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The New Player Experience: Should DE add a mentor system?


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So after seeing this video I have been thinking DE should add a mentor system to the game.

https://youtu.be/iutAnzTT9W0

I think it would be a good Way to help with some of the aimlessness new player feel once they complete the tutorial. Add incentives for Both mentor and student and You would make it much easier for new players to get a handle on some of the more complicated aspects of the game.

EDIT: Let me be clear I have been playing the game for a few years and have a decently high MR (29 but I am too lazy to level more stuff for mastery ATM) so this is more coming form a position of reasonable experience of the game. 

EDIT2: I notice a lot of posts seem to think I am saying that new players don't have any direction when what I really mean is that that the players are hit with so much right off the back after the tutorial that they have no idea what to do first and end up getting overwhelmed. I speak form experience as I have interacted with a lot of new players that had recently started playing that had no idea what they should be doing outside of clearing mission nodes. Also this system would be an optional system like many other mentor systems in games are. IF you are still confused I recommend you watch the vid I linked of someone new playing the game and giving there reactions and first impression and you might get a better idea of where I am coming from.

Edited by FrigidMesa
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Just now, FrigidMesa said:

So after seeing this video I have been thinking DE should add a mentor system to the game.

https://youtu.be/iutAnzTT9W0

I think it would be a good Way to help with some of the aimlessness new player feel once they complete the tutorial. Add incentives for Both mentor and student and You would make it much easier for new players to get a handle on some of the more complicated aspects of the game.

Im L1 and im aimless whats you problem with it?
You think why i play warframe in the first place?

We have Q&A chat we have recruit chat if someone needs help only his determination prevents him or her from getting it
So i dont see any reason for NEED of mentor system while i wont say it could be useful or fun for some ppl

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7 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

Im L1 and im aimless whats you problem with it?
 

New player's need direction and the tutorial does not leave you with any. Having played with a bunch of people who just started recently I can say for certain many new players would benefit from someone telling them were to go and what to do instead of fumbling around aimlessly getting bored of the game and leaving it.

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We already had a mentor system which was called Guide of the Lotus.
It fell apart because people were busy flexing in relays than to actually go out into missions with people.

Well that and because of the usual trouble that happens when nepotism and free internet power is involved.

I'm not opposed to the idea of a mentor system in general, but DE just cannot manage it so it's going to devolve into power hungry ego centric drama fests. Honestly your best bet is going into Region chat, and try to sort through the memes.

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5 minutes ago, Sazero said:

We already had a mentor system which was called Guide of the Lotus.
It fell apart because people were busy flexing in relays than to actually go out into missions with people.

Oh yeah I remember that. But I was more thinking along the lines of a spectating mentor program. where the mentor would spectate with VC and rewards would be distributed when the student reached certain milestones. So it would be more of a one on one sort of thing.

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1 hour ago, ZeroX4 said:

So i dont see any reason for NEED of mentor system while i wont say it could be useful or fun for some ppl

Agreed. There is always help if you activly look for it.

58 minutes ago, FrigidMesa said:

New player's need direction and the tutorial does not leave you with any.

Yes 100%% . While there ARE modding tutorials and so on and so forth, i suggest making them more prominent -> as kind of a lotus guided UI/basics explanation. 

 

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I see zero reason for it. I really dont see what is difficult to grasp early on in WF. I guess if you are completely new to gaming and have no clue where to start out, but if you have the slightest experience, especially with arpgs, mmorpg, looters etc. most things should be natural at start. 

Tip #1 for these types of games, always start by looking through the control settings (customize as needed, which is always for me) followed by the different menus. Now you know the basics of how the game is set up and where to find quests, missions, maps, crafting, equipment and so on. I tend to turn off tutorials in games since I wont remember what they tell me anyways. I rather explore and learn it myself in a session, then that is done.

 

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there's a few problems with mentoring programs like the old Guide of the Lotus program, and a lot of it is down to the way humans behave:

- people usually won't help newbies long term unless there's something in it for them, like how GOTL had cosmetics. and no, the "satisfaction of teaching a newbie" is not a valid reward to some people, and I may or may not feel that way myself. I'm jaded mainly because whenever I've helped people in the past, they never stick around long enough to use the knowledge so my time spent helping them feels wasted. what I'm saying is that humans can be selfish scumbags and a system relying on kindness alone is flawed.

- the program has to be accessible, otherwise what's the point. hardly anyone even knew what GOTL was when it was at it's most active. I can count on one hand the number of times I ever even saw a Guide in the relays.

- not everybody is "qualified" (knows enough about the game) to really be a good mentor. there's stuff even L1, 6+ year players like me forget or don't know about. to that end, you also don't want mentors spreading misinformation or toxic opinions (e.g. Saryn is the best frame and if you disagree you're wrong, git gud etc.), because that breeds more toxicity. 

