Trivialization Of Warframes.

[Cwierz]

Let's be blunt here. 

Nova.

Rhino.

 

These two frames trivialize EVERY other frame (except frost and Vauban ofc). There is literally no point to having a squad that consists of ANY other frames unless its defense or you want to stealth. Let me explain here

 

Rhino- With rhino charge, vanguard, and rush he is now the fastest frame. His Two power and his bulk makes him the bulkiest frame in the game. His Three Power makes him arguably one of the best team support frames, with this ability seconded only too Chaos and Sonar in its category. His 4 ability is basically Banshees Sound quake, with a larger radius and freedom of movement. Rhino is a very good frame, however he NEEDS to be toned down to make room for other frames. At the present moment he is literally just to good compared to every other frame except uh....

 

 

Nova-

#4-Key-Prime

 

I am just going to point out that I got pseudo-kicked from a lobby for NOT running a Rhino or Nova in Paulas/Pluto (I was going to use a NYX)

 

This isn't going to be magically "fixed" with armor 2.0 either.

Stop using armor 2.0 as an excuse.

There is still going to be a gap beetween base stats and you know it, the soma and vectis are still going to be leagues better than other weapons. 

 

If two pieces of content trivialze every other frame in the game (with a couple of exceptions) then that isn't right. I don't care how much you scream "STOP NERFING THINGS!!1!one!eleven!" It needs to happen. It is SO much easier to nerf to things than to bring every other piece of content up to par with them, not to mention helping with powercreep.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Downvote for hyperbole and histrionics.

[ArcSynder]

Trinity is still situationally useful imo. Same with loki during some very high level content. 

 

Otherwise, overall yes. Utility>damage, nova only gets a pass since she can chain damage almost everything. 

[BuriedShadows]

but its a PvE game.. why does this matter?

[Aditsan]

I don't know, I think they could balance it out without nerfing but I haven't experienced this problem yet, I do get dropped a lot but I'm not sure if that's intentional or unintentional, but that's besides the point anyway. The point is if they balance it out then idc either way on how they do it.

[Aditsan]

but its a PvE game.. why does this matter?

 

Well personally the way I see it is that if the other frames are worthless than everyone will be ignoring them and using one frame. That sounds like a huge problem, maybe not necessarily for us but it can be for us but mainly for the devs who worked their butts off making content that a lot of people probably will end up ignoring.

[TheWestmark]

So, you dislike frames that don't have useless abilities? Rhino's abilities just apply to nearly all situations, that's why he's so "good".

 

Let's stop being pessimistic and nerfing things, let's start being optimistic and buff things. Also, your sidenote about being kicked for not being a Rhino/Nova, sorry about that, but you shouldn't ask for a good frame to become a crappy frame just to stick it to people.

 

In reality, if a squad was like that, you wouldn't want to be in that squad in the first place. On the other hand, Pluto is a very touchy subject as people want to go to very high levels during survivals and defenses, and without a Rhino and Nova, it makes it all the more difficult.

 

[TL;DR] No more nerfing. Buff the things that suck, don't make everything suck.

[Anarties]

but its a PvE game.. why does this matter?

With an attitude like yours the only difference between Frames would be how they look.

 

Every Warframe needs to feel different and be able to hold their own in their own regards.

[Jaguarwarrior190]

As a huge Rhino fan, I hope that he is not nerfed. Rhino is a fun frame to play and I don't think that messing him up is the answer. Make other frames more fun to play rather than destroying Rhino. Also, it really depends on how you are trying to play, nyx, who you mentioned, is good at crowed control, for example.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Jaguarwarrior190

[Taletreader]

I have Rhino... and still do prefere Mag or Ash over him, even if Mag isn't that strong (pull is kinda op right now, but doesn't compare to Rhino or Nova), I like her for her Shield Polarize, it does damage to 'shielded' enemies and recover 65% of my friends shield, and Ash because of his "high-survivability".

[Archfiendrai]

No. No nerfing. Buff the other frames instead. Nerfing is a terrible band-aid on a gaping wound.

 

And while you're at it, buff the enemies as well so that we cant just lolno everything.

[TheMalachai]

And I quote the Dude: "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

 

Here's the thing, I own a number of 'frames, including the two that you feel need to be burned at the stake. Is Rhino good? Damned right he is. Nova? I don't like glass cannons. She's fun, but that's it. Saryn is quite good. Vauban is great fun, aside from the fact that he's frail and slow. You know how to use him properly, and he's fantastic. I have more, but Excal is Excal, Prime or not, and I'm not a fan of Ash, mainly because it feels like they don't know what they want him to be.

