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The problem with the any defend missions for most of new players


ChukunoHoshi

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After I left the warframe so long and play other games, I can see the problem clearly about the game and any defend missions, 90% of enemies in the map will focus fire on the objective that you have to defend...It's not the problem at all for verterans like us but for the new players....

How they can pass the most of the defend missions when they don't get any defend warframe like frost, limbo,..etc or good weapon like us(solo problem).

And a chance to find match with other people for beginner mission is so low and they have no chioce to solo the mission. I noticed this problem when my friends who are new player really struggle to pass any defend mission. while in other mission or survival mission they did fine. Without any help from veteran or other squad mate...They will left the game before they can reach to the point that they can really solo.

"just git gud you idoit" I heard this quote a lot from the veteran players, yeah...some of them are not the gamer like most of you guys. They just want to play game....

So I want this to get change....maybe like enemy will focus fire on you more than the objective, It's make more sense for the situation because enemy have to stop you from hacking and stop you from killing them. Not like the brainless mobs who only shoot at the objective while letting tenno kill them easily. and this is only problem about defend missions quest. Imagine the interception mission that they have to solo....

 

Normally I'm not making any feedback or post like this but I have to talk because If this still happend that's mean no new players will come.

(And I made another topic about the AOE firearm, maybe you guys should go to see it)

Sorry for my bad english and the concern about the stage of the game.

 

 

 

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The tutorial need to be expanded. It just teaches how to fight, everything else is on the wiki or in not very noticeable buttons. Equip a mod, mod capacity, what polarity does, what is MR, thats for starters. Then each mission type on first play-through it should tell in detail what to do.

Defence objectives can be overcome easily by starter frames if player is using powers. The problem is that energy at the beginning is scarce resource - my suggestion would be buffing base Rage mod and put a Flawed Rage so new players can use powers as late game players can. Other suggestion could be making Dethcube's Energy Generator an universal mod that comes with Taxon. 

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vor 26 Minuten schrieb ChukunoHoshi:

How they can pass the most of the defend missions when they don't get any defend warframe like frost, limbo,..etc or good weapon like us.

they do it the same way we did looking what is working for certain missions and what is not but all the headless chickens i see not playing to have a succsesfull mission but trusting that others will do that seems working well for some people

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44 minutes ago, Keiyadan said:

they do it the same way we did looking what is working for certain missions and what is not but all the headless chickens i see not playing to have a succsesfull mission but trusting that others will do that seems working well for some people

New 'gamers' just want everything spoon fed.

 

  

50 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

The problem is that energy at the beginning is scarce resource - my suggestion would be buffing base Rage mod and put a Flawed Rage

Or a flawed Energy siphon that gives no mod capacity, but have nice energy regen, like 10/sec.

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52 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

The tutorial need to be expanded. It just teaches how to fight, everything else is on the wiki or in not very noticeable buttons. Equip a mod, mod capacity, what polarity does, what is MR, thats for starters. Then each mission type on first play-through it should tell in detail what to do.

It would be a good thing but...here's the problem: People already hated the almost non-existent tutorial WF had before, people now have the new tutorial even more because it's too long and it's too much to take in. (i saw some people arguing about thing in the forum a few months ago, plus i saw the same argument in a Telegram group) 

Now...if just a simple and well explained tutorial about the bare bones of the gameplay of the game it's "too much" and "too long", how can DE make a tutorial that explains mods, capacity, equipment, warframes, weapons, abilities, hacking, stealth, mercy kills, polarities, MR, what to do, how to do it, when to do it etc etc without making a tutorial that is 2 hours long? 

because that would be a MASSIVE turn off from the community and new players.

 

people usually skip tutorials and then cry about the game not explaining anything. 

IMHO...DE did what they should've done. they revamped the tutorial, they made it prettier, more engaging, more fun and explained slightly better how the basic stuff work. From that point it's all about the player. 

 

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A new player would be going though basic star chart, and none of the defense missions at base star chart difficulty requires a cc/defense Warframe.

Low level defense maps have few enemies, that deal little amounts of damage, have low hp, and sometimes spend more time hiding than shooting.

MK-1 Braton, even without mods and only body shots, even part way through the star chart [which by then it would be replaced and person has mods...], kills enemies quickly. The melee base damage increase from previously also lets melee weapons function without mods early on.

The increase in damage over the years already made the game easier.

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People should not be lazy and get good. If you play a game why are you lazy to learn it? Not like Warframe would be a hard game, really. I played my first 1,5 years with only Excalibur (I liked Excal :)) and cleared the entry star chart. When I reached Uranos I hit the wall as I think everyone did, but after I learned proper modding it was easy.

We have a recruit chat and a new chat called Q&A. Don't say beginners can't ask others for help. It's not like LOL where if you are bad or try to ask something they send you back to your mother and f her multiple times a day. Warframe has the best community ever without question, they will help you for sure.

From improvement point: A better Codex could help on those who don't understand the game mechanic. I would love if we had an "Inventory spot" on the ship, not just in the ESC menu, and with better sorting (maybe something like the foundry).