- some people don't want the help and would rather learn things themselves, or maybe can't retain information well unless they learn it themselves. a mentor program is wasted on these people in the end. 

long story short, I think there's not much point for a mentor program, considering there's already a nice informal network of helpful players that can appear from time to time, just by being asked, and DE should instead be making tutorials more frequent and clearer, which would reduce the need for mentors anyway. 

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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idunno, maybe maybe not it would actually be helpful. past the very basics most Players can't find their way out of a Paper Bag, and at some point that can't only be the fault of the game. the Player has to take some level of responsibility for not trying things and figuring things out by experiment.

for those that want to find information they can stumble across a lot of Game Mechanics just by looking around on the Wiki. yes yes, it's outside of the game.
but, unlike what most Players would have for ""advice"", atleast it's not biased and would actually teach the Player how to be good. as most Players currently completely rely on Viral Status and Slash Status to Kill Enemies, even before they leave the Solar Map. >.>

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Q&A is there for someone confused other than that maybe give a little update to the in-game guides on the codex.

Mentor system can either make the person reliant on the mentor or the mentor ignores the student and just waits for prizes to come

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I see many games applying the mentor system like Honkai Impact 3,Ninja must die and so on.This kind of system has a fatal disadvantagement that the mentor and his/her apprentice may not have their shared time to be online,and then missions depended on their joint efforts cannot be finfshed always.Especially this game that have players all over the world.For example,imagine a Chinese mentor accepting a US apprentice,then one may be online while the other guy is must asleep.

Usually the requirement to the mentor is too high that some mentors themselves may have no enough desire to play the game again,especially when they remember:"Damn I have an apprentice waiting for me to teach." They are driven by the task ,not the love to the game and the desire and the sense of mission that they should bring up their apprentices. So it is not always good for newers that need a mentor.

Plus not all newers are going to stick in this game until MR L1.Some,even most of them are going to experience the game for several seconds and then AFK,when the mentors can only see their apprentices being absent for years and lots of tasks that can never be completed forever.

Edited by Aquapisces
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2 hours ago, Sazero said:

Honestly your best bet is going into Region chat

Never it's the worst place in the game... just use google. Region chat should be disabled 100% of the time if you want a positive game experience.

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Mentor system in every game I've played has been something people join for rewards instead of actually wanting to help / be helped.. which completely defeats the purpose of said system.

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I don’t think a mentor system is entirely necessary but what I will say though is that DE needs to do is make better tutorials for all the systems in the game, especially for newer players who inevitably get confused since there’s a lot of complex systems thrown their way. When you have to look at the Wiki more than just playing the game, all that tells me is your game is really bad at explaining things, which is not a good thing since that’s just a hassle to go back and forth which can be incredibly annoying and frustrating all at the same time.

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Thanks for sharing a fun and honest video!  Having started less than a year ago, it definitely brought back a ton of memories -- both the incredible excitement from that opening level, and that total sense of loss and information overload when we first get on the orbiter.  I ended up reading (and reading and reading) stuff online until I finally got the gist of how to proceed, but I really do not know if other new players will have the same amount of patience, especially with so many other games competing for their time.

Honestly, I do not know if a mentor system would be the best answer.  Personally, I think a few more introductory quests, a few more cinematic segues, and even some tutorial videos that walk you through each system (especially the modding system) would be of the most help to new players.  This is a game -- no one likes to read a wall of text with a bunch of cryptic invented words that you just will not understand yet.  Show us, don't tell us.

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If someone wants to teach another player, it should come from one's desire to teach, not because there's a reward behind it like my friend 844448. He's somewhat addicted playing as support role and teaching anyone just because he wants it, not because there's a reward for teaching them

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9 out of 10 veterans who 'help' new players end up playing the game for them.

 

What new players really need is a better tutorial for modding and the arsenal that is not hidden but mandatory.

Also after finishing the Vors Prize quest you get a message that tells you to go out and be a hero for the system needs you.

Instead this message should explain how doing tasks gives you access to solar rails, which let you unlock new planets and new story quests.

 

Simple changes like this dont require much dev time, are easy to implement and dont pose a risk for DE.

Edited by Terroriced
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1 hour ago, Terroriced said:

9 out of 10 veterans who 'help' new players end up playing the game for them.

 

What new players really need is a better tutorial for modding and the arsenal that is not hidden but mandatory.

Also after finishing the Vors Prize quest you get a message that tells you to go out and be a hero for the system needs you.

Instead this message should explain how doing tasks gives you access to solar rails, which let you unlock new planets and new story quests.

 

Simple changes like this dont require much dev time, are easy to implement and dont pose a risk for DE.

Actually, the message after Vors Prize tells you exactly what to do.

Should I type it out, or maybe you can just re read it? 

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Actually, the message after Vors Prize tells you exactly what to do.

Should I type it out, or maybe you can just re read it? 