 

As for the "kick," unless the host asked "you're not using that, are you," and you said "yes, yes I am," and then they left the session, it most likely was not because of your choice in 'frame. There are a thousand different reasons why they might have left. And if they did kick you when you said you were using Nyx, then that person was a jerk. That's life.

 

As for your justification of a nerf, specifically that it'd be easier, that's silly. It'll be harder to make every 'frame fun and useful, sure. But it'd also be WORTH IT. DE doesn't want to just throw some slop out and walk away. That'd be bad for everyone, and would be a financial disaster for them. You know what would be easier than fixing all the issues on our planet? Burning the damned sphere to bedrock. Yeah, that's an extreme comparison, and I'm not comparing a nerf with the obliteration of everything on our little world, but it follows the same logic. Anything worth having isn't going to come easy, and most things that come easy aren't worth it.

 

Take a deep breath, find a 'frame and weapon combo that fits your playstyle, and have fun. That's it.

[castem]

So, you dislike frames that don't have useless abilities? Rhino's abilities just apply to nearly all situations, that's why he's so "good".

 

Let's stop being pessimistic and nerfing things, let's start being optimistic and buff things. Also, your sidenote about being kicked for not being a Rhino/Nova, sorry about that, but you shouldn't ask for a good frame to become a crappy frame just to stick it to people.

 

In reality, if a squad was like that, you wouldn't want to be in that squad in the first place. On the other hand, Pluto is a very touchy subject as people want to go to very high levels during survivals and defenses, and without a Rhino and Nova, it makes it all the more difficult.

 

[TL;DR] No more nerfing. Buff the things that suck, don't make everything suck.

 

You deserve a medal.

[Althix]

ts in the end Rhino is good for only one thing. knockback with "stun" and damage buff.

 

damage buff is viable but banshee is just better because of sonar. not roar or mp can provide such a buff.

Mag's Shield Polarize scales with the enemy(more with corpus less with grineer), and this ability also provides knockback.

 

Not to go further about frames and abilities, i just wanna say that yes there are frames in the game that have zero value if we are judging them from a perspective of ED.

 

However assumption about Rhino and Nova is just wrong.

[Anarties]

ts in the end Rhino is good for only one thing. knockback with "stun" and damage buff.

 

damage buff is viable but banshee is just better because of sonar. not roar or mp can provide such a buff.

Mag's Shield Polarize scales with the enemy(more with corpus less with grineer), and this ability also provides knockback.

 

Not to go further about frames and abilities, i just wanna say that yes there are frames in the game that have zero value if we are judging them from a perspective of ED.

 

However assumption about Rhino and Nova is just wrong.

Sonar is better but not practical because most people stink at aiming.

[nintega]

but its a PvE game.. why does this matter?

 

Bro... No, don't do that, you have so much to live for.

 

It matters because there's no point to all this content if using anything besides Rhino and Nova. It leads to elitism, stagnation, and eventually, bad community.

 

I gotta agree with TheWestmark, though, buffing everything to an even level high in the sky is much preferable than nerfing everything into the ground. I do think that Nova and Rhino could use a little bit of balancing, though. Rhino shouldn't be able to put out as much damage at such range with just his abilities, speed and toughness seem like a better niche for him. And Nova, there's too much wrong with her being nothing but "Press 4 to win", it's silly.

[Althix]

Sonar is better but not practical because most people stink at aiming.

problems of some people have nothing to do with potential damage output of this debuff.

 

argument that some people can't shoot is not a argument.

[wtrmlnjuc]

Guys, everyone has their own playstyle with their own favourite frames. Why not just work with each other instead of nerfing everything to suit your wants?

[Althix]

Because ts is making wrong assumptions. Which can be only explained by lack of experience. Also it is unknown what mode he have in mind, i assume  this is ED. If we are talking about Survival situation is different. Because on survival Trinity can outperform both Frost and Vauban for example, simply because of blessing. If i can ignore damage and i have nothing to defend i have no need in Frost. Vauban can stay because of vortex i guess.

 

Just saying.

[Santiak]

While I agree that, relatively speaking, Rhino and Nova are many times more efficient, the subject of whether to nerf them or buff the other frames is up for discussion.

 

 

If all other frames are buffed, all enemies would, in my opinion, need to be buffed as well. There simply isn't that much of a challenge, even less so if all frames were at the same level as Rhino and Nova.