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27 minutes ago, Chollynn said:

People should not be lazy and get good. If you play a game why are you lazy to learn it? Not like Warframe would be a hard game, really. I played my first 1,5 years with only Excalibur (I liked Excal :)) and cleared the entry star chart. When I reached Uranos I hit the wall as I think everyone did, but after I learned proper modding it was easy.

We have a recruit chat and a new chat called Q&A. Don't say beginners can't ask others for help. It's not like LOL where if you are bad or try to ask something they send you back to your mother and f her multiple times a day. Warframe has the best community ever without question, they will help you for sure.

From improvement point: A better Codex could help on those who don't understand the game mechanic. I would love if we had an "Inventory spot" on the ship, not just in the ESC menu, and with better sorting (maybe something like the foundry).

I did my best to explain them about the basic thing they need to know but in the end they left and said other game is more enjoyable, one of my friend said he feel like he's useless when have a rare chance to match to other player and the curve between new player and verteran player is too high...there're 4 of them, only 1 of them still play and I heard from him that soon he will leave the game. I feel sad :(

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21 minutes ago, ChukunoHoshi said:

one of my friend said he feel like he's useless when have a rare chance to match to other player and the curve between new player and verteran player is too high...

i'm sorry but what does you friend want from a game? 

to log in and see the game throwing stuff at him to become istantly powerful? 

the game is already so easy you can play it without even having to think about what you're really doing... 

i'd say that it isn't that much of a loss if players with this mindset don't play warframe. 

You can get friends that actually want to PLAY THE GAME in a clan or just by talking to people in region chat.. 

Season 5 Whatever GIF by Paramount+

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🤔 I find I can jump in to a group with a melee slam, piss off the enemies firing at the defense target, get out of the middle because that's certain death, then bounce around and keep them from hitting it while they're busy shooting at me and I'm shooting back.

A contributing thing is noticing who's shooting at the target and hurting them so that they stop shooting the target and start shooting me. I don't do much in the way of survival mods so I have to juggle aggro.

edit: What kind of equipment do they have? Excalibur's Radial Blind is an excellent CC ability to keep in the back pocket until things get really hair; cast it and you can go to town on anyone who's blinded with finishers. The Heat Dagger also has a nifty guaranteed Heat proc when you slam, which can briefly distract any enemy who's caught in range

double edit: What level are they struggling with and how many waves are they wanting to go?

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Specters.  New solo player's best friend.

Right off the bat at any low level starter planets, you can farm 1-star Warframe specters from Rescue missions.  Those are always useful to have around and are tanky enemy distractions when you're struggling at something playing solo. Syndicate specters are also cheap to buy from the ones you are allied with. Unfriendly syndicate specters blueprints you can get when they invade you (RNG drop).

You can deploy one specter of each kind simultaneously, giving yourself a squad of AI bots to assist.  1 warframe specter, a Clem clone, a New Loka ancient infested, Perrin Sequence drone, Red Veil charger, etc etc  (do not bother with the Steel Meridian rollers). If you summon a specter type that is already out, it will just kill off and replace the original.

By default they all follow you around but by interacting with them you can tell them to stand still too to guard a point. 

 

EDIT: Do NOT deploy specters in Nightmare Missions. They will be hostile enemies and will attack you instead.

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I think the actual issue is new players starting coop from the get-go. They don't learn anything because other players do the work for them. My advice is to clear the star chart solo and only play coop occasionally when you're starting out. I honestly never used a defense type frame when I started playing for the longest time and all these missions are doable with any frame. Sure an endurance run is going to be hard, but just a few rounds of defense should be fine as long as you know what you're doing.

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Personally I think defense is fine for early game, most defense modules have enough hp and shields that even enemies wailing on it for a while won't destroy it till a new player can kill them. However the bigger problem I see, at least for me is interceptions. Even now I have trouble getting through steel path interception without help thanks to not being able to cover all points on whats usually a large map. Newer players would have much less tools than I do and even though the enemies are easier the maps are still just as big. 

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11 hours ago, ChukunoHoshi said:

After I left the warframe so long and play other games, I can see the problem clearly about the game and any defend missions, 90% of enemies in the map will focus fire on the objective that you have to defend...It's not the problem at all for verterans like us but for the new players....

How they can pass the most of the defend missions when they don't get any defend warframe like frost, limbo,..etc or good weapon like us(solo problem).

"Starchart" Defense missions are designed so that you only need to get to wave 5. Getting to wave 5 is far from insurmountable with beginner frames.

Running a dedicated "defense frame" is necessary in Sorties, in Arbitrations, in Steel Path, and in getting to wave 20. Those are the veteran challenges. Beginners only need to pass wave 5, to unlock the later content to get defense frames

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10 hours ago, MystMan said:

Specters.  New solo player's best friend.

Indeed.

When I started I worked my way through most of the start chart solo. Interceptions were the missions that I needed help with back then. Granted defection and disruption have been added to that pile that can be difficult solo for a newer player that's still nailing things down. Still, even 1 star specters will spawn at a level comparable to what you're fighting and can be a help or distraction for the enemy.

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