it.  It's a free game and entirely optional to play.

I didn't use the word flawed. You made that up.

As for the gameplay, I didn't say I don't enjoy the game entirely. But yeah, majority of it the repetitive loop I don't enjoy and I play around a couple of hours per week as a result, when there is content to play.

 

 

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On 2021-07-31 at 7:48 PM, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Of course you picked the most sought after and rare items in the game. No surprise there.

have you done the math on legendary cores ? its a joke it needs a pity timer ...

from the wiki a core has 0.18 drop chance and being only able to run this once per day you can expect to see a legendary core in 3.4 years with it being Nearly guaranteed in 6.9 years

 

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