The reason that Rhino and Nova are so well-used, is more to do with the fact that when using them, the player gets the feeling that they are actually having an impact on the game and helping the team, more so than when using most other frames.

Following that argument, it's quite clear to me that what needs to happen, isn't that those two warframes should be nerfed to the level of the other frames, resulting in players feeling they aren't making a difference or having a tangible impact on the game, regardless of what frame they pick. But that the other frames should be buffed/slightly altered, so every player, regardless of their chosen frame, gets that impression of actually being of use.

To remedy that, all enemies would, of course, also need to be buffed, or the game would simply become more of a faceroll than it already is.

 

I'm well aware that adjusting 13 frames plus enemies compared to just 2 frames is quite a bit more work to accomplish, but I believe it would be worth it.

It's many times more fun to play a game where you can't decide what path to pick because everything seems so good, than it is to play a game where you're faced with the same dilemma, but because everything is equally bad.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Santiak

[LukeAura]

Loki/Nova with Rush is still faster than Rhino, Volt with Speed is too, and for the same energy cost and will travel him much farther and in multi dimensions if needed.
Rhino isn't the fastest frame with Vanguard, he sits between 1.1 and 1.15 speed tiers. Which is fast, but not even Ash fast. Not sure why people keep saying he is.

 

[HolySoul77]

"find a frame that suits your playstyle" , "dont nerf him, just buff the others" ?? WTH guys?!?!

Warframe at high lvls is a pretty easy and grindy game, if ALL warframes were OP as nova and rhino, seriously, whats the point of playing anyways??? it would be like a interactive rambo movie, where you aim at the enemies that you wish to obliterate, and go to extraction, just that! i completely agree that rhino and nova are way OP and also (idk about official numbers) they could be the most common warframes in the game...theres no online match that you cant find a rhino or a nova....nova is stronger but also a little harder to play than rhino and can be fixed by setting a max number of chains, simple as that...but rhino is just warframe on a super easy mode...

and for ppl saying that other warframes have crowd control and other useful things....WHY WOULD YOU NEED CROWD CONTROL WHEN YOU CAN KILL(and freeze) ALL THE ENEMIES????

 

recently i found a rhino that taught me something...at the dillema event he just ran like crazy, clearing all the rooms with stomps and i just realized that you can stomp as many times you want if you kill everyone at each stomp...the "cooldown" only applies if someone survives the dmg...(yes i didnt know that..i tought there was some kind of cooldown to make things less OP)

and lets not talk about iron skin....or we might get flamed to death here...

and before someone asks, i know that rhino is OP because i made one just to see how easy it was...and was pretty easy..not saying that he should go away or be nerfed to become a vegetable, hes a good ofensive frame that needs balance, so the other players can actually do something during the game and not just following him to the extraction point.

[Nazaca]

Let's be blunt here.

 

If you insist ...

 

Most of the frames are designed for a game that Warframe never was and never will be.  There is a gap between the Warframe in DE's heads and the Warframe we play.  For so long as that discrepancy exists, there shall always be suboptimal frames, weapons, mods, etc in the game.

 

Adjusting the generally useful frames to be more situational merely makes it so that it doesn't matter what frame you are using because the frame itself brings nothing of worth to the table.  Every ability on every frame should be either generally useful or obscenely overpowered in its' narrow application.  The frame one chooses should have an effect; each should play very differently indeed in the hands of a skilled player.

 

So, no, the frames you call out don't need to be nerfed.  The other frames should be made useful instead.

[Yefrign]

while these two frames are very good at what they do. I still find that most frames are useful in any situations. 

[Thelonious]

Both these frames in their current state just annihilate the little depth this game had left.

 

1. You don't give high mobility and high damage to an already very tanky character. It's 101 balance. Vanguard should never have been implemented.

I don't see Frost players complaining about their speed. Maybe they finally understoood that it's the counterweight to their high survavibility.

 

2. You don't give ultimates high range and high damage. It's one or the other. Risk/reward ratio must be respected. Banshee's ult got nerfed for that. Be consistent. 

 

Oh and you don't give ults high damage, high range AND CC ON THE TOP. That's just.../facepalm

Unless you want one guy to single-handedly ruin the whole party teamwork by pressing one button over and over again.

Yes, you don't need support or crowd control when ONE ability does it all at the same time. And kills the enemy anyway.

Way to promote co-op DE, nicely done.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Thelonious