"Now that you have freed yourself from Vor and his Ascaris, you have a new mission, one of your own making. Know that I am only your guide; you are your own warrior, you decide what battles to fight. Allow me to suggest a course of action:

Seek out like-minded fighters. Tenno are more effective in groups.

Execute missions and alerts on the Starchart to open new paths of exploration.

Use the credits you earned in battle to buy blueprints in the Market, then hunt down resources and craft those items in your Foundry.

Customize your weapons and Warframes using the mod bench. Different enemies are vulnerable to different combinations of mods; experiment to discover the most effective loadouts.

Finally, stay alert. The Grineer and Corpus are tireless, and you are the only thing standing between them and total domination of the Origin System.

I am counting on you, Tenno."

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I think there is enough info on the internet for new players at this point, wich will render the system of "mentors" useless, more so if you are asking for the literal Guides of the Lotus again 8even with the rewards for MR milestones).

Also, feeding new players with info it's what overwhelms them on first place, it's like feeding a baby with a giant spoon and then wondering why the baby can't eat the whole thing.

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

"Now that you have freed yourself from Vor and his Ascaris, you have a new mission, one of your own making. Know that I am only your guide; you are your own warrior, you decide what battles to fight. Allow me to suggest a course of action:

Seek out like-minded fighters. Tenno are more effective in groups.

Execute missions and alerts on the Starchart to open new paths of exploration.

Use the credits you earned in battle to buy blueprints in the Market, then hunt down resources and craft those items in your Foundry.

Customize your weapons and Warframes using the mod bench. Different enemies are vulnerable to different combinations of mods; experiment to discover the most effective loadouts.

Finally, stay alert. The Grineer and Corpus are tireless, and you are the only thing standing between them and total domination of the Origin System.

I am counting on you, Tenno."

Which doesn't actually explain how the various systems work, especially the modding system. But we gotta keep up the narrative here that Warframe is fine as is, meaning they don't need to do anything more to improve the game. Or that's what Madurai-Prime and vanaukas would have you believe.

As for a mentor system, it's not what Warframe needs. The game needs to explain its systems. Period. And despite what vanaukas says, clear information is not what overwhelms players. It's being presented with everything the game offers, without guidance and information about what to do when. What would help is more structure and more information. So they should provide information about how systems work, but they need to structure the players' engagement with these systems instead of just leaving them to figure it all out themselves whenever they want. Most good games will structure that experience so that the player can learn the game.

Edited by OniDax
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

Actually, the message after Vors Prize tells you exactly what to do.

Should I type it out, or maybe you can just re read it? 

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)C11H22O11:

"Now that you have freed yourself from Vor and his Ascaris, you have a new mission, one of your own making. Know that I am only your guide; you are your own warrior, you decide what battles to fight. Allow me to suggest a course of action:

Seek out like-minded fighters. Tenno are more effective in groups.

Execute missions and alerts on the Starchart to open new paths of exploration.

Use the credits you earned in battle to buy blueprints in the Market, then hunt down resources and craft those items in your Foundry.

Customize your weapons and Warframes using the mod bench. Different enemies are vulnerable to different combinations of mods; experiment to discover the most effective loadouts.

Finally, stay alert. The Grineer and Corpus are tireless, and you are the only thing standing between them and total domination of the Origin System.

I am counting on you, Tenno."

Thank you.

Of course a veteran does understand that 'execute missions and alerts on the Starchart to open new paths of exploration' is the important part here.

But how could a new player know, when previously he got introduced to plenty of new systems full of buttons and symbols and stats and options and weird names?

And those never mattered, when doing the easiest kind of task was always enough for the tutorial. Like putting a mod on the board.

 

Just imagine if opening the starchart for the first time after reading this message would immediately open the Venus Junction UI.

I think a small change like this would make a big difference.

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DE should never bring back any kind of mentor program.

They let abusive people who let a little bit of internet power get to their heads run unchecked for way too long, and then when content creators made it clear with evidence how bad the problem was, DE shut down the entire program instead of punishing a few bad apples, because they didn't want to punish their GOTL buddies. 

Even though the evidence of some of their behavior was really, really clear. But DE pulled the "you didn't fire me, I QUIT!" and took this weird, passive aggressive tone, where they accused the community of a "witch hunt" and that we were participating in "mob-justice" and that we "didn't win" or what have you... they were already going to shut it down, you see, and it had nothing to do with the community presenting PROOF of abusive behavior. Apparently proof of abusive behavior is a "witch hunt" by an "mob". 

So yeah, they don't need to do a mentor program again. They have proven they are incapable of making one without getting too close to their volunteers, and being emotionally unable to punish them or admit their wrongdoing when confronted with direct evidence. 

Imagine if someone proved to a city council that a few police officers were incredibly corrupt, and instead of firing the officers and punishing them, the city council got angry at the town for being up in arms about it, shut down the entire police force and then said "but you didn't get us to act, we planned to layoff all our police officers and stop having police anyways!". 

It's asinine. 

 